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Critical Analysis #2
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ONCE
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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ONCE |
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Skippyrick Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 150Rohnert Park |
ONCE Mom hurt birth bumped heads stubbed toes bleeding noses oh pain red on red bricks puddle it happens I was there it was I that screamed shock my hands wet past hurt sleeps lost lost loves last long oh pain rejected finding no way out of it only to loose my heart time and again each day is different different pains dreams surrender domestic fights of course I love you oh pain I love music and poetry they don’t hold me listen or encourage discourse with angels smile and remind me to eat Rick Slottow |
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| © Copyright 2006 Rick Slottow - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
You really should proofread before posting if you want serious critique. |
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Skippyrick Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 150Rohnert Park |
man you were quick on that. Yes I should and well I look at it and it look all wrong I think I fixed it. If you want to look at it again go ahead now. sorry rick |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
If you will not at least take the time to put your words into grammatical sentence structures, with careful meaning and flow, then it shall hardly ever deserve to be called poetry. |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
You guys are so narrow in your definition of poetry. I don't think there has ever been a requirement of subject verb relationships or making sure you don't end a sentance with a preposition. That being said -- there does need to be something that draws the reader from one word to another. Maybe format or something. Think about it. CS PS - And come on man, don't use shall in a modern sentence. An artist's job is not to commentate the truth. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
CS, I haven't read a "definition of poetry" here lately. One can call almost anything poetry. A random selection of words, however, rarely makes for interesting reading regardless of what it is called. Is there something in this post that truly "draws you from one word to another?" If so, please enlighten. I think you are right on one point though. Will would have been a better choice of words than shall in the above comment. Shall, however, does have a very important use in a "modern sentence." And grammar is still important in any writing. One must first know how to use it before trying to abuse it. Think about that. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Will would have been a better choice of words than shall in the above comment." Do you mean the poem has a will of its own?  |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
You're kidding, right? Shall: from Merriam-Webster Online quote: I think this should clear it up for both of you. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Will: Wish Shall: Must A poem doesn't have a will of its own (except in a figurative sense), but shall be done according to how it is dealt with. |
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Jess Member
since 2006-06-06
Posts 243Washington |
Well this poem certainly seems to have stirred people up a bit. And isnt that what poetry is all about? Although next time I would try to get people excited for a reason other than offering formatting suggestions. Not to sound harsh or anything. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Read it again Ess. Will is a helper verb helkping its primary verb to indicate future tense. It is true that we often use future tense to indicate something other than future. According to the definition, shall indicates must only in the legal usage. In any other, it is a stronger word than will. Will is never used in a legal context. And common usage is certainly will in most instances except where particular emphasis is intended. If you intended particular emphasis above then I conceed. Shall works. I still contend, however, that that emphasis is likely misplaced in the above context. A simple will would still be a better fit. And Jess, maybe the problem is that the ensuing discussion, although having little to do with the poem, is just plain more interesting than the poem. Ok, I guess we have managed to hijack this thread and we should not do that. It is pretty rude to the original poster. I apologize Rick. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Pete That is like giving a definition of the word house, according to only the measurements of one kind of house. A house is not bound to only one kind of house and measurement. Likewise will and shall, simply and straightfowardly meaning "wish to" and "must/ought to" are not bound to meet narrower stipulations. Anyone is free to use use stiff and narrow stipulations if they will. But those words are broad, and your or the dictionary's stipulations don't remove that broadness, or every English-speaker's freedom to use them so broadly as well. In every earlier stage of the language I know these words also meant their etymological and literal meanings "wish to" and "must" Any further and narrower stipulations don't remove the broad etymological and literal foundations. It irritates me when people institutionalize a narrower meaning and manner than the original and the literal for a word, and then try to make it out as if the word now cannot be any broader than their new stipulations. [This message has been edited by Essorant (06-12-2006 01:40 AM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Ok, I guess we have managed to hijack this thread and we should not do that. It is pretty rude to the original poster. I apologize Rick." Why can't we have any aside-discussion, without being accused of "hijacking" the thread? To me the freedom to discuss whatever critical point is raised helps stir critical activity in this forum. Isn't that a virtue? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Certainly within reason you are right. But here it looks to me like we have gotten completely off the subject of discussing the poem or anything even related to it. It is a valid and useful discussion ut maybe we should ask Rick's permission for it. |
