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Critical Analysis #1
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Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada

0 posted 2000-05-24 05:05 AM


Who do Gods worship
from their kingdom’d clouds aloft,
aloof,
high above prayers and those that say them?
Who comforts them through existence,
blankets them,
believes in them
when they doubt what they have created,
when the created doubt them?
Who eases the burden  
of kneeling billions
all bleeding whispers of
who has forgotten the broken?

Who do they beg?

If beyond their powers,
immense unanswerable
specks of light
brightly twinkle the taunt
“you shall never reach our start”,
who gives them hope to stay the distance
and persevere in ignorance?

My curious Gods
your answers are kept
in books between pews
written by those
who have forgotten
they too
have the power to create.


© Copyright 2000 Trevor Davis - All Rights Reserved
Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
1 posted 2000-05-24 05:28 AM


We are all Gods? .. is that it?

or maybe .. we are none of us Gods?

or maybe .. i need to think about this thought engendering piece for more than a few minutes between cheque runs ..

nice to wake up to trev

Philip

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
2 posted 2000-05-24 11:06 AM


(Few hours later)

just had to have another look at this ... it really is a marvellous poem trevor.  Quite apart for the bits i just like the "sound" of eg

quote:
from their kingdom'd clouds aloft,
aloof,


and

quote:
blankets them,
believes in them


and

quote:
brightly twinkle the taunt
"you shall never reach our start"


I just absolutely love the whole way in which you play with the god/man/creation/universe thing in a kind of half ironical half cynical half serious (can i have three "halves" lol?) kind of way.

I really don't think there's a thing I'd change.. The idea of Gods (plural) with doubts, the very idea of them being comforted and coddled is just so amusing, and as if that weren't enough the concept of something beyond and above those Gods taunting them with their own relative ignorance is doubly so.

Gods begging ...lol...great!

The last stanza is wonderful trev ...but i can't make up my mind whether there is any real seriousness here at all?  

Is this simply the writer saying that the whole thing is kinda circular and that man, biology and Darwinian theory is the "be all and end all" so that "the Gods" are themselves merely the creation of man who is in himself a "creator", THE creator ..lol... but feels compelled always to look for answers beyond and above what he perceives to be his own insignificance? .. eg the invention of "Gods"?

Or maybe are we looking at Gods plural as in some kind of portrayal of the ancient classical Gods .. versus the singular God of Christianity .. the "real" God in the prayer books.

Somehow, i get the feeling the former idea is nearer the mark?

Trevor i really enjoyed this

Thanks

Philip

doreen peri
Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812
Virginia
3 posted 2000-05-24 07:46 PM


I loved this, Trevor!

Great first stanza! Liked that "aloft/aloof" effect. Also liked "blankets them/believes in them" and "Who eases the burden/of kneeling billions/all bleeding whispers of/ who has forgotten the broken?"  Excellent, excellent, excellent!~ Love the alliteration... really adds to it.

The whole thing is pretty darn succinct and well done.

Since the premise of this poem goes against my belief system....that there is only one God who created us to be like Him, (therefore we are always constantly creating although some, true, might not realize it.. and although some of us more than others)... I think it would have done more for me in its message had you not made God plural. But that's just me and this is CA, not philosophy forum. I read it over taking the 's' out every time you used the word "Gods" and substituting "he" for "they", "him" for "them", etc., and it gave me chills up my spine.

The line about begging, though, would make more sense to me with some reference to death...seems to me...  people often beg God when someone is dying (or they, themselves) more than any time, i think. But then again, what do i know? i'm only one person. Millions of people every day might beg God to lose ten pounds or for a nice vacation in the Bahamas. *grin*

I guess what i'm trying to say is i think a better word for that lone and very important stanza consisting of only one line would be "plead"... people do plead with God for food and clothing, money, a decent place to live. (of course, if they'd get off their butts and go to work, there'd be a lot less pleading! LOL...)

but seriously, there's people in third world countries, for instance, who lack life's basic necessities and i think there's a lot of pleading going on with these people... but not really 'begging', y'know?

well, i've rambled here and as i've been typing this, i've come to some conclusions. first, it really is good to 'see' you and read you again... haven't been over here in CA for a long long while. second, could you maybe make this poem a little longer? hehe... and third, typing all this out has been a bit taxing and i could use a nice sandwich right about now. Yum!
*wink*

take care, trevor... seeya soon!  
-doreen


[This message has been edited by doreen peri (edited 05-24-2000).]

