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Jamie
Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168
Blue Heaven

0 posted 2000-11-14 01:39 AM


A rearward glance at the rapids behind
loosens a foot upon this cold wet stone.
Contemplating the steps ahead I find
the distance between each foothold has grown -
as have the doubts which have always been there.
It's been a struggle from the very start
I feel the sting of every scar I bear
from the endless wounds each fall did impart.
Here upon this cold quiescent island
as I boldly plot the next faithless leaps
I find myself wishing for some highland
instead of granite lying bout in heaps.
Stepping-stones that lead to an undreamt dream
thankfully leave behind a nightmare real.
I don't even know if I stand mid-stream
and I see no relief from this ordeal
A cold water drowning holds no allure
and all chances to return have now passed.
but the next great jump may come to assure
this rock on which I now stand is my last.




Jamie

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil.
"Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely".


© Copyright 2000 Jamie Patterson - All Rights Reserved
OLIAS
Senior Member
since 2000-06-20
Posts 1090
Pearl city Iowa
1 posted 2000-11-14 12:15 PM


Hi Prometheus,
First I'd like to say that this is the first time I've commented on anyones work in this forum and its purely a personal perspective, so dont break my door down and shoot me lol.
As a whole the piece works well, it speaks to me of the comparison between crossing the water and life. I like this idea very much, and has great scope for development.
"A rearward glance at the rapids behind"
"Loosens a foot on this cold wet stone"
this speaks of looking back into our past and being less confident of our future, a good opening,
"Contemplating the steps ahead I find
the distance between each foothold has grown"
a reiteration of lack of confidence and maybe of getting older? I like this too.
"As have the doubts which have always been there". This line supports the lines before it but I'm not sure wether its needed, but it works.
I'm not sure about the next section from "Its been a struggle from the very start" to "instead of granite lying about in heaps", the metre has changed and doesnt seem as strong as the first five lines, the rhyme seems a little more contrived. I like "Cold quiescent island" it gives me a feeling of lonliness and isolation and "I find myself wishing for some highland" is a stronger line than "instead of granite lying about in heaps", I know you where hampered by "leaps" in the preceding line but i feel it weakens the piece. I would have liked to have had this section continue in the vain of the first five lines, thats easy for me to say and I dont know how this could be achieved without losing some of the spontaneity.
"stepping -stones that lead to an undreamt dream"
"Thankfully leave behind a nightmare real",
Im not sure that I would be thankful for any nightmare, unless a nightmare is better than no dream at all, I'll have to think on that one. I like the next line "I don't even know if I stand midstream", seems to be about where I am and where Im going and it links with the last line, "this rock on which I now stand is my last", I would maybe have liked to have seen this developed further, about getting to a place in your life and like the rock standing up for your convictions, putting a stake in the ground, I liked this very much.
I'm getting ahead of myself.
From "And I see no relief from this ordeal" to "But the next great jump may come to assure", seem at odds but work, you are as low as you can get but still look optimistic, this bolsters the considerable strength and fortitude of the last line.

I hope this has helped and not hindered you, I have tried to make my comments as constructive as I can, Thank you this was a very enjoyable piece of work.

Regards
Olias

dragonpoe
Senior Member
since 2000-11-12
Posts 608
Palm Bay, Florida
2 posted 2000-11-15 04:12 PM


I read this as a retirement from rock-climbing. It gave me the impression of being mid-cliff and hanging there, looking up, looking down and just letting the mind wander, knowing that rock climbing days are over, after this.
Then again, I can put it in a metaphorical sense and see it as Life on one side and Life on the other, and being caught somewhere in the middle.
I wonder, though, as I enjoyed this piece, if you'd consider spacing the stanzas. For me, it makes it easier to read, and since the rhyme scheme does seperate each set of four lines, it would draw attention more to the rhyme if space allowed each set to show clearly. Does that make any sense whatsoever? Sorry, we are having a cool day here in Florida and I think my mind is frostbit  
Anyhoot, enjoyed the read, spacing is the only suggestion I have to offer.

With the word, I am mighty, with the pen I am free..
dragonpoe

Dark Angel
Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095

3 posted 2000-11-19 08:13 AM


Jamie

I am not 100% sure about meter, although I am in the process of learning  

Olias mentions how it changes from the 5th line down, but I can't see that, see, I am still learning  

I enjoyed your poem Jamie, how you speak about, well I read it as, a life from new, or young growing into an adult and his/hers experiences through that stage and then coming to this point, this rock in time, where this person will leap of and decide not  stand mid-stream. This person decides to move on leaving behind the nightmares.

I may be wrong, but that is how I read it  

Great Poem Jamie  
although sad, it's very strong and positive  

Maree< !signature-->

"If my words could blanket the skies
and fill every corner and crevice of
this earth, still this won't be enough"
"Maree Russo"


[This message has been edited by Dark Angel (edited 11-19-2000).]

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
4 posted 2000-11-19 04:57 PM


Jamie

For some reason I keep wanting to read this poem as 5 quatrains, perhaps the rhyme scheme draws one in that direction - though I’m not sure whether it would improve the poem or not (still in indecisive mode I’m afraid).  

