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playing goddess III
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playing goddess III |
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Elizabeth Cor Senior Member
since 2000-10-13
Posts 879Over the river and through the woods 
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First, let me explain that I TRIED to just paste this in on top of the org revision so I wouldn't be making so many new posts... HOWEVER, due to the rule that you cannot edit an org. post after 24 hrs, AND the fact that my e-mail is not working at present (so I cannot contact a moderator except through the forums) I am hosting yet another "new topic". Also, my personal notes on this revision are attached to the org. "playing goddess (revised)". Good luck figuring out the latter  .Elizabeth sits inside the square… swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder: luring exotic reconstruction. Arranged outside the public communion, she blinks expectancy to monitor. Has powerpleasure coaxed obsession? The persuasion of command: to shut out mannequins at some nonexistent party if she turns West to trophy herself in the mirror? Between invites to underage thighs and “Hi how r u?”s She is waiting for someone to solidify, to escape her solipsist’s window And demand her attention… I am Elizabeth. I am Sybil logins: Beth is delicateandmelancholy Beth is her_laugh_is_infectious Beth is Hard_Cor (ha ha) Beth is lizzacreature I catalogue my emotions in vain name diffusions and declare my occupation as ‘shadow’. I am randomly. I am the villain idol, when black and white threaten my sexual borders. And if I chant Sappho to some invisible consort, I am divine. Where I am god, my photographs vouch profundity = Athena reincarnate. Black outlines carve a profile perfect; snapshot decoy swears, Oh, yes, this is me. I give you verse and prose, flawless paragraphs Draft my inches sexy, super-sharp: legs and brains, the ultimate wet dream. I am America’s nongeneration: the insolent contemporaries. I demand my flaws redeemed. So damn my country if it confesses such disbelief: that I am not the twentysomethings’ midnight goddess: Perfect skin and flair, Clever, liberal beauty with golden chestnut hair, who sparkles her angel light only to the fancy of blank typeface people, computer-composed. 10 o ‘clock, night settles supine over its haunches. I fingerprint the miniature glass wall, letting pixel threshold inebriate me. In sickly blue wash I push -- with the anticipation of prom night, with the boredom of study hall -- the dull gray box (holding every universe I dare to create). My omnipresence attends illusory rooms, and I can act freely without worry of consequence. Chancing the strange certain acceptance of a sub-reality, I may open the bits of my souls too scared or drained to unsheathe themselves in daylight. I watch populations become the impossible transients, escaping corporeal bonds, and transcending. I snare them out nightly and hang them on my every word. God, when I am in their semi-realm, how Elizabeth shines. ~ Beth I hate quotations. Tell me what you know. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Beth: I like the rewrite. One suggestion regarding sound: Lose the "So" in the "So damn my country ..." line. Beginning such a line with a stressed syllable lends more force to the sound of the line. In your case, beginning the line with an unstressed syllable suggests a lack of conviction. Notice the relative strengths of the "I" statements in your two preceding lines and I think you will see what I mean. Perhaps you would consider spelling "DAMN" with all caps (like you do with "TRIED" in your preface). Since your poem already uses chat-language, why not use the all-caps thing to make the word "yell". Just some thoughts. Also, I liked the ending of the second version better. The irony of the "real" world contrasted with the bluster of the "virtual" was satisfying to me. Your version 3 ending didn't have the same effect on me. Just an opinion. Thanks for the read. Jim |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
Hi Elizabeth,,- wonderful work here.... "swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder: luring exotic reconstruction." I am not sure what you mean by luring exotic reconstruction...luring herself to change-- or is she just practiced at slipping in and out of herself??? "...blinks expectancy to monitor" is expectancy meant as a noun here, or should it be expectant?? "She is waiting for someone to solidify, to escape her solipsist’s window And demand her attention…"--thought this line spoke particularly well to the theme of the poem. The rest of the poem is dynamic and rich in action-- much better to showcase this poem... actions are much better than telling a story....there is so much to say in this but even I haven't that much time.....the ending is perfect===My how she shines==== a wonderful and overall well written poem. Jamie Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil. "Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely". |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
So jim prefers the original closure and jamie likes this one ... lol. Apologies for not checking this or your others out yet beth i have some r/l stuff to sort out ... back later i hope. philip |
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Elizabeth Cor Senior Member
since 2000-10-13
Posts 879Over the river and through the woods |
