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Philosophy 101
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internet stokers...
| Philosophy 101 |
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internet stokers... |
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curiouse Member
since 2006-03-21
Posts 277england |
hello. what are your view points on internet stokers. i mean we open up our feelings and share things with each other.and i enjoy talking to people. but to think that there could be people on this site or anywere on the internet who want to come after you or only care about hurting you. someone yesterday told me not to tell people too much like my age etc. and it really scared me, i am never ever going to give out any info even my age ever again. but this is restricting us a lot and these people are sick. just talking about them sends shivers down my spine.you never know if your talking to a guenuinly nice person or a you know abuser or something. i'm looking for you...always... |
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icebox Member Elite
since 2003-05-03
Posts 4383in the shadows |
The veneer of civilization always is more thin than most people would like to believe. The reality that each person must be responsible for their own safety and security is an idea increasingly out of vogue in western societies. However, clinging to a false belief that the government, or the police, or the military, or even our neighbors will, or could, protect each of us simply helps to make us potential victims. |
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Mysteria 
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
I have always believed the best offense is a good defense. Be informed and ready, so you know what sincerity or insincerity look and sound like. You are certainly right about giving out information on the internet as well, the less people know of you, and where you live the better. We all have to realize that the internet is an escape from reality for many and that sometimes even if you think you are talking to another girl, it could be a man, or visa versa, as you can be anything, or anyone you want in the cyber world. A good idea is to educate yourself on internet safety for one thing, and here is a good site for doing just that. Wired Safety Organization |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
I'm going to try and comment/contribute to this thread again...since someone deleted my comment yesterday...and by the way, if I offened anyone I'm very sorry... You questioned this: but to think that there could be people on this site or anywere on the internet who want to come after you or only care about hurting you. My answer first to you would be cautious who you give personal information out to....we would like to believe it's a perfect world, but unfortunately it is not, and there are people who this world who like to hurt others...these people to me are bullies...men/women who have no conscience or don't care about hurting others, they are only concerned with immediate and self gratification...we are hearing out here on the news everyday about internet preditors...and what parents should do to oversee their childrens activities on the internet. I'm a giving person, warm and friendly and would like to believe that these people do not exist, but they do...and I'll say the same thing I said yesterday...but in a perhaps different way...If any of these people would come to my home and try to hurt mine (family, friends, grand children...etc) I have taken target practice and lessons and I would protect them all, with my life...if it came down to it...I would...this is not revenge, but a warning to anyone who would harm a child, or family member, or friend...and I think anyone out there who reads this feels the same way. Something kicks in when you see someone being bullied, picked on or harmed in any way...it's a parental thing I think...but yes, I would definately not hesitate to protect my own...and if that offends anyone, I'm terribly sorry...but it's a matter of taking care of those who are less equipped to protect themselves against criminals, preditors and bullies who would harm them. Now, back to the thread...I feel sad, that for anything good out there, there is always someone who finds a way to break the law or gain in a corrupt way from it...but that's life, so it is my suggestion to play it safe and think of yourself and your families safety, and be cautious, or counsel first with someone you know, who might help you make decissions about this. Good topic...thank you for bringing it to our tables. I really, really do hope I haven't offended anyones feelings here...and if I have, I'd really like to know about it so I might be able correct it. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Lee, your predilection for violence is either off-topic (when they come to your house they stop being computer stalkers) or a gross overreaction to a non-violent crime. That's why your earlier post was removed and why this one is very close to the line. Fortunately for the rest of the world, you don't get to decide who gets shot. Most of us still live in a world where law and order prevail over target practice. If you would like to continue a discussion of why blowing people away when you get offended isn't appropriate, please start a new thread. |
