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What is it with kids today? Breaking News
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What is it with kids today? Breaking News |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines 
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Breaking News... An 8th grader just shot and killed the principal of a middle school next district over from here in Red Lion, PA. Then killed himself in the cafeteria before school started. Where are these parents and what are they teaching their children today at home. Nothing is worth shooting anyone, if it was grades or even being made fun of( which they haven't said yet) This was a well liked principal. You almost have to have Hazard Pay to work in schools today...gives me second thoughts. I feel for the children at school who had to witness this, and the families who now have lost loved ones due to ...what??? "Love is not blind - It sees more and not less, but because it sees more, it is willing to see less." |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
You don't know what the principal was like behind closed doors nor do you know what the child was going through. There are two sides to every story and while you may think it is something to get angry over, remember that people are driven to these sorts of acts. After all, anything could have been running around in his head. Thoughts are powerful things. I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Students and parents both said he was a well-liked principal and no matter what was going on in his life there is no reason to bring a weapon to school. He wants to kill himself..then do it but why kill anyone else. And I still say where are the parents..a child of any age who hasthis much rage in him and has premeditated this, should have had some behavior noticeable tohis parents and or friends. This world has got to stop saying there is an excuse for what happens and begin to take responsibilty each for their own actions. Besides..no one will know his side of the story..will they now????..because if someone knew it, they could have and should have prevented this... [This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-24-2003 10:00 AM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Cattle are driven. People make choices. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"You don't know what the principal was like behind closed doors nor do you know what the child was going through." ~ It doesn't matter what the principal was like and it doesn't matter what the kid was going through - no excuse, whatsoever for what he did. "There are two sides to every story..." ~ Actually, there are at least 3 sides. "...and while you may think it is something to get angry over, remember that people are driven to these sorts of acts." ~ Say what? Let me paraphrase your words, which happens to be my own favorite quote for our times... "This is the day and age where we blame everyone else for all of our problems." [This message has been edited by Opeth (04-24-2003 02:32 PM).] |
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Tammy Blessing Member
since 2002-08-26
Posts 366PA |
Excellent response Ron!! I totally agree! Sadly,there are just too many parents out there today that don't care enough about their children. I see it all the time.It does make you think. But my personal solution is to become more involved with my children, their friends and their school in the hopes that I can touch even one child's life and help prevent things like this from happening. Not all parents are good, but the good ones should not live in fear and wonder why..we should stand together and look for the ones that need our help and do what little we can. Tammy Sometimes the smallest drop of water, turns the tide... |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Ron...yes there are always choices to be made. We still haven't heard what might have caused this 14 year old to take a handgun to school..maybe we will never know, but it has made national news today. Opeth, my thoughts exactly...you can never defend something like this...but hope that it doesn't happen again. And Tammy, I am glad you are more involved with your children. I often get accused of not knowing what I am talking about because I have no children of my own. But when I taught, I use to have 35 to 40 third graders in my class and I gave each one of them the caring needed and showed interest in each and could easily tell when one was troubled...so why wouldn't a parent? There are many warning signs to problem behavior. Today there are counselors in every level of school. There are so many aids for children if they and their parents just know where to go and how to ask for help. And parents know more or are supposed to know their own children well enough to know when they are upset. Whose gun did he bring and where did he get it..and the ammunition. More than likely it came from home and if it did, there will be more than this child who will be and should be held responsible for the principals death. [This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-24-2003 02:14 PM).] |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
