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Critical Analysis #2
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A Poets Proposal (please critique)
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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A Poets Proposal (please critique) |
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ice Member Elite
since 2003-05-17
Posts 3404Pennsylvania |
A poets proposal * All seasons past and stars emerged in the moment When first our eyes met and closed, shyly Turning away, then second glancing. Sent signals down a path without restraint, Our vital animal spitits diving, Into the sophist tropics of mortally elicit waves. * Being an animal, I am moved by external force And though your form is angelical, I believe you the same, (Though we both hold human ideals) Can we keep our balance, without being emotional If succession is propelled by intimacy? Or will it move constant, in a transcendental way? * Should what we eat and how we live Succeed at keeping us always young, Congress would become unnecessary. And though a plan is to trick this law By pretend,we can scratch the itch that has evolved, Can erect barriers to pause regeneration Though still remaining conscious, releasing The potential of current passions, by casting Lusts poetic spell over our bodies. * This is not to trick you into thinking That this may last forever, and an ever, I am caught up in this instant by your woman charms. Their is no veil that's thick enough To mask my outright thoughts of lust, Think this no attack, but a beg for your surrender. This is my song, imagined, in mystic fantasy I, by impulse, ask friction, by material force Or at least permission to bask In the light of your ideal, in sensual thought. * I renounce all things irrelevant Beg fate be good and glad achieved Ask the heat of lust, be mellowed By duality, intermittent, deep, yet shallow. I do not ask it crown the king of life, Your everydays seem full of happiness As are mine, I confess,I no more than ask Your mistress hand and give promise, Only to be your lover. |
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cynicsRus Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591So Cal So Cool! |
quote: Strangely, these are the only lines in the whole piece that sounded remotely poetic. They compel me to continue reading. Only too late do I discover that I’ve thoroughly wasted my time. quote: You’ve changed tenses here in mid-stream. quote: My Outlook spell check, (you might wish to try it) suggests you may be thinking either; A: “spirits”, B: “spit its”, or C: “spites.” I’d be inclined to pick A. quote: This is an example of sophistry masking as profundity. Come to think of it…so is the rest. quote: Can we maintain our sanity if forced to read on? quote: This may be a good question for the Spiritual Journey’s folder to ponder. quote: Right, toss a little politics into a love poem, that’s sure to make them swoon. (…yes, I did catch your true inference) quote: Umm…let’s see. “scratch the itch”, “erect”, “barriers”, “pause regeneration”, “releasing?” Gee, whatever could this all mean…? * quote: ” …by your woman charms?” I’m sorry; after seeing how you at least made an attempt to play with words earlier—however weak your attempt may have been—this stands out as truly juvenile. quote: Why not be honest and simply title this one, something like…oh, I don’t know… “Eighth Grade Poetry Inspired by Pubescent, Lust Induced Hormones Run Amuck”? Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
"spitits" ..... tsskk tsskkk Sid you need to urgently rectify a grave deficiency in your reference library and acquire the black leather bound 6th impression of Miss Rosey Paynes "Oral BDSM explained" published by Bottomley Press I believe ;o) |
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cynicsRus Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591So Cal So Cool! |
quote: Perhaps it is time I did so. Besides, my reference library at this time, is housed in several cardboard boxes in a couple of antique armoires, (along with some old model airplanes). They’ve been draped in plastic drop cloths, moved to the center of the room, while I determine whether to paint the walls Navajo White, or let my hair down completely and go with something much more colorful. Considering that my Daughter-in-law is Native American, (her mother being Navajo), I’m leaning towards colorful. Since I don’t know how much longer Navajo White will remain politically correct anyway. Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com www.primerhymeetc.com [This message has been edited by cynicsRus (10-12-2003 09:31 PM).] |
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ice Member Elite
since 2003-05-17
Posts 3404Pennsylvania |