HI! I'm back! Anyone miss me? I don't have much of an explanation for this revision other than what I've already attached to the "Gypsy (revised)" post. So my only comments are for the latter replies… Jim, I didn't want much force on "damn my country"… it should be an unsure line (as in false over-confidence) still, if there is a better way to word this, let me know. Still playing with this one - the ending is subject to change at anytime, but thanks for the feedback .Jamie, ~snippet~ "swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder: luring exotic reconstruction." I am not sure what you mean by luring exotic reconstruction...luring herself to change-- or is she just practiced at slipping in and out of herself??? ~ "luring exotic reconstruction", this is suppose to be a description of the swishing emotions (I thought the colon was enough of an explanation … stupid me, I expect other people to instantly understand I use punctuation as denotation  . Sorry).Stating that the mood swings (the "reconstruction") are exotic and luring to others around her. If this is confusing, I'll change it somehow… I always write out things that make perfect sense in my head and make other people scratch their own heads and wonder if they're reading upside down. About the ending: note the above comment. Philip, take your time… I know you'll gut this when you get the time.  ~ Beth Now I've been happy lately Thinking about the good things to come And I believe it could be Something good has begun |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Yes, did miss you beth, in fact thought we'd lost you in fact i kinda ground to a halt on my crit because of that ... i shall complete it now and be back soon  P |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
Hi Again,, Don't mean to be too picky but.. Even after the exlanation I still do not think the "luring" line works--- if luring is used as a transitive verb which is how it reads, then the reader is led to think that she is attracting the reconstruction rather than exhibiting it. If on the other hand it is used as an adjective which would seem to be the intended usage, perhaps the more familiar alluring or perhaps inticing would work better...all this of course is just my opinion....it just seems to read better that way..-- still a very good poem either way. Jamie Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil. "Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely". |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Due to the fact that you don't read other people's poetry here, I see no reason to comment here. The game is the game. Learn it. Brad |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
beth as you know i'm totally with brad in what he says, but i got so far with this i'll still give it a look. i hope you'll have the time and inclination to comment on some of the poetry here, because despite what you may feel, you do have the ability. P oh and maybe have a look at Brad's post "To everyone on critiquing" i brought it to the top again and the link: /pip/Forum12/HTML/001267.html [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 11-01-2000).] |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
Whatever did I miss here? Jamie Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil. "Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely". |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Beth I’m labelling up the two versions below with line numbers. The “a” prefixing the number in the text lower down indicates the pre-revision poem - i expect you can guess what the "b" means ..lol 1 Elizabeth sits inside the square…… 2 swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder, 3 and it makes her interesting 4 acts as a ***** but instead becomes engaging to her audience. 5 outwits herself for challenge in the one on one melodramas. 6 She waits outside the public communion, when some immaterial subject abruptly 7 jumps her to sudden introversion: 8 We'll explore space when we've wasted enough of the planet to not want to be here anymore: evolution is based on societies' necessity and 9 profit" 10 Is it simple powerpleasure to adjust the resolution of the whole world; 11 to shut out mannequins at some nonexistent party with 12 flip of a slim white switch? 13 Between the porno prompts and invites of "Hi how r u?" 14 She is waiting for someone to solidify, 15 to escape her solipsist's window 16 And demand her attention…… 17 I am Elizabeth. 18 I am Sybil logins: 19 Beth is delicateandmelancholy 20 Beth is her_laugh_is_infectious 21 Beth is Hard_Cor (ha ha) 22 Beth is lizzacreature 23 I post my emotions with vain name exemptures and declare my occupation as 24 'shadow'. 25 I am randomly. 26 I am the new age astronaut 27 who guides her fingers over the ascent of inter-space - 28 body embedded in planetskin. 29 I am the villain idol, when black and white threaten my sexual borders. 30 And if I chant Sappho to some invisible consort, I am divine. 31 Where I am god, 32 my pictures alter soft candle light, 33 pedestal my prettiest poses. 34 Black outlines a perfect profile 35 and everything tells you, Oh, yes, this is me. 36 I give you poetry and prose, the perfect paragraphs, 37 share my mundane philosophies with final impeccable words. 38 I draft myself sexy, super-sharp: legs and brains, the ultimate wet dream. 39 As the Americanized, as the young, 40 I am invincible, fantastic, and should be loved for what I am 41 So **** the World for its misunderstanding, 42 for their disbelieving that I am the twentysomethings' midnight goddess: 43 Perfect skin and flair, 44 Clever, liberal beauty with golden chestnut hair, 45 who sparkles her angel light only to the fancy of blank typeface people, 46 computer-composed. 47 God, when I am in their semi-realm, how Elizabeth shines. 48 The closet addict of illusory rooms…… I must type myself remarkable, 49 must redeem my real life with these cut and paste conversations of 50 wannabe intellects. 51 I will seek them out nightly and hang them on my every word. 52 I write myself mysterious…… 53 And I can be contemptuous if I want, 54 I can act freely and not worry of consequence. 