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Critical Analysis #2
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oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

0 posted 2007-06-09 09:44 PM


Jumping


There is a spirit, possibly mischievous,
Possibly benign, that causes boys to jump
From roofs.  A shed will do, with graduation
To garage.  I slid from mine, arms out, face
Forward, breaking both my wrists and crying.

There is a spirit, less refined, that causes
Boys to jump from windows.  First floor
Classrooms to a drunken leap three stories high,
into snow banks, cold white comforters
For graceless landings. It only hurt my pride.

There is a spirit, quite malign, that causes
Boys to leap from towers, arms outstretched,
No parachute, a moment’s worth of flying.
Will you be there?  Will you be there when
I land? If you can’t catch me, why am I
Jumping?

[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (06-09-2007 11:22 PM).]

© Copyright 2007 Jim Aitken - All Rights Reserved
poetninoit
Junior Member
since 2007-06-10
Posts 20

1 posted 2007-06-10 08:02 AM


Hey man,
I thought your poem was very beautifully written. And i see that you encourage constructve criticism so i will say more about your poem. Please don't take any offence, but i didn't understand where the poem was coming from. I understand where it ends up (leaping from high buildings) but the beginning is vague. I understand where some poets do this to leave a mystery to their work but i just feel the mystery didn't suit this poem. However, it is written nicely and is well thought out. i just think it needs a little more info. about what you were trying to get across. good work!

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
2 posted 2007-06-11 04:13 PM


Hi poetinoit.  Thank you for noticing and commenting on this poem.  

I don't think you need to worry about offending with honest criticism.  

As you get involved in this forum, you will find that some people need to be treated more gently than others, more often younger members.  If you come across a piece of heartfelt immaturity that YOU feel is beyond friendly help, best thought is probably not to respond.

I you come across a piece that intrigues you and shows some possibilities, whack away!

Best, Jim

JenniferMaxwell
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Member Elite
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423

3 posted 2007-06-13 07:07 PM


A very powerful piece of writing, Jim, that really got to me. Nothing in this that isn’t perfectly clear yet there are levels of meaning and several possible interpretations that allow  reader to take from it whatever he wishes (or needs).

In passing, just want to note that I’ve always hesitated to use a repeated phrase, such as your“There is a spirit”, and “There is a spirit, ... that causes” but seeing how perfectly it works in your poem, I’m going to give my hesitation a re-think.


oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
4 posted 2007-06-13 08:06 PM


Thank you, Jennifer.  All you can do is trust your instincts.  If repitition seems to work in a particular instance, go for it.

Vest regards, Jim

UseTheIllusion
Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223
In a state of limbo
5 posted 2007-06-16 10:27 PM


Jim, you might possibly be one of the finer poets here (and I do not mean to say that there are not some other excellent ones).  I can find no fault with this one, other than the kind of weird formating you used.  Than again, I may be used to the:

_____________,
_____________,
_____________,
_____________.  

format.  

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
6 posted 2007-06-16 11:48 PM


Hi Illusion, thank you.  The last two lines of this don't work well on rereading again.

I'm interested that you find the formatting weird.  I've always thought of my self as being a formalist, except when I'm being intentionally silly.  

Maybe I'm wackier than I thought.

Best, Jim

viking_metal
Senior Member
since 2007-02-02
Posts 1337
In a Jeep, Minnesota.
7 posted 2007-06-25 12:00 PM


Hoo dang.

That

Was flawless.


-paul

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
8 posted 2007-06-25 04:03 PM


Hi Paul, and thank you!  You're in danger of becoming a fan!

Hmmm, maybe I'll start a fan club.  Let's see, there's you and, uh, er, ummm...  OK, maybe I'm not ready for a fan club yet!

Very very best, Jim .)

Katydid
Junior Member
since 2007-07-24
Posts 19

9 posted 2007-07-28 10:04 PM


Hi! This is my favorite of yours so far that I have read the past few days. Very enjoyable, entertaining... I enjoyed the repetition, the evolution of the poem and the boy, your phrasing keeps the poem moving.... all in all a good poem.

I have to confess I was quite disappointed in the ending. Not the writing itself, but the answer. I always imagined this spirit that drives boys to jump had more to do with freedom, independence, adventure, testing limits of mortality... I never thought of one waiting to be caught, or that being the point. I guess I have more to learn about "boys."

~Katy

viking_metal
Senior Member
since 2007-02-02
Posts 1337
In a Jeep, Minnesota.
10 posted 2007-08-01 12:54 PM


I'll never be able to tell you enough times.

This is my favorite poem of yours. Ever.

Consider getting published, eh?

