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Critical Analysis #1
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Some Things Just Don't Mix
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Some Things Just Don't Mix |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
My watch had stopped on the exact point Where I saw the sun through one green leaf And felt my hair moved by the breeze. I had walked through the muddy road To hear the sound of moving water, Over a construction hill readied to plop new houses For new families outside the city. I walked over and through the wood ready To be used but already made, rubbed my Red hand over some of the smooth textures And caught a splinter in my forefinger, Stopped and sat to pick up a weed, And tried to see the world in pain and green. I felt this just as my watch stopped On the exact point of hearing The sound of tractors and angry voices Telling me to get up or be turned into the cops. |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hey Brad, "My watch had stopped on the exact point Where I saw the sun through one green leaf And felt my hair moved by the breeze." Now I've been racking my brain here about the watch stopping in the poem....is it literal or an analogy for something? I really liked "sun through one green leaf" and how it complimented the flow and wording of the next line. "I had walked through the muddy road To hear the sound of moving water, Over a construction hill readied to plop new houses" I thought you could have a better word than "moving" because I didn't know if it was a trickle caused by construction or a river or stream behind the construction. Also I thought the last line of this section could use a line break either before or after "readied". "For new families outside the city. I walked over and through the wood ready To be used but already made, rubbed my Red hand over some of the smooth textures And caught a splinter in my forefinger, Stopped and sat to pick up a weed, And tried to see the world in pain and green." Very solid section of the poem. Really liked the contrast shown in the last few lines. The only thing that didn't work for me was "Red hand", was there a hidden meaning, such as the speaker is of North American aboriginal decent? I'd also like to add that I thought it was really good the way you not only showed the contrast in the above lines mentioned but also perhaps the way you showed the changing of the world from the old environment to the new environment....ie, a man coming out of the woods into the "new" world of a developing society realizing that the old and the new don't really "mix"....I don't know if I explained it properly but I'm hoping, as always, that you understand my mumbly long-winded explanations  "I felt this just as my watch stopped On the exact point of hearing The sound of tractors and angry voices Telling me to get up or be turned into the cops." Again, I can't get the meaning of the watch stopping, is it the death of an era? Death of the speaker's era? I didn't expect the poem to end this way, so it was a pleasant surprise, however consider rewording "or be turned into the cops", I think maybe it might be better said as something like "or be turned over to the cops"...the otherway sounds sorta like "being changed into a cop". Anyways, another solid outing, can't wait till you finally post something awful and I can stomp on you're back cause this complimenting you is getting difficult If ya got a chance drop me a line about the watch, thanks for the read, take care,Trevor |
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carolyn smale Junior Member
since 2000-02-02
Posts 20australia |
brad, To prevent bias, i’m writing b4 i read other comments. I’m sorry if i repeat anything or miss the point completely. the poem had a "Hardy" feel for me. the industrialised world encroaching on the "old ways". it also seemed to be an environmental poem - the loss of natural environments. i liked the image of the watch stopping - not new - but fits the poem. for me it had to be that he was coming from the city and going into the bush. i couldn't fit the watch image any other way because, from the title, it seemed as if his watch stopped because "technology" and all things modern (including the new development) can't coexist with the "old" natural world. i think i've seen something like this on star trek! "My watch had stopped on the exact point Where I saw the sun through one green leaf" I might consider dropping "had" "And felt my hair moved by the breeze." liked the sense of unease the breeze gave "I had walked through the muddy road To hear the sound of moving water," maybe "along" for "through" as i said b4 i had to think he was coming from the city to listen for water in the bush. "Over a construction hill readied to plop new houses" "plop" seemed to say that the new development would be haphazard and reinforced the lack of care we have for the environment. it doesn't quite make a sentence in this form? "For new families outside the city." I wonder if the mention of families muddies the impact, but then we have to consider why these things are happening as well, so OK. "I walked over and