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an idea for the next book...
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an idea for the next book... |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg 
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Don't know if anyone's suggested this yet. There's a lot of people who feel that this book was somehow a "popularity contest." Maybe for the next book, we could set it up so that the actual usernames of the people posting the poems for submission don't appear in the voting forum? That would keep people from going into the forum and only bothering to read things from authors they are familiar with (I admit even I was prone to this behavior, considering I don't have enough time to read everything)... I mean... if it's the poem we're voting for, and not the poet, why should the poet's name appear anywhere on it? Maybe for copywright info, at the bottom of the post, at least so the author's name doesn't appear until after a potential voter has bothered to read the poem... This is just a suggestion, not a complaint... I appreciate everything that's being done for the Reflections project and think it will be a fantastic book... but I honestly think keeping the names off the voting page would be a better way of making sure submissions get more equal recognition. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
It's an interesting idea! I know I looked for my favorite poets at first because I knew their work would be good. Then I just started reading and voting...found some gems and some clinkers. But don't you think some poets identities can be discovered through their writing style? |
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Titia Geertman Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182Netherlands |
I went through almost all entries, but voted only if the poem 'touched' to me, it being from a favorite poet or not. Like PoetdeVine I found some real gems too, but there were so many entries I saw, that I don't remember their names anymore, alas. Don't know if Ron is willing to put up a fourth book in the future. I think none of us have the slightest idea what real effort he's putting into getting things done for us properly. Where ever will you find a man who's willing to do what he's been doing for several years now and all for free (for us that is). One way or other, there will always be people complaining. Human nature is build that way. But it's a good suggestion you made. Titia Like scattered leaves...my words will flow |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
I actually think that maybe this and other suggestions about poetry publications should be put on hold UNTIL and IF Ron ever decides to do another. I think bringing it up under a new title and thread is actually just keeping the heat on the book that is in the works. The other threads were closed to let everything calm down. Why bring it up in a new thread so soon... just my thoughts...and I am not wording this in anger (just so I am not misinterpreted) I am sure after the book has been printed and distributed there would be time enough to have suggestions then. To me all this does is keep the "complaints" and/or suggestions in the forefront again...with the chance of another upsetting thread. Sincerely Maureen |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Now there's a good idea. |
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littlewing Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655New York |
LP: awesome idea - but yes I do only respond if something touches me deeply - xxoo |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Nakdthoughts quote: Are you saying that anyone with a question regarding the book or a suggestion for Ron to consider for any future books shouldn’t mention them just in case someone gets upset? Why bring it up now? Because bringing it up later might be too late. I’m fairly sure that Ron at the outset wasn’t naïve enough to expect that everything was going to run smoothly with this book - that no-one was going to have questions and grievances; tantrums whining sessions and disagreements. I’m also fairly sure that Ron understands that if people are allowed to voice their grievances and pose their questions the chances of tantrums, whining sessions and disagreements are lessened – isn’t that why he created a forum dedicated to that very thing. If you have a question or a grievance don’t sit on it until it festers ask your questions and post your grievances, as long as you do it with respect (as in this post). The answers Ron gives may address the grievances of others and in the long run avoid future aggravation. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
CE notice, I did not say it was a bad idea.... notice that the other threads were closed why? Probably because nothing new was being added to the discussions and the name calling etc. had gotten out of hand, And a few of us didn't want it to start all over again. LP's suggestion was fine...I just added mine to his. Am I not allowed to respond? You don't have to answer CE, because I already know the answer to that. Have a good day. I don't plan on this thread being controversial. At least not by me. It is not my style.  