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Replica of passions...
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Replica of passions... |
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RosePetal 
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida 
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I stumbled upon a poetry site that is the same exact as passions except their pages are grey instead of blue! They have an open forum just like we do and then forums for adult and critiquing. So I registered and posted a poem in the open forum. Let me tell you, the people there were so very rude and jumped on my case just because they wanted my poem to be more in-depth. Then I replied a kind comment to someone else's poem only to be emailed by a moderator scolding me because she said that I MUST give a REASON why I liked the poem! She said "fluff" comments like "enjoyed or "this is a great poem" are not allowed. WHAT IS SHE KIDDIN?!?! Who is she to tell me what to say in my replies, that is a bit ridiculous. She told me that If I don't start giving people critiques then I should stop posting at that site! They expect you to critique poems in every single forum! This moderator got on my last nerve because she talked down to me as if I were a child, so I simply e mailed her and told her "listen, I like to share my poetry and read other's poetry, I do not prefer to critique, especially in an open poetry forum. You site's rules are absurd and I won't be posting with you anymore, I am quite content at my current poetry home, and let me just say that your site is a copycat of my home at passions but it cannot hold a candle to it. As far as your tone you took with me, I dont appreciate it, I am a new member and rather then scold me you should have extended me a warm welcome and then after that remind me of the guidlines! Well, everyone that site is an immitation of passions and it cannot compare. THIS is the BEST poetry home and I am sooo happy to be here. My loyalty lies with passions..(hugs to all) especially Ron for giving us the privilege to come together and express ourselves! whew tht was a lot of typing, my fingers hurt LoL. Just wanted to tell all of you about this because it angered me, but now that its off my chest, i feel much better. AHHHHHH! RP [This message has been edited by RosePetal (01-06-2002 12:37 AM).] |
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Irish Rose Member Patricius
since 2000-04-06
Posts 10263 |
You go girl, tell them to kiss your...well never mind, you said it just fine! Kathleen-- |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What is the name of the site? |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
Whoa, that is unbelievable! Places like that prove just how great Passions is.  If this is all the world has to offer, I want a refund on my life. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
I have also visited that site, RP, and believe me, I quickly clicked my red shoes and said "take me home!" Believe me...and Dorothy...there's NO place like Passions! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'm with Brad--I'd like to know the name of the site. I don't think I would mind hard critque as long as the arguments are intelligent, and not simply infantile expression of aggression (with winks to Sharon, for our chat room experience, lol) |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
well from what I saw, there wasnt much intelligence going on over there, just bickeing and knit-picking and arguments. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Rose...thanks for the e mail...I'm really sorry someone hurt your feelings with such insensitivity. So I thought I'd share with you a "critique" I received in another forum. "You obviously mistake poetry for that stuff that comes out of (your behind) in a fit of diarhea!" I am simply curious. (and maybe ready for a good fight? lol) hugs and thanks! |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
OH MY GOD, someone said that to you?!?! Geez, that is beyond critiquing, that is R-U-D-E! I have read many of your poems and they are brilliant, this person must be senile. lol. (hugs) [This message has been edited by RosePetal (01-06-2002 07:35 PM).] |
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Jonas Senior Member
since 2000-03-03
Posts 796Oregon |
Can you send me the link via e-mail? [This message has been edited by Jonas (01-06-2002 08:23 PM).] |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
anything for you Jonas! Check your mail |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Whoah, guys, I've been there, they have a nice circular way of reading things. There's no point in trying to go there, no point in trying to fight back. Let them be and let them let us be. Honestly, you'll just frustrated and angry and start saying things just like they do until you get banned because you're saying them to them(and suddenly realize that you should have just stopped going because being banned makes you feel so much better ).Go and read other sites, of course, but don't try to change them. Just a warning, Brad PS Beware of fighting monsters lest you become one. It's easy to do. |
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Jonas Senior Member
since 2000-03-03
Posts 796Oregon |
Now I remember that place. Nothing more than a group of psuedo intellectuals who thrive on conflict - calling it debate. The goal of every long standing member is to beat every new member into submission....then they convince the newcomers that they are their superiors and should be treated as such. |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
Yeah and once they saw that I wasnt going to comply with their ridiculous rules, a moderator began deleteing all my posts without even sending me a notice. No loss to me, lol. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Jonas said: Now I remember that place. Nothing more than a group of psuedo intellectuals who thrive on conflict - calling it debate. --Hey, nothing wrong with being a psuedo-intellectual, nothing wrong with thriving on conflict. The goal of every long standing member is to beat every new member into submission.... --that's the problem. then they convince the newcomers that they are their superiors and should be treated as such. --Yep, and then the newcomers turn on the new newcomers. Amazing place when you think about it. Brad |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