The child died. I think that's sad in itself. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Sharon, I take the other viewpoint I say ..and a Principal died by a gunshot to the chest, he had no choice this morning. Who is to say that child wouldn't have killed some of the other 8th graders that were all in the cafeteria waiting for school to start. The child (a 14 year old) had the choice to go elsewhere for his troubles, or not to go to school at all. He brought at least 3 guns with him... the principal had no choice. He was shot less than 10 feet away in the chest. The child had the choice to stay alive, and he didn't make the right choice twice. I feel for the loss of a child and his parents loss but something was lacking in his family life for him to do this. The guns were not locked up and came from his home. It should be a lesson for all. My viewpoint in all of this is: Parents have a responsibility to their children. And certainly should have had the guns locked up and the ammunition placed elsewhere. If more attention were given to their children, this may have not happened. It WAS preventable. [This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-24-2003 04:21 PM).] |
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Chanson Senior Member
since 2000-08-19
Posts 1559Up Creek w/Out Paddle |
Hiya Maureen. I concur with everything you have said. And I would like to add that for every one news story pertaining to a horrible school incident such as this one there are literally thousands of good stories that don't make the news. Take tonight for instance. My family is preening and washing behind our ears to witness my 17 year old son's National Honor Society Induction in a few short hours. I am honored to be among 21 sets of proud parents to see their children receiving this honor. In two weeks time, I will have the honor a second time to witness my 13 year old son's National Junior Honor Society induction. At this time around the United States, many induction ceremonies are taking place to honor children who have their heads on straight, conducting themselves like ladies and gentlemen with manners. I feel extremely sad when children have parents who treat them as mere tax deductions and who show little or no love to their children. It is no wonder to me why a child feels completely alone and feels he must resort to murder/suicide to solve their problems and when this happens we hear about it on the national news. Such a pity that the flipside...ie, the goodness in children, the responsibility and good manners of many children do not get the same news time. The national and local news stations are all about cramming as many sad/bad stories down our throats and completely forget that there are MANY good stores out there too. *s |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
The title of this made me cringe. What is it with HUMANS these days might be a fairer Q. This was a sad senseless tragic event. But 'youth' itself isn't to blame. There are many wonderful young people out there whose stories never reach the media because they aren't 'flashy' or sensational....kids who make sane appropriate decisions daily, in spite of being bombarded 24/7 with our world's collective insanity. I'm actually more surprised that it happens rarely, given the world all of us 'sane' adults have offered them. Guess we will never know the truth in this one, as we don't know the truths behind Columbine, the community adjacent to where I currently live, which still suffers a collective trauma from an insane act at a school. |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697 |
It's horrible what happened. Yes, that child had a choice, but I pity him for the choice he made. Nobody MADE him do this, but I feel bad that he died, all the same. It is sad for the principal as well.. even if he wasn't as nice as people said, nobody deserves to die. Oh, make me Thine forever |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
I was sitting on these hands not wanting to say anything being a Canadian, but I do put so much blame on the availability of guns in the United States, but also understand the crime rate there is so much larger than it is here. I truly hope I never live to see the day we are allowed to own handguns in this country, and I mean that. This boy chose to take a weapon from his own home and actually kill someone with it, for whatever his reason. It is too late to blame anyone or anything, as it is done, and the only good to come out of a violent and sad act such as this, is to learn from it. I have to agree that for every sensationalized story you read there are literally thousands you never hear about as those don't get ratings or readers. For instance, Kacy was visiting me with her daughter Sarah, who is a typical teen in my opinion, with her head screwed on right, but she had a great deal of home schooling with a mother that truly has her best interest at heart. This is key - parent involvement. There is not a kid alive that does not want to know someone cares enough about them to validates their existence. I don't "blame" parents, I simply don't understand why they choose to give their kids so much money and so little time, as this is one investment they are making that will only have negative returns in the future. It is easy to give in, and really hard to say "no", and that is the work in family dynamics, caring enough to say, "No!" Anyway, I find this incident very sad, and agree with you on one issue Maureen, the teachers in this world have to be commended as key to our nation's future, and if it is going to be an unsafe environment to work in, God help our children, for they are the future citizens to run this world of ours. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
