»
Archives
»
Critical Analysis #1
»
Tea with Germaine
| Critical Analysis #1 |
|
Tea with Germaine |
|
|
Joricho Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56Australia |
OK, deep breath.... this is a poem about an ISSUE, and as such it is a real departure for me. As always, all suggestions gratefully received. (btw, hope I'm not posting these too often... don't want to be greedy!) Tea with Germaine I bought early the lie that I am I without others, that worthwhile lives are wrestled out of solitary clay, and that dependence is the great and only crime. A conviction introduced by the bruises on those whose need was their prison, and given words by strong and tortured heroines. They poured contempt on the tiredness of my mother, on the small wounds woodwork left on my father's hands. They were the fiercest surgeons always for amputation immediately. They lived alone. They showed their scars with pride. They lied. |
||
| © Copyright 2001 Joricho - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Joricho: I like this. My impression is that certain peers lauded the virtues of independence at the expense of the speaker's parents. The speaker has learned the "errors" of strict Individualism and now regrets his/her errors. The first stanza is particularly well stated, in my opinion. The first line gives the stanza a momentum that easily carried me into the body of the poem. The following stanzas do a good job of illustrating the extreme position held by the speaker (previously) and his/her peers. The diction is neither overstated nor understated. I particularly like the way you ended the poem. The speaker's personal regret does not seem to transform to anger toward his/her peers, but, rather, takes the form of pity for their self-delusion. Thanks for an enjoyable read. Jim |
||
|
Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Hey Jim, it's good to see you back. We've missed you critiques around here. Pete |
||
|
hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I think the first two stanzas of this are amazing... very profound. The last three stanzas I interpret to illustrate the folly in over-independance and the femi-nazi way? Overall, I really like this; the end isn't quite as strong as the beginning, maybe because you went from an almost diplomatic style to sharp wording, and the former impressed me more... If I had a soul I sold it |
||
|
Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
I like I like I like....you know how some writing just gels when you read it..how it sounds tight. This is such...just a few little suggestions and comments. quote: Although I like the concept of the second line I found it tripped me up. I mentally stumbled over it - and reading it aloud it still sounded a bit imbalanced. Not sure I'm happy with the two 'thats' so close together either...but other than that this stanza is great.. quote: I like how the last line echoes the pattern in the last line of the first verse - gives it a nice rhythm...'strong and tortured heroine' - gives me many impressions actually...futility mixed with purpose...good stuff here. quote: I think the first two lines here are superb. These four lines bring such immediacy and life..reality. There is no way to escape the emotion here. [quote]They were the fiercest surgeons always for amputation immediately. They lived alone. They showed their scars with pride. They lied.[quote/] Now here, I am thinking you need to expand these...in agreeance with hush. You have some amazing use of language here and to do justice to this I feel the last two sections need to say a little bit more..a little bit more uniquely. Overall though...a great poem Joricho.  KIt is to do with tree-ferns: |
||
|
warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Joricho, I enjoyed this immensely. It is certainly contemporary, with so much independence from family being stressed, especially by peers. The journey back to the family, and the need for them was very nicely put. Very well written...good read. Kris "It is wisdom to know others; |
||
|
furlong Member
since 2001-04-08
Posts 129 |
Joricho Did you know she chaired the panel of judges in the recent National Poetry Competition in the uk .... and .... and ... a MAN won! .... lol sorry just had to say that ...lol ok, basically I liked parts of this a lot but overall I think you missed an opportunity to make it more interesting by signalling the speaker’s stance from line one. And while the circularity with the closure was neat - it was perhaps just a little too neat - all wrapped up nicely in a tidy little package, just like the archetypal “little housewife” herself might do, no?..or maybe that’s what you intended. The details: Tea with Germaine >>>nice ironic title - tea on the vicarage lawn; a blue rinse tea; tea with chintz and bone china; sooooooo conventional so middle class so un-feminist ... so ironic and funny! I bought early the lie that I am I without others, that worthwhile lives are wrestled out of solitary clay, and that dependence is the great and only crime. >>> standing alone the opening is strong I think, but as I said before I’m not sure whether such a clear declaration makes for the best poem in the end. My approach (especially given the clever title) might have been to keep the reader guessing about where the speaker stood till near the end or maybe even right to the closure. A conviction introduced by the bruises on those whose need was their prison, and given words by strong and tortured heroines. >>> this strophe is written as a single sentence, but feels unfinished somehow so divorced from the linked references in the first strophe. I’d be tempted