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
11 posted 2007-08-11 08:11 PM


I think the first two strophes are textbook perfect but I'm stuck at the end. The build up is so fantastic, how could we not be disappointed by the bait and switch at the end.


oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
12 posted 2007-09-17 08:07 PM


This contains a revision of the third verse, which didn't work before.


Jumping

There is a spirit, possibly mischievous,
Possibly benign, that causes boys to jump
From roofs.  A shed will do, with graduation
To garage.  I slid from mine, arms out, face
Forward, breaking both my wrists and crying.

There is a spirit, less refined, that causes
Boys to jump from windows.  First floor
Classrooms to a drunken leap three stories
High, into a snow bank,  cold white comforter
For graceless landing.  It only hurt my pride.

There is a spirit, quite malign, that causes
Boys to jump from towers, arms slowing
This harsh fall to love. No parachute, a moment’s
Worth of flight in desperation and desire.
And if the landing shatters heart and mind,
Boys climb higher.

[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (09-17-2007 11:48 PM).]

Yejun
Junior Member
since 2007-11-21
Posts 49

13 posted 2007-11-26 06:00 PM


This seems deserving of a bump.

Or is it a bounce?

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
14 posted 2007-11-26 06:31 PM


Thank you Yejun.  I appreciate the bump.  My goodness!  I do it too, here, in Open, and "Announcements" when I find things. I just never thought it would happen to me!

This is not faux humility.  It's amazement.

Trying-to-retrieve-fallen-jaw-from-ground, Jim


TomMark
Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133
LA,CA
15 posted 2007-11-26 06:47 PM


I love both endings.

But tell me, Jim, how do I enjoy this kind of poems? why can't I sense feelings in it? I read as something you stated out( very logic and rationale) with a very cool tune. Sir Brad's poems gave the same feeling. Why? And many people liked this one so there must be something that I don't know in reading a poem.

Tom

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
16 posted 2007-11-26 08:27 PM


Hi Tom -- You've got it right on again.  The poem is emotionally detatched.  It is a poem of the head, not the heart.  The heart is surely meant to be in there, but I have an enormous personal difficulty in writing emotionally, or facing my emotions.

I live an arid life, Tom, a dry life, because, in my circumstances, it is what works for me, allows me to keep going.

Now, you or anyone else, can't be expected to know this, and this knowledge wouldn't make the poem any better or worse.

So you look at the poem as it is, and I appreciate that.

Best, Jim

TomMark
Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133
LA,CA
17 posted 2007-11-26 09:49 PM


Thank you Jim, with best wish.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
18 posted 2007-11-27 06:34 PM


quote:
Sir Brad's poems gave the same feeling.


Or lack of feeling, eh? I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in writing emotionally charged poetry. "How Many" at another site has been called emotionally powerful and I do have a kind of romantic comedy thing going ("It" for example) but for the most part what interests me are the in-between moments, the moments that you can't pin down to a single emotion. I go after those, usually fail, and then try again.

TomMark
Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133
LA,CA
19 posted 2007-11-27 07:10 PM


Dear Sir Brad, I know that you are able to gnaw the toughest part.   You wrote interesting poems out of dull moment. I can't.  But this does not mean that i am less smarter than you.

Tomtoo

Bob K
Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208

20 posted 2007-12-20 11:16 PM


Happy to, oceanview2.  Thanks.

     There's a very fine poem or poem part here.  I mean professionally good, not good from a personal-emotional-expression good framework.  Different objectives, different rules I think.  You've got a terrific sense of building parallelism here, using the verb "causes" as pivotal in each stanza.  A possible alternative, not necessarily a better one but worth a few minutes experimentation might be some sort of seried and building catastrophe of verbs as the various scenarios build.  Or a diminuendo as the scenarios build.  If neither
helps, you've already got "causes," which works well now.

     You have a uncertainty in your exposition that should be looked at.  You've written perfectly clear, straightforward english sentences and have the self doubt that makes you want to qualify them:  "...possibly mischievous, / Possibly benign..." you tell us.  This is material that's probably padding around the powerful stuff around it (There is a spirit that causes boys to jump/ From
Roofs) and which dilutes its considerable impact.  Don't do that.  "A shed will do,"  Yes it will!  That's telling 'em!  Next, however, you follow up with "with graduation/ To garage."  "[W]ith graduation/ To garage" changes the relationship of that phrase to one of subordination.  Till now, you've been moving along with fairly declarative, punchy lines, and now you've undercut that pattern with no advantage to show for it.  One option might be to substitute something like "One day, graduation/ To a garage."  Something to alter the subordination tghe preposition has smuggled into the poem at this point.

