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Hope I'm not being obnoxious here...
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Hope I'm not being obnoxious here... |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
but I see such a serious lack of freeverse on these forums... I'm starting to feel like an outcast! hehehe Ok, so it's not that serious, but anyone else getting tired of the rhyming poetry? *sigh* |
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anonyogi Member
since 1999-07-16
Posts 174United States |
I'll bear my teeth. Grr. Grr. What is wrong with rhyme? Do you see it as a waste of time? A sign of an undeveloped mind? Why must you be so critical? Is rhyming verse pure drivel? Written, you think, by souls that are too simple? Personally I like it. Even if I rarely write it. When I see a rhymed poem I'm excited!!!!!! ------------------ Anonymous Web Poet |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Frankly I see a serious lack of good poetry, rhymed or free verse...... if I could write good free verse I would..... mine sounds choppy.....but I'll try one and post it..what the heck.. [This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 07-17-99).] |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
Hey RED! Wassappinin'??? oh, yeah, back to your question... I've been posting both free verse and rhyme... seem to get more responses from the rhyming stuff. Usually, my rhyming poetry is "lighter" and my free verse more serious. Some of mine have gone by with zero responses and I hate to think the poems sucked... hehehe.... but maybe they did (?) I agree that there's a lot more rhyming verse here than free verse but it doesn't make me *not* want to post my free verse (despite the lesser responses... there's just a LOT of people here). I disagree with Sharon, though... I don't think there's a serious lack of good poetry... there's a lot of good writing here (not *all* )... I think the Critical Analysis forum will be a good venue for honing skills. Anyway, sorry for rambling... glad to see you around, Red! You are certainly one of the better free verse poets posting and an inspiration to us all. Please keep posting!!! |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
Oh geez, I figured someone would post a response like anonyogi's... Anyone who knows me, knows I have no objection to rhyming poetry - it takes skill, it takes talent - god knows I've tried it a number of times myself (probably 20% of my work rhymes so believe me, I am aware of the work involved)... I just happen to *prefer* free-verse, that's all... I feel more liberated in it and find it easier to express myself rather then being tied down to a rhyming phrase (my opinion only of course...). It just seems that there is an incredible amount of it (both decent and sometimes pretty awful, I admit) on these forums and I am missing the format that I enjoy the most. I know a very talented rhyming poet that told me once that he thought that people who wrote freeverse were just poets that didn't know how to rhyme - that was, until he read some decent quality freeverse and until he attempted to try it himself. Sure, it's easy to write freeverse, just as it's easy to rhyme two phrases, but to write GOOD freeverse and GOOD rhyme is a completely different matter. I applaude those who succeed at either style... *stepping off soapbox* |
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IsabelleSkye Member
since 1999-06-27
Posts 253 |
Red....my girl....FREEVERSE Reigns! LOL Alas you and I, the poor souls who must suffer through life upon this mortal coil with no rhyme to our reason! I admire the poets who can rhyme, I cannot and when I try it usually sucks! Red you ARE my ideal of a Freeverse poet! Ya know I got yer back girlie. Izzy ------------------ Heaven is under our feet as well as over our heads.....Henry David Thoreau |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
Ahhhh, my favorite girl!! I gotcher back, too, my friend.... I LOOK for your stuff, such relief that our art is not dead...  (Hey, email me sometime, k? I miss you...) |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
If I had my mouth I would bite. If I had my liberty I would do my liking. In the mean time, let me be that I am, and seek not to alter me. ~~~Shakespeare~~~ |
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VelvetLuna Junior Member
since 1999-07-22
Posts 10Canada |
I write free verse!!! check out mine! personally, i dont like rhyming poetry..only if its really really good, though.. |
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Alwye
Moderator
Member Elite
since 1999-06-16
Posts 3850In the space between moments |
I think that the diversity of having both free verse and rhyming poetry is what makes the art of poetry in itself great. One is not better or worse than the other. I myself love free verse, but have barely any talent in writing it. But thats not to say that rhyming poetry isn't just as good. All the differences makes poetry truly great. Only my humble opinion.. ------------------ *Krista Knutson* "It's a crazy thing, fate has perfect wings..."-Deanna Carter |
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Colin Senior Member
since 1999-06-05
Posts 596Callington, Cornwall, England |
