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New Forum Suggestion (couldn't hurt right?)
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New Forum Suggestion (couldn't hurt right?) |
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Kevin
since 1999-11-02
Posts 729Torrington, Ct, Usa 
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I've had this idea in my head for a while now, and I thought I would bounce it off you guys and see what you thought. I remember when the book was coming out and we were able to vote for poems we wanted to make the anthology. By the same process I was thinking we could make a Spotlight Forum. By some regular schedule, *weekly, monthly, etc* forums as a community, would vote for poems they wanted to represent them in the spotlight forum, for all of passions to see. The forum would be reply only, and Senior Moderators could move the poems from the respective forums. This would allow passions as a whole to see the cream of the crop in each forum, while honoring its respected members at the same time, and cross threading each individual forum for many people who stick to just one. If this is economical and possible, with maybe a little sweat from ron, would you guys be game? Let me know what you think, or if this makes no sense at all...man I hate this communication thing  |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
I would agree with this, but I'd rather the post not be moved from the original forum, rather it just be reposted... that way people who read it a first time can come back and give another response and, of course, their congratulations.  It would probably best be done at the end of each month, in each forum, where a thread is posted openly asking for three nominations from the members of the forum. At the end of the month, the nominations would be tallied and the poem would be posted in the spotlight forum by the member who won. I think this is a great idea, Kevin.  Kind of like, a Poet's Choice Award.Parasite Learn to place poetry before people |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
The only problem I foresee is that people might get a wee bit competitive... but I don't know, I think we're all more mature than this. Parasite Learn to place poetry before people |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Can you handle it if your poetry isn't voted on to be in the Spotlight Forum? Would it be based on popularity of the poet or the worthiness of the poem? |
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Kevin
since 1999-11-02
Posts 729Torrington, Ct, Usa |
In a perfect world, worthiness of the poem, and yes I could handle it I would hope that passions would be adult enough |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
That's a good point, PDV... I was thinking it might be a bit of a downer for people who don't get any recognition in such a situation. But really, if we were selective enough and only displayed one monthly, then the majority would not have any exposure, where the actual poem to be put in the spotlight forum would be the vast minority. So... to not be put in the forum wouldn't be a message to anyone that their poem is sub-par... it would just mean they simply weren't the one nominated. Perhaps it would have a better chance of success if the nomination/voting was done anonymously? Parasite Learn to place poetry before people |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I am remembering how it was with the voting process--and honestly? I didn't like the tone of the forum then--it felt like constant "campaigning"--NOW...if there were a way to spotlight poets that did not involve a voting tally? dunnnoooo.... |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
We already have a similar system on the main site (Top 100 Favorites). It works pretty well, as the popularity factor is somewhat tempered by the fact that each person can vote for any specific poem just once. I've always been in favor of incorporating a showcase of favorites here in the forums as well... Whatcha think Ron?.. Huh?.. Huh?..  |
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Kevin
since 1999-11-02
Posts 729Torrington, Ct, Usa |
Perhaps even a limit on how many times you can be nominated to spread exposure, This isn't meant to be a competitive thing, its meant to bring passions together, crossthreading forums. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
The problems with Iraq and the U.N. isn't enough for you? Now you want this??  One of the reasons PIP has lasted this long is that it is NOT competetive. When you tell someone their poem is good enough to be spotlighted, you're telling a hundred others their poem is not. Is that the kind of atmosphere you want? and who is going to judge? Will the judges be competent enough to judge? I know that I'm not capable of judging someone like Christopher, for example. Will the members recognize the judges as being fair and unbiased? Right now people complain that Passions is filled with cliques and circles...you want to add this to it? We get away with the Top 100 on the main site because it is readers from the general populace, not members, who determine the rankings. Do you want to judge poems based on techinical ability? There are only a handful of poets here who qualify. Do you want to judge poems based on content, regardless of technical ability? What would be the criteria? I understand your idea, Kevin, and applaud the thought but there's no sense in talking about how things would be in a "perfect" world because we don't live in one. I know that here, locally, we held a Poetry in a Pub once a month for years that many local poets enjoyed attending and taking part. Someone came up with the clever idea of awarding gift certificates to the top three poems presented and the activity lasted less than six months. I see very few positives and many negatives to this suggestion.... |
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Kevin
since 1999-11-02
Posts 729Torrington, Ct, Usa |