55 We are involuntarily accepting in our sub-reality, 56 Because we give birth to the chaos we fear outside of the box, 57 We open the bits of our souls too scared or drained to unsheathe themselves in daylight. 58 We become the impossible transients, escaping corporeal bonds, and transcend. 59 10 o 'clock, night settles unto its haunches. 60 Run my fingers over the miniature glass wall, 61 letting the pixel threshold inebriate me. 62 I sit in sickly blue and push -- 63 with the anticipation of prom night, with the boredom of study hall -- 64 the dull gray box (holding every universe I dare to create) 65 "Start Chatting". 1 Elizabeth sits inside the square…… 2 swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder: 3 luring exotic reconstruction. 4 Arranged outside the public communion, she blinks expectancy to monitor. 5 Has powerpleasure coaxed obsession? 6 The persuasion of command: 7 to shut out mannequins at some nonexistent party 8 if she turns West to trophy herself in the mirror? 9 Between invites to underage thighs and ""Hi how r u?""s 10 She is waiting for someone to solidify, 11 to escape her solipsist''s window 12 And demand her attention…… 13 I am Elizabeth. 14 I am Sybil logins: 15 Beth is delicateandmelancholy 16 Beth is her_laugh_is_infectious 17 Beth is Hard_Cor (ha ha) 18 Beth is lizzacreature 19 I catalogue my emotions in vain name diffusions and declare my occupation as 20 ‘‘shadow''. 21 I am randomly. 22 I am the villain idol, when black and white threaten my sexual borders. 23 And if I chant Sappho to some invisible consort, I am divine. 24 Where I am god, 25 my photographs vouch profundity = Athena reincarnate. 26 Black outlines carve a profile perfect; 27 snapshot decoy swears, Oh, yes, this is me. 28 I give you verse and prose, flawless paragraphs 29 Draft my inches sexy, super-sharp: legs and brains, the ultimate wet dream. 30 I am America''s nongeneration: the insolent contemporaries. 31 I demand my flaws redeemed. 32 So damn my country if it confesses such disbelief: 33 that I am not the twentysomethings'' midnight goddess: 34 Perfect skin and flair, 35 Clever, liberal beauty with golden chestnut hair, 36 who sparkles her angel light only to the fancy of blank typeface people, 37 computer-composed. 38 10 o ‘‘clock, night settles supine over its haunches. 39 I fingerprint the miniature glass wall, 40 letting pixel threshold inebriate me. 41 In sickly blue wash I push -- 42 with the anticipation of prom night, with the boredom of study hall -- 43 the dull gray box (holding every universe I dare to create). 44 My omnipresence attends illusory rooms, 45 and I can act freely without worry of consequence. 46 Chancing the strange certain acceptance of a sub-reality, 47 I may open the bits of my souls too scared or drained to unsheathe themselves in daylight. 48 I watch populations become the impossible transients, escaping corporeal bonds, and transcending. 49 I snare them out nightly and hang them on my every word. 50 God, when I am in their semi-realm, how Elizabeth shines This could have succeeded easily as a simple soliloquy, but the shifts in the poem make it much more. In fact those shifts are for me the single most interesting thing about the piece, so I’m pleased to see them preserved in the re-write. The effect of the first person dialogue interchanging with the third person is to enhance the feeling of shallowness and unreality of the first person speaker and that is presumably part at least of what you were trying to achieve. Here is a person(or is it a society manufactured machine?) A product of her culture and of her age - “America’s non generation” in all its conceit and arrogance - yet too “scared” too “drained” too conditioned to face the reality of the society that birthed and bred her. So she retreats. But it would be cliche and simplistic simply to assume that this poem is a “refuge in cyberspace” - there is more here. The poem represents a kind of interface - a mirror, but, more specifically, the surface of the mirror itself - at times looking outward observing the speaker somewhat objectively and then turning 180 degrees to look at how the speaker sees herself and her environment - and there there is about as much depth as the layer of quicksilver itself! Thus we see the superficiality and shallowness of lines a17 - a27 contrasting with the more acute and searching questions of the opening stanzas a10 - a12 together with the tacit acknowledgement of a “disturbed” mind in line 2. This contrast is further heightened in the increasingly arrogant and egotistical tone as the poem progresses. Lines b26, b31 and b35 for example. For me, the tension created by the alternat views of the “observed” beth and the “observing” beth is what gives the poem its frisson. However in two places at least this analysis seems to break down: In line b35 you revert to the third person yet continue the inward looking dialogue. Also lines b47 and b48 stand out as being more naturally part of the “observed” dialogue - this after all is the truth - the first person writing doesn’t seem to fit as it has the effect of suddenly projecting the speaker as momentarily lucid and therefore uncertain in her illusory dominance. The introduction of this chink of “sanity” or humility might have actually added to the piece were it not for the fact that it is, for me at least, improbable to the point of impossibility. In all other parts of the soliloquy sections the speaker is securely and irredeemably perched on her self and society made pedestal. Having said that I can see some merit in considering a final movement to the “observed” just before the return to the contemptuous arrogance of the closure. A more detailed comparison of the two