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Knubian Junior Member
since 2006-03-25
Posts 35Louisiana, United States |
I would like to add to this thread by sharing a letter I recieved from the BBB - London, in regards to a possible scam-email I recieved from a potential fake lottery organization earlier this month. I know your initial thread seemed to be more of a personal nature, but I think scaming is all the same; and of course, this may aide others if they themselves or a friend or a family member may or may not recieve a similar letter(s). This was their response to my inquiry about more information on this company: Hello We would not have any information on this company, as it is not located in our service area. We are the BBB of Western Ontario and are located in London, Ontario, Canada. There are no Better Business Bureaus in the United Kingdom. I have posted some information below in regards to these types of scams. Hope it helps Cross-Border Lottery Scams Surging By: BBB of Western Ontario Consumers across North America are contacting Better Business Bureaus in Canada and the US to ask about the legitimacy of notices they received by mail and spam e-mail announcing that they have won substantial sums of money in a lottery. Consumers were given a telephone number to call and then instructed to cash the certified cheques in amounts ranging from $2,000 to $9,000 in order to collect their “entire award package.” They were then instructed to wire the money or send their own personal cheque back to the lottery company in the same amount, to cover fees or taxes. The names and bank account numbers of reputable and valid businesses appear on the certified cheques. These companies have advised the BBB that they are the victims of identity theft and that their names and account numbers are being used fraudulently in the lottery promotions. While most of these lottery notification letters deservedly end up in the trash, there appears to be an increase in the number of people who are taking them seriously. This BBB receives a number of calls every week from people trying to check on the legitimacy of the company named on the cheque. The BBB cautions consumers not to allow enticing dollar signs to obstruct common sense. If you are being asked to send money or provide access to your bank account or credit card number in order to claim your winnings, then it is an attempt to steal your money or your identity by a person pretending to be a lottery official If you have won a legitimate, legal lottery you do not have to pay anything to claim the prize ------------------------------------ My letter to the BBB-London ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: myself - (edited) [mailto:knubianknight@msn.com] Sent: April 20, 2006 8:01 PM To: info@bbblondon.on.ca Subject: I received an email from this organization calling themselves The United Nations Lottery. They said that they picked my website from 1000's of others and as a result I have won £750,000 (Seven Hundred And Fifty Thousand Pounds, and I just wanted to check them out... just in case. -------------------------------------- The info from this organization is as follows: -------------------------------------- The United Nations Lottery Headquatres 270 John Downey Drive New Britain CT 06051 LONDON UNITED KINGDOM Tel: +44703-190-6112 FAX:+44870-950-3304 Contact; Mr. Terry Smith 270 John Downey Drive New Britain CT 06051 LONDON UNITED KINGDOM Official Email: agentterrysmith7@yahoo.co.uk Endeavour to contact him with the following informations: 1,Full Names 2,Contact Address 3,Telephone Number 4,Age 5,Sex 6,Nationality 7,Occupation 8, Winning information i,e 8a, ticket number, 8b, batch number, 8c, reference number, 8d, serial number LUCKY DREW NUMBERS bonus no. e.t.c Congratulations from me and members of staff of THE UNITED NATIONS LOTTERY. Yours faithfully, Rose Wood (Mrs) Online coordinator for THE UNITED NATIONS LOTTERY Sweepstakes International Program For and on behalf of the Office of the Secretary General OF THE UNITED NATIONS PLEASE NOTE THAT WINNERS WHO RESIDE CLOSE TO PEOPLE WHO WERE AFFECTED BY THE HURRICANE KATERINA AND THE HURRICANE RITA WILL BE REQUIRED TO DONATE TWENTY PERCENT OF THEIR WINNINGS TO THOSE VICTIMS ----------------------------------------- There are all kinds on the internet, and if you don't protect yourself, your family and friends, you can get your feelings hurt or get taken for every savings you have. Regards, |
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Moon Dust
since 1999-06-11
Posts 2177Skelmersdale, UK |
In my view its not just the internet thats scary, but just meeting people in general. Be aware of who your talking to always because anybody could say they are someone they are not even if you can see them face to face. Anybody can pretend. If your afraid of the dark, then why did you come? |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