like a dad breaking up a sleepover awww man lol if you make me believe im wrong, i dont see how anyone else wont |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Deer, Deer, Deer... I don't believe for a minute that we couldn't do this in such a way that people aren't hurt. It's a positive concept, not a negative one. What's wrong with letting some of our folks know that their extraordinary efforts are being noticed? It doesn't mean we don't appreciate the rest... Um.. About that 100 best on the main site? Only ONE of my poems has ever made it to that list - and it certainly WASN'T one of my better works..  |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Nan, Nan, Nan....well, you go right ahead and draw it up in such a way everyone will be happy and there will be no hard feelings expressed. LOL! Be sure to do it in such a way no one will feel they aren't recognized because they are not in a "clique". After all, all of our members conduct themselves in a calm, cool, rational manner (forget the screams of "Why am I not getting more responses!?!?!" or "My poems disappear too fast!!!!! or "I'm leaving. Nobody appreciates me here!!!") Do it without making it look like a competition and we will have you on the next plane to the Middle East to solve their issues.  Kevin, the idea was good, really. It's just that, once it gets started, adjustments come into play. If the rule were "The best poems get recognized....period", that would be a good start. But what happens? As you stated in a later reply "perhaps there should be a limit to the number of times one can be nominated". Well, there's a change. What does that have to do with the best poetry? Now it's the best poetry from those who haven't been nominated too many times. There would be other adjustments and other changes and the final product would have little to do with "the best poetry....period". Believe me, I've been there. My poetry group here funded and gave out prizes to high-school students for their poetic abilities in an effort to encourage poetry in the schools and draw new writers into the field. What happened? The poems came in and were graded. The best were set aside into a special pile for further review. One poem was selected as the grand prize winner. A poem was selected as the second prize winner....but wait! The first and second place winners were from the same school! That wouldn't work. The prizes needed to be spread out among different schools to insure their future participation. So what happened? Did the second-best poem get second-best? No...and who wants to be the person to tell the author that he didn't win because the first-place winner was from his school? Was that fair to him? No. So it wasn't the top five poems winning the top five prizes. It was the manipulation of the top poems in a way to keep the most people happy.....except of course for the authors of the poems that should have received higher recognition. Competitions, judgings, gradings, and rule-manipulations are cans of worms. Again, I applaud the idea but I'll have to stick to the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory here. |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
I agree entirely with Balladeer, it’s a positive idea but the probable negative side-effects would far outweigh the possible gains. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
I too think Balladeer is right. This is not a perfect world and PIP is not a perfect group, close but not perfect. I can already visualize the hurt feelings and bent egos. Besides, who is really qualified to do the selections? JMHO, Pete |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
You know what, Kev, maybe they're right after all... I guess you and I are too popular to have any personal fear of this, so it's hard to consider the alternative, isn't it?  |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
How to do it FAIRLY?... That's what we keep Ron around for...  |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Darn! I forgot! That's right....especially since he doesn't have anything else to do  [This message has been edited by Balladeer (09-24-2002 09:32 PM).] |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I agree with 'deer. Unfortunately, there would be a lot of bugs (no pun intended) to work out. But if you could give us some suggestions...make it fair for all without the necessity of Ron working for days on a new software program. |
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Paddy Member
since 2002-09-23
Posts 52Straya |
A very interesting thought, after all, poetry is purchased based on similar principles. I am very new here and have noticed that poems receive a response regardless of the quality or the value in the message and I suspect that this has evolved from the determination of the founders to encourage the poets to write and that is a very good thing. With every yin, there must be yang (although, in modern times there are more yin than yang in the literal sense) and that's not a very good analogy on the face except to say that whilst you might delve into that statement to its depths you would never understand, but for the known metaphor, that I refer to opposites. The opposite is that poets would use political means for the betterment of their ego. Perhaps an alternative to voting for poems would be voting for a panel of say three judges, who might, arbitrarily, provide a live link to the site where the original poem was posted. Let's see, 1 million visits per month. Average visits to new posts (guessing) around 500:1. (Hey, why am I doing the math, you guys have the stats, but, this provides the formula at least) That's 2,000 poems a month, 500 a week. The "Panel" could be 'elected' monthly perhaps with the proviso that the term for re-election is say, 12 months. The 'Panel' would select say 12 poems per week and write a paragraph on each poem and why each was selected. Sounds like fantasy? Dunno. I reckon it would take the least resources and provide all with the opportunity. I shall be quiet now and go back to enjoying the enormous read I have ahead. I guess one becomes content with one’s poetry when one opens the book ten years hence and does NOT exclaim, “Did I really write this?” |
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Paddy Member
since 2002-09-23
Posts 52Straya |