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
4 posted 2000-05-25 01:29 AM


trevor--

it's lonely at the top, eh?     

seriously, though, this is just suberb.  the only lines that didn't quite work for me were "Who eases the burden / of kneeling billions / all bleeding whispers of / who has forgotten the broken?"  i believe you are saying that the "kneeling billions" put a burden on the gods, and to whom do the gods turn to ease this burden?  it kinda reads to me at first, though, like the "burden" is the "burden of the kneeling billions," that is, the burden belonging to the kneeling billions that the billions turn to the gods to ease.  i don't know, i just think maybe that little ambiguity could be cleared up.  "whispers of who has forgotten the broken?" i think was a little awkward, too; actually, the more i read it, the less sure i am of what you're trying to say there.  oh, and i might put a comma after "If" to set off "beyond their powers" as the independent clause it is.

but...

sweep all that aside.  make no mistake, this is one fantastic poem, trevor.  i really loved these lines: "kingdom’d clouds aloft, / aloof;" the whole series of lines
"Who comforts them through existence, / blankets them, / believes in them / when they doubt what they have created, / when the created doubt them?"; "bleeding whispers"; "immense unanswerable / specks of light / brightly twinkle the taunt"... simply wonderful.  fresh, original, provocative, stunning, tightly yet beautifully phrased, with excellent imagery and depth; all i can really say is, "great."

thanks for sharing this with us.

jenni

Seoulman
Junior Member
since 2000-05-24
Posts 41

5 posted 2000-05-25 03:45 AM


Hi Trevor,
I'm new to this forum and read your peom with interest. Yes, the idea of who looks after the gods is interesting. We pray for our relief but are 'they' immune to any problems.

Just with the first stanza, I would have inserted a comma after "kneeling millions," or just ended it there.    

Interesting !

doreen peri
Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812
Virginia
6 posted 2000-05-25 12:25 PM


general comment about poetry in general and audience--

i think it's very interesting that the lines i especially loved didn't work for jenni... the very same lines...!!

which just shows to go ya... poetry is a living, breathing, personal experience ... different things to different people at different times...

plus, reading through these responses, it seems we each got something different out of this... which tells me this... trevor, this poem rocks! bravo, m'friend!


Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
7 posted 2000-05-25 01:32 PM


yet another misunderstanding !?  ... LOL

tell me you're doing this deliberately doreen..!


doreen:
quote:
Great first stanza! Liked that "aloft/aloof" effect. Also liked "blankets them/believes in them" and "Who eases the burden/of kneeling billions/all bleeding whispers of/ who has forgotten the broken?"  Excellent, excellent, excellent!~ Love the alliteration... really adds to it.


jenni:
quote:
i really loved these lines: "kingdom’d clouds aloft, / aloof;" the whole series of lines
"Who comforts them through existence, / blankets them, / believes in them / when they doubt what they have created, / when the created doubt them?"; "bleeding whispers";


er .... what am i missing D?

P

actually i just like playing with these HTML tags heh heh  

warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

8 posted 2000-05-25 07:14 PM


Trev,

I've tried to reply to this three times prior, and each time, I nearly finished, then got booted. Hmmmm...yeah, I'll give it another shot.

Seriously, I loved this. It reminded me of my fav H.S. English teacher's hypothesis:
How do we know that we're not in some kind of container, being watched by a greater species, just like ants in ant farm, or fireflies in a jar, etc.?

I agree with Philip that you're saying we all have a god within us, but I would go further and guess that, in referring to gods, you are speaking of those who feel themselves above others.

As far as critique...you "done good"...liked your wording, placement...everything.

Nice work,
Kris

 the poet's pen...gives to airy nothing
A local habitation and a name ~ Shakespeare

doreen peri
Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812
Virginia
9 posted 2000-05-25 07:46 PM


philip

jenni said... and i quote, hehe, "the only lines that didn't quite work for me were "Who eases the burden / of kneeling billions / all bleeding whispers of / who has forgotten the broken?"  i believe you are saying that the "kneeling billions" put a burden on the gods, and to whom do the gods turn to ease this burden?"

i said, and i quote.. hehe " Also liked "blankets them/believes in them" and "Who eases the burden/of kneeling billions/all bleeding whispers of/ who has forgotten the broken?"  Excellent, excellent, excellent!~ Love the alliteration... really adds to it."


ummm... maybe you missed something? or maybe I did?

damn text... geesh
*wink*

jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
10 posted 2000-05-25 08:27 PM


Trevor:

Great poem, my friend.  I think the one great irony of this piece is that the Gods are the ones labled as curious at the end when it was the poet who was asking all of the questions.    I've been thinking about your last stanza for a little while now and I am still not sure what it is you are trying to say.  I suppose "books between pews" brings a Christian setting to my mind and the writers of all of the biblical books are long dead ... because they are dead I wonder how they can forget OR create anything.

Perhaps you are shifting the focus from the "Gods" to those who look to the books between the pews for answers, who trade creativity for cold dogma, rehashing popular opinions while neglecting their own powers of thought and creativity.  I've seen it plenty of times as I am certain many others have.