Olias has already said much of what i wanted to so I’ll just confine myself to saying that the metaphor of the speaker marooned on a rock of relative calm with rapids behind and wide apart slippery footholds in front is pretty clear and convincing.  A life of trial and pain behind, a period of hiatus, and the unknown (either better of worse) in front.  Good idea.  

In execution your meter varies a little if you were aiming for regular iambic pentameter.  In fact, although I’m all for variations to break monotony in iambic rhythm, I would prefer such variations to be used to enhance or accentuate the verse in some way i.e. to contribute to the effect the poet is trying to create.  Sometimes where you break the meter i can’t honestly see any good reason for it - although it may be that you simply didn’t want to sacrifice meaning for meter - in which case maybe I’m being presumptuous  .  There is one place where the meter definitely becomes bumpy:

Stepping-stones that lead to an undreamt dream

this is actually a fascinating line because, whether you deliberately penned that line with the image of a person tottering jerkily on stepping stones or not, that is precisely the effect the sound and broken rhythm of the line conveys to me.  I’ve deliberated for a long while trying to decided how to stress it and all i can be certain of is that the first syllable “STEP” is stressed which means that the line is likely to have a trochaic or dactylic start.  More noticeable is that following the stressed “LEAD” there is a quick flurry of unstressed syllables (either two or three), thus -

LEAD to an un      DREAMPT      DREAM

or

LEAD to an      UN dreampt     DREAM


but i (again) cant make up my mind which it should be.  Not that it matters much, because the overall effect is, as i say, one of jerky quick irregular movement - which fits pretty well i guess.

Other places in the poem I’m not so sure benefit from the dropping of the iambic rhythm.  In fact the opening line makes me stumble a little and due to the fact it IS the opening line might have been better in strict iambic pentameter, at the moment you have:

a REAR   ward GLANCE    AT the    RAP ids   be HIND

switching to trochees mid line.   Maybe instead:

a REAR   ward GLANCE     the RAP    ids CLOSE     be HIND

ok so the meaning changes slightly and you’d need to adjust the second line as well I guess:

make LOOSE   my FOOT    up ON     this COLD   wet STONE

or something!!.....lol


Then you revert to near perfect iambic for these lines:

as have the doubts which have always been there.
It's been a struggle from the very start
I feel the sting of every scar I bear

but the next is a real stumbler beginning as it does with an inversion and never really recovering the iambic rhythm:

from the endless wounds each fall did impart.

Other little quibbles:

there were a lot of “cold(s)”

“endless wounds” came off a little clunky ...difficult to “see” an endless wound!

“Faithless” didn’t like at all - i think maybe the usage is suspect unless you meant an allusion to infidelity of some kind?  I suspect however you were shooting for the idea of the speaker himself having no faith in his own judgement ie “faith-less” ie “without faith in himself” .. for me that literal meaning is totally blotted out by the implication of disloyalty or treachery.  On the other hand if you were indeed going for an allusion to infidelity ..then it works fine i suppose with the one qualification that this is the only place in the poem i can find any suggestion that their might be a wronged third person involved in the speaker’s misfortunes, and to that extent it seems kind of out of place.

“highland” would be clearer to me as “high land” but i may be missing something there

“bout” is necessary to preserve the meter but imho is too “light” for the piece

well there ya go - some good, some quibbles, neat idea and one pretty interesting line ..

thanks

philip

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
5 posted 2000-11-19 10:12 PM


I suppose you save the 'fatalist' consequences with the 'may come' in the second to the last line -- that's fine and as long as no one else is going to complain, I see no reason to. Still, it's exactly that point that bothers my reading; I don't see a shift in the viewpoint of the character; I see someone talking about their struggle but not showing that struggle:

as have the doubts which have always been there.
It's been a struggle from the very start
I feel the sting of every scar I bear
from the endless wounds each fall did impart.

should be placed in more detail, should be given in a way that emphasizes the rock and the island metaphor (I could easily see this turn into a kind of science fiction, surrealist work with just a word change here or there).  As it is now, it seems too vaguely retrospective -- give us a more complete scene.

I wonder if you might want to turn the metaphor (the rocks and the water) into more of a real scene, a story or something because right now it reads as a metaphor with rather depressing consequences.  Ending a poem tragically is fine but ending it futilely leaves the reader a little dry.

Others have already discussed the metric problems.

You have a good idea that deserve a greater attention to detail.

Just an opinion,
Brad

Jamie
Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168
Blue Heaven
6 posted 2000-11-23 02:00 AM


Thanks for all the great comments.... they are a great help....( I guess making it stumble was not a good idea)  


Jamie

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil.
"Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely".


warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

7 posted 2000-11-24 02:59 PM


Jamie,

I agree with most of the other comments, and wish to say that I don't think a "rock" would be "our last" unless one was purposefully risking his/her life, or was taking their final breaths. Every "jump"...step we take in life is a risk in one way or another, yet does not mean it is the end of life if the risk does not turn out to be worthy of our actions.

Just one lil ole opinion,

Kris

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." ~
Albert Einstein


Tanga
Junior Member
since 2000-07-02
Posts 39
BC Canada
8 posted 2000-11-28 04:17 AM


Between a rock and a hard place still rings true, eh? Hugss <**>
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