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Warnings?
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Warnings? |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563
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she could see them, hear them... inside her, in that abyss, the dark recesses, the subconsciously guided pit of intuition. rattling, coiled, venomous warnings, flashing lights, blowing whistles, sharp images, incongruent sounds whispering, insinuating so insidiously and vociferously, "do not venture there". and yet, she was able to deaden the noises, blind herself to the all too visible signals flashing, and she walked, unflinchingly, into darkness, and took bold steps upon the ancient structure, climbing higher than she had ever thought possible, in her arduous journey to the apex, where the four planes met in realization of herself, a place yet obscured by impenetrable clouds of self-doubt. Kristine < !signature--> Let compassion breathe in and out of you filling you with poems. ~ Jane Cooper [This message has been edited by warmhrt (edited 03-20-2000).] |
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haze Senior Member
since 1999-11-03
Posts 528Bethlehem, PA USA |
This paints a truly dark portrait Kristine. Fabulous form further marks the challenge for us to rise above our personal obstacles. GREAT WORK! |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Haze!! Where ya been? Nice to see you back in CA. I really didn't intend for this to be "a dark portrait", but it's all in the reader's interpretation. Thanks for reading, and for the comments. Welcome back! Kris Let compassion breathe in and out of you filling you with poems. ~ Jane Cooper |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
oops! [This message has been edited by warmhrt (edited 03-20-2000).] |
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haze Senior Member
since 1999-11-03
Posts 528Bethlehem, PA USA |
Hey Kristine! It's nice to be back-I've read this again and it still seems quite challenging (perhaps it's the voice of my own demons penetrating) You do shed hope in the final stanza and I see that now-maybe I missed it before! Either way-I still enjoyed the depths and form. |
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Elizabeth Santos Member Rara Avis
since 1999-11-08
Posts 9269Pennsylvania |
Kristine, I did not see darkness here, but a person of low self esteem (myself) venturing to a place not yet visited, enticed by instict or by the heart, whatever you want to call it. Boldly taking those steps, with unimaginable courage, fighting all obsacles, and yet always so insecure it that place she reached. Others look at her in awe, but she only sees the faults and the realities of who she thinks she is. Each verse is built up in as though it's sitting on a foundation, a pyramid of strength, but only she knows the weakness. I don't know what you meant, only relating it to my own experiences. I don't know what the four planes are, but perhaps aspects of life, the senses or perhaps the real, the imagined, the spiritual, the true, something like that. But I liked this poem because it describes a journey that I took in life when I was young. I'll look for your explanation among the critiques. Liz |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Kris: Sorry it has taken me some time to get to this. Real life has gotten busy and I'm finally finding some time to do things I enjoy like breathing and reading poetry.  After our little chat I did some research concerning what we discussed. I found that following at the Humanistic Psychology Online Resource website:The Hierarchy of Needs "Maslow's primary and most important contribution to personality psychology was his theory of the hierarchy of needs. According to him, humans have different needs, and these needs exist on several levels. Maslow argues that humans each strive to become what he calls a 'self-actualized' person. In order to do this, one must satisfy the first level of basic needs, and subsequently satisfy all higher needs before reaching the top of the pyramid - self-actualization. When a person reaches self-actualization, they are considered to have reached their fullest potential. Therefore, a truly healthy person has satisfied all of their psychological needs, and consequently has mastered the 'self', and become a fully-functioning person." http://projects.scrtec.org/~adams/epr300/resources/maslow.shtml I've linked a site that shows this "pyramid" to self actualization for those interested. While I think I (and others) got the gist of what you were saying here, I think my research has shed more light on your accomplishment. You've done a fine job of illustrating a fairly complicated psychological theory. Thanks for the read (and the excuse to do some research). Nice work. Jim [This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 03-21-2000).] |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Liz, Your reply was very much the picture I wished to portray, of someone stepping out of what was comfortable to grow, to improve upon oneself, and often, the warning signals are listened to, instead of going