There is a certain honesty to the soft agnosticism expressed in this poem that comes across well in the consistency of your voice.

I basically enjoyed the same lines Jenni enjoyed and had some difficulty with the same lines she mentioned (I'm agreeing with lawyers far too much lately ... *shiver*).  

Again, great job, Trev.

Jim

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
11 posted 2000-05-26 05:05 AM


like brad says doreen ... everyone is always right all of the time .....  

P

Elyse
Member
since 2000-04-16
Posts 414
Apex (think raleigh) NC
12 posted 2000-05-26 11:45 PM


this is so great trevor!  i love the line "from kingdom;d clouds alfot/aloof"  thematically thought provoking, graceful, not heavy handed, really, an amazing job  
luv Elyse




 Do I contradict myself?
Very well then . . . . I contradict myself;
I am large . . . . I contain multitudes.
-Papa Walt

Trevor
Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700
Canada
13 posted 2000-05-27 12:40 PM


Hello everyone,

First off, thank you to all who took the time to read and respond, much appreciated.

PHILIP:

"The last stanza is wonderful trev ...but i can't make up my mind whether there is any real seriousness here at all?  

Is this simply the writer saying that the whole thing is kinda circular and that man, biology and Darwinian theory is the "be all and end all" so that "the Gods" are themselves merely the creation of man who is in himself a "creator", THE creator ..lol... but feels compelled always to look for answers beyond and above what he perceives to be his own insignificance? .. eg the invention of "Gods"?

Or maybe are we looking at Gods plural as in some kind of portrayal of the ancient classical Gods .. versus the singular God of Christianity .. the "real" God in the prayer books."

Kinda wanted "Gods" to include both classical and contemporary. I wanted it to encompass all Gods both old and new thereby making it non-specific about religions but at the same time taking a friendly poke at all religions. I think you got the gist of what I was trying to say, I was going for maybe we have forgotten that by our words we have created Gods rather then them creating us thereby making us the Gods of gods. Also saying that if there are gods who create, maybe they aren't the end all to be all powers in the universe, maybe they are faulible(sp?) just like us.

"I just absolutely love the whole way in which you play with the  god/man/creation/universe thing in a kind of half ironical half cynical half serious (can i have three "halves" lol?) kind of way."

Glad you took it in a half hearted way. I thought it would be kinda of funny too if we found out that Gods pray to someone...hey maybe its to people so that they might clean up their act. "Dear people, if you are really down there, please stop acting like tits. And yes, please help Noah overcome his fear of water and St. Peter with his fear of large cats." ..was it Peter thrown to the lions? or Paul...or was it Ringo?

Thanks again for your input Philip.

DOREEN:

"Since the premise of this poem goes against my belief system"

The poem was intentionally set against all religious belief system. The whole premise of a religion and God is to have a belief system where the highest power is known and I wanted to light-heartedly confront that belief. Who knows where the end of the line is? Perhaps its just circular?

"The line about begging, though, would make more sense to me with some reference to death...seems to me...  people often beg God when someone is dying (or they, themselves) more than any time, i think. But then again, what do i know? i'm only one person. Millions of people every day might beg God to lose ten pounds or for a nice vacation in the Bahamas. *grin*"

Nice idea, maybe I should expand on the thought and incorperate the idea of a God dying, perhaps one of the classical ones because people stop believing in them.

"I guess what i'm trying to say is i think a better word for that lone and very important stanza consisting of only one line would be "plead"... people do plead with God for food and clothing, money, a decent place to live. (of course, if they'd get off their butts and go to work, there'd be a lot less pleading! LOL...)"

Maybe, but I don't think pleading has the same impact as begging.

"haven't been over here in CA for a long long while. second, could you maybe make this poem a little longer? hehe... and third, typing all this out has been a bit taxing and i could use a nice sandwich right about now. Yum!"

Yeah I haven't seen ya around too much, nor have I been around a lot....I was wondering when we'd be able to have a nice lunch again

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas. Take care.


JENNI:

"it's lonely at the top, eh? "

Like a child watching the ice cream truck never stop by his house

"i believe you are saying that the "kneeling billions" put a burden on the gods, and to whom do the gods turn to ease this burden?  it kinda reads to me at first, though, like the "burden" is the "burden of the kneeling billions," that is, the burden belonging to the kneeling billions that the billions turn to the gods to ease.  i don't know, i just think maybe that little ambiguity could be cleared up.  "whispers of who has forgotten the broken?" i think was a little awkward, too; actually, the more i read it, the less sure i am of what you're trying to say there."  

Excellent idea, never noticed until you pointed it out, thanks. I will revise it to:
"Who eases their burden  
when kneeling billions
bleed whispers of
who has forgotten the broken?"
It think the flow might be off a little there but the meaning comes through a bit clearer.

