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playing goddess (revised)
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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playing goddess (revised) |
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Elizabeth Cor Senior Member
since 2000-10-13
Posts 879Over the river and through the woods 
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Elizabeth sits inside the square… swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder, and it makes her interesting acts as a ***** but instead becomes engaging to her audience. outwits herself for challenge in the one on one melodramas. She waits outside the public communion, when some immaterial subject abruptly jumps her to sudden introversion: "We'll explore space when we've wasted enough of the planet to not want to be here anymore: evolution is based on societies' necessity and profit." Is it simple powerpleasure to adjust the resolution of the whole world; to shut out mannequins at some nonexistent party with flip of a slim white switch? Between the porno prompts and invites of "Hi how r u?" She is waiting for someone to solidify, to escape her solipsist's window And demand her attention… I am Elizabeth. I am Sybil logins: Beth is delicateandmelancholy Beth is her_laugh_is_infectious Beth is Hard_Cor (ha ha) Beth is lizzacreature I post my emotions with vain name exemptures and declare my occupation as 'shadow'. I am randomly. I am the new age astronaut who guides her fingers over the ascent of inter-space - body embedded in planetskin. I am the villain idol, when black and white threaten my sexual borders. And if I chant Sappho to some invisible consort, I am divine. Where I am god, my pictures alter soft candle light, pedestal my prettiest poses. Black outlines a perfect profile and everything tells you, Oh, yes, this is me. I give you poetry and prose, the perfect paragraphs, share my mundane philosophies with final impeccable words. I draft myself sexy, super-sharp: legs and brains, the ultimate wet dream. As the Americanized, as the young, I am invincible, fantastic, and should be loved for what I am So **** the World for its misunderstanding, for their disbelieving that I am the twentysomethings' midnight goddess: Perfect skin and flair, Clever, liberal beauty with golden chestnut hair, who sparkles her angel light only to the fancy of blank typeface people, computer-composed. God, when I am in their semi-realm, how Elizabeth shines. The closet addict of illusory rooms… I must type myself remarkable, must redeem my real life with these cut and paste conversations of wannabe intellects. I will seek them out nightly and hang them on my every word. I write myself mysterious… And I can be contemptuous if I want, I can act freely and not worry of consequence. We are involuntarily accepting in our sub-reality, Because we give birth to the chaos we fear outside of the box, We open the bits of our souls too scared or drained to unsheathe themselves in daylight. We become the impossible transients, escaping corporeal bonds, and transcend. 10 o 'clock, night settles unto its haunches. Run my fingers over the miniature glass wall, letting the pixel threshold inebriate me. I sit in sickly blue and push -- with the anticipation of prom night, with the boredom of study hall -- the dull gray box (holding every universe I dare to create) "Start Chatting". |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
well, miss beth... i have several things to say about this... first, and AGAIN!!!!, to meet you here is fabulous because you are one fine Poet and every single piece i've read from you has blown me out of the water... now, about this one... dammit!! i WISH i wrote this... there's so much in here and i think it's sorta ironic that i just wrote a piece myself about the life in the box last night and posted it here (hell, that's not ironic, now is it? lol... being that this is where we are... *g)... but it had some of the same anger and reflections on the matter and i even used the word "demigod"... rofl... having not read yours yet... i'm not into analysis (though my shrink would disagree), because i'm not too good at editing other people's poetry but i can give an overall view of my take on it and how it flows, etc.... this is a piece which needs to be read outloud... which i'm sure you're aware of.. and i'd love to hear you scream it out because this one begs to be heard... i think you deleted some of the flow of it.. or, shall i say, the revised piece here is not as powerful as the original ... and sometimes we lose something when we edit too much... i'd like to see you go back to the original and pull from it, see what you took out, see the order of lines... read both outloud to your bathroom mirror if you have to (better yet, of course, there ARE real people out there and if you find a few at a poetry reading or something, get up and try both out)... anyway, pull some of the images and lines that you've cut out and put them back in... or... just leave the original as is... because who said it's too long? i bet you people tell you that all that time.. i know they tell me to cut/chop/axe it... but if you ax me.. whoops.. if you ask me, i'd say, long is fine... let it flow, girl, yell your heart and tell the world because we need to hear what you have to say... i'm in advertising, and we always say, "less is more" and "white space is everything" and