Shouldn't this thread be in 'feelings'? Or how about a new forum, entitled 'fear-mongering'? The only philosophical angle I can think of is "there's nothing to fear but fear itself". If we are to take the post above as a usual reaction to 'the unknown stranger', then we're all doomed. Sure, don't talk to strangers when you're a child, but if you continue that premise as an adult, you'll wallow in ignorance forever. Walk like a local. Onelove (*ps, that's 'stalkers'...a 'stoker's' something quite different.) LeeJ; I perish the thought of guns being allowed in homes. Picture this, a youth from junkie parents is hungry. He's never been taught right from wrong, yet is young enough to learn. He breaks into your house one night, for food, and anything that he could take, for he has been taught opportunism. As he moves around, you wake, and reach for your gun, fearful. What do you think happens next? Chances are, he'll be dead in a few seconds, and you'll be a murderer. For what? A few 'possesions'. LeeJ, where's your compassion? A few years ago, something similar happened in Britain. A farmer shot a 14 year old dead, in the back, as the youth ran from the farmers house after being disturbed from his robbery. There was no 'self-defence' involved, the boy was running away. I call for a complete gun amnesty. All over the world, people are killed for dubious, personal reasons. Killing, or attempting to kill is murder. *It's that simple. *take note, everyone living agreeably in States that upholds the death-penalty. Call yourselves Christians...ah, the Constantine Affect. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
The only philosophical angle I can think of is "there's nothing to fear but fear itself". Kif Kif, have you ever been mugged, stalked, had a gun held to your head....had your hands tied behind your back, pushed to the floor on your belly, and wondered if they were going to beat you to death with a baseball bat or shoot you with the gun? Have you ever been robbed, had your mother stalked & harrassed, or lived with a neighbor next door who was let out of jail after he murdered someone, beat his wife unmercifully, drank and kept you awake until all hours of the night, bragged that he stole? If we are to take the post above as a usual reaction to 'the unknown stranger', then we're all doomed. I'd much rather be safe then sorry...and will rear my grand daughter to be as such. I do nod, smile, and say hello or good morning to strangers and will spark up a conversation with strangers where ever I go. Anyone who knows me, knows that about me... Sure, don't talk to strangers when you're a child, but if you continue that premise as an adult, you'll wallow in ignorance forever. I don't call it ignorance, nor wallowing, and totally disagree with that statement..I think it is realistic to be cautious... Walk like a local. Onelove Sorry, but I'm not understanding that comment? (*ps, that's 'stalkers'...a 'stoker's' something quite different.) sorry I can't spell LeeJ; I perish the thought of guns being allowed in homes. Picture this, a youth from junkie parents is hungry. He's never been taught right from wrong, yet is young enough to learn. He breaks into your house one night, for food, and anything that he could take, for he has been taught opportunism. As he moves around, you wake, and reach for your gun, fearful. What do you think happens next? Chances are, he'll be dead in a few seconds, and you'll be a murderer. For what? A few 'possesions'. Kif Kif, once again, I say, until a family member is threatened, or your life is hanging by a thread...or your robbed, on the brink of being beaten to death...well, I simply think when the shoes on the other foot and much closer to home, then one understands. I was raised in a family who hunted and fished for food. I see nothing wrong with guns, it is not the guns, which is a thing that kills, it is the nuts behind the guns that should be put away. It is the kids who are raised with little or no respect for themselves, let alone, supervison, little respect for others, including themselves; and the privacy of others. Parents today don't seem to want to deal with discipline, so they allow the child to do as they wish...what good will come of that? Its the kids who have been brain washed by violence in video games, on TV, who unfortunately, have no concept of the value of life. If you don't believe me, then stop and talk to a police officer on this subject. I was told that most parents don't care...kids sneak out of their bedrooms during the night...and parents don't care...parents today are actually afraid to spank their children....?????? I have spoken with many officers on this subject, my son is a police officer, and they live in the real world, meaning, they deal with the dredges of society every day....where and how do you think these people got they're start? When I was a child, we were trained, we didn't touch anything that wasn't ours...we would have never even thought of taking a gun to school. There was a big big difference in discipline then...yes, I was spanked, and when I was, I deserved it...I'm not a lessor person for it, didn't mar me for life, and I ended up a strick mother but a fair one...I believed in discipline...rules and regulations constitute respect for others... I believe we as citizens are inclinded to live in denial, away from the rest of the world in an invisible plastic bubble that we've created for ourselves. My compassion and love for mankind is two fold...but attest anyone who harms another human being or bullies a child, or