unheeded. Our intuitive senses are not guided by truth. Then, as you said, if one can get past those instinctive feelings, and venture forth, one can make strides towards fulfillment. The four planes are the surfaces of a pyramid, levels of development, meeting at the point of complete fulfillment or potential (as our esteemed and industrious moderator pointed out). I will comment further later. Thanks so much for taking the time to read and comment so generously on my work. Talk to you soon. Jimteach, My, my! You are the quintessential student also. We are always learning...especially you! Thank you so much for providing the info you found on the net; you are very resourceful. I, personally, find the theory to be a solid one. Of course, everyone's potential is different, and the manner in which they need to apply that potential varies from person to person. Won't get into it too deeply...not the time or the place. Thanks again, JB, Kris < !signature--> the poet's pen...gives to airy nothing A local habitation and a name ~ Shakespeare [This message has been edited by warmhrt (edited 03-22-2000).] |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Ok Kris I promised, and you exhibited all the characteristics of a doubting Thomas so here i am with the metaphoric spear gash ready to do my worst. I'm afraid i took one look at the Piper poem and got frightened by its length (is that your epic?), accordingly i took your hint and resurrected this piece which perhaps fortunately i missed first time around. I say fortunately because i printed it out last night and the printer ran out of paper after the first page with the result that I got the poem itself and Haze's "Great Work" reply but i haven't checked out any of the others yet (sorry Brad !!) so if I'm way off beam you'll know why ...lol. Can you tell I'm stalling for time here !!!......~smile~ Ok then the poem itself ...ahem.. The shape immediately hits one. Triangular I thought and moreover broadening and heightening triangles. I wonder why I thought? On a quick first reading i couldn't find much clue in the first stanza or even in the second, the third however sheds some light on the reason why you chose this particular form. What really stood out in the final stanza were the words "the ancient structure". They appeared to be so out of place at first sight. Up till that point in the piece the language had been all "feelings" and images of the speaker's internal turmoil. We naturally take the words "she walked unflinchingly into darkness" in a non literal way only to be hit in the next line by those words "ancient structure". So why are those words there? Clearly, as the end of the poem bears out, there is no question of there really being a physical structure upon which the speaker walks, such an interpretation would be in opposition to the whole of the remainder of the piece. Looking further still into the stanza we come across the word "apex" which immediately brings to mind a triangle and once again the shape of the poem, so clearly there has to be a link. Finally in the next line the phrase "four planes" leads to the suggestion of a 3-dimensional object with an apex and of ancient (Egyptian) connection - a pyramid. Problem is I've no clear understanding even now as to why specifically a pyramid is used here. At first (and second and third) sight I can't see why an ordinary mountain wouldn't have done just as well. Presumably this poem is about a person striving to find "the realization of herself" ie maximising her potential (horrible phrase makes us sound like machines...lol), in which case surely the idea of climbing an ordinary peak would have done just as well ..... shades of Julie Andrews "Climb every mountain etc etc" .. remember? The only thing I can think of is that I'm missing something, which given your occupation, seems likely to be a well known theory (well known that is except to ignorant ole me!) involving four "something or others" which need to come together to make a whole person? Liked the "clouds of self doubt" btw .. but a mountain has clouds as well ...lol. Ok so we have a poem about a person battling against her own self doubt (Warnings) and the serpent like whisperings of error trying to reach her own personal zenith. The increasing stanzas presumably signify her progress up the pyramid? Now looking a little more closely. The whole of the first two stanzas and nearly half the third describe and deal with the nature of the "Warnings". I just wondered whether this balance might be a little "top heavy" although maybe that was deliberate. At first I wasn't entirely sure how you "see" the types of warning you later describe, but then i thought well why not? If you can hear warnings in your mind then why not visualise them as well maybe as monsters or something? The bit i really did have a problem with though was the use of the word "intuition". If I have this poem right, although it starts off somewhat darkly with graphic descriptions of the warnings, the underlying tone is one of hope that the speaker will achieve her goal. This is conveyed mainly by the strong implication of the words: "A place yet obscured " This place