in certain instances (many) this also applies to poetry because it's not what you see, often, that matters, it's what you don't... and it's not what you say that matters, necessary, it's what you imply... but not in this piece... this is a rant... and long-wind it, lady, because there's so much that needs to be said and if you don't say it, maybe nobody else will... y'know??? that's it... have a great day go do your nails or something... lol... *wink* keep this voice going... it's a good one!!! Lo que eres hable tan fuerte que no oigo lo que tu dices- |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Well Beth, I am indeed not the least bit qualified to analyze this. . . I shall leave that to others. . . But I do agree with Doreen when she says that it is missing some of the flow. . . I read them both. . . out loud. . . I like to do that a lot. . . and the first one is definitely much more powerful. . . it has more "attitude" (in a good way. . . you know, you can never say that without people getting a negative picture. . . attitude can be a good thing too!!) It's more of a rant than this one is. . . and again, like Doreen said. . . sometimes, you just have to let it all out. . . I love that you use yourself in the poem. . . it makes it more real. . . I feel that I know much more about you as a person from reading this. . . it's like a window into your personality. . . quote: This is my favorite part. . . I have a feeling that this is the essence of you. . . and it's right where it needs to be. . . in the center of the poem. . . the center of the poem, the center of you. . . I can see (or rather, hear) this being read at a poetry reading. . . it would be a good one to do. . . you might want to try to do that. . . I bet that you'd get a good response. . . Okay, that's all. . . I really do enjoy your writing and thank you for the chance to go a little more in-depth with you here. . .  ------------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
An amazing piece of work. I disagree with both Sven and Doreen above. The second version is much stronger. The voice is powerful and strong, the diction -- diverse, the syntax could use some work here and there -- "I am randomly" -- but overall works very well. Drop the profanity (or the asterisks) you're pushing there (I don't care if it's what you really said, profanity in poetry has become just another cliche in my book). The strength here is your own self-consciousness, daring but never diving into self-pity or self-confusion, or random anger (think the diaries of Sylvia Plath). I began reading and thought Ginsberg but now I see Whitman (huge jump). It's interesting that the above two saw it as a rant poem -- I thought there was too much here for it to be that simple. Dare I say we may have the first cyber-space Whitman coming of age here? I wasn't too fond of the 'philosophy' but then you make that beautiful move (again, I couldn't detect any sense of defensiveness) of calling it all banal -- reminded me of Bellow there. Keep it coming (but drop the profanity), Are you really a teen? Brad PS Sven, if you ever again use 'essence' to refer to one passage, one aspect, of a poem anywhere near where I'm going to be, get those boxing gloves on, because we're going to rumble.  |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
sheesh Beth ..i'm sorry ..just noticed this i must have been asleep today (i nearly am now anyway) .......sorry for all the banal posts in Open ~blush~ and now you're here i see brad et al have already been bowled over by you .....or the poem.. gratifying to see brad liked it - i'm obviously beginning to partially understand him ...i knew he would...all i can say right now is that its nearly midnight here, i'm half asleep, but i still have shivers up my spine from reading this - and indeed your other two posts in Open ... where have you come from? ...lol later philip |
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Elizabeth Cor Senior Member
since 2000-10-13
Posts 879Over the river and through the woods |
Thank you all for your comments. Terribly glad I posted here: these suggestions and observations will be taken into strict consideration when I make my revisions. Okay, are we ready? This reply is going to be part cut and paste from comments I made in the Open forums, part direct responses (As in, “ Brad, I think this”), and part random thoughts on the piece meshed with muddled tangents about replies and everything else. Above all else, it will be a structure vacant, grammar annihilating mess with no apparent direction or consideration for punctuation. I also tend to sound a little demanding when I’m just responding without forethought. So please be patient with me , and understand that I hold the highest respect for everyone mentioned, and appreciate your criticism more than I can explain.WARNING! May be painful to anal-retentive persons who hold a high respect for the beauty of the English language, and abhor the sight of its abuse and/or mishandling. First of all, this piece seems to come off as a ‘rant’ of anger or frustration or some other motivator, but it is actually, simply “my view of myself from a removed point of view”. Speaking of this: The whole f*ck society splurge was a sarcastic jab at young American ideals (E.G. the impossible arrogance of young persons preteen to oh, about 23, ESPECIALY Americans of this age) although with very slight undertones of frustration