later revisions: Overall i liked the condensing of the first two stanzas. b3 - seems too complex and “clever” ...preferred a3 b4 - this line didn’t do anything for me. “Blinks expectantly” was almost comic. I preferred a4. b5 - the status of the line as a question doesn’t “fit£ - a5 i really liked b7 and b8 - these lines are ok b9 - seems cumbersome and without the crispness of a13 (the potential cliche of porno prompt i don’t think mattered at all btw) b10,b11,b12 - fine i really missed line a10 especially “to adjust the resolution of the whole world” which i liked a lot. b19 - ok b22 - ok b23 - like this line but for some reason it has more impact for me simply as “ and if i chant Sappho - I am divine” ok you messed around a lot with lines a31 -a38 and on balance i think they are better b25 - this is a mouthful with “photograph” - restore “pictures” (lol), not sure if i like “profundity” or not - but quite liked the quirky = and Athena. b26 - “carve” is better b27 - good b28 -b29 - i preferred “myself” to “ my inches” - its more intimate somehow and gave a little more emphasis to the narcissistic slant b30 - b31 - liked a lot b32 - hated this. Like a41 it’s too political, too obvious and “telly”. The message is there already in the rather derisive sneering tone without spelling it out. b33 - b37 - fine, although i wonder whether you really need “computer-composed” i think it’s a shame we lost lines a48 and a52. B38 - i suppose i can live with this revision - not wild about it though b40 - preferred a61 b41 - better b43 - are the parenthesis really needed? b44 ok but i don’t like b45 at all and i miss A53 which i did like b46 - somehow “chance” “strange” and “certain” close together gave it a kind of confused amateurish feel b47 - b48 - discussed above (nice though) b49 - prefer it without the word “out” - but otherwise nice line b50 - the closure, which is fine and powerful, just seems a bit lost and unconnected at the moment but generally beth i think the revision is heading in the right direction. Thanks again for the read, and apologies for the length of time getting back on this. Philip |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I guess I don't have anything to complain about anymore. I'll only make two points right now: the original version had a certain playfullness that seems to be lacking here -- you use a strong stream of consciousness there: Elizabeth sits inside the square… swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder, and it makes her interesting acts as a ***** but instead becomes engaging to her audience. outwits herself for challenge in the one on one melodramas. She waits outside the public communion, when some immaterial subject abruptly jumps her to sudden introversion: "We'll explore space when we've wasted enough of the planet to not want to be here anymore: evolution is based on societies' necessity and profit." Is it simple powerpleasure to adjust the resolution of the whole world; to shut out mannequins at some nonexistent party with flip of a slim white switch? Between the porno prompts and invites of "Hi how r u?" She is waiting for someone to solidify, to escape her solipsist's window And demand her attention… I am Elizabeth. I am Sybil logins: --This delivers a punch that I didn't get in the second version (it may be that this is the second time I've read it so take that with a grain of salt). --Still, whereas I found the movement mesmerizing in the first poem (Where is she going to go next?), this seems to have evolved into an angry poem, even a rant. I think you can lighten that a bit. --Second, I thought the last part was strong in both versions but I liked the first one better. 'Start chatting' creates a bond between people whereas here you focus on 'Elizabeth' -- which doesn't have to be you of course. --Ironically, you seem to have moved in the exact direction as Whitman again. His orignal poetry (original Leaves of Grass) worked to bring people together but he eventually shifted into a kind of messianic mode. You have also moved the focus more to yourself here -- it seems to me. I like the first version better because I think it's more fun to read. Just an opinion, Brad |
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PoetryNest Junior Member
since 2000-11-08
Posts 46Orlando, FL. 32703 |
Worked for me, strong. Enjoyed this very much ! Cynthia (A Dove) Proctor |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Humm. Having read brad's comments i guess he pinpoints what was bothering me about the second version, the tone does indeed seems to have lost some of the playfulness of the first draft - epitomised by the different approaches to the closure where, in the first, the reader is left with a final impression bordering on the comic, whereas, in the second, the tone is egotistically sarcastically disparaging. they very nearly become two completely different poems, but I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with that. looking back at my revisions i think that almost unconsciously i was replacing in the second version some of the lighter moments of the first to try and create a hybrid somewhere between the two. the only thing I'm sure of any more is that i like the "serious" rather than the "flippant" ending, and i think it follows from that that I perhaps prefer the self-centred "angry" version overall. but i reserved the right to change my mind tomorrow..lol P |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
Sorry Philip, you are not allowed to be wishy washy. We have to have someone around here remain steadfast, and I think you were elected long ago. Jamie Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil. "Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely". |
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