M by the way, almost any and every suggestion being asked and repeated on here has already been brought to Ron's attention, and SOME were even emailed to him, informing him that way [This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (05-03-2003 10:51 AM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: The two threads in About Reflections were closed for EXACTLY the reason given in the final post of each thread, nothing more and nothing less. Dixie asked for them to be closed. I don't believe in trying to silence criticism and, in my opinion, the threads should have been allowed to continue. But not at the expense of Dixie. She felt guilty for starting those threads, and while I think her guilt was unnecessary, I also know it was real to her. She's a classy lady, with enough already hanging over her head without us adding to it, so we accepted her request to have the threads closed. And that was the ONLY reason they were closed. |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Nakdthoughts, quote: But if all posts concerning the book were put on hold both this “fine” post and your reply wouldn’t exist. Whether you think this is a good idea or not is irreverent to your suggestion that questions should be put on hold, which was the point I was disagreeing with. quote: I believe the other threads were closed at the request of the originators, which is within their right to request, the fact that nothing new was being added doesn’t mean that nothing new could have been added. quote: There may be a few of you that don’t want it to start all over again but do your rights somehow supersede the rights of people who have genuine questions? quote: I might not have to answer but I will anyway: Of course you are allowed to respond, so am I and so too, hopefully, are those who have questions related to the book. quote: Almost every question and suggestion has been asked? What do you suggest people do with questions and suggestions that don’t fall into this category? Should they put them on hold or feel free to post them? [This message has been edited by Crazy Eddie (05-03-2003 12:30 PM).] |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
quote: Well of course. And some poems submitted would be remembered. But that doesn't change the fact that it takes reading the poem in order to recognize who it was written by. And the objective of my idea is just that--to get more poems read, and then possibly voted for or against. |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
LP, Sorry for hijacking your thread. I think your idea has a lot of merit, in fact for a long time I’ve believed that removing the name of the poet from the forums themselves would be a positive move towards putting more emphasis on the poem rather than the poet. The problem in applying this method to the forums of course is that a large proportion of the membership like interacting with their friends as much if not more than reading poetry, removing the names, as far as those people are concerned, would make things that much more difficult. Your suggestion for the book of course doesn’t have that problem as the emphasis in that area is to find the best poems and not the most popular poet. [This message has been edited by Crazy Eddie (05-03-2003 01:45 PM).] |
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Chanson Senior Member
since 2000-08-19
Posts 1559Up Creek w/Out Paddle |
Quote: "Well of course. And some poems submitted would be remembered. But that doesn't change the fact that it takes reading the poem in order to recognize who it was written by." Excellent point, LP. I'm guessing that alot of poetry is read BECAUSE of the known author (which is OK. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that) but when it comes to something as 'serious' as putting a book together of the best poetry I would like to believe the poems are selected (voted for) on the poetry itself...as opposed to a senario such as, "Well, this isn't (insert favorite author's name) "best" and I see some typos/sloppy punctuation, etc. BUT I can't imagine a book without (insert again favorite author's name) poem in it so I'll vote for it anyway." No doubt word of mouth would spread quickly as to who wrote what but the initial read and subsequent vote would be 'untainted', so to speak. (Please pardon my archaic way of quoting you, LP. I have yet to find the "Quote" button. If you could direct this blind woman to it I'd be most appreciative!  ) |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
I like the idea of 'anonymous submissions' but do hope we hold off on this for discussion after this wonderful Reflections book is in my anxious hands.  Namaste, and happy poetry pennings to all. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Chanson - If you ever need to see how someone did something in a poem or reply at piptalk, just click the "edit post" icon on their post... it will take you to the editing screen where you'll see exactly what they typed to make their post appear as it did. Of course, you won't be able to change what the post says, but that won't stop you from copy/pasting from it or just taking note of how it was done. So just go to my post and click the "edit post" button (  ), and you'll see how a quote is done. It's rather simple, but there's no button and I myself didn't know until Christopher told me how it was done. God becomes as |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