CynicRus First of all, I would like to thank you for reading and critiquing my poem....Thank you I must admit that I was taken back at the sarcasim in the reply, but if your method is that of a parent chastising a small child for coloring outside the lines, then so be it. I came here under no pressure from anyone and will have to submit to whatever way this forum is run, if I choose to stay. I suppose humiliation is one method of pushing people forward in their endeavors, I remember a teacher in grade school who did that often to people who were not up to his expectations, I assume heavy doses of Prozac is helping those children as adults forget about that method of conditioning. Although I asked for an "attack" on the poem, you seem to have a penchant for attacking the poet, personally by direct insults... "Can we maintain our sanity if forced to read on? ”this stands out as truly juvenile." "Why not be honest and simply title this one, something like…oh, I don’t know… “Eighth Grade Poetry Inspired by Pubescent, Lust Induced Hormones Run Amuck”?" These are direct, hostile attacks on the poet and his or her ability. (my opinion) and not to the form of the poem. Perhaps the reason that I don't understand this method is because of my ignorance and lack of any previous experience with critics? It must be working for you, and btw, I did notice that you are fair with your method, you did not pick me out as an experiment. I read persona's critique, and saw that even though it was his very first post, you were as hostile to him as you were to me. Thank you for being fair. I can write better poetry, I know that, have done that. What I am guilty of is composing for the "common" reader, something that I am sure now should never been posted in this forum. It is plain that this forum is for academic poets only. Thinking about that I have concluded that that is exactly the way it should be. In all fairness I did see that you attacked my poem directly in several places, and will work on those areas. If I choose to remove the image and language that the common reader admires, I might repost it, in the fashion that only another poet could read and understand. Ford Hume aka ice |
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dorotheaellen New Member
since 2003-10-13
Posts 7 |
I would take the critique to heart and stop seeing it as insulting when you post a poem and ask for honest opinions you must be prepared to understand not everyone loves every poem or sees them as incredible it's up to you to take or leave poetry critique you can learn a lot in poetry forums if you don't take it personal kindly, dorothea |
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cynicsRus Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591So Cal So Cool! |
Ice, For the record; I’ve posted many worse poems on other forums since first coming online, and received even harsher “attacks”. I soon concluded that they weren’t personal attacks on my character, just people expressing themselves in the clearest possible way; one that would evoke the greatest attention. You see, it was usually the bland, innocuous comment that—I at least—tended to ignore most often. Once I began to actually take to heart what was offered and apply it, I found my writing actually improving. I began to realize also, that I was no longer intimidated by anyone’s opinions, no matter how harsh. For I also began to see where my poetry fit in; what made it unique and why it didn’t have to read like anyone else’s work. I’d simply take whatever critique was offered; use what I could apply to my particular poetry and discard the rest. That’s what I encourage you to do. You’ve already shown you can take direct criticism. Make the most of it. Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
The only way to judge the value of this poem is to give it to the woman and see if you get laid.  Too much dualism, not enough materialism for me. Embrace the lust, don't distance yourself from it. Hmmm, probably too much inversion, it sounds a bit archaic. Of course, if it works, don't listen to a word here. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Good to hear from you Brad. But what you said is only partially correct. If the total goal of the poem was to "get laid" then you would be entirely right. If, however, the goal was to write a poem that others, those who may not be the objective of providing that lay, then the plain fact that he got laid, although of substantive value, still has little bearing on whether a disinterested reader truly appreciates the poem. Now I don't bring this up as a critique or comment otherwise on this particular poem. Instead, I mention it solely to clarify or modify your statement. Pete |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Personally, it disturbs me a bit that Brad commented like that because I've held him in opinion above that sort of manners. What an unbecoming suggestion. I would rather be and encounter things a thousand times archaic and detached from this age, when such sayings like "get laid" are currently in mouths of poets and poetic critics. Maybe I am taking bit too seriously. But there is enough coarseness and crudeness in every day life and language, why should we bring it into a poetry forum? I'm not saying I think it should be banned or anything. It just disturbs me a bit; maybe I shouldn't mention it. But that is how it strikes me here. [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-14-2003 02:58 AM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Pete, Fair enough. He did post it here after all. Essorant, Um, what do you think this poem is about? My whole point is that it's precisely this idea of aboveness, spirituality or whatever that hurts the poem -- it takes away from an exploration of the feeling itself. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
