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A Heartshaped Element
| Philosophy 101 |
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A Heartshaped Element |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
If love were an element, which would be a more appropriate adjective: "naturally occuring" or "synthetic"? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Love ain't an element. It's a decision.  [This message has been edited by Ron (04-27-2009 07:16 AM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Okay. Hmmm. I'm finding this situation a little bit sardonically ironic that Ron had to edit my previous post.  But I stand by it, as it stands, edited: "Love ain't an element. It's a decision." why-the-hell-is-everything-so-complicated?  |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Although I agree with Karen for the most part.. I will go with this. If it's real, then it's not synthetic, right? So, if we are talking real love then, if it is an element, it has to be naturally occurring. I love logic. Even if it's only my own. Hey Karen, can you email me at work and tell me what was edited?  "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I actually have no idea...I don't think I was rude or anything. (Was I rude?) I dunno...did I subconsciously type a cuss word? I honestly don't recall typing anything other than what is written there. I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it though. Lost enough sleep in my time, I have.  I'll write you soon, I promise, sweetcheeks. (Um, I'm referring to Susan there.) |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Maybe Ron is just messin' with ya. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Or abbreviate one? |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Yanno, I have been around here for a few years... and I still don't know how to do that whole quote thing.. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
What grounds would one have for saying "synthetic"? Stephen |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Synthetic. . |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
In this context what would synthetic mean? Stephen |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Ron? My apologies...if I cussed or even abbreviated a cuss word, well, I am embarrassed to confess that I'm so sorely in need of social etiquette skills that I didn't even notice. Please also know that I'm so startled by this, that I will work harder on cleaning up my vocabulary! Wow. *shaking my head* I knew it was bad, but when I'm bad and don't know I'm bad, that's pretty bad. *wince* My apologies.  I'm sorry. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
And OH. Because I do enjoy teasing Essorant (just a little bit, lovie, because you take it so well) I'd like to offer Essorant an apology for whatever it was I typed. (Seriously, I don't remember what it was) If it was an "f" and "k" together? That stands for a simple forehead kiss. (This can be validated by the lovely Susan Caldwell, and the equally lovely and diligent Kari, who did once e mail me to ask what that meant to be sure that I wasn't being naughty again.) And yep, Ess--I broke the "red wine only" rule last night, so nod, I had been drinking white russians, and yes, I tend to be a bit, um, more playful and more than a little bit risque when I've had too much to drink. I have no idea what I wrote, so I have no idea if I typed a bit of a swing atcha or not. But I offer my sincere apology just in case I did. If I didn't direct any ill will toward you, please feel free to use this apology retroactively for all the times I did offend you, k? And honestly, this all started when I tried to do a simple gesture of kindness by bringing my mother-in-law a movie--she was...bored. (Now she is hungover and um, no doubt she is blaming ME for last night's misadventure as she tries to explain her new budget problem to her boyfriend. There are poker machines in the daiquiri shop, and hey, she was really doing well for a while on the deuces wild game--she kept hitting five of a kind on a streak unlike any I've seen before. Unfortunately, she did not "cash out" before losing it all again because it is really difficult to have good judgement when one has been drinking white russians spiked with everclear.) My husband isn't talking to me either...but I'm confident he will eventually. I suspect that he does love me.  I also suspect that he hates himself for it too.Which sort of qualifies my point that sometimes love ends up being a decision. Sort of? heh-heh? *peace*? <--for true!I'll be over there--> In bed. Alone. Sheepishly quiet. ciao darlin's, and thank you Ron, for cleaning up my mess yet again. sigh |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. http://www.motherbird.com/Andrade.html . |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Love in The Western World by Denis de Rougemont A classic study of the origins of what we now think of as "love" as it emerged from the tradition of Courtly Love in the middle ages. What we now think of as love may well be a reasonably modern invention, or perhaps a way of organizing very old thoughts and feeling in what may have been a radical and inventive way. Some love this book, others hate it, but it's well written and thought provoking. You can get it apparently for about ten bucks if you want to buy it; your library will have it much more cheaply. After I first read it, I went out and bought myself my own copy because it's the sort of thing I will sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and pull off the shelves to re-read a few pages and mull them over. You can't do that if the book's in the library now, can you? The books that do that for somebody aren't always predictable, though. Ruminatively speaking, Mr. Bob |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Though there are different kinds of love, and different cultural time-bound expressions of the same, love is "natural" in the sense that it is a universal venture. I suppose one could also say that it is "synthetic" in the sense of it often being contrary to our lower nature, and requiring some creativity. It seems that we're called on to intelligently decide (as Karen said) to love in the forms of yielding and working for someone else's good ... of making sure that love (like nurturing a plant) is more than a self-centered emotion. I suppose then, that one might say that love is both natural and artificial. But as John's linked poem seems to suggest (to me), love is not necessary to existence. There may be failure, and forsaking love itself is a possibility. Stephen |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