oh wait... I just tried that myself and it didn't show the simple form of the code, just a whole bunch of HTML jargon... so I'll just tell you... To do a quote, just type quote in square brackets, [quote] at the start, and /quote in square brackets, [/quote], at the end. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Since we're trying to get this thread back on track, I'll add my opinion to LP's suggestion. I think hiding the poet's name would only affect the Member's who are already reading and voting as we all agree they should. The few who are subverting the intent of voting would continue to do so, with a lot more background email being exchanged about who is who. The benefits, in short, would be minimal, affecting only a small group of people who live at neither extreme of the gradient. Unfortunately, the disadvantages would impact everyone. Authors could no longer thank or otherwise interact with their readers, and we would have to devise policies for those that "give away" their identity. I would have to change the software to avoid the silver folders that signify an "unbump" reply, and obviously the Tabulation page would require major overhaul (especially as it relates to Indirect Votes). Those are fairly heavy costs, for what I think would be minimal benefit. I've actually given this some little thought because I've planned, for over a year now, to open a new forum called Masquerade. Poetry would be posted anonymously, and other Members would try to "guess" who the author is, based on style and content. The authors would purposely try to write in a new style (a definite learning experience for many, I think). There are two things that have kept this idea on the back burner. The first is the same as I listed above; some fairly hefty software changes. (Along with those already mentioned, I would have to hide the IP log from our Admins, so they could fairly participate.) The second holdup is that I would really like to award monthly prizes (maybe free books?) to a "winner," but have been unable to come up with a suitable way to break the inevitable ties. Masquerade Outline: * The "Post New Topic" screen for this forum would include a new field, where the Member would enter the "Alias" under which the poem or story will be posted. A different alias can (and should) be used for each entry. * Some time before the month is over, the author of the poem MUST reply to their own thread, though they can be just as sneaky as they want (pretending to guess or throwing in a red herring). Part of the strategy for the author would be deciding when to reply, and part of the strategy for other Members would be deciding when to guess (wait long enough, and you'll know the author is limited to those in the thread). * Members would be given a maximum of (say) three guesses per poem. * Poems must be a minimum length (say, 20 lines), so the other Members will have enough material to make reasonable guesses. * The author must publicly admit, in the thread, when they have been unmasked. * The winning author would be the one who fooled the most people, as determined by wrong guesses and possibly spread over all their entries for the month. Being unmasked negates all wrong guesses in any given thread. The winning Member would be the one who had the highest number of successful unmaskings in the month. And I would like to occasionally give a very subjective "Most Brazen" award for someone who fools us in spite of giving away meaningful clues. For example, if Balladeer wrote about Toerag and we didn't guess who it was, that would be brazen. If Kit posted under an alias of Tik, that would be brazen (though if Nan tried that trick, I'd have to call it crazy). |
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passing shadows Member Empyrean
since 1999-08-26
Posts 45577displaced |
 that sounds like great fun! (but a major headache for you Ron)Ron, you are way ahead of the game here, aren't you? I have to say that most things that are brought up here in this house have already been thought about before, and then some. I am impressed with the thought that you've given to "redecorating"...improving on what is fabulous already! (I have to give credit where credit is due) Well, whatever develops, I'm here, standing behind you 100% [This message has been edited by passing shadows (05-03-2003 04:19 PM).] |
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Chanson Senior Member
since 2000-08-19
Posts 1559Up Creek w/Out Paddle |
quote: Well, it kinda worked (after many edits). I'll practice! *LOL Thanks to LP for showing me that neat little trick! Ron, thanks muchly for the explanation. It does sound like alot of work for little merit. However, your Masquerade Forum sounds like a fab idea! A bunch of us did this in another forum at Halloween and it was a great success. [This message has been edited by Chanson (05-03-2003 04:48 PM).] |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
LOL I love the idea Ron!! |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Ron, The Masquerade idea sounds complicated but very interesting, a problem I can foresee though is the infrequent posters (like me) will have an obvious advantage. Another is the fact that it wouldn’t so much be promoting good poetry as good guessing, though the participants might be encouraged to read more poets. Why can’t it just be a simple anonymously posted poem with the one with the highest number of unique replies being the winner. That way the best poem wins and attempting to cheat would entail admitting to your friends that you’re a cheat by garnering votes surreptitiously. “Dear Bud vote for me in the anonymous vote……your trusted friend A. N. Idiot” If you closed the forum after a set period and left it open only for voting for the rest of the month the best poem in the opinion of the members should end up the winner. As I said I’m interested – so interested in fact that I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is in the form of a donation towards the prizes for a trial period. Whatever form the new forum takes. [This message has been edited by Crazy Eddie (05-03-2003 05:53 PM).] |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Eddie, I do see it as a way to learn and grow as a poet. Imagine a dyed in the wool rhymer writing blank verse! Or vice versa. And if you have an advantage, so be it. Limit the number of times someone can win/post...it's a cool idea. |
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Chanson Senior Member
since 2000-08-19
Posts 1559Up Creek w/Out Paddle |