ok ok, that's it.... *frantically digging through archives* right... my reply is.... Freeform. Rhyme and rhythm Come easily to me Flowing from my pen. Others Throw words at paper Creating freeform A thing of beauty But When I try I worry For all I see Is a smattering of words. *poking tongue out* Eric |
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Masked Intruder
Moderator
Senior Member
since 1999-05-23
Posts 1231Near golden sunsets |
Rhyme and meter are so much sweeter Without the rhyme and meter!!!!!! Didn't you know?! *grins* F.V.F.L (Free Verse For Life) ------------------ Even with a lot of imagination, does it make the story less true? |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
What can I say? I see a lack of free verse and a serious lack of appreciation for it. I've read poetry here that hallmark would not use, and while I am not an expert, I know the difference between verse with thought, and rhyme with naught. But let me put this to you: Why should one endeaver to post works of prose, free verse, or rhyme of quality, when no one seems to read nor comment upon it? Poeta nasciture, non fit JP |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Let me re-respond. My last post sounded a bit mean. Did not intend it as such. I have written much that rhymes, and have moved to freeverse. The quality is not in the style, in my opinion, it is the ability to say what needs to be said in a way that no one has yet used before. what the sam hill am I talking about? I don't know, just read my shit and comment will ya? |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
JP, I couldn't agree more! Poetry is about what you say, and has little or nothing to do with format. I think it's really fascinating that Red started this thread, you're at the tail (for a moment), and Izzy is hanging in the middle. Why? Because the three of you have something very much in common, and I think that something relates to the comments on your work. There are a lot of great poets here. Some of them stick primarily to light verse, some pepper their offerings with an occasional serious poem, and a few - such as those mentioned above (though there are others, too) - concentrate to a very large extent on serious themes. More, you, Red and Izzy very often weave hidden threads into your tapesties, with images and allusions that go beyond even a serious theme. I'm not suggesting there aren't other who don't do the same - but you three stand out in my mind, if only because I've been reading your work longer than most. Let me tell you a story. A week or two ago, Doreen posted a poem in the Open forum and I suggested she also post it in Critical Analysis - so we could spend some in-depth time talking about it. It was that good! And now I'm struggling to find the time to respond in the depth I feel it really deserves. I need more than the 5 or 10 minutes I usually take to post - at least 30 minutes and possibly an hour - and it's darn tough to find that time. The poem deserves it, and it's my failure I haven't been able to do it. I can't tell you the number of times I've run into the same problem with poems by you, Red, and Izzy. And, yea, others, too. Lots of others, though not always with the same consistency (like almost every poem you three post?  ) Maybe I should content myself with a simple "Oh, wow!" Instead, I keep promising myself (as I have with Doreen) that I'll find the time later. Later seems to be a lot like a good woman - damn hard to find at times.Rest assured, JP, your poems are being read. And appreciated... Later, Ron (I couldn't help myself!) |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
I really appreciate your words Ron. No one here knows me as well as Red, no one knows how deep my arrogance runs (my pride wants me to call it confidence). Do I like in depth comments on my poems? Absolutely. But that is secondary to the idea that people read and understand something I've written. I try to balance my temper tantrums over not being commmented on, with the knowledge that I, like you, read something and want to spend an inordinante amount of time commenting on it. Yet time, and my own inability to focus for any length of time cuts into me like a rusty saw. Red Letter writes with such depth and passion I find it hard to comment on most of what she writes. One of her poems is like a flaky bisquit, delicious whole, but you can peel off layer after layer of wonderful morsels. I am going to spend time today reading Izzy's work, get acquainted with it and apply myself to indepth analysis and commentary. Okay, I've rambled enough.. Furor poeticus |
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Red Letter Member
since 1999-05-24
Posts 85Allentown, PA |
wow... thanks, JP... you know me (and the shit my life has thrown my way) better then probably anyone here and I can't help being incredibly flattered by your words... I do know you UNDERSTAND my stuff really well and I love that - and of course, I often know exactly where you (and yer 'confidence' {whatever!} hehehe) are coming from.... I always read your stuff even when I don't comment... do know that... And as for you, Ron... you are TOOOOOO flattering... your words mean much to me. thanks. |
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IsabelleSkye Member
