Honor - pipTalk Forums

How to Join	Member's Area	Private Library	Search	Sanctuary		Login
Main Forums	Discussion	Tech Talk	Mature Content	Archives	A home without a wall, Our haven without ends, A circle we all call Our Family of Friends!

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

0 posted 2008-01-10 08:29 PM

.

“Can a man live without honor?”

Charlton Heston as
Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar
in “El Cid” (1961)

What is honor,
and can a man live, in the context
intended in the movie, without it?

(PS:

“Strength and honor”

From the movie: “Gladiator” (2000),
so the word hasn’t gone away.)

.

TomMark
Member Elite

since 2007-07-27

Posts 2133
LA,CA

1 posted 2008-01-10 10:07 PM

If the definition is "honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions".

Then I say, many living ones don't have any of them.

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

2 posted 2008-01-11 12:35 PM

I think the best translation is our English word worship. I mean as it was originally used:

Worship (n.)
O.E. worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (W.Saxon) "condition of being worthy, honor, renown," from weorð "worthy" (see worth) + -scipe (see -ship). Sense of "reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being" is first recorded c.1300. The original sense is preserved in the title worshipful (c.1300). The verb is recorded from c.1200.
[from etymonline.com]

TomMark
Member Elite

since 2007-07-27

Posts 2133
LA,CA

3 posted 2008-01-11 12:46 PM

Sir Essorant, where were you when we tried to tell Sir Balladeer that war did not rhyme with far?

Now "worship"

Man can not live without worship. Each time man looks into a mirror, that is the time for self-worship. And if there is no mirror, he will manage to find water to look at himself. Am I included? huh?

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

4 posted 2008-01-11 07:16 PM

Sir Essorant, where were you when we tried to tell Sir Balladeer that war did not rhyme with far?

I don't know. Does he speak an unstandard dialect? In standard English words with war have an "ore"-like sound: war (w"ore"), warden (w"ore"den), toward (tow("ore")d).Therefore war rhymes with lore, instead of far. Just like worth rhymes with earth, instead of north.

Man can not live without worship. Each time man looks into a mirror, that is the time for self-worship. And if there is no mirror, he will manage to find water to look at himself. Am I included? huh?

I agree. No man is ever without honor at all. No matter how low a man becomes, he still has honour. It may be ignored and neglected, but I don't think honor may ever be removed from a man.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

5 posted 2008-01-11 08:29 PM

.

"It may be ignored and neglected, but I don't think honor may ever be removed from a man."

Then no man need do anything
to maintain it. So what was all
the trouble about before?

.

Essorant
Member Elite

since 2002-08-10

Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada

6 posted 2008-01-11 09:23 PM

You are right.
It is not about having honour. We all have honor. But it is about acknowledging that we still have honor and standing up for it, even when we are fallen to the lowest.

TomMark
Member Elite

since 2007-07-27

Posts 2133
LA,CA

7 posted 2008-01-11 09:29 PM

It is about keep dusting!!!!

Bob K
Member Elite

since 2007-11-03

Posts 4208

8 posted 2008-01-18 03:48 AM

     Actually, I think the concept itself conceptually and linguistically may be at a crossroads as we speak.  I think the Founders thought the concept central to the United States.
I am not a scholar on the subject, so I'd like to toss the notion out to get people's thoughts on the matter, but the notion of "impeachment" seems to me likely intimately ties up with honor.

     We tend to think today of impeachment as removal of an official from office, but that doesn't see to be the case, does it?  I suspect that the original idea behind impeachment may have, sadly, feel a bit foreign to us today.  What has been impeached may not have been the official, but the official's HONOR, with general agreement by the officials peers and superiors, depending of the official's rank.

     Duels were fought at that time over honor.  Such a stunning mass indictment would probably at a minimum force an official to leave office with a shocking loss of face.  Suicides have been known to happen over less.  Such a punishment could hardly have been more severe.

     Thoughts today about the notion of honor itself, the honor of specific government officials, and the honor of the government as a whole seem to have shifted enormously over this time.  I don't know if it's for the better or for the worse overall.  What Auden said—was it about the '50's—about it being "a lowdown dishonest decade" are as chilling today as they were then, aren't they?

     BobK.

	⇧ top of page ⇧
All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format.