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Critical Analysis #2
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Stephanos
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0 posted 2007-07-23 06:02 PM


Rosebud is fallen
Citizen Cane nods
Exiled in Xanadu
The time of singing is past
The voice of the turtledove
Is not heard in our land
Yet broken hearts may dare
To hope and pine
But the lost soul and contrite
Spirit are not the same
Like Christ and Belial
One is made sacrifice
The other shame
For when the lonesome mould
Like a millstone is cast
And there are no more bonds
To keep or sever
Regret becomes forever
Undying fiery worms and such
Can dissipate and some
May find relief thereby
But a loss of love divine
Always makes true lovers cry
And perhaps no hell is worse
Than having two eyes
Forever dry


[This message has been edited by Stephanos (07-23-2007 06:33 PM).]

© Copyright 2007 Stephen Douglas Jones - All Rights Reserved
hush
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since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653
Ohio, USA
1 posted 2007-07-24 03:00 AM


'For when the lonesome mould
Like a millstone is cast
And there are no more bonds
To keep or sever
Regret becomes forever'

I really liked these lines, Stephen, as well as your title/beginning. My biggest issue is one of personal taste... I'm not big on capitalizing every line... and without any sort of punctuation or stanza breaks, i had a hard time telling where one thought began and another ended. But maybe you intended that?

Hope this helped.

Stephanos
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2 posted 2007-07-24 08:32 AM


Yeah, Hush, I've always had a hard time deciding whether or not to Cap every line and use punctuation.  This is not necessarily finalized, so I'll consider what you say.


Thanks for the comments,

Stephen.

cynicsRus
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3 posted 2007-07-24 08:57 PM


Capping the beginnings of lines in the old traditional way works better in poems with set metrical patterns which this does not possess. You have some good lines in this piece but it would read better set in a more free form pattern. There are too many short lines which chops your thoughts excessively, and as Hush has noted, makes for difficult reading, sans punctuation. But this has enough of a natural cadence to it that you should consider at least doubling the lengths of lines so that each can be read in about the space of a natural breath. There may be however a line or two that you really want to focus on, in which case leaving it short would help to draw attention to it.

Sid

Stephanos
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4 posted 2007-07-25 02:24 PM


Sid,

thanks.

Could you demonstrate what you mean by making the lines longer?  Feel free to rewrite my poem.  I am open to collaboration.

Oh, and about the caps, I agree.  They're a goner.

Stephen

cynicsRus
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5 posted 2007-07-25 08:40 PM


Stephen,
I simply meant to, more or less, combine the first two lines into one; the next two into your second line, etc. Though I didn't necessarily mean they should be of equal length. They just shouldn't all be so short. It wouldn't do any good for me to attempt to rewrite it, since you already have a better grasp of the imagery you are attempting to convey. You're the one who needs to work on crafting the order of words so that they speak in the best possible way. Take your time. Don't feel you need to finish it for this forum.

Sid

Stephanos
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6 posted 2007-07-25 09:48 PM


How does everyone else feel about short lines?  Just curious.


Stephen

Bronzeage
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since 2007-07-20
Posts 197

7 posted 2007-07-25 11:25 PM


Line length is a matter of style and taste. Short clipped lines often make a jagged read. When meter is not an issue, I try to never break an image into two lines and carefully use punctuation to guide the rhythm of the read.
Essorant
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since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
8 posted 2007-07-26 01:35 AM


Hi Stephanos,

I like this.  The only thing that didn't work for me were the references to Citizen Cane (should that be Citizen Kane?).  I thought it gave a modern and popculturish aspect to the poem, that just didn't seem to fit in place with the manner of the other references and the religious depth of the sentiment.  

I think it certainly deserves good punctuation.  You would never cut out punctuation from prose, why would you in poetry?   More structure and special attributes, such as consistent meter and rhyme, may bring it out much more poetically.  All line-lengths work better with better poetic structure.

Hope that helps a bit.  Good to see you in CA        


Stephanos
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9 posted 2007-07-26 08:45 AM


Ess, thanks.

Actually I meant to write "Citizen Cain", blending a modern story with an ancient one (now you probably catch the allusion in the word "nod").  It's a matter of opinion of course, but due to the depth of Wells' movie (and the subject matter) I thought it was appropriate.  Also I think it communicates the fact that the story of redemption is not ancient but modern as well.


And as to rhyme and meter, I usually write that way, and am trying to expand my ability to write free verse.  