One Moderator there berated a newbie because the newbie didn't read and critique 3 poems. The newbie countered that he was going to but as it was a forum, he thought he had time. The Moderator stated 'this is a workshop, not a forum'. My question - why doesn't it say 'workshop'? I think for anyone who wants an INTENSE dissection of their work, by all means join the fray. But if you want a pat on the back for what you post, do not enter. And if you go, please remember to respect their viewpoints as you would want them to respect ours here. Represent the best that is PiP!!!  |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Wow, I hardly ever come to this part of the blue pages. I am utterly dismayed by what I just read. Poetry is from the heart, not just the mind, and once posted, belongs to whomever reads it, at any level of understanding and feeling, whether or not they choose to critique or reply. Sometimes people just know what they like or dislike, and know or care nothing about format or form. Your experience with this other site just reenforces my feelings that I've found the only poetry home where I need to post. A funny thing, this reminds me of an experience in college. I had a professor who didn't like my interpretations of Asian lit in translation, particularly Po Chu I and Basho. Yes, I do have some background in literature. The professor said " You do not understand this poetry, your interpretations are immature and illogical." Someone in class spoke up and said "No, dear professor ****, it is you who do not understand, or feel the poetry." I sat there almost frozen to my chair, as student after student spoke up and supported my interpretation of the poetry. That year, I had an A in every class except that one. It was the only year I would have had straight A's in college. I will never forget the arrogance of some academics. The site you refer to must be filled with such mental midgets. I am quite happy here. I have visited several other sites, and have received email solicitations to post at no less than four other sites, from people who have read at Pips but never once posted a reply. My time is too valuable to mess around. I see no point in posting elsewhere unless they offer me something I cannot get here. So far, no one has been able to offer me anything I want that Pips does not provide in abundance. Wow, am I rambling? LOL. You got me going on this one! |
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Bec Member
since 2001-02-23
Posts 475Canberra |
I found the site you are referring to, and while I mean no disrespect to anyone, it's seems a little, maybe, kindergarten-ish? I found the "Outside - interpersonal friction resolution area", and it seems to me that poets and writers who have work "banished" to this area are receiving a public admonishment for not sticking to the guidelines of the forum, rather than being told via email, or having suspect comments/poetry edited or removed. I also think that the need for an "area" such as this should indicate to the moderators that there is something wrong. I completely understand and accept that there are poets and writers who welcome criticism and critiques, but I think there is a limit. As I said, I mean no harm or disrespect or nastiness. If you are offended in any way, I'm very sorry. Bec "Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you." |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
Bec, you probably saw my name under that banned section lol..Just because I spoke my mind, (I did it firm but fairly) a mod deleted most os my posts. oh well, i wont lose sleep over it..im very very happy here with all of you. Yeah and the forum i posted in said General poetry, it didnt specify that it was a workshop at all..they seem to make the rules as they go along |
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Allan Riverwood
since 2001-01-04
Posts 3502Winnipeg |
I don't know, Rosepetal... why get so worked up about it, really? They've got their way of doing things, and you obviously don't comply with it. If you don't fit their reply policy, and don't have any desire to conform, simply don't go there. It's that easy. There's really no need to condemn them, or act like they're any threat to you. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"PS Beware of fighting monsters lest you become one. It's easy to do. " Brad, I would have that tattoed on the insides of my eyelids if I could. Gotta love it! |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
Allan, if you would have someone speak to you the way i was spoken to by a mod there then you would feel the same way. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Well it DOES upset you. But...after reading that little tidbit of a reply that I shared with you? I just made up my mind to write ANYWAY. What the hell do they know? Yanno? |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
yeah, hehe..im still going to write, but I wont post it there. : ) |
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Titia Geertman Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182Netherlands |
Now I'm real curious, wanna see this site too, so please can anyone send an URL to me???? Titia A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess... |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