Darn it all. I knew I should have read the responses b4 posting. Balladeer, you elaborate on those issues I touched on in my earlier post, but, I still think it could work in place of the Top 100. Perhaps the Top 100 could evolve to incorporate the "Ten of the Ten". Whilst I enjoyed reading the poems there, I, like Nan, found that many were better, both technically and emotively (if there is such a word, though not to be confused with emotionally). There is no doubt that competition will prevail but, I don't see competition as a bad thing. Competition encourages us all to excel. I see politics to be bad and, whilst my suggestions might not be perfect, at least they minimise the politics. But, I am here for the poetry and don't care too much if one person doesn't enjoy reading mine for I write it for my own enjoyment. It is wonderful when another finds the same enjoyment within my writing. To be completely honest, I find that the people here feel compelled to respond to a new poem they see posted. There are many I have read that I think "What a lovely poem" but I don't respond simply because it doesn't do the poet much good to hear those words. It does the poet wonders to learn "you didn't make this clear" or "This reminds me of ..." or "This is wonderful because ...". Quoting passages from a poem does nothing for me unless the quotation is followed by an explanation, else, it's purely platitude. Hey, that's just my opinion and I am but a mere mortal so, I am off to check out some of the awesome work here. Don't shoot me. I guess one becomes content with one’s poetry when one opens the book ten years hence and does NOT exclaim, “Did I really write this?” |
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Krishankins
since 2002-06-23
Posts 972Texas |
Kevin, I think this is a great idea. It would not only help with getting attention to some of the lesser known poets on here that deserve the attention, but it could also help people's faith in the ability of their writing. Some of these peole write extremely well, and think it's crap. I do, however, agree with the fact that it should be based on the worthiness of the poem, and not the popularity of the poet. If that were the case, we would only be reducing the site, and ourselves, to the cliques and cliches of everyday society. After all, this is a place where EVERYONE is suppose to feel welcome. How would it make someone feel if the first thing they noticed was a forum for the "popular" poets? Anyway, I think this is something that the senior moderators, and administrators should further consider. Thanks for the wonderful idea!!! Kris Hey dog, did you see the size of that chicken!? |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
We have talked about a 'spotlight' forum for a few years now. And most of you have pointed out the many reasons why it hasn't been instituted yet. Passions is a place where even the most novice writer can feel like they will be accepted. It could be intimidating to see a forum for only the 'best'. Who determines it? If I was a judge, I can tell you it would surprise you to read the poetry I think should be spotlighted. How can we keep it from becoming a popularity contest? I think at first, we would have to accept that it would be. But with some honest effort on everyone's part, we could move away from that and focus on shining the light on poetry that receive acknowledgement. But if we are to have a forum for the 'best' will we then strive to make it into that forum? Is everyone willing to work hard to perfect their skill? Would we see a resurgance of discussion in the English Forum? Would Nan's Poetry Workshop be overrun with members? Will CA become the 'testing' ground for poetry? Are you willing to take the chance that your work would NEVER be chosen? How would you feel? What would you do? I would like to see a lot more members ideas on this - is there some way to direct others to this discussion? |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
PDV It seems there is some support for a forum that spotlights and gives recognition to popular poetry, the idea is, as I’ve already said, a worthy one, at least worthy of a second thought. The main objections, including my own, seem to be that rewarding good poems also rewards popular poets which may promote unhealthy competition and possibly rigged voting. If you wanted to remove these possibilities it would seem to make sense to remove the poet from the poem by making all posts in any new forum anonymous until voting is concluded. That way people would be voting for the poem instead of the poet. There would have to be extra safeguards of course, the poem would have to be unique to the new forum i.e. not a re-post and not cross-posted in another forum. To avoid mass rigged or clique voting you’d have to restrict the votes to one per person and actively encourage entrants to use their vote on their own poem. If you throw in a rule that only one poem per member can be entered and enforce disclosure of the author’s names only after the votes have been tallied it might be possible to keep the rule benders at bay or at least minimise their meddling. Who knows you might even have a half-workable system. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
That idea has some merit, C.Eddie. Anonymous is GOOD sometimes as you well know.  |
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Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
A anonymous senior moderator is assigned on a weekly basis to pick one to five poems that they feel show effort and ability beyond the norm for that particular poet; or is simply exceptional poetry. No poet can have more than one poem showcased within a sixty day period. Any poem that is campaigned for will be excluded from consideration. If the poet does not desire his or her poetry to be included in the showcase forum, that wish will be honored. The bump will not be in effect in the forum. I have enough faith in the senior moderators' judgement on poetry to believe they will make the proper selections. Why should there not be some incentive to write better poetry? Human nature is human nature. I do not dispute that fact. We can outlaw kickball, or some can take their kickballs and go home. Such is life. Perhaps someone has written the fifth concerto and somewhere it is being whistled. Let's try and have it performed in the showcase forum. To alleviate any misconceptions about my motives, I have no desire to have any of my poetry in the showcase forum. My mother put only the best poetic and artistic work in the world on her refrigerator. So I know I'm good. (that is a joke) I would prefer to see the better efforts of the Passion's poets without the gargantuan effort of reading every poem. Try it. If it doesn't work out, so what? At least an effort was made. |