since 1999-06-27
Posts 253 |
WOW!!! Here I wasn't looking and ya'll were talking about me *self conscious blush* Thanks.... when the haze clears I'll reply better LOL Izzy (Hint...UN-O-ME JP *wink* *nudge*~adjusting HALO~ HINT HINT) ------------------ "I would rather sit on a pumpkin, and have it all to myself, than to be crowded on a velvet cushion." .....Henry David Thoreau |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
And, JP, if Izzy's hint wasn't quite strong enough you might try this thread... [This message has been edited by Ron (edited 08-04-99).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
My god how I hate pen names! Y'all get me so discombobulated with your mystery and stealth... I need one of those valium the doctor prescribed..... |
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Lil-bit Junior Member
since 1999-08-03
Posts 29Tallahassee, Florida |
Poetry is poetry - whether free-verse or rhyme. Enjoy it for what it says NOT looking at the form! Think as a "blind man". Enjoy the feel, textures and warmth. Envision yourself in the scenes described. Learn to see with your feelings not your eyes. Breath in the smells as if you are really in that poem. Learn to become part of the words NOT the form. As you learn to do this - the form will become meaningless and inconsequential. Take a break from reading poems that rhyme. Come back to them when you arent so irritated by the "rhyming". You will enjoy them more. Be blessed and happy reading! ------------------ [This message has been edited by Lil-bit (edited 08-04-99).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
Hmmmmm, lil bit, you may have a point, but I think you are missing a lot in your assertions, some of that is familiarity with whom you are addressing and making assumptions that that person is new to poetry. It is not my place to speak or Red, but if you were addressing me I would say "let's meet in the Alley" Poeta nasciture, non fit JP |
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Black Rain Member
since 1999-07-19
Posts 60California, USA |
Ok I take that as a personal insult. Rhyming is the only kind of poem I can get myself to do. I've tried writing free poetry, but it just isn't my thing.....I don't understand how you guys can say that rhyming isn't as good or "as mature" or whatever. Poetry is Poetry and as long as it comes from the heart it is good. I write poems to express my feelings, I don't mind if people don't like my work, it just makes me feel better to get it out in the open. But it just makes me mad when people insult my work and tell me that It's not up to their standards. Sorry to waste your time, I just had to put in my thoughts......... black rain ------------------ "I'm just a girl...standing in front of a boy...asking him to love her." - Notting Hill |
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IsabelleSkye Member
since 1999-06-27
Posts 253 |
I have a couple things to say first of which is that too many dang people are carrying chips on their shoulders and waiting anxiously to see who jiggles it next so they can have an excuse to blow up. Live and Let Live ya'll it's easier eh? Free Verse, Rhyming whatever......it don't matter! We are all in this poetic ship together, if you cannot row with the others please abandon the ship before ya sink us all. Second.....JP..if ya missed the hint Ron threw yer way, then you'll just have to go thru life wondering who I really am...Red..no telling! eh? ok girlie? *Girls Rule* LOL anyways, I'll hop off the soap box I just stole from one of ya'll Much love I.Skye ------------------ "I would rather sit on a pumpkin, and have it all to myself, than to be crowded on a velvet cushion." .....Henry David Thoreau |
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Partner In Crime #1 Junior Member
since 1999-07-21
Posts 13 |
Hehe...Of course, those pesky Partners in Crime are always around holding certain secrets. But for a price, things can be forgotten. *evil grin* ------------------ Kohorte im Verbrechen Nr. ein *In die Nacht verschwindet der Dieb* |
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Black Rain Member
since 1999-07-19
Posts 60California, USA |
ok chip on my shoulder? whatever, i'm not even going to get into this......and i don't think it was right of you to tell people that want to express thier opinions to "get off the ship". black rain ------------------ "I'm just a girl...standing in front of a boy...asking him to love her." - Notting Hill |
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MissNTrope Junior Member
since 1999-07-29
Posts 43 |
WHIIIIIIIIIII-NING..... What's wrong with RHYYYYYYYY-MING?????? |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