through the wood ready To be used but already made," I felt the above was a bit clumsy. I'd ditch "over and". probably something like: "I walked through the lumber, hacked and ready for use" "rubbed my Red hand over some of the smooth textures And caught a splinter in my forefinger," again, could be tidied i think. "rubbed my hand over the smooth wood and caught..." i wasn't sure why "red". keep thinking of nick cave's "red right hand". why the splinter? "Stopped and sat to pick up a weed," i felt as if you were looking at the devastation of the trees you'd come to see, now they're dead on the ground. you run your hand over them. the mention of the weed and that you stopped to pick it didn't add to that for me. a weed is part of the devastation. maybe if you found a sapling or something? "And tried to see the world in pain and green." this line has to go. too much i think. "I felt this just as my watch stopped On the exact point of hearing The sound of tractors and angry voices Telling me to get up or be turned into the cops." the tractors pull you abruptly from your thoughts. they assume you're a protester, but you're really like most people, sad at the loss of the environment, but not actually trying to do anything about it. you just wanted to go and look at what was left - never made it that far. the circular nature of the poem, seemed to suggest there may be a way to reverse the damage. i liked the poem. thanks, carolyn |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Brad This was interesting, I've read it a few times .. there is lots to comment upon but as usual not enough time ... I'll just say for now that I see the poem, as the others have said, as dealing with the difficulties (impossibility)of mixing oil and water, new and old, nature and development etc The watch stopping seemed to indicate the line or watershed between the two. In each case it is mentioned the speaker has just switched from contemplating the products of man's interference to the natural world. Firstly from the "construction hill readied to plop new houses" to the "sun through a leaf" and then back again to "the sound of tractors" and voices. "I walked over and through the wood ready To be used but already made, rubbed my Red hand over some of the smooth textures And caught a splinter in my forefinger, Stopped and sat to pick up a weed, And tried to see the world in pain and green." This was my favourite section. I see the speaker walking over the "newly sawn wood" (man made) but still through the remains of the natural wood (nature). "ready to be used but already made" I read into that line that nature had "made" the timber to be sawn and "merely" used by man ... maybe I read too much. Red hands ... cold? Native Indian ?? Ironically the splinter comes from the fabricated man made wood of supposedly smooth texture .. intentional? "And tried to see the world in pain and green" This is one of those lines that I "feel" the meaning of but can't express .. best line in the poem for me ...... Later (lol) Philip |
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captaincargo Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109Corning, N.Y. U.S.A. |
First, the word "plopped" has got to go. It just didn't seem to flow to me.Secondly, I was slightly confused with the watch thing. I finally came to the conclusion that the watch is stopping because there is no need to tell time in a natural setting. Okay that makes sense. But when he hears the tractors(civilization) shouldn't the "watch" start again? So I guess I havn't quite gotten your meaning yet. There were many individual lines that I liked in this. Two that stand out are; "Where I saw the sun through one green leaf" Nice. And; "I had walked through the muddy road to hear the sound of moving water" Indicating recent rain. Also nice, but the word "moving" doesn't quite ring. A good effort. Maybe it needed some Fairies.  Cap. Cap. Carg. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: Why are the real estate developer's always portrayed as evil, nature hating, monsters? We provide nice places to live and work for people and keeps billions of dollars a year moving throught the world's economies. But I'm a good guy and won't take any of this personally even if I happen to be a project manager in the development department of a large construction firm. Seriously, I'm use to it and many of your observations are true in certain circumstances (although I suspect the abuses are less common than you may suspect). Okay, on to the poem. "My watch had stopped on the exact point Where I saw the sun through one green leaf And felt my hair moved by the breeze." The one thing that bothered me about this line was not the watch or the sun or the green leaf of the breeze. What bothered me is that the character in the poem was able to observe both the sun through one green leaf and the stopping of his watch at the exact same moment in time. I suspect I know why you mention this now and will come back to it in a minute. "I had walked through the muddy road To hear the sound of moving water, Over a construction hill readied to plop new houses For new families outside the city." I think this sentence