thank you all...I hope no one feels from my words that I blame the 14 year old or the parents alone...but that I feel someone should have paid more attention to this child and have known what was going on in his life so that this could have been prevented. We will probably hear later that other students might have known that he threatened to bring a gun to school. When will everyone begin to take these signs seriously. Even a mention of bringing a gun or suicide or killing or getting even with someone should be warning enough and someone should have been told. Most of the time it is a cry for help. M |
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Greeneyes
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
M~ I couldn’t agree with you more… AnnoFem~ you must not have children, I cant fathom the thoughts of what you posted…. There is nothing in this world good or bad worth KILLING some one over for any reason…..including the childs life People are driven to MURDER??? was that your intention of speech? How sad..... I agree with Ron 100% People have choices…. Through the darkness I can see your light And you will always shine And I can feel your heart in mine I will remember you [This message has been edited by Greeneyes (04-25-2003 10:23 AM).] |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
M, I do agree with you about the school situation in one respect. It IS a more dangerous place these days than it was when you and I went to public school. It's just one of the reasons homeschooling was the option I chose, four years ago, for my child. It's also one of the reasons I quit working in the public school system after 8 years. Taking responsiblity for our individual actions is only one piece of the puzzle though. There are too many guns available to too many hands. It's doubly sad when a young mind snaps and does something like this and destroys not only himself, but a respected guide as well. BTW, thank you Sharon, for your comments! |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"Taking responsiblity for our individual actions is only one piece of the puzzle though. There are too many guns available to too many hands." ~ Does a gun just jump into one's hands? |
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Greeneyes
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
Opeth~  Well said my friend, well said..... me~ |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
thank you again, Opeth, Midnightsun and Greeneyes. Any loss of life is a tragedy. M |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Opeth, I understand your comment. but what of the three year old? He cannot be held to the same level of accountability, and yet, a three year old recently killed a sibling with a loaded handgun, one that was left unlocked by a so-called responsible parent. More recently, last week here in Colorado an 11 year old boy was shot and killed by a friend when they were playing around with a parent's loaded gun that was left unlocked. The boys had ASSUMED that the 'responsible' sane parent would not have left it loaded. Bang, the 11 year old was dead. Ironically, he had just been given a doctors report showing his leukemia was in remission. No, the guns never jump into the hand. But sometimes the hands are not attached to a mature being. [This message has been edited by Midnitesun (04-25-2003 04:40 PM).] |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
In that case I hold the parents and or gun owners responsible. But some seem to think that the death of their child is enough loss and punishment..but if parents who own those guns are punished also, maybe then they will keep the guns locked up and out of the hands of those who are too young to know the consequences. Gun ownership is always a touchy subject in America. There are those who without guns would have crimes commited against them and have used them in self-defense...and how may weapons are there in homes where the adults hunt? A gun is an easy form of weaponry to use...and don't you think anyone older than maybe 9, knows what the outcome is when he/she aims it at another? Someone MUST be held accountable. |
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Irie Senior Member
since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493Washington State |
Maybe the kid was tortured & teased by class mates and the principle didn't do anything about it. Maybe it was his grades and was under some kind of pressure at home to keep excellent grades. Maybe he was abused at home and reached out to his school and the school did nothing. Maybe he just snapped and had a break down. Maybe he was just mentally ill. His parents could have been the best parents in the world ... Maybe not. Maybe we'll never know what caused him to snap. What I do know is that it is so very sad, for everyone involved. And I never read anywhere ..... did the gun belong to his parents or did he get it elsewhere? ~Sheri "Don't wait for your ship to come in ... Swim out to it" [This message has been edited by Irie (04-30-2003 04:17 PM).] |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