No need to apologize, Serenity. I know you didn't mean anything (too) evil |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. Women go on about love Men simply go on . |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Essorant is a gentleman and a scholar. (How do you say pardon my cliche' in latin?) *wink* And tsk...John, that's quite a generalization--but allow me to consider that what you say as true - is that why women statistically outlive men? ?Now, let me proofread what I just wrote to check for indiscretions.  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
quote: "Confused wretch" would be more accurate. quote: I don't think there is one word specially for saying "cliche" in Latin, but "pardon my trite words" I think would be ignosce meis verbis tritis |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thank you. Now I have a fancy title for the book I'm not writing. |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Women go on about love Men simply go on about nothing much. Fixed that for you John. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I just had drinks with a guy who looked like Kirk Douglas... I have a date with him for next Wednesday! He was handsome, suave, and I felt like I tapped past the sandstone into the oil of the greatest stories ever told. I am the luckiest girl in the world. (And my husband, is ...um...talking to me again!) *chuckle* Nod. He's using choice words--but he's tawkin'... |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "Men at forty Learn to close softly The doors to rooms they will not be Coming back to." Donald Justice . Of course there are always residual idiots and congenital hunters who can not live without the game . . . . |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
laughing...oh John, "the GAME"? I have a friendly date with an elderly gentleman for a couple of beers. I enjoyed his company. He has led an interesting life, and we share a mutual interest in advertising and public relations. (He's going to bring a portfolio of some of the campaigns he has worked on.) I'm married. I took VOWS. But I have no intention of staying locked up in this house for another twenty years. Don't you enjoy going out and making new friends? My husband isn't much interested--he prefers to wow the crowd at the karoake club. I don't mind that either, but I do tend to drink way too much to find the majority of that entertainment tolerable. (LOUD is bad enough, but off-key and loud requires too much of the liquid sustenance.) I like you John, but I do worry about you sometimes. You don't seem to have a lot of fun. Maybe you do, though. I've been mistaken before and I'm sure I will be mistaken again. Carpe' da diem, lovie!  And hmmm....they just opened a dance studio nearby too. I've always wanted to learn how to tango... |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Here is an attempt to make the question more understandable: Does the thing that becomes love become love by growing naturally into it in nature or by being shaped that way through the many arts of humans? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I think you're trying to define love with a cookie cutter. I'm unsure if it works that way. If the relationship defines your "element" then it is variable, yes? I'll check back in tomorrow morning. I'm going to bed. g'nite Ess. And? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Hey. I am back. I had much time to think... and thinking about love, and the definition of love, didn't cheer me up. I truly wish there was an absolute definition for love. It would save us all so much time, but then? If there was not--and yes, I'll say element--if there was not an element of faith to love, I suspect that love would lose its elusively mystical value. If we could say, that this--in this legal contract, right here--love is defined, then there would be much less allure. Love would lose its poetic value, and become the elusive x in some algebraic equation. Love...I sigh. It is the nth to the nth degree--the sum total of all that we have experienced individually, and add to that the sum total of our idealizations of all that it could be--or should be--our idealizations of love seem to be dependant on what we feel is lacking in our lives and in ourselves in the moment. Love is transcendent and beyond even THAT. Love is what we hope will fill that empty ache in the cavity of our chest. Oh I wish there were an absolute definition of love. I truly do. But imagine the mathematical possibilities, when we must realize that love is an individual experience, and that romantic love depends on those individuals being in agreement, in the right place, at the right time, in the right geography... Then, if we add the vows of marriage, our values come into that equation. If we have children within the bounds of that equation, then our values are amplified. And sometimes (even most times) our values are so subconscious that we don't even know them at all until we experience the meeting of our selves out side of ourselves in the form of our selves in a child. All of the above or none of the above? Because we are human, and evolving, we redefine the definitions as we do so. The idea that we can pair up, and marry, in a quintessential moment of unity and actually stay married, two people behaving as one being, either through devout loyalty, or sheer stubborn will; it is a fantastic beating of the odds in a communion of flesh that absolutely demands sacrifice. Thus, at times, it becomes a very unromantic decision. I speak of marriage now. I suspect that anyone who has had a long-term relationship can appreciate the idea that there is comfort in that. Like having a "war buddy". (You might not always enjoy sharing the foxhole, but at least you know what your mate is capable of, and hopefully, those capabilities make up for our own shortcomings.) And OH. Beware of peacetime.  Ultimately, I think that we do not define love. Love, and how, or whether we choose to express it, defines us. It may be totally lame to quote Lennon/McCartney, but I shall: "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." <--talk about an algebraic equation, eh? *smile* p.s. Dear Oprah, Sometimes you are wrong. Love does indeed hurt. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "shaped that way through the many arts of humans?" Yes, especially Western humans. Joseph Campbell in his "Transformations of Myth Through Time" remarked on this. . |
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