begins telling the recent history of the character in the poem. The "muddy road" suggests to me that this area was not widely developed yet. The placement of "To hear the sound of moving water" is a little confusing. I don't think you mean (1) to tell us that the water is moving over the construction hill, but rather (2) you walked along a muddy road, over a constuction hill, in order to hear the sound of water moving. "To hear the sound of water moving over the construction hill" just doesn't make sense to me ... I can't get a mental picture of this so I suspect you meant my second interpretation of the line. "Plop" new houses down is actually a good way of describing what many land developers do. They will acquire a tract of land and build relatively inexpensive, "Edward Scissorhand" ("cookie cutter type") houses, sell them off quick and make a hefty profit. But this isn't an entirely bad thing and I have my own biases, of course, so the negative sounding "plop" didn't have a tremendous effect on me. What is missing, I think, from this portion of the poem is a sense of the knowledge of the character in this poem that this particular land development is being orchestrated by one of those black hat wearers. This, I think, would then allow your poem cross over into something broader than merely an environmentalist poem. "I walked over and through the wood ready To be used but already made, rubbed my Red hand over some of the smooth textures" I immediately got the picture that this was wood that had already been through the lumber mill. The "Red hand" suggested to me that this may have been an American Indian/Native American (I'm a little rusty on my political correctness). "And caught a splinter in my forefinger, Stopped and sat to pick up a weed, And tried to see the world in pain and green." I liked the comparisons here even though I am not a tremendous fan of the poem's subject matter. The "pain/development", "weed/nature" analogies were interesting. "I felt this just as my watch stopped On the exact point of hearing The sound of tractors and angry voices Telling me to get up or be turned into the cops." So now we are back the the moment described at the beginning of the poem. The watch has to be symbolic in some way. Maybe it has something to do with a certain era ending. It is a little vague but since you mention it twice I am inclined to believe that you meant for it to be noticed. But "my watch stopped" could mean so much (kinda like my "knowing what silver represents" thing). A stopping of a watch could symbolize a death or a change in one's personal life, it could symbolize a death of an era or something good coming to an end. My thinking is that you mean "something good is coming to an end". But what bothers me about this understanding is the "my" part. IF the "red" hand is symbolic of an American Indian's hand I can see where "my" watch could be symbolic of the end of "my" people's world in the place of development. I don't know. This is kinda driving me nuts, trying to figure this out (you know how much I have try to find meaning in EVERYTHING). Well, later Brad. I did enjoy the poem, just found it hard to relate to some of the subject matter. Jim |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Ahhh Haaaa I have it now Brad ... this is puzzle poem No 2 .... LOL |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Philip, yeah. Jim, Why do you think the land developers are the bad guys? Who is breaking the law here? Cap, Fairies? Okay, but only if they smoke cigars and speak with cotton balls in their mouths. More later, Brad |
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rich-pa Member
since 2000-02-07
Posts 317New Orleans, Louisiana |
i found the poem to be very inspiring. i have this affinity for the land and native indians(i always root for them in the history books but they never win) and i have also thought about sabotoging construction that decimated wildlands (sorry jim). but back to the poem the watch stopping. i'm not sure of your original intent, but that's irrelavent, what matters to me is my interpretation, it's obviosly the end of something, but if it is i believe you could drop some misty hints as too what, don't be obvious (the idea of a sundial also came to mind given the next line about the sum coming through the trees. "moving water" rather vague, i mean someone could turn on a hose pipe and it can be running water, ya dig? bu they've told you all of this haven't they? i'm also gonna say that the red hand is an indian. that's all i gottA say besides the fact that i dig the poem and the overall content |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Mirror Mirror on the wall Who is the most infuriating moderator of them all ..... ?????? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Brad, I fear you have started something here. On first reading, I didn't get much out of this one, but each time I look back, I understand a little more. (That might be influenced by also reading the comments of others) At first I wondered why the watch stopped references but now I'm sure you will eventually enlighten us. No doubt it is important or you would not have mentioned it twice. I also thought "plop new houses" didn't fit well but Jim's comment makes me lean towards leaving it as it probably says exactly what you intended. I really liked the idea of seeing the sun through one green leaf. One question though. In the last line, should "turned into the cops" be "turned in to the cops" instead? Thanks. Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Brad Just bringing this back in case you forgot .. I want more than just "yeah" or I'll set Trev on you .... then you'll be sorry (and no excuses btw ... we all have wives y'know ... well most of us anyway ..lol) Later ... but not too much please P |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Philip, Thanks for caring but I've come to believe that this one is a bit of a failure. I still like the way it sounds and think I have at least touched on what I wanted to do but I haven't hit the connections between everything as well as I would have liked. Really, I wanted to write a poem that sort of explodes the polarity between environmentalism and suburban expansion and show that it's two sides of the same consciousness. That nobody got this is not anyone else's fault but my own -- I never show the connection between the mind of the constuction worker and the mind of the walker. The first three lines are the key to the poem -- simply, an attempt to show sensation without time, to show multiple sensory experiences that happen at the same time. The watch stops because the 'moment' is the recollection of simultaneous sensations. Now, part of the problem is that I don't go into that strongly enough unless you consider the circular nature of the poem as one point. A few other things, I was making a joke with 'over and through the wood' (Caroline seems to have noticed this) -- I was trying to play on "Over the hills and through the woods, to Grandmother's house we go" but to have the concrete image create a very different feel. I never mention that the walker is or has been in an environment other than that of man (and perhaps that idea is too vague). The 'water moving' moment is intended as exactly that search because it doesn't matter if that 'water' is man-made or not (this is based on a personal morning search through a construction site looking for the source of a small trickle of water). "Red hand" is just intended as a cold morning. His appreciation of 'nature' is an appreciation of a feeling in a man-made environment (or rather that that feeling is not dependent on a natural environment). The final statement of the construction worker is to show that while his consciousness is different, both feelings are dependent on the environment around them (and both may feel the same feeling at different times) -- the contradiction is that neither character realizes this. I'm going to come back to this theme based on an observation a professor of mine made while on a train in Japan (and my own personal experience in Japanese gardens). He noticed that all the trees outside the window were the same size -- in other words, they were planted by people. Japanese gardens are designed to create a natural environment but only through certain rigid, artificial conventions. And I have a few other ideas as well. Thanks to all who have read and commented on this one, Brad |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hey Brad, Read your response and thought I'd add a format and character idea that might help you get the message you wanted across in this poem, though it's not a strong rewrite (and not intended to be anything more than a brainstorming tool), it might help get the creative juices flowing....you know I always gotta say that type of thing even with you just in case someone gets "ticked" that I buggered with their poem. "Our watch had stopped on the exact point Where we saw the sun through one green leaf And felt our hair moved by the breeze. I had walked through the muddy road To hear the sound of moving water, I walked onto a construction hill readied to plop new houses For new families outside the city. We walked over and through the wood ready To be used but already made, rubbed our Red hand over some of the smooth textures And caught a splinter in our forefinger, I stopped and sat to pick up a weed, And tried to see the world in pain and green. We felt this just as our watch stopped On the exact point of hearing On the exact point of speaking The sound of tractors and my angry voice Telling him to get up or I'd be handed over to the cops." I dunno, what'cha think Brad? Take care, Trevor BTW, loved "And tried to see the world in pain and green.", evokes an interesting image for me. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Offended? Me? When I first saw what you were doing, I wasn't convinced but the last few stanzas do seem to capture a bit of what I'm looking for -- pschitzophrenia? If you think about it, what about going back to my wording on the last line 'turned into the cops' which adds a further dimension. We all play different roles at different times and if time stops, they all get confused and meshed together (and still are in the same environment). I like it. Brad |
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