exists!! Moreover she knows it exists! It is merely obscured at present by her own fears, but she will get there! So in other words the "Warnings" are evil, they are the baddies of the piece, trying to prevent her from reaching a good goal. Words such as "insidiously" strongly suggest this as well. What i have a problem with is that i would not normally expect such erroneous and misleading "warnings" to lurk in a woman's "intuition". The "dark recesses" ....yes The subconscious ...yes, but not that haven of sense, safe and sure guidance ........... a woman's intuition!!! A woman's intuition is always good is it not???? Well it is in poetry anyway .....lol. For that reason i don't like the last line of the first stanza. In the second stanza "flashing lights, blowing whistles" reminded me horribly of Thomas the Tank Engine ..lol (do you have the little blighter over there?), but leaving that aside i wasn't entirely convinced by the use of those words (and "sharp images") with the other descriptions in the stanza. "Rattling" and "coiled" excellently bring to mind the Eden/serpent/apple image I previously touched on, but to continue that theme i really think you need to work the word "sibilant" in somewhere, perhaps to replace "vociferously" which seemed a little "loud"! Anyway generally Kris I thought that this was a good thought provoking piece, as usual I'm sure I'm missing something but maybe you can enlighten. Thanks Philip PS And now i just read Jim's reply ...HEY FOUL .. i thought you were the one Kris who said you shouldn't need to have specialist knowledge to understand a poem ... lol [This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 03-23-2000).] |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Philip, m'dear friend... Firstly, no foul committed here. I thought this was a more widely known theory than it is, it seems. I asked advice, and was told I should go ahead with it. So there... Intuition IS the subconscious mind sending us signals or warnings...sometimes good, sometimes bad. In this situation, the speaker knew they were wrong, and proceeded. There were actually two subjects involved here. Intuition, and the warnings it sends when venturing into unknown territory, and the hierarchy. The signals prevents many people from stepping out of their comfort zone to make any strides upward. One has to take risks to get to the apex. So that is why the first two stanzas and part of the third were about the warnings ... reaching higher levels on the pyramid depends upon overcoming them. They go hand-in hand. Do you see or have I confused you further? You can get the basic idea of this poem without knowing about Maslow, and you did, as did others. So, Philip, the ump's call was "Fair!"  I thank you very much for reading, and for your in-depth critique, and I will surely consider the points you made, other than those dealt with above. Later, Kris< !signature--> the poet's pen...gives to airy nothing A local habitation and a name ~ Shakespeare [This message has been edited by warmhrt (edited 03-23-2000).] |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
yes but Kris I can guess who you asked advice from. Next time, instead of the world's most widely read man, try someone more normal .. like me ...lol P |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Normal like Philip? *Jim crumples to the floor in fits of laughter* ~sniff~ heh-heh. Good one, Philip. I think that she was following Brad's advice. One can never be too old to learn something new, Philip ... even YOU are not too old for that. Kris: I was never interested in learning about Maslow until I read your poem, Kris. I have this quirk that I must be interested in something to go whole hog into the learning process. I tend to agree with Maslow's theory also, after giving it a good look. Again, great job on this. Jim |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Kris, I also must beg forgiveness for being late on this one. Or maybe I should just plead ignorance. Well, since Philip has already provided such an excellent (if somewhat lengthy) critique, I won't try to improve or expound further. (Actually, I didn't really understand all that much.) It clearly dealt with mental or emotional matter, however, and the visual format added considerably to the tension build up. In reading, even without regard for the actual words used, it just seemed to get louder and louder as it progressed. I assume you intended that. Very effective. Thanks. Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Pete, Sorry it took me so long to reply to your reply. I understand that if one is unfamiliar with this subject, then there is little to say about the poem itself. I have vowed to write about more widely known subjects. My only reason for shaping the stanzas as I did was because, usually, the theory is depicted as a triangular shape, and called a pyramid. If it also communicated a voice that gained strength as it went along, then that is even better. Thanks for reading, Pete, and for your comments. Kris the poet's pen...gives to airy nothing A local habitation and a name ~ Shakespeare |
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