"oh, and i might put a comma after "If" to set off "beyond their powers" as the independent clause it is."

"oh, and i might put a comma after "If" to set off "beyond their powers" as the independent clause it is."

Another good idea Jen but I dont' know if I'll incorperate it because it slows that line down a lot.

Thanks for your insight Jenni, as always you've been a great help.

SEOULMAN:

"Just with the first stanza, I would have inserted a comma after "kneeling millions," or just ended it there."

A comma might not be a bad idea there but I think I'm going to keep the parts after that line. Maybe instead of the comma I could put in a line break:

"Who eases the burden  
of kneeling billions

all bleeding whispers of

who has forgotten the broken?"

Whatch'a think?
Thanks for your time and input.

KRIS:

"I've tried to reply to this three times prior, and each time, I nearly finished, then got booted. Hmmmm...yeah, I'll give it another shot."

Nothing more aggravating except for that homeless guy with pee on him who barks like a cat and tries to swim on pavement. Maybe its God telling ya not to respond

"How do we know that we're not in some kind of container, being watched by a greater species, just like ants in ant farm, or fireflies in a jar, etc.?"

...and when instantaneous combustion happens its just them messing with a magnafying glass

"I agree with Philip that you're saying we all have a god within us, but I would go further and guess that, in referring to gods, you are speaking of those who feel themselves above others."

I wasn't intentionally trying to put that in there but if you got that out of it then hey great. Some of the sentiments in my mind at the time is how absurd it sometimes seems that we ask gods for things we can do ourselves and its just a matter of letting go and doing them, such as feeding the hungry, the world as a whole could..and a few individuals on their own could probably as well, but instead billions keep asking something that may or may not be there to help....my point? Well maybe some of that people living above other without helping others type of sentiment seeped into the poem.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, thank you for your comments and for persevering through computer glitches

JIM:

"I've been thinking about your last stanza for a little while now and I am still not sure what it is you are trying to say.  I suppose "books between pews" brings a Christian setting to my mind and the writers of all of the biblical books are long dead ... because they are dead I wonder how they can forget OR create anything."

You know, I never thought about that until you brought it up.

"Perhaps you are shifting the focus from the "Gods" to those who look to the books between the pews for answers, who trade creativity for cold dogma, rehashing popular opinions while neglecting their own powers of thought and creativity.  I've seen it plenty of times as I am certain many others have."

Well I was trying to say those that created religion forgot the power of words and what they can create with them. Religious heads were in mind when I put that in there but still you have a very valid point saying how can the dead forget what they wrote because they are dead. I'm going to revise the last stanza to incorperate not only those who wrote religious text but those who currently preach it. Thanks for pointing out the problem with that stanza.

"I basically enjoyed the same lines Jenni enjoyed and had some difficulty with the same lines she mentioned (I'm agreeing with lawyers far too much lately ... *shiver*)."

I knew it was a bad idea for your work to give you a promotion    

Thanks again for your help Jim.

ELYSE:

Well not much I can say but thank you for taking the time to read it and I'm glad you enjoyed it.


THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU.
Take care,
Trevor

  



Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
14 posted 2000-05-28 04:23 AM


quote:
I was going for maybe we have forgotten that by our words we have created Gods rather then them creating us thereby making us the Gods of gods. Also saying that if there are gods who create, maybe they aren't the end all to be all powers in the universe, maybe they are faulible(sp?) just like us.


heh heh i "got" it "spot on" (did i just say that?  ) ......... again, great job trevor  

P

PS  we are all fallible with our spelling, no?

Romy
Senior Member
since 2000-05-28
Posts 1170
Plantation, Florida
15 posted 2000-05-29 11:11 AM


"My curious Gods
your answers are kept
in books between pews
written by those
who have forgotten
they too
have the power to create."

This poem allows each reader to interpet its meaning in their own personal way. It is such an interesting concept and one that I have never pondered before.  

I loved the last stanza because I believe as humans we all search for answers to the mysterys of the unknown.  We can forget that the "power to create" is within ourselves and the result of that power, for better or worse, can effect everything that it touches.

It is a gift we all recieve at birth and the ways in which I choose to use mine may ultimately be judged by "my curious Gods".

Debbie


rainbow_sunflower
New Member
since 2000-06-01
Posts 5

16 posted 2000-06-03 02:32 AM


An excellent poem! Its amazing how everyone got a different meaning, or message from the one piece. I truly enjoyed reading it. Your poem reminds me of the book "Knowledge of Angels".  It is about a priest who tries to convince an atheist that there is a god.  THe priest looses his faith, as the atheist points out flaws, or presents arguments which challenge his beliefs. A wondefull poem, although i don't really believe in what you are saying, i can still appreciate you point! Well done!
-Libby-

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