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Paul Wilson
since 2002-07-07
Posts 4711United States |
I must say that after reading all of the replies so far I have to agree with Balladeer. If this could be done without any problems I would say do it, but that is highly unlikely. I simply enjoy reading the poems posted at pip by everyone.If a poem touches me I reply. I post my poems here because I want to share them with all of you, not to see how many replies I can get or to be in a popularity contest with anyone. Replies are nice to get because they let you know that your words have touched another in some way and that is gratitude enough for me, I don't need to be in the top 100 or on the most liked poem list. When I no longer write simply to share with others my thoughts and feelings I will quit writting...Paul |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Tim, should we call the forum the 'Fridge' instead of the Spotlight forum? |
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Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
That is why it was included. Nothing wrong with being showcased on a frig. *smile* *methinks that gives too little credit, or maybe too much, and I don't even have an ex (unrelated issue) [This message has been edited by Tim (09-27-2002 10:50 PM).] |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
i'm not going to get myself caught up in your animated discussion. i'm simply here to let you know that i think it is a wonderful idea. i think the members could greatly benefit from being exposed to what the rest of pip has to offer. as well, it would be almost like a reward to those poets who work hard on their pieces, and edit and redraft. and an incentive to those who post eight poems in a day [no names mentioned] to work harder and realise that quality is more valued than quantity. i seriously hope you consider this idea ron, it would be awesome. especially for those who come across a poem and think that much more should be done than just having a few replies. i remember reading the best ever poem in pip [about a year ago]. it's still in my library and i'm not sure where the author went, but it was AMAZING. /jen/ so foul and fair a day i have not seen. - macbeth act 1, scene 3 |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
If you guys are serious about this, how about having a revolving list of judges? Sort of like the sign-up sheet for being a Deputy Moderator. Then, of course, the administrators are permanent members of the judging. So sort of like Senior Judges and Deputy Judges? There'd probably be a lot of math to figure out how the percentages should skew. But if you give everyone a vote who wants to take one? It's the same as bumping -- no different from what we're doin' now. Just my thought. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
I personally don't think it will work if it's based on the best or the most improved or any such thing..I would rather see it take on the form of spotlighting someone...anyone..everyone...someone new each week..telling a little about themselves and why they write, how they got started etc..a more in depth profile..then leave a link for their poems beneath..and the readers can go to the search link and be able to read their poems..and then respond about their work (in total) of course you read those poems you wish..or all if someone is taken, with that person's poetry. OR: I usually don't compare sites because I left one to come here, due to infighting about critiquing(sp?) but we had a poet of the month (would be forever in months and years to do that here) but a poet of the week would work and the poet posted his favorite poems..around 5 of them and placed them with a picture, if he wanted to, reading them aloud on the site...so we get to hear their voice...and people can respond to it... then the next week someone new, but the old one can still be seen and heard and responded to. I don't know what the selection process would be, but it could be that the moderators select someone and notify them in advance and ask if they would like to be the poet for the next week...giving them time to prepare for it in case they don't know how to do that. If they don't want to do it then you pick someone else. If someone is interested, tomorrow I can add the link to that site and you can see how it worked. At the moment I am not on my own computer... Maybe this will help... we would be introducing poets to each other. Just an added thought Maureen |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I like the poet profile idea Maureen!! |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Village/8840/archives.html? This was the link to the response I gave above... click on a few of the poets and see how it is arranged..the individual poem links, for instance on mine will need to load and even though you are hearing them, after they load if you reclick the arrow to play again, you will hear a smoother audio. M [This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (10-02-2002 04:14 PM).] |
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amigo Senior Member
since 2001-10-12
Posts 520the earth school |
And so, shall i also add my thoughts to the discussion/confusion? can the selections be made from different groups - group (1) - people with submissions below 20, group (2) - 20 to 40 etc., etc... i totally agree with Balladeer...this may be quite a task & with lot of repurcussions...but my intention is only for self-improvement...as to how a 'qualified' poet will be analysing/judging a particular poem, what aspects are to be focused on while writing in future etc.... what do you all say?... |
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