just sounds to me like a different type of objective for those forums sounds like the webmaster wants the participants to get into evaluating the poetry some. nothing wrong with that there's a different atmosphere at every place we go to in this world and that includes the cyber world and yeah, maybe you aren't comfortable with that type of setup, so you stay here because you're more comfortable, and that's great, but probably the regular participants over there get something valuable out of the experience which is why they go there takes a lot of variety in the world who is she to set such rules? well, she's the webmaster, from what i've gathered from your post, which makes it her home and she can set up any kind of rules she wants, my guess, in order to encourage the participants to get deeper into the poetry than the surface level. it all depends on what you want but i don't think there's anything wrong with a webmaster establishing rules to create a place which he or she envisions will offer an atmosphere focusing on whatever goals they have in mind. ron did it. you like it here. that's cool! very cool! but i also remember a time when we both loved it over at the scroll and at that time, both of us were into critique. people change. goals change. writing goals change.... all that... right now, i hate critique. I dont think i'll ever want to do it again!!! and i mean ever!! lol!! but i do love it when someone analyzes my piece and goes deeper and tells me what they got out of it, which lines worked for them, etc.... again, it all depends on what you want out of the experience... *shrug*.... there is value in both this venue and that one, as far as I can tell from your post, unless participants are being ridiculed or something.... now, if that's how you felt, then maybe i'm off base here because friendly, gentle, encouragement to participate in whatever the goals of the site are is a good thing, but putting someone down isn't. I'd be able to give a more accurate assessment if i had the URL to the site you went to.... i'm only posting this response based on how i interpreted your post here.... all i can say is, i think it's good to have a wide variety of venues with different purposes becasue there are a wide variety of writers who are at various stages in their writing experience and it all can be valuable ok, i'm done... hehe... thanks for listening to my take on it...  |
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Bec Member
since 2001-02-23
Posts 475Canberra |
Titia... Check your email Bec "Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you." |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
What I find really interesting is the fact nobody posted the url out here in the open for everyone to see. Why the secrecy????? Just curious. |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
Whoa, i didnt think my little venting post was going to get this much feedback, hehe. Well, Jamie, I didn't think it was a good idea to publicy announce the site and bash them like that..but..hey since your asking for it, its Everypoet.com go explore if you wish : ) Yeah Doreen, I know what you mean, this is a big change from the scroll, but I like it! I used to think scroll was so great because there was no rules at all, but now I see that you need some sort of guidlines to avoid chaous and maintain a good poetry home. (hugs) [This message has been edited by RosePetal (01-08-2002 12:45 AM).] |
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Allan Riverwood
since 2001-01-04
Posts 3502Winnipeg |
Would someone send me that URL already? |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
I had a feeling it was PFFA but wasn't 100% sure. Really I just found it odd that everyone seemed to go out of their way to not say it out loud so to speak. There is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar. |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
Ok could someone send me the URL please? I'm dying of curiosity now...  If this is all the world has to offer, I want a refund on my life. |
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Irie Senior Member
since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493Washington State |
I managed to find my way to the site you speak of. What horrid place to be. It would be one thing if they stated they’re a "constructive" site. And the fact that they have not one, but two CC forums and still criticize in their So-called open is sad. And some of the replies I read were down right rude, not constructive at all. I find that disturbing. I am a poet who writes what she feels, and if I make a mistake in meter, rhyme or any other "poetry rules", I'm not beat up for it! You know, I'm thankful that I found this site before any other. I am happy to be here and am lucky to have friendly people like you here. Thanks to ALL of you, including Ron, for being so wonderful!  ~Sheri |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Some people are pretty hard skinned. I'm one of them. I've been to PFFA before, and while it seemed kind of exclusive, most places do at first. Believe it or not, PIP itself can seem quite exclusive to a newbie- there are pre-established groups and friendships and so on.... the issue is really whether or not it's a group you want to take the time making headway into. Personally, I think harsh critique is fine. It knocks people off of a poetic high horse, and gets them to see their poetry more objectively. This doesn't always work- in fact, it's almost always best employed with Writers (yeah, that's right, Writers, proper noun, not people who write or even writers, but the almighty Writer) whose egos need to be knocked down a notch or two in order to get them to see anything at all. Sometimes it's a personality thing. Like I said, I'm pretty thick-skinned, and I've had people tell me my critiques are too harsh or nitpicky- it's not that i try to put people down, it's that my feelings are pretty hard to hurt, and I'm pretty hard to offend, and I don't consider the fact that other people are more sensitive to certain things than I may be. Maybe it's just that that's the norm rather than the exception over there. "I'm thinking about leaving tomorrow |
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Dee Member Elite
since 2000-08-19
Posts 2330Queensland, Australia |