stalks children. I am on the fence about the death sentence, but I do believe in God, deeply and with all my heart. I believe if someone takes the life of another, they are a menace to society???? NO? (Please note the questions marks). I believe an internet stalker is also a menace to society. Have you watched any of Nightline's reports on this subject? It is a whole different ball game when they show up at your door... My comment was from experiences I have lived and learned from...am I wrong, whose to say? Are you wrong? I cannot condem you or judge you for your opinions...your feelings, but what I can do, is try to understand your comments and perhaps clarify my own...in that, maybe, just maybe, we'll live in a more patient, compassionate and understanding world? One thing I won't do, is mock you or condiscend you for your beliefs...because winning an aurgument at that cost of someone elses feelings is just not worth it, yanno? There are no winners...only hurt feelings and a soul's heart scarred. IN the same, I admire you for standing up for what you believe in. whose to say, who is right and who is wrong...just b/c I feel someway about things doesn't say I'm right and your wrong, or visa versa...yanno? All we can do as human beings is to keep trying... not outa fear, but with caution...in today's world... you have no idea of the close calls I had because I've trusted strangers, nor do you have any idea of the wonderful strangers I met...I say, we should try not to judge until we walk in another man's shoes....it's a great world, but unfortunately, there are a whole lot of real sick people walking around out there.... PS, again I add, I cannot spell never could...so please excuse my feeble attempt at doing so Sincerely Lee J. [This message has been edited by LeeJ (06-26-2006 10:36 AM).] |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
With respect, LeeJ, neither do you have any idea (what I've been through...I'm glad it was a knife at my throat, and not a gun.) I'm not American, I have no clue what it means to live withing an established gun culture, but I do know that, without guns, crime would be less deathly. Look at my premise again-not everyone in possesion of a gun intends to use it to kill, but the very act of threatening creates a volatile atmosphere where anything can happen. ("stop and talk to a police officer on the subject" !?! What, like the police officers that shot Menendez in the back at Stockwell Tube Station? Et al subjective.) If guns were totally illegal, less criminals would have access to them, the beat police on the street wouldn't need to carry them, and people like us would be able to protect ourselves properly, using our wits. As for your stock excuse..."we're from the country, we shoot our food"...well, there's no need for that, either. If you can't catch something with your hand/eye/brain coordination, and have to rely on explosives, then you shouldn't be eating it. Your post suggests to me that, maybe, you're watching too much tv, of the 'be very afraid' variety. Yes, there's danger 'out there', just as there's always been danger. There is also safety, just as there's always been safety...in awareness. Let's keep things in perspective. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
thank you kif kif for your reply... Again Kif, I say...I'm a gun advocate...from a long line of family members who believe in the right to bear arms...a long line of hunters who still happen to enjoy deer meat...some still live in very isolated areas. A family of farmers who raised cattle, horses, etc. I belonged to a gun club/hunting club...and worked on many fund raisers for that club. You said "it sounds like I'm watching to much TV and lets keep things in perspective". You said this: I'm not American, I have no clue what it means to live withing an established gun culture, but I do know that, without guns, crime would be less deathly. I think in that comment Kif you are or have been misinformed...if guns were illegal, criminals would still obtain them, it would envoke a real underground for moving guns, making them a very lucrative business & source of income criminals. Perfect example is drugs or prohabition. Kif Kif, with all due respect, you speak of misrepresented fear...well, anyone who has never shot a gun, or taken courses in shooting and hunting, well, they don't know about gun safety and down right fear guns. I've always until now, lived in the woods, rode horses, hunted, fished, and camped, adding, what a life, what a blast that was...nature's living room, yanno?  one of my uncles, repairs guns, the other collects them...all kinds that have never been shot by him? Whats the problem? Some people collect bugs, some collect coins, some collect men or women :big grin:, my uncles loved guns and target shooting... Raised a farm girl...a simple life, with no real need for material things...we grew up that way because our parents were depression kids...my point being, we hunted for food...and maybe that is very difficult for some to understand, since it is not your culture, but it was mine, and still is, I don't need clothes, a car, or makeup to prove to myself I'm successful...like who I am, who raised me and enjoy & respect my family and their beliefs to a great degree... there are people today