A few points: Izzy I got the hint(~X~) I may be a bit slow but I can still beat a snail in a race... Black Rain, nothing is wrong with rhyming, and the general consensus in this world is that all forms of poetry are valid and valued works of art, and I think the whole point of this discussion was to assert that idea. To take offense because some say they do not prefer rhyming poetry... Izz was positively correct, chips are there, like that damn battery and people dare others to knock them off. Poetry is such a personal thing, more so than other forms of art (in my opinion). Not many painters hang a painting in a gallery and throw fits if someway says they don't care for it, but poets do it here all the time. Critique and criticism are closely related but entirely different activities, a criticism is non-constructive, demeaning, and useless to anyone but the small minded individual doing the criticizing. A critique however, is useful. It is designed to help the artist perfect his or her craft, what I see on this web site is critiques for the most part. I do see opinions expressed, some say they don't care for free verse or rhyme. They are not saying that one form is better than the other, they merely state their preference, to be offended by that is ludicrous. Would you be equally offended if someone said they prefer brown eyes to blue, if you had blue eyes? We are close to the end now... Ultimately there is only one thing to know, poetry in all its forms is a blessing from the gods, it blesses those who write it for whatever reason they write, and it blesses those who read it for whatever reason they read. This gift... this best bit of humanity that we can share between us should not be a pawn in a battle of petty tripe, but a joyous celebration of our existence and fellowship in this world. Amor vincit omnia JP |
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Delores Hall Member
since 1999-07-16
Posts 342USA |
This is sad.I see things a little more clearly now.Have a nice day. |
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IsabelleSkye Member
since 1999-06-27
Posts 253 |
Actually what I meant was that I had previously been posting at another site, and it became torn apart by people's biases etc. I was saying that we should live and let live...by admiring styles with which we do not write. And being a cheering section for our favourite poets. And not trashing those we do not like or do not agree with. I am a creature of peace and harmony. I'd hate to watch this site suffer like the other one did. Many of our poets here come from there. This site is such a respite from tempest and torment of angry people. I love it! (Thanks Ron *hug*) Izzy ------------------ "I would rather sit on a pumpkin, and have it all to myself, than to be crowded on a velvet cushion." .....Henry David Thoreau |
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PartiStarks Junior Member
since 1999-07-31
Posts 38Brooklyn, NY |
I am versatile and I know how to appreciate both freeverse and rhyming poems. |
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pandora Member
since 1999-07-26
Posts 184 |
Free verse vs. rhyming? jeez, I dunno.... sometimes I rhyme, sometimes I don't, it's all in what I want to say at the time and the feeling of the piece.... thanks, l'il bit, I agree... poetry is poetry, no matter what! as long as it's poetry .... hehehe ------------------ With one wish we wake the will within wisdom. With one will we wish the wisdom within waking. --pandora [This message has been edited by pandora (edited 08-08-99).] |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Why oh why must everyone try to constrain everything within categories....free verse...rhyme....sonnets....haikus.....I guess that's my bone to pick....let rhymes live and let free verse flow and let haikus be ump-teen lines long.....good poetry is good poetry no matter what the format is.....so there....I'm still alive...no lightning bolts and no purgatory.....it's nice to be on the net again.....P.S. Thanks Doreen |
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poetFemmeFatale Member Elite
since 1999-07-25
Posts 2646Arkansas |
Okay everyone - I never get into this sort of thing as far as commenting, (I usually read them though) but it's because someone always ends up getting offended and then mud starts flying! We poets should be above that, considering one of our best talents is Communication in a sense. I can't let this one pass me by however, because I have such a strong belief on this topic.... When I'm reading through & posting comments, you'll find very rarely do I critique on form or grade on "accuracy" as far as like a Teacher would - (no offense Nan) To me poetry is a one-way ticket into a person's soul, and a priveledge to go there at that. No matter how good, or what style they use, or how flawless the meter & rhyme, if any, I see poetry as a doorway to an individual, and I think, "What inspired this person to pick up the pen in the first place...?" I try to get in their head, and stand in their shoes for a moment to see if I can feel their words....it's quite an experience.....and it doesn't matter if it rhymes or not....some of the most beautiful stuff I've read in here, came from just a simple thought, feeling, idea, situation.....and what made it beautiful was because of what it made me feel. Don't grade eachother so hard that it takes the real pleasure away from what and why we write.....it is a form of inexpensive therapy....for tears & laughter!! We are all here because we love to express & share our souls with eachother.....poets are artists in the most exquisite form.....lets not stoop to a low and critique eachother so harshly that we offend or hurt our fellow poets...We are all such colorful & unique individuals, and we write as such...variety is what makes man the wonderful creature that he is !! (and woman) We write what's in our hearts, thus the wonderful variety in the forum....what's wrong with that? If we all wrote the same, we'd be bored out of our minds !! Okay, I'm outta here....I'll pass the offering plate later....nuff preaching from me!!! Love all you guys - we are brothers & sisters in Art & Soul !! Gennifer ------------------ - poet FemmeFatale "The strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone..." Henrik Ibsen (1826-1906) Norwegian dramatist lyric poet |