Hush, you are right, there is nothing wrong with a harsh crit, if that is what you ask for. There is also a need for a gentler crit for new and young poets. We don't want to scare them off before they have the chance to learn, do we? What is wrong with the site is the totalitarian way they run it. I saw poets who's work just needed polishing, that were told it was a load of **** and they should just throw it away. That is not a crit! Other poets were banished for querying a crit by one of the mods. Yes they know a lot of technical stuff about poetry, but that does not mean that their assesment of someone else's work is the only real opinion. The other thing that bugged me was the Aussies and English who were told to learn to spell. We can spell, just differently to the Americans. Just my opinion and no offence intended. Dee [This message has been edited by Dee (01-09-2002 06:06 PM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Nobodyspecial, At first glance, I would agree with you. The quality of writing is/was higher than here. As I participated, however, I increasingly began to feel that the negativity was seeping into the poetry itself. It may have changed, I don't know, but the more poetry I read there the more I realized that a certain diversity was lacking: a focus on the poem of the picture, and not of agency. This makes sense because agency all too often leads to sentimentality (a big no no from their point of view) and far too easily attacked for any of a number of reasons. This focus on negativity, on a misplaced use of objectivity, and, quite often, a misunderstanding of tradition/history (and these are all intertwined) has led to the exact same problem that occurs with too much emphasis on positivity: an increased reification of language. And that goes against the very poets and poetry that they profess to admire. Whatever initial constructiveness negativity can bring (and I do think it can be constructive) was squashed underneath the weight of an overpowering sense that the site really had very little to do with getting better poetry and much more to do with following an unwritten rule book. That is, the same type of poem every time (I'd give you examples but I was banned -- for certain childish acts on my part, yes, but no more childish than anything I saw there. By the way, when I was posting there, comments directed at my stuff were, for the most part, quite positive.). This may be quite unintentional, it may be simply the result of hearing the same defenses time and time again (I know the feeling), but I saw no self-reflection, I saw no sense that the negativity was in order to improve writing. It seemed to me simply the result of exhaustion. Or the result of reading the rule book without really understanding it. I don't know the causes, I can only give you my impression but I think it's wrong to assume that that site represents: "good poetry written by serious, intelligent, creative people devoted to the craft and art of writing, and that's the goal of the 'other' site." True, I can't point to Pip as a site that better achieves this goal, the excessive positivity seeps and influences the poetry as much as the negativity does there but that's really my point: neither site really furthers your goal. Only individuals can do that. Brad |
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Jonas Senior Member
since 2000-03-03
Posts 796Oregon |
All I know is that I write because I enjoy it. I'm not interested in critiques, or becoming technicaly astute, or being published. I could not care less what structure you choose use, or if your grammar is correct. All I care about is honesty. If I were to try to become what the folks at the other site think they are, I would come to hate writing. |
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Dee Member Elite
since 2000-08-19
Posts 2330Queensland, Australia |
Brad, I notice that Nobody Special's comments are gone now. I am glad you had something to say though. I wanted to comment but I just ended up saying things I shouldn't have, then editing them. Thanks anyway. Dee I wish you every happiness and may you always have the best of the good things in life. a brand |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
I never got to see Nobody Special's comments!!!!! |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I read the comments, they must have been deleted. It was sort of a reprisal post. Better left out of this discussion as we don't want to start a verbal war. And we really should learn to respect the other forums that are different than ours. |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
ok many have asked... i'll ask one more time WHERE'S THE URL????????????? |
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Shou-Lao Junior Member
since 2001-10-12
Posts 48 |
I pretty much agree with Brad on this one, I was there around the same time as he was and have popped back from time to time, I don’t think it’s extremes of positively or negativity are conducive to good poetry. One forces the writer into changes that are foreign to him/her simply to comply with the general agreement of what the minority believe constitutes ‘Good’ poetry, the other doesn’t give the writer any incentive to change at all. The differences between sites shouldn’t be used as a brush with which to tar all participants, there are in my opinion, a large number of poets at the other site that are very knowledgeable when it comes to poetry and you don’t have to dig too hard to find them. Some of the critiques are very informative and stem, not from a desire to destroy but from a genuine appreciation of poetry. Unfortunately as Brad has pointed out for every good one there seems to be ten others who, in search of acceptance perhaps, grasp with both hands the nearest band wagon and start b(l)eating with both feet. This preference for plain speaking that borders on downright rudeness is, as Brad also pointed out, probably due in the most part to frustration brought on by constantly having to repeat the same message over and over again, seemingly without any effect. I’m glad both sites exist and all the others I visit. I can come here to pretend I know how to write poetry without fear of being beaten to a bloody pulp but at the end of the day I need a shot of negativity to remind me that in truth I’m not really very good at this poetry lark. (Doreen, try searching for PFFA on Yahoo) |
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Dark Enchantress Senior Member
since 1999-07-27
Posts 1258meet Morgana |
I personally am not into harsh critiques because I don't write objectively.. I write just with my emotions and thoughts in mind. To me that's good enough. However, for people who like harsh critiquing... I see nothing wrong with it. Whatever floats your boat, you know? I don't exactly think that being rude or childish to people is very constructive, but if that's how that site works than so be it. I don't have to go there so I don't really care. Psst... I agree with Jonas. The only thing that I fear is to die quietly. Read between the lines. jaimespoetry.blogspot.com [This message has been edited by Dark Enchantress (01-10-2002 09:24 PM).] |
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