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Critical Analysis #1
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Empirical
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Empirical |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
He had those quizzing, Science eyes. I knew he wouldnt see unless he saw. So carefully and clear I spelled it out yet he returned a look that burned with doubt He had those patient, Science ears But I knew he wouldnt hear unless he heard. So I spoke it - plainly sounded out And yet he echoed silence charged with doubt He had that detailed, Science mouth Whose lips I simply kissed. And finally empirical with nothing left to calculate He let his color bar-graphs slip, surrendered to emotion (and my lips) Do I contradict myself? Very well then . . . . I contradict myself; I am large . . . . I contain multitudes. -Papa Walt |
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| © Copyright 2000 Elyse Wilcock - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Tim Gouldthorp Member
since 2000-01-03
Posts 170 |
Elyse, Let him who has ears listen - thus speaks The Koran. I like this poem. At the risk of sounding too empirical (like the lucky science boffin you describe)I have a suggestion. Perhaps make the syllable counts per line in the first 2 stanzas exactly parrallel(between the stanzas I mean, not within them). This would provide a structure (perhaps echoing the empirical consciousness) while at the same time highlight the 'non-empiracal' changes in meter. Of course, after the first 2 stanzas the empiricism dissolves, so of course so can this structure. I like the last line as well. -Tim |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Elyse, I just enjoyed it. Interestingly, at first I thought I agreed with Tim about balancing the meter of the first 2 stanzas. After reading a few times, I think I like the small change you make to the second stanza. Empirical essentially means "determined by repeated observations." The individual obversations commonly do vary slightly one to another so I think your variance is appropriate. Well, as I read this now it begins to sound like a weak argument, somewhat rambling. Guess it's just too early to make much sense  Technically, in line 4, I think clear should be clearly. But that really mucks up the rhythm and it is all but unnoticeable so don't change it.  Thanks, Pete |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
thanx guys! i wasnt too sure i liked it when i read it the second time, but perhaps im chaniging my mind yet again tim - im glad you dug the last line. i wasnt sure that was gonna work. hmmm, it definitely is worth playing with, changing the syllables i mean. ill see how it comes out. pete - yeah, i know, shame on me and my bad grammar. but i thought i could sneak it in.  oh, and what i understood empirical to mean was something like "simplest form". you know, like Empirical Formulas in Chem. class. its cool that it means what you said too, since it seems to work with what i wrote. how strange! no, uh, i mean, i knew that all along, and so, um, yeah. luv Elyse |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Right Elyse, of course I knew all along that you knew that all along Pete |
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Forrest Cain Member
since 2000-04-21
Posts 306Chas.,W.V. USA |
Elyse, I thought love was a right brain function, now your telling me left. Liked your poem, as always. Hey, " quizzing science eyes" -this wasn't the teacher was it? forrest [This message has been edited by Forrest Cain (edited 07-20-2000).] |
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eldridgejackson Member
since 2000-04-30
Posts 91 |
I enjoyed the poem. Men have to be told. Women seem to want us guys to be perceptive and hear see feel on our own but alas we don't unless we train ourselves it is not a natural function. What I like about your poem is the truth is speaks. Men surrender to their emotions when they can't explain why. Great poem James |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
thanx guys! im glad to see you back. i was wondering what had happened to the Cain Clan haha forrest. i did love my Bio teacher last year, but not like that. he was the sweetest, softest, most wonderful person. Just a truly good man. but he didnt have those eyes at all. his were warm, and loving. ill miss him (sniff sniff) james - i have noticed that about you people. you're just no good at nuance. hrumph. luv Elyse |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Elyse, I enjoyed reading this poem but the repetition and the use of caps for Science jarred slightly. I was just wondering if this could be done more subtly (this is just a thought of course). Men and women and nuance? God, is that a debate waiting to happen. You call it nuance, I call it a woman's need for a man to be telepathic. Brad |
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YeshuJah Malikk Member
since 2000-06-29
Posts 263 |
