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Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

0 posted 2003-11-01 03:16 PM


Before I ever attempt to write in or critique any formal meter I want to be sure of what stress is; others may be needing this too for stress management
Definitions/instructions on meter always refer to a meter by how many and where the "stresses" are placed making "feet".  But for some reason they don't go--or at least not specifically that I have ever found--into  the conditions that make a strong or stressed syllable, and those that make a weak or unstressed.  Do long vowels always mean long stresses?   Do short vowels always mean short stresses? Are diphthongs treated the same? And may consonant combinations sometimes determine them as otherwise?  There are many lengths to vowels, and many combinations, how do we know for sure which ones fit into the strong and stressed and the weak and unstressed catagories?   Is there anyway we may list all the sounds and syllables and indicate if they are strong/stressed or weak/unstressed so doubters like me may find a way out of their doubt!
If there's any who may help out there, I'd really appreciate hearing from you       

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-01-2003 08:51 PM).]

© Copyright 2003 Essorant - All Rights Reserved
nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200
Between the Lines
1 posted 2003-11-02 11:17 AM


I never thought of words and vowels as long or short stressed for the patterns in poetry

To me it is how you accent the syllable...not forcing it...when spoken
you asked  about short vowels being stressed  short..take the word
happening...
hap'  pen ing..the stress I would put on the first syllable...has nothing to do with short and long  has to do with the main word .. its endings if any. But if  every other syllable needed to be accented I would choose another word  because ing doesn't get  accented ...

I just read a poem as if it is being spoken aloud  and if I have to force the stress to make it fit a form then it is not a word that fits that form...examples to study would
be in iambic pentameter...when you study a form check on line and  read up on the accents if it is every other syllable or whatever..many times  I see poets use  one syllable words to make the rhythm  work.

use the dictionary...of course some other English speaking countries accent differently

and  if none of this makes sense..well wait for someone  else to explain it. I have never had much problem with  that part of poetry so  maybe I can't explain it clearly...as many say in CA...read up on some famous poets or teachers of poetry
and their formed poems and  see the pattern...that is how I learned..by example.

M

Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
2 posted 2003-11-02 12:51 PM


Nakdthoughts,

Thank you.
It does clear up some things indeed.
I think they are the subtile differences I am getting mixed up at.  
For ex. Look at the first lines of Dryden's Translation of ├ćneid:
These are Herioc lines so every second syllable must be stressed:

"Arms, AND the MAN I SING, who FORC'D by FATE
And HAUGHty JUNo's UNreLENTing HATE
ExPELL'D and EXil'd LEFT the TROjan SHORE"

"And" is stressed in the first line and then it is unstressed in the second.  

"ing" in unrelenting is not stressed in the second line but "sing" is stressed in the first.

" "JU" of "Juno" seems to me the same sound as in  unstressed "who" but is stressed.

The "a" in "arms" to me seems almost the same as the "au" in haughty but one is stressed and the other isn't.

"Ex" in expell'd is not stressed but "Ex"
  in exil'd is!

I wish I could understand the meter of one of my favorite works of all time, but I can't even get past the first three lines!  
I should probably just give up trying to understand it.


[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-02-2003 01:05 PM).]

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200
Between the Lines
3 posted 2003-11-02 01:17 PM


Ess..it's not the vowels in those examples you gave me..it is the entire word and  its spoken syllable stressed as in the dictionary..don't base it on vowel sounds...ing and Sing are two different things..one is a word  one is an ending..has nothing to do with the sound...

if you ever write a poem and want to know if the  syllables are stressed properly send it to one of us to read and  help you...read it aloud several times... I don't think there are standard rules...because poets do  sometimes make their own rules..I make up a lot of words on my own..put endings
on words that  aren't verbs..but I make them so  just for my purpose..(but then I will never be famous and am not trying to be perfect) but structured poetry is stricter.
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/9282/the_biki.htm

a link if you would like to study some examples..a site and friend where some of us came from before  finding a home at passions


Maureen

Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
4 posted 2003-11-05 12:42 PM



Certes I have some more reading & learning to do about this!   Thank you so much for your kind advice; and the link as well.

Essorant

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