first of all it doesn't matter what the reasons behind him shooting the principal and killing him, and then killing himself (in a crowded cafteria of students.) He had at least 3 guns with him in his backpack. I heard on the news his girlfriend broke up with him...and that maybe the principal wasn't even his target...that said maybe the principal is a hero for blocking the shot. It does not matter what the reason was. It is against the law to carry a concealed weapon. It is against the law to shoot it, especially in a crowded room. It is against the law to shoot and kill someone. How many reasons did he have to have that would make this ok with you. If mentally ill, then his parents were responsible for allowing the gun to be found unlocked and loaded. And at 14 he was definitely old enough to know better. I have little respect for those who want to blame society or the victims. And as it turned out, from what I have heard on TV, others heard him mention he might do this...as I said before, that in itself is no joking matter and everyone within earshot of that comment should have reported it to someone of authority...and maybe then this would have been prevented. As a former teacher, and probably a new one again in the fall..I can tell when a child or student is having a problem, but if he doesn't go for help or want it, you can only attempt to help him...and notify his family. There was no excuse for murder, no matter what the situation...and yes, it was very sad for all families and friends involved. [This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (04-30-2003 05:51 PM).] |
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Irie Senior Member
since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493Washington State |
quote: Well, you posed the question; ,“and the families who now have lost loved ones due to ...what???”, I am just trying to understand why this kind of tragedy happens my self, trying to make sense of it all. Second, it does matter what reason(s) is behind it. It matters a lot, at least to me it does. Wouldn’t you agree that the more we know and understand why things like this happen, the more prevention and better intervention? quote:Yes; it is against the law to carry a concealed weapon on school premises, even with a CWP. (concealed weapons permit) I never said it wasn't. quote: Not one! NOT once did I say this was OK with me! I certainly do not condone it. quote: I wasn’t asking for anyone’s respect, just simply trying to answer the question …. Why? And as far as the others that heard him mention he might do this, and did nothing about it. You’re right. Maybe had they not kept their mouths shut until it was too late, this could have been prevented. Maybe they should also be held partially responsible? I never said I was OK with this, and was not making excuses for anyone. As I have said twice and will say again.. just trying to make sense of it and understand. So, I am sorry that I have upset you over this matter. This certainly was not my intention. ~Sheri "Don't wait for your ship to come in ... Swim out to it" [This message has been edited by Irie (05-01-2003 07:25 PM).] |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
I am not upset. I guess my question was more of sarcasm then wanting answers. Sometimes these events that get sensationalized make me wonder why more wasn't done to prevent this from happening. There are answers if one wants to open their eyes, especially the parents and friends of this teenager. And I know that parents can't know everything their children do, but the responsibility that comes with parenthood is one of the most important in life and if they are going to "raise" their children, they should know "the who and what and where" that goes on in that child's life. Thank you Irie for your responses. I did appreciate them. I think what is hard to realize on here is the tone used in words. *s M |
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Brad Majors
since 2001-04-03
Posts 2647Georgia |
I think alot of times after a certain age parents lose touch with thier kids because they don;t understand them and feel like they would be in the way. So basically without parental guidence its left to the schools, the media and thier friends as well as the persons own thoughts. We live in a society where violence is given as a viable answer to problems. Just look at the cartoons we all grew up with. except in real life the the person full of holes can't get up and walk away. Also the video games and music. I am not for censorship but there should be parental guidence as to what your kids asorbs and what it means. If we continue to let society raise our kids then we should not be shocked at things at this. that is not saying this is always true but put this influence combined with a disturbed child and it can be deadly. I think gun ownership is a great thing but carries alot of responsiblity. If you can't keep your guns out of the wrong hands then you have no business having them. I agree that the kids themselves have a responsibilty to control their anger but with the role models they have its not surprising this is happening. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
Brad, I am much older than you and grew up with the start of television and all those cartoons with violence...I don't think that can be blamed. Nor owning a gun. Some people grow up lacking a conscience, those we have to worry about. But most learn by their environments and what they can get away with. It isn't the schools job, nor societies to teach right and wrong and to keep tabs on a particular child. There are far to many children in each classroom with one teacher, to do that and outside of school is not a teachers responsibility either. But it is the parent's responsibility no matter what excuse, whether it is they work, or they are poor, or they are afraid to interfere in the child's life. They should know who the friends are, where the child hangs out and if he misbehaves there should be repercussions, anything less, is not parenting. M |
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