I very much liked the idea behind this poem, but kept getting tripped up by the repetitions of hearing but not hearing etc.. I think you could say this without saying it.. like only you can. I'll be looking without looking for the re-write. |
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kris_aka_warmhrt Junior Member
since 2000-07-25
Posts 15 |
Hi Elyse, I very much liked the concept behind this, but agree that a rewrite will add even more to it. Isn't it sad that men have to be told...we possess an ability to read emotions, and I think they do too, if they would only open up to it. Do they choose not to use that part of themselves, or are they just unaware of it? Hmmmmmmmm... Kris |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
hi everyone! ill see what i can do with the reps. no promises brad - we dont want you to read our minds, we just want you to pay attention. noone likes the way i do capital letters. grrr. it seems im always confusing people with them. ah well. yeshujah - aww, thanx for the vote of confidence. ill see what i can do kris - i know! they are so dense. why is it that some girl can be flirting with a guy so hard, all her friends can tell and think she's hurling herself at him, and they never even notice? huh??? boys?? luv Elyse |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Okay, here's what happened. I had a few drinks (honest to god, just a few -- three to be exact). I wanted to go home early. I jump on a bus, the right numbered bus by the way and start reading Whitman. The next thing I know, the bus driver is telling me to get off -- I don't know where I am; I tell him where I want to go; he tells me to get on another bus (and points), same number, same style, so I do it. I start reading Whitman again. The next thing I know I'm in an old stomping ground again (farther from home than when I began), so I have two more drinks, say hi to some old buddies, and buy some food that I know my wife likes (only in that area), jump into a taxi and, well, it's dark now, but still thinking about Whitman. The next thing I know the taxi driver rams into another driver. No mager damage (this is Korea so please understand this is something they just do) but the two drivers start arguing about who's fault it was. I get angry. I leave the taxi, the taxi driver waves me back in, I get in, the other driver continues to argue (remember, we're talking Korea). I leave again and try to find a taxi. An hour after that an two taxis later, I finally get home. Is my wife happy to see me? --mildly Is she angry? --yes Does she like the food? --she doesn't eat it. Does she go to sleep? Yes. I think she's pregnant. So, what am I supposed to do? I was reading Whitman for Christ's sake. Brad |
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pegasus111 Member Elite
since 2000-07-27
Posts 2219ocala, fl, usa |
I liked what you did with this piece..and how you did it..I must admit the caps do appear as somewhat overkill..sorry, just an opinion..as a former science teacher..I can relate to this very well. < !signature-->the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and many miles to go before I sleep...Frost [This message has been edited by pegasus111 (edited 07-27-2000).] |
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Elyse Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414Apex (think raleigh) NC |
dios mio! ok brad, i think i can help you understand your wife's reaction and perhaps help you figure what you should do. Is my wife happy to see me? --mildly she's probably very glad to see you, releived some horrible accident hasnt befallen you. but she's also angry at you for putting her through that kind of stress and worry. im sure she's thinking "why didnt he call? he had time enough to stop for food, you would think they would have a phone there" she doesnt eat the food, a) because she's lost her appetite from worry b) because she's allowing part of her anger to get transferred to the actual food c) she's just not hungry or not in the mood. if i had to guess, i would think it a mix between a and b. she goes to sleep a) because she's exhausted b) she doesnt want to deal with it right then. as far as i can tell, that's how i judge her reactions. yeah, you should have called. im sure you just didnt think about it. i think though, had you called, everything woulda been cool. she wouldnt (and im sure doesnt) blame you for getting lost on the busses, and at least she would have known. what do i suggest? hard to say. maybe if you apologize for not calling, you didnt mean to make her worry, tell her you love her, and say something incredibly sweet that draws a connection between her and your absorption in the poetry, it'll work out. i hope i helped -- but i certainly dont know everything, and i am only able to give an opinion from the outside. on the pregnancy thing - i would try not to let that enter into this issue. you dont want to mix those emotions. good luck, Elyse |
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