to combine both strophes and to use a comma or maybe a semi-colon after crime, perhaps? >>> “strong and tortured” is so so germaine......lol They poured contempt >>> contempt has been poured quite a lot before don’t you think? maybe find a more original metaphor? on the tiredness of my mother, >>> and “tiredness”..humm.. I’m sure you can improve on that. These two lines were for me the weakest but on the small wounds woodwork left on my father's hands. >>>in contrast, I thought these two were great! They sound good, and say so much. The understatement is powerful, the image compelling. They were the fiercest surgeons always for amputation immediately. >>> funny old world .. were you influenced by jenni’s poem or is it just me?! I’m always doing this - reading good poetry and then finding myself, sometimes weeks later, writing (not so good poetry..lol!) with echoes of what I read - influence it’s called I believe - I don’t think its bad either.......sorry a diversion there.....lol .... yes I liked this stanza, the shape of it, and the word “immediately”. They lived alone. They showed their scars with pride. They lied. >>> I think you get away with “scars with pride” and anyway I like the ironic parallel with the father’s wounds, and the potential for hypocrisy. >>> the ending is neat, but, for the third time.....lol, it lacks the element of surprise which I think might give it more power. >>>btw what’s with everyone using reductive closures at the moment in this forum...lol? but I liked it! F |
||
|
Joricho Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56Australia |
Thank you, thank you, thank you... I'm always humbled by the effort you are all willing to put into improving others' work... this has been enormously helpful. Specifically: Jim and Hush, glad you like it... Hush, I think you put your finger on the issue others raised, which is one of how it hangs together.. the "flow". Severn (Kamla, is it?)... THanks for your critique. I'm always a sucker for a bit of rhyme in the midst of my blank verse, which is why I stuck with the first 3 lines when they popped into my head! I'll have a think about it. I agree with your comments about the last stanza... a few others mentioned it too. Again, the rhyme thing always gets me into trouble! Kris... yes, it's been a personal journey... not that I don't appreciate the questions that have been asked by women like Germaine... GOOD questions! Just don't think anymore that the answer is to make yourself a fortress..! F - thanks, this was REALLY helpful, put a word to a couple of issues I had felt but not quite worked out. I'm v. amused with your suggestion that the ending is neat and housewifely... heh heh heh.. not intentional! I'll have to do something about that! I am definitely in agreement that the ending loses punch because of the early declaration of where the speaker stands... but I like the opening as it stands... darn, may have to sacrifice it! Will change the punctuation for the second stanza as you suggested - that works better, I agree. Still thinking about the end... I'll let you know. Thanks again, all! JO Many waters cannot quench love, |
||
|
jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
hi jo-- i don't have much time, but i just wanted to say (quickly) that i thought you really did a great job on this, especially the opening (including the first line, definitely grabs the reader's attention), and the third stanza, but really, the entire piece.  i think the poem might be more effective, however, if there was some indication, after the third or fourth stanzas, HOW the speaker came to realize that "they lied," especially after buying it all at one point. (basically, i disagree with furlong's idea that "they lied" is or should be the payoff here.) what is it that the speaker has learned that they haven't? there are hints in the last three stanzas, but i say, be bold! show us that turning point on the speaker's personal journey. i'll try to get back to this in a few days when i have a little more time. again, wonderful job on this! as always, i enjoy reading your work. thanks for posting this for us! jenni [This message has been edited by jenni (edited 06-04-2001).] |
||
|
Sundown Junior Member
since 2001-06-04
Posts 16does it really matter? |
I really enjoyed this poem, but the last line of "they lied" just somehow diddn't fit in as well because it rhymed with the line before it... but other than that it was terrific "She's been looking like a queen in a sailor's dream, and she don't always say what she really means" |
||
|
furlong Member
since 2001-04-08
Posts 129 |
I am in a hurry too joricho, but just to say that actually jenni isn't disagreeing with me (she thinks she is, but she isnt), and her suggestion is definitely a good one. The thrust of the point i was making is that the neat circularity needs to be avoided one way or another; there is not enough surprise or revelation in the poem at the moment. Whether you choose to overcome this problem by tampering with the end or the beginning or by introducing the insight jenni suggests I don’t think matters much. Anyway I’ll shut up now ... lol F |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
You've got the idea, you've got the skeletal imagery but I think you need to take it further. Maybe, and this is just an idea, take some time and write two or three pages of automatic writing on this theme and the images, describing as much as you can, every little detail, and see what you can use to flesh it out a bit more. You know, I guess it doesn't hurt when we actually agree with what's being said. Brad |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
