Till Stars Grow Old.... (any sonnet writers please help)

How to Join	Member's Area	Private Library	Search	Sanctuary		Login
Main Forums	Discussion	Tech Talk	Mature Content	Archives	A home without a wall, Our haven without ends, A circle we all call Our Family of Friends!

Parker
Member Elite

since 2000-01-06

Posts 3129
ON

0 posted 2000-06-21 02:52 PM

I want to submit this to be voted for the book, any
suggestions. Its in Shakespearian sonnet format as far as I know, and I want it to have more of an old style format to fit with that.

1) I know there's a near rhyme in v3 2nd 4th line,
or it name not rhyme at all but, so far my own rewrite to keep the last line don't work.
2)also I've been told the last line of v3 negates
the meaning, but it seems obvious to me that that is
the meaning or view of a persons own heart without love.

So any sonnet people please give me any suggestions.

Parker

Till Stars Grow Old

Love me, today, for now I breathe and live,
And young though hardly without pain or ache;
I’ve waited, and for you this heart I give,
Who knows of morn, my breath this Earth may take?

In you the song of life is new to sing,
But know that life may run to moment's end,
And without bliss, that at your door does ring,
A sad refrain will bleed this lover's pen;

And I may leave this life a hollowed soul,
Without your kiss of bliss upon my lips;
So dust may be this lovers final toll,
An empty heart that I would never miss;

But true to you am I till stars grow old,
To hear your vow before my blood goes cold

James Parker Haley (C)2000

[This message has been edited by Haleyja (edited 06-21-2000).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite

since 1999-11-03

Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

1 posted 2000-06-21 04:30 PM

Hi Parker,

First, let me say that this is really a beautiful sonnet. I really enjoyed it and I admit to being somewhat of a sonnet junkie. I don't think we have met yet although I see you have been around a while. I guess I have been gone for a while so it's my fault.

Now, I don't claim to be a sonnet writer but here are my observations. Of course, this is all JMHO and you know what that might be worth.

1) It is, as you stated a Shakespearian sonnet. I'm not sure what you mean by "more of an old style format" unless maybe archaic language (thee and thou and such). Ordinarily most seem to prefer modern language and I agree in most cases. Besides, your language here is quite good as is.

2) On terminology (a minor point for sure) the sections of a Shakespearian sonnet are usually referred to as 1st, 2nd and 3rd quatrain and closing couplet rather than stanzas or verses.

3) You mentioned the near-rhyme in the 3rd quatrain. I think you're right about it being pretty far off, and for a sonnet it may not even be considered a rhyme at all. It seems to me that the problem you have is in ending line 10 with lips, a hard word to rhyme, as you already know. I think you can rearrange that line to end with kiss of bliss, thus making your rhyme perfect, without adversly affecting the meaning. Just as a suggestion,

   Upon my lips to never feel your kiss;

4) The use of never in line 12 does seem, as you say, to negate the intended meaning. I can't say for sure on that but it just seems to stand out as awkward when reading. Maybe Jenni will come along and add some help here.

5) With a few acceptable variations (which must be applied with care) the sonnet is usually written in iambic pentameter. You do have the correct number of syllables in each line and with a little forcing, it can be read as such. Some of your lines, when read more naturally, miss the mark a little, perhaps too much.

The first line for example reads to me as
   LOVE me to | DAY for | NOW i | BREATHE  and | LIVE
I know you can argue that it should be read "love ME" and that even nakes sense. But each time I read, it always comes out "LOVE me" instead. If you want to keep the same words and meaning but emphasize me, you can cause that by reordering the words possible like:
   Today love me, for now I breathe and live,
BTW, emphasizing me seems to connote "me rather than someone else" whereas emphasizing love seems to connote "love me rather than don't love me". Does that make any sense?

In line 2 and again in line 7, you use without in a position where it must be read as WITHout rather than the usual withOUT. Line 2 could be rewritten as
   And young though hardly with not pain or ache;
although that's not much easier to read as with and not seem to need about the same stress. The same sort of thing applies to line 7. A better solution wuold be the thesaurus to find a substitute for without.

6) Line 7 has another small problem. Having been there before, it looks to me like you had to insert does to be able to use ring instead of the more appropriate rings at the end of the line. Since the rest of the poem is notably unforced, this one stands out too much. Perhaps you can find a more subtle way to make this work.

7) I don't see the need for the apostrophe in hollow'd. I would spell it out, hollowed. No one will mistakenly mispronounce that with 3 syllables instead of the 2 you intended. At least I don't think so.

8) Finally one last minor point and this really is a personal preference. In line 13, I would reverse "I am" to "am I".

   But true to you am I till stars grow old,

Reversing the subject and verb serves to emphasize the statement, which I think you want here. It also allows the reader to stress I instead of am, also a good thing, in my opinion.

Well, sorry to ramble on so over your work of art. I only did so because I truly like this one and think it can be made even better, not necessarily by my suggestions though. And these are all JMHO so feel free to use or ignore any and all as you see fit.

Thanks for a great read.

Pete

[This message has been edited by Not A Poet (edited 06-21-2000).]

jenni
Member

since 1999-09-11

Posts 478
Washington D.C.

2 posted 2000-06-21 05:16 PM

parker--

on the technical side, it's very good.  i like your opening line with the trochees "love me, today," before switching to iambs; that's a nice way to begin this one, i thought.

the near rhyme in lips/miss isn't so bad, i thought.

one thing that really bothered me, though, was line 2, "and young though hardly without pain or ache."  i think you are missing a verb there, "i AM young".  as it is, in the first two lines you're saying "now i breathe and live and young," which simply doesn't make any sense.  i don't know, this really leapt out at me.  i don't see any easy way to fix it without extensive rewriting of at least the second line, if not both the first and second lines, so i'll leave that up to you.

i think in a couple of places you use filler words, especially the conjunction "and," even when you're not really joining two thoughts or clauses; it seems like you're doing this to make the content fit the meter.  while you don't really have any awkward lines, i still get the feeling that this piece could be improved if you didn't let yourself fall into a wordiness just for the sake of giving the piece an "old" feeling.  in the end, i guess it's just a stylistic matter, but there ya go.

two other things: i don't think you need the apostrophe in "hollowed," it's still a two syllable word.  i do think you need an apostrophe in "lover's", though, in line 11.

line 12 is somewhat at odds with the speaker being forever true, but i don't think it negates the whole poem.  having an empty heart may also be a little at odds with the speaker giving his/her heart in line 3, but i see what you're saying, i think.

nice work overall, in my opinion.  good luck!

jenni

Parker
Member Elite

since 2000-01-06

Posts 3129
ON

3 posted 2000-06-21 06:53 PM

Pete and Jenni, thanks for the input, gives me lots to think about. You two were very kind in your approach, thats why I like passions so much. I'm not very technical in the terminology of poetry, so if I hit anything good I think its just luck.
Thanks again, homework.... just love homework.

Parker

	⇧ top of page ⇧
All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format.