     The last two lines of the first stanza, I suggest trying as follows:

"To a garage.  I slid from mine, face forward,
And broke both arms at the wrist."

     Anyone who doesn't know that two broken wrists are worth crying about, especially after the shock wears off,
has not done the homework.  

     Let me take a shot at stanza two:

There is a spirit, less refined, that causes
Boys to jump from windows.  From first floor
Classrooms to drunken leaps
Three stories high into snow banks.
Cold white comforters
For graceless landings which only broke my pride.

There is a spirit that causes
Boys to leap from towers,
A moment's flying, arms outstretched.

     This is as far as I've gotten.  I'll do some more thinking about it if you wish.  It's a very good piece, though some work remains.  My best, BobK

hunnie_girl
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Member Elite
since 2006-06-18
Posts 2567
Canada
21 posted 2007-12-21 01:13 AM


I am very glad I read this Very strong write, made me really think...I saw you let out your thoughts instead of writing the same as everyone I like your style a lot
Krysti

Bob K
Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208

22 posted 2007-12-21 01:20 AM


Dear Oceanview2,

         My wife and I had to go out and pick up a Christmas tree, cutting short my last comments.  

     For some reason, TomMark and Brad seem to have trouble with the feeling that you're showing.  I realize, though, that as I read the forum, that my impression of that may be coming as much or more from you as it may be from them.  I'd like to know from all of you what your impression is about this.  I don't want to attribute thoughts and feelings to people who don't have them.

     My own thought is that oceanview2 is showing exceptional feeling for an frightening subject and that the folks who are giving him feedback seem to see and respect that.  I think, with most of the other folks, that there is a problem with the last stanza.

     One way of thinking about this is as "writing away from the poem."  That is, after you've gotten to the end, you can't quite let go, and so keep rattling on until you reach exhaustion.  When you read the poem out loud to somebody, this may show up for you as a reader as a reluctance to continue reading past the point in the poem when is energy is full and lively.  If somebody else reads the poem to you out loud, you might make notes about the places you feel he or she muffs the reading most eggregiously.  Those may be your weak spots.  Sometimes simply putting the poem aside until it feels like some not too bright stranger wrote it will give you the distance you need.

     There is also "writing up to the poem," for what it's worth.  Heaven knows I've done more than my share of both.

     In my last posting I took one shot at the last stanza; here's another:

There is a spirit that causes
Boys to jump from towers.
Without parachute, their arms
Outstretched, joyfully
They remember the lie of flying.  

     It's probably not right, but it's something to kick around.

     Also, please don't put the copyright sign on poems this way.  While in manuscript, my understanding is that they are protected by copyright anyway, and should an editor happen to see such a thing on a submission, it would probably all by itself, get the poem rejected.  Not only is it not done professionally, but the implication is that the editor might steal your poem himself.   Plagarism does happen, but mostly to people who are reasonably well published.  If you're all that nervous, type up versions of the poems that you want to protect, one for your records, so you'll know what the actual text is, and one to mail to yourself registered mail.  You can include a whole bunch of poems if you want.  When you get the poems in the mail, don't open them; you already have a file copy of the poems in a dated folder and probably on a backed up disk as well.  If you're afraid somebody's plagerized you, you have the registered mail as a last ditch back up copy for proof.  More importantly, you also have the drafts you've done on the poem.

     Don't take my word on this.  Check out other sources as well.  Please, no copywrite stuff to editors, though.

     Anyway, hope this has been useful.  Best, BobK  


jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
23 posted 2007-12-22 11:29 AM


Jim:

I liked this very much.  I've gathered from the other replies and by your comments that you seem to be struggling with the last strophe.

What I like most about the first two is how easy it is to relate to the subject.  As a boy, I found the leaps from high places too difficult a temptation to resist.  I (and I think the other readers) could see themselves jumping from sheds, garage roofs, or windows.

I guess what I was looking for in the third strophe was something I've thought about from time to time but of which I obviously (as I am alive and able to type this) have no first hand experience - namely, the experiences of the tower leaper during the brief fall and thoughts immediately preceding impact.  Even if you don't, I see some opportunities for invention here.  Succeed in doing something like that and I believe this poem will end in a way that does justice to the beginning and middle.

A strong offering, Jim.  I appreciated the read.

Jim

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
24 posted 2007-12-22 11:56 AM



First I’d like to say I liked it.

I read it as a gradual increase in the urge to jump which grows over time until the final leap, I think you described well the feelings of the jumper in the last line - the “a cry for help - a plea for hope” description normally associated with the act.

When you edit consider changing the boy into a youth  in the second strophe and to a man in the third - it would emphasis the progression and growing intensity in the urge to jump.

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