Ron, I've been kicking this idea around and throwing it into the pot of suggestions for what it's worth. 2 cents? Probably not even that. *L Anyway, if the future finds you entertaining another book publication and the idea of having the poems submitted anonymously appealing, perhaps posting and voting were to be the only two aspects to the process. What I mean is to simply have a vote field when we click on the reply button. It sounds sorta cold, especially in a site which exemplifies sharing and cammeraderie... but then, book submission/publication is not an ordinary event. Like I said, it's just a thought and I know it is not relevant to the here and now but it was on my mind and similar ideas are in the thread already so I decided to share. I feel the need to thank you again for all the hard work you are doing for us out of the goodness of your heart. I have no complaints, only appreciation for you. |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
PDV, I agree, but what are the chances of anyone guessing my poetry whatever style or form I choose? Under that system the poets that post the least gain the greatest advantage and the poem they post could be the worst poem in the world but still win – you may as well just play hangman! [This message has been edited by Crazy Eddie (05-03-2003 06:30 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: I tend to agree with Sharon, and think that encouraging greater diversity would be worth what might be less than perfect results. And, uh, I hate to burst any bubbles, but your poetry is VERY distinctive and recognizable. If anything, you might be at a serious disadvantage. After all, we're used to seeing you change names all the time.  |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Can it be configured as a 'discussion' forum? That way bumping is allowed. Can that forum have one color of folder..say green or blue that never changes? |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Ron. I can see the merits of encouraging poets to diversify and try different forms but I still believe that rewarding the poet for creating a good poem has merit too. Isn’t it possible to do both at the same time? It’d double up on prizes and possibly prize winners but it’d satisfy both aims - to engender a wider appreciation of poetry forms and styles and at the same time give recognition to a job (poem) well done. BTW - My regular name change is well overdue, I’ve simply been struggling choosing a new name. The bad news is that I’ve decided my next incarnation will be posting more poetry, the good news though is he (she?) won’t be the debating type. [This message has been edited by Crazy Eddie (05-03-2003 07:58 PM).] |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Crazy Eddie I don't believe that for one second debating is in your blood. As for this idea - I am loving it! Not sure I could play but I would sure enjoy watching and trying to figure out who the poets are. Ron now I know why you stay up nights, dreaming up these things right |
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Titia Geertman Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182Netherlands |
Don't think I could disguise my tongue One glimpse and you would recognize my song But I don't mind at all your hear Though I wouldn't recognize you I fear  Titia Like scattered leaves...my words will flow |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
It would give me GREAT pleasure if I could just fool you, Ron - THAT would be great fun...  |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
It ought to be fun to see what pans out... |
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wranx Member Elite
since 2002-06-07
Posts 3689Moved from a shack to a barn |
The "Masquerade" forum sounds like great fun, for both the writer and the reader (guesser). To garner votes/guesses surreptitiously would only lessen the experience for the one doing it. (It's not likely Ron is gonna pony up a cruise for two as the grand prize, is it?) So? there would be little to gain and much fun to lose by playing outside the rules. Sounds terrific! I'd love to see it. And another thanks to Ron for creating/managing/maintaining/ this oasis. Ed... |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
A masquerade would be outrageous fun! I'm all for it, but can't imagine how you'd pull this one off Ron, unless you give up those last two hours each day that you're away from here! |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
Thats just my style too. the only thing i can say against it is that if a person replys to their own poem and pretends to guess it's someone else, people might not susspect them. And what about good writers who disguise their writing to make it look poor? Oh well, we'll wait and see what you come up with. I said I'm going to buy a gun and start a war, |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
Well, I don't know how my missed this thread up until now ... but I am absolutely LOVING the idea of a masquerade forum! Believe it or not, I do write in more than iambic heptameter, rofl and over half my earlier poems are free verse. I'd love to give myself a reason to mix it up some more, and something like this would be a treat, and a real challenge! Prizes or not ... it would just be plain fun! "Tik" would love to play along, Ron! I think it would be great as a forum unto itself. Perhaps the inevitable hurdles it would take to get this up and running smoothly can be looked at as lessons learned toward fine-tuning a derivative of this for a future voting platform for a new book. Excellent thread LP, and wonderfully creative ideas pouring out from it. This is great! |
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