Stephen.

Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
10 posted 2007-07-26 07:25 PM


Do you want anything changed?

The line length isn't the problem. The problem is that the first few lines aren't enjambed as opposed to the rest of the poem. It feels like a first draft in that you didn't get into your 'groove' until later.

"I touch the fire
and it freezes me"
--Buffy



Stephanos
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11 posted 2007-07-26 07:42 PM


Brad,

How could I keep the imagry of Citizen Cain / exile / and have better "enjambment"?  

I'm open to suggestions.

I agree that the poem seems to flow better as it proceeds.


Thanks everyone, BTW, for the input.

Stephen

Essorant
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Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
12 posted 2007-07-26 09:43 PM


Freeverse and enjambment are two vices I recommend avoiding as much as possible.


cynicsRus
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13 posted 2007-07-27 12:01 PM


Vices?!!

I'd call these quite appropriate Devices, in the proper hands. One needn't fear them.

Sid

Essorant
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Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
14 posted 2007-07-27 12:31 PM


One leaves poetry as not much more than prose with line breaks, and the other clutters it up with awkward jerks and pauses, splitting important grammatical groups, putting periods in the middle of lines, ending a line with a word like "and" et cetera.  Seldom seldom do I find these work, unless they are minimilized and used as carefully and discreetly as possible.


cynicsRus
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since 2003-06-06
Posts 591
So Cal So Cool!
15 posted 2007-07-27 02:08 AM


As I stated: "...in the proper hands."
Good free form takes lots of practice, as does good poetry.
And before altogether dismissing enjambment, I would be inclined to study the observation made in Bob's Byway: "Sidelight: This run-on device, contrasted with end-stopped, can be very effective in creating a sense of forward motion, fine-tuning the rhythm, and reinforcing the mood, as well as a variation to avoid monotony, but should not be used as a mere mannerism."

Sid

Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
16 posted 2007-07-27 11:20 PM


Essorant,
quote:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.



End stops and enjambment.



Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
17 posted 2007-07-27 11:29 PM


quote:

Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste
Brought death into the World, and all our woe,
With loss of Eden, till one greater Man
Restore us, and regain the blissful seat,
Sing, Heavenly Muse, that, on the secret top
Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire
That shepherd who first taught the chosen seed
In the beginning how the heavens and earth
Rose out of Chaos: or, if Sion hill
Delight thee more, and Siloa's brook that flowed
Fast by the oracle of God, I thence
Invoke thy aid to my adventurous song,
That with no middle flight intends to soar
Above th' Aonian mount, while it pursues
Things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme.


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
18 posted 2007-07-27 11:38 PM


quote:


1          Oh there is blessing in this gentle breeze
2          That blows from the green fields and from the clouds
3          And from the sky: it beats against my cheek,
4          And seems half-conscious of the joy it gives.
5          O welcome Messenger! O welcome Friend!
6          A captive greets thee, coming from a house
7          Of bondage, from yon City's walls set free,
8          A prison where he hath been long immured.
9          Now I am free, enfranchis'd and at large,
10        May fix my habitation where I will.
11        What dwelling shall receive me? In what Vale
12        Shall be my harbour? Underneath what grove
13        Shall I take up my home, and what sweet stream
14        Shall with its murmur lull me to my rest?
15        The earth is all before me: with a heart
16        Joyous, nor scar'd at its own liberty,
17        I look about, and should the guide I chuse
18        Be nothing better than a wandering cloud,
19        I cannot miss my way. I breathe again;
20        Trances of thought and mountings of the mind
21        Come fast upon me: it is shaken off,
22        As by miraculous gift 'tis shaken off,
23        That burthen of my own unnatural self,
24        The heavy weight of many a weary day
25        Not mine, and such as were not made for me.
26        Long months of peace (if such bold word accord
27        With any promises of human life),
28        Long months of ease and undisturb'd delight
29        Are mine in prospect; whither shall I turn
30        By road or pathway or through open field,
31        Or shall a twig or any floating thing
32        Upon the river, point me out my course?



Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
19 posted 2007-07-29 11:45 AM


I still think the virtue is using it minimally and discreetly. I find the flow, even in some of those examples above, to become weaker with enjambment, and more specifically when the enjambment is very noticeable.  Sometimes I think the enjambment may be done in less noticeable ways, which may help it read more smoothly, especially when meter and rhyme are helping too.



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