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IsabelleSkye Member
since 1999-06-27
Posts 253 |
Bravissimo! |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Well now, it appears I've landed myself in another mess. I too, left the last forum I visited, because of the insensitivity of others (not that anyone would ever not like my stuff) Anyway, in my own opinion,(and you know what they say about opinions...) I think the problem stems from both sides. Side one: People are too critical. (Using the term as JP put it.) I don't know, or care, if it stems from a lack of self-esteem, but some people do seem bitter when responding to others work. Be that as it may. In my own personal belief, I stand with JP as to the difference between critique and criticism. I think we should spend our time critiquing, so as to enrich the respondants life, as opposed to disgruntling them. Remember, judge not, lest ye be judged. And though you may not believe as others, by making a judgement, you bring judgement down upon yourself. If not from God, then at least from the ones you've judged. And being the instigator, whom do you think will be judged more harshly? Side two: Those who are being critiqued, or criticised could perhaps develop a wider breadth of understanding. I have witnessed a critique being taken as harsh criticism, when it is merely that the person was not "graceful" with their suggestions. Maybe if we show a little more tolerance, some of us would realize, that what the person is saying is valid, and not meant to be derogatory in any way. (Such as the case that started here! JP wasn't saying that free-verse people were not talented, he was merely expressing his personal opinion, and not in an insulting manner.) Please everybody, I really have come to like this forum. It's much better than any I've ever been to, and I think the breadth of talent is amazing. Granted, I don't care for everything, but hey- taste varies. So everybody..... Can't we just get along!!!! ------------------ ...the things I did not know at first, I learned by doing twice. -Billy Joel [This message has been edited by Christopher (edited 08-15-99).] |
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Clmbb Junior Member
since 1999-07-23
Posts 18Petersburg,Pa, USA |
Well I read all the comments and find myself with mixed emotions here. I started writing poety that rhymed in school, of course we probably all did at some point. I feel in my opinion (and yes I know we all have one) that for me switching from rhyme to free-verse was just another level of growth in my writing. Some may not be comfortable in that others find its more relaxed with their writing. For me, mine may not be good but I feel that I cannot be good unless I try. All my successes have come from some sort of failure and I've had plenty. Weither my poetry is read and commented on doesn't really matter personally. For I find what I write, I write because its what I feel. And in writing how I feel I cannot be wrong. I try to always remember everyone will not come away with the same feelings that I did when I wrote my poetry. It takes courage to write and post. I commend you all. And look forward to reading all of your work. |
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TheGreenPolarBear Junior Member
since 1999-05-23
Posts 38Kansas |
Well, I'm finally getting around to really responding here. I'm without a doubt a free-verse kinda guy for a couple reasons. First off, I suck at good rhythm, etc. in poetry, so I try to avoid it. Second, I'm a big fan of poetry written by guys like Kerouac and Ginsberg, and I believe that this is a type of poetry that can only happen in free verse. They write in such a spontaneous style that rhyme and anything other than natural speech rhythm would be almost impossible. That's the style I like to write in most, so that's why I write in free verse and now I'm tired and wonder if anyone even is going to read this. So, I'll step down from the mic for now. Bubye. ------------------ The Green Polar Bear "The past is what we live the future for." -- Me |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Red, it's the wookie. Do you have any idea what you have created here? Still, I am unsure what you mean 'free verse' versus 'rhyme'? Where does blank verse fit? i hope you know me well enough to know that, for me, the distinction is unimportant. I have one more thing: criticism (I admit it makes no sense) is the interpretation of a poem and it is the best compliment a poem can receive -- someone spent the time to figure out what you're trying to say and, in the process, came up with new ideas and opinions that, maybe, even the author never considered. This is part of the joy of reading poetry. Your friend, Brad |
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