at misrepresentation. And in the first poem, the anger expressed at the ‘demigod’ is a little complicated. It can be condensed into: If YOU think I’m so special, why doesn’t anyone ELSE? Which although had relation to the foremost theme, shifted the focus unto THAT situation instead of the principal subject (and therefore, I believed, interrupted the poem in a way). This may be why a few of you thought this piece more “powerful” because the rage existing in that stanza enhanced the other apparent rage in following stanzas. I agree with Brad about editing the profanity (although I don’t considerate it cliché unless someone is using it simply as a means of adding force to a verse). Keep in mind this is only the second draft (I’m still editing something that was simply an illegible gush from my hands) and the ‘gush’ is still intact. I wanted opinions of this is raw form first, to see where I should take it. Also for Brad: “…the diction and the syntax could use some work here and there.” This is where I would slap my forehead and say ‘duh!’. I’m aware of the problems in this area, and I promise that when I get close to a final composition that I will be most articulate. (However, ‘I am randomly’ stays , the enamel-pealing affect was put there on purpose.) I will try reading this out loud, and see if any special revising needs to be done. Comments to Individuals: Doreen, ALWAYS a pleasure to hear from you. May I echo? To meet you here is fabulous because you are one fine Poet and every single piece I've read from you has blown me out of the water. I'm not into analysis (though my shrink would disagree), because I'm not too good at editing other people's poetry but I can give an overall view of my take on it and how it flows, etc. (all straight from my head). I ALWAYS reread original and modified versions over and over again, adding and retouching, playing with content, lines, and flow. If a line ends up on the cutting room floor, so to speak, that doesn’t mean it’s lost forever. On the contrary, I keep everything I write (it’s almost disgusting) and often scan through my pages of ‘snippets’ when I’m at a loss for words. The paragraph I edited out will undoubtedly end up spurring an entirely new poem… Or perhaps I will reform it and snap it back into place into “goddess”. Only time, mood, and weather will tell. When this has become a more conclusive creation I will certainly leave it out for the Passions jackals .I played with my dog instead of doing my nails, is that okay? And toasts to our demigods (or to the demoralizing of them, whichever is appropriate  ).Brad, The only thing that bothered me about any of the comments was this: “I wasn't too fond of the 'philosophy'.” Reasons why: You didn’t explain yourself a bit, and therefore I had no clue what the actual 'philosophy' is. I really wasn’t aware I presented one here ( infact, I read through the poem trying to find a line with the word philosophy in it, incase it was word usage you were referring to!) Then I found this bit: We are involuntarily accepting in our sub-reality, Because we give birth to the chaos we fear outside of the box, We open the bits of our souls too scared or drained to unsheathe themselves in daylight. We become the impossible transients, escaping corporeal bonds, and transcend I wouldn’t exactly call this a ‘philosophy’. It’s just a verbose way of saying, “when we don’t have to present anything except a bit of type, we feel free to make up parts of ourselves (or whole NEW selves), or to empower latent, perhaps embarrassing, parts.” … without the fear of tangible repercussion. SO if I need to reword this, let me know, if I need to excise this bit, let me know, and if I need to do anything ELSE to improve, let me know (I think you get the picture ).I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU COMPARED ME TO WHITMAN! I don’t know if I should feel flattered or blasphemous! Either way I think I’ll hide this comment back in my self-denial closet and try to loosen the breath from my throat. Sven, Personally, I don’t think anyone is qualified to do analysis, so I admire all efforts . As far as missing the ‘flow’, note the above novella. But I will try reading this out loud. OH, and THANK YOU for letting me know how the third person, first person transition worked. EXACTLY the effect I wanted. And there are many, many open mike nights at local cafes in my city; I’ll definitely take this one to my next reading… Thank you for your commendation, and you are so welcome. Philip, ~shakes head~ Well there you are! Where did I come from? Well, the FBI is still trying to figure it out . Don’t jeopardize my safety, k?~ Beth P.S. I’m not a teen, but I’m also not far off: 21. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
I don't post in here often... but I read a lot and wanted to make a comment... well, two. 1 - Brad thinks EVERTHING is philosophical! LOL 2 - too young for you Philip! hahahaha ok, leaving... C |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Bye bye chris yes, "cute", sure - i won't lie , however i only have eyes for the poetry.....Hi beth it’s not often someone posts a trio of such excellence in their Passions debut so i guess there is maybe a tendency to overreact in the excitement of it all - i sure hope brad is right, and indeed i do see some whitmanesque type sections in this which ought to mean that i don’t like it much because I’m not a huge fan of whitman - yet i DO like it. I think partially this is because of the refreshingly new, incisive and, above all, accurate way in which you deal with an area that inevitably (in this medium) gets almost as much coverage as “lurve poetry” ..lol..For me it’s kinda of like somebody wrote a love poem which amid the morass that we are buried in suddenly shines like the first sonnet Shakespeare wrote .. ok ok .maybe thats a little over the top but you get the picture ... This succeeds primarily because it takes a theme and a message which we can all easily relate to but presents it in a compelling and interesting way .....I agree with brad btw about the superiority of the revision. In my recent reply to doreens poem i touched on perhaps the most fascinating (for me) aspect of the poem, the switches (or as brad calls them the moves), from person to person which i see as being resolved in the one line: “God, when I am in their semi-realm, how Elizabeth shines.” As i said to doreen the use of ““I”” and ““elizabeth” in this line hits us with a crisis of identity that has been more than hinted at throughout your poem and resolves into one short expression made more powerful by the fact that the line is isolated as a single stanza - the only place in the poem where you do this. Perhaps my only serious reservation about the whole piece lies in the fact that i really do read that line as a final resolution ...a natural closure if you like. So much so that, despite the interest in the last two stanzas, I’m kind of tempted to suggest that the poem should be ended with “Elizabeth shines”....... Linked to this is my dislike of what i see as the unnecessary obviousness of the current closure “start chatting”..... superfluous don’t you think? Anyway those are the important points ..now lets start at the top: brads comments about philosophy are i think maybe aimed at the first stanza ...... (philosophy in a wide sense) ....... in contrast i think he likes the opening of the third stanza a lot.... I think that the third person detachment of the opening stanzas very effectively “sets up” the shift to first person in the third .....there is something spookily powerful about the lines : “I am Elizabeth. I am Sybil logins:” which is enhanced for some reason by the background of the opening....... At the back of my mind as i read those lines i hear the echo of: “I am the living God the Lord, the giver of life” this meshes well i think with your expressed desire to present an ironic picture of the arrogance of american youth, and at the same time momentarily raises the subconscious expectations of the reader to a “higher” level ......only to be dashed by the immediate switch in person again with: “Beth is delicateandmelancholy Beth is her_laugh_is_infectious Beth is Hard_Cor (ha ha) Beth is lizzacreature” And what I perceive to be a rapid “descent” from “divinity” to almost “animal” - lizzacreature, - in the space of 4 lines .. ie the names becoming progressively more materialistic and carnal as the stanza proceeds. “Elizabeth sits inside the square…… swaps emotions with the ease of a personality disorder, and it makes her interesting acts as a ***** but instead becomes engaging to her audience. outwits herself for challenge in the one on one melodramas. She waits outside the public communion, when some” >>> loved this opening especially the first two lines which just grabbed me immaterial subject abruptly >>> found this a bit clunky jumps her to sudden introversion: "We'll explore space when we've wasted enough of the planet to not want to be here anymore: evolution is based on societies' necessity and profit." >>> this is maybe the bit brad was referring to? ...whatever ...... I’m in two minds about it .. maybe in danger of being a little “too clever” ...but the idea is good ...just not sure about the words! Is it simple powerpleasure to adjust the resolution of the whole world; to shut out mannequins at some nonexistent party with flip of a slim white switch? Between the porno prompts and invites of "Hi how r u?" >>> this is the closest yet to the sort of stuff we see everywhere She is waiting for someone to solidify, to escape her solipsist's window And demand her attention…… >>> i think though that these three line more than redeem the other three I am Elizabeth. I am Sybil logins: Beth is delicateandmelancholy Beth is her_laugh_is_infectious Beth is Hard_Cor (ha ha) Beth is lizzacreature >>> love it I post my emotions with vain name exemptures and declare my occupation as 'shadow'. >>>“Exemptures”??? Things that are exempt?? A new word or just me? >>> loved the shadow thing I am randomly. >>> ok ok...so it’s “not english” ...... but then this is not a real place, this is confusion contradiction randomness this is am identity crisis a collision ....... i question marked - but then i question marked the whole poem ..... this adds to it i think. I am the new age astronaut who guides her fingers over the ascent of inter-space - body embedded in planetskin. >>> disappointing .......mundane ...done before ...you can do better than this beth I am the villain idol, when black and white threaten my sexual borders. And if I chant Sappho to some invisible consort, I am divine. >>> yes yes yes ...... excellent excellent writing Where I am god, >>> throw-back to “i am Elizabeth”etc ...... liked it a lot my pictures alter soft candle light, pedestal my prettiest poses. Black outlines a perfect profile and everything tells you, Oh, yes, this is me. I give you poetry and prose, the perfect paragraphs, share my mundane philosophies with final impeccable words. >>> jury still out on this ........ the flurry of alliteration at first went past me because you did it quite well but after several re-readings i started to get kinda annoyed by it.....lol..... still it MUST be ok becoz brad didnt comment and he has a pathological (and illogical) hatred of alliteration.......heh I draft myself sexy, super-sharp: legs and brains, the ultimate wet dream. >>> i think you get away with the “wet dream” cliche because the line as a whole is ok As the Americanized, as the young, I am invincible, fantastic, and should be loved for what I am So **** the World for its misunderstanding, >> this is bordering on the obvious ... and the last line is definitely cliche ..and i don’t just mean the profanity ...... I know what you may say - the very obviousness and banality is part of the presentation of the obviousness and banality of young society ...... yet i still feel there has got to be a better way to do this... for their disbelieving that I am the twentysomethings' midnight goddess: Perfect skin and flair, Clever, liberal beauty with golden chestnut hair, who sparkles her angel light only to the fancy of blank typeface people, computer-composed. God, when I am in their semi-realm, how Elizabeth shines. >>> ok ...i thought this was “awesome” ..... i almost stopped reading here .....lol The closet addict of illusory rooms…… I must type myself remarkable,must redeem my real life with these cut and paste conversations of wannabe intellects. >>> ok ..from anyone else I’d be saying GREAT ..yeah its ok...lol I will seek them out nightly and hang them on my every word. >>> a really good line ..nice allusion etc.. I write myself mysterious…… And I can be contemptuous if I want, I can act freely and not worry of consequence. We are involuntarily accepting in our sub-reality, Because we give birth to the chaos we fear outside of the box, We open the bits of our souls too scared or drained to unsheathe themselves in daylight. We become the impossible transients, escaping corporeal bonds, and transcend. >>> starting to get a mite preachy - i don’t know whether the switch back to “we” really helps here ...in fact on reflection i don’t like it 10 o 'clock, night settles unto its haunches. >>> unto? .....ugh Run my fingers over the miniature glass wall, letting the pixel threshold inebriate me. I sit in sickly blue and push -- with the anticipation of prom night, with the boredom of study hall -- the dull gray box (holding every universe I dare to create) "Start Chatting". >>> “with the anticipation of prom night, with the boredom of study hall” very nicely put .....incisive accuracy !!! >>> sigh .....its good ...but i still think too “overt” ...I’m still hearing echoes of “liz shines” ..lol ok beth I’ve done my “worst” on this. As a general comment though I’d just like to emphasise that this poem is up there with the very best I’ve read here in passions a joy to see so much talent at the top of CA right now look at the line up: doreen, beth, jm, kamla, mia and (one guy!!!) Yesh... !!! thanks philip [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 10-22-2000).] |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Hello Elizabeth: I read this over the weekend but computer problems prevented me from commenting then. Tonight time constraints prevent me from spending much time on a reply and I apologize for this ahead of time. I agree with much has been said and, all in all, I think this is a very strong poem. I agree with Brad on the profanity issue but for slightly different reasons. I don't see it as a matter of cliche or even moral high-ground but, rather, as a matter of style. I find that profanity distracting. Such words draw attention to themselves without being very descriptive and, as a result, have the same effect on me as a glaringly bad adjective, noun or verb. I know, I know. The second use (I can see right through those asterices) conveys the sense of haughty strength better than any fill-in the blank euphemism but I'll exercise my right to be inconsistent on this point. I still think it harms the poem more than it helps it. I admire the strength in which your theme progresses and I think you've put together some excellent lines. The last stanza strikes a strong contrast to the previous lines ... it introduces the question, "Who is really in control here?" and I found this satisfying. Gotta go for now. Thanks for an enjoyable read. Hope to see more soon. Jim |
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Elizabeth Cor Senior Member
since 2000-10-13
Posts 879Over the river and through the woods |
Notes on the second revision: Taking most comments into consideration, I did a little nip and tucking. When I read over this piece it still doesn't strike me as being "right"... everyone here being some form of poet you must know what I'm talking about. I'm still just playing, and I'm not even sure that the second reconstruction is, indeed, better than the first. Comments when you get a chance... everyone has spent so much time here already and I wouldn't want to burn you out . Besides, I'll be on vacation until next Wednesday (so it won't matter if ya'll ignore me ). Thanks soooooo much!~ Beth I hate quotations. Tell me what you know. |
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