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Skippyrick Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 150Rohnert Park |
WOW!!! This is the most comments I have gotten in all the post. Funny what gets people going? The dissuction here is great. I would have never guested that you all would go so far out on such a tangent responding to a post to a post. I SHALL let it happen. You do not have to ask my permission to so, but I do wonder if the poem was read or is it all the comment? I do relize the there is vary little sentence structure to the poem. I sugest that you read it out loud or it the least try to hear the emotion and or the pain that growing up can cause us. At least that was the point of the poem. I guess that it did bring up some sort of feelings. Hay like this was fun. I SHALL Look forward to seeing what we have to say in the future as we read other so call poems. Thanks I think rick |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"I do relize the there is vary little sentence structure to the poem." But will you do anything about that? It is one thing to realize and another to improve your work. If you don't wish to improve your work to a more critical standard, you may wish to post in the Open Forums instead. People are more interested in what is written there, instead of how it is written. |
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Skippyrick Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 150Rohnert Park |
Ah: Back to the real disscustion. What is a poem and how would one chance this one. I have seen little suggestions for change. Are there good parts. Is there a strucure to the peice? What does it do to you when you read it. Did you read the whole poem? if so than why did you get to the end? Do you rememger the title at the end? The questions I ask myself are numerous both while writing and reading. Rick |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
Did you ask yourself to spellcheck? Or did you really mean "loose my heart"? There is a kind of rhythm to this piece, frantic and disjointed. I wouldn't knock that, per se, I'd knock the connection between the rhythm and the content. However, on commenting, I've forgotten the whole content. My memory's not that bad... I think the structure's confused my understanding of this. Even going back to read, I can't remember any lines. Perhaps it would do better if put to music. at the moment, it doesn't stand on it's own. I think you need something to connect the reader to the idea-a sentence to introduce the rest of it, or a theme to run through it. With a bit of tweaking, you could make this into a stream of conciousness that the outsider could get. at the moment, it's just a collection of words. ps; christianspeaks..."shall" is used quite normally in modern English, by Londoners, in particular. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
So, was E. E. Cummings a poet? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Shouldn't that be e. e. cummings?  |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
Well, 'they' say Cummings did not approve of lower case for his own name. Actually, he employed traditional styles alonside his stranger typography, and a definite theme can be found in all his stuff. Word-play is like all play. There has to be something there in the first place to play with. ps; there is a line I do enjoy in this piece. "...they don't hold me, listen or encourage discourse." Quite interesting, as the lead-up is "I love..." There's something about that line that definitely means something. At first, I cried 'contradiction!', but on thinking, I'm not so sure. pps; Jess...formatting suggestions seem like a suitable reason for me to get excited about. We are in a poetry forum, after all. I'm just as interested in "how". What's written is no more important as how it's written. |
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Beau de L'air Member
since 2006-08-03
Posts 105Middlesex, England |
Rick, Good stuff. (If slightly hysterical.) Look up the poems of Ian Hamilton Finlay, the so called concrete poet. But check him out in images as well. He was my favoutite poet when I was younger, and I regret his death recently. He thought words could be put into shapes too. I like to put pictures on the top of my poems, a multi media thing, which works because a good picture reminds you that the proper(!) subject of a poem is rarely "oneself" unlike other forms of "therapy". Although it can be done well,and has been this week by kif and others. (Note kif's poem 'Phyllis Stein' was self deprecating which is a courtesy to the reader!) [This message has been edited by Beau de L'air (08-07-2006 03:39 AM).] |
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Skippyrick Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 150Rohnert Park |
good stuff!!! Thats different than all the rest of the comments. You have a different perpective than most. Thanks Rick |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
Interesting conversation. I love the fact that so many of these topic go back to the definition of poetry and its many conjegations. Why can't this be poetry? Word association. Reminds me of a little kid jumping from brick to brick mind wondering with their feet. Nice. |
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Skippyrick Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 150Rohnert Park |
What a trip. I did not think that after all this time others would be reading this and finding it fun and even calling it poetry. In it's own right it can be called poerty or stream countiosness. What I find different is that each line and word stand alone, yet as a whole we all need to grow up and find ourselves. Rick |
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