This seems unbosoming of feelings of lust and a desire for a union, physically and spiritually. For me though the poet's pursuit of sophistication in wording hinders fluency of expression. My advice would be to tone down the sophistication a few notches and let the lines flow a bit more concisely and directly. Just my deeming. [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-14-2003 02:17 PM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Huh? Why not write a poem? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
My wits are too weary to write a poem. |
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froggy Senior Member
since 2003-06-23
Posts 1893Michigan |
Hi Ice, You know I'm no critique but I liked this poem very much. I have seen your work and loved every one. I myself know you put a lot of thought into your writing. :-) |
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Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
being a common reader and not an intellectual, I find the poem an attempt to appear intellectual. In simplest terms, I find the wording forced and as such, sacrificing in poetic quality. Having read some of your poetry out in the regular forums, I get the impression you felt the need to become something you are not when you entered CA. Not one of your best poems in my opinion only, and I suspect because you were trying to submit for the forum. The poetry in here in my humble unintellectual opinion is usually pretty dry and lacking in feeling, with the focus on technical rather than artistic value. T each his or her own cup of tea, but I enjoy your non-CA poetry more. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Well Tim, I have to respectfully disagree with you a bit here. It is probably true that those who post in CA try a little harder to be technically correct. After all, if they do not then their error will liklely be pointed out rather quickly. That is the nature and the purpose of CA. I think there is no shortage of emotional or other poetic content, however. Regardless how technically correct a poem may be, if it offers nothing to grasp and hold the reader's attention, nothing to identify with, then it will always fail in short order. JMHO, Pete |
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Tim Senior Member
since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794 |
that is what makes the clock tick, differences of opinion. The clinamen in CA is technical aspects of poetry. In Open, technical is not high on the list of priorities. The key is the proper balance, which is why poetry is not too difficult to write, good poetry is hard, and great poetry is limited to a special few. Just my humble opinion. |
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ice Member Elite
since 2003-05-17
Posts 3404Pennsylvania |
Tim Thank you for your reply. Since I started to write (about 5 years ago) I have experimented with many types of poetry, and still do. I enjoy experimenting with period language, metaphor, image, confession etc., still trying in that way to combine all that I love about this art into a personal style. What I have found is that I sometimes need to explain a little about the poem to my readers. I did not do this with this poem, but it seems I should have. In this particular piece, I placed myself in the romantic period, used some archaic groups of language, and arranged the stanzas and their progression as if I was sitting in the mid nineteenth century. Poetry for me is a wild experiment, and what I have found is that (as is natural) the critics likes or dislikes of a poems content is prejudiced by the way they feel in everyday life, and a greater emphasis is put on the story line and how it effects them, then on form arrangement. (If you read the other comments pertaining to this poem) I seem to have opened up a can of worms by critiquing the critics. I must confess that I have enjoyed the lively discussion, but also admit that I probably should not have criticized them, especially in my first post. They take their own personal time to comment here, and no matter how crude I thought their methods were, I should have kept quiet. My business is seasonal and coming to its end for the year. In winter I will post more in this forum...and will try not to stir up another hornets nest... Again, thanks for your reply....... _________ice ><> |
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ice Member Elite
since 2003-05-17
Posts 3404Pennsylvania |
N.A.P I agree with your statement completely> "Regardless how technically correct a poem may be, if it offers nothing to grasp and hold the reader's attention, nothing to identify with, then it will always fail in short order." Both form and content must be looked at with equal severity.... ______ice ><> |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Ice, the only thing I see wrong with your statement above is the "can of worms." You did not open such by explaining or defending your position. And I hope you won't feel pressured to not do so in the future. No one here is a "recognized expert." We are all learning or trying to learn. It is true that some have more experience than others but that is just the way of the world. So feel free to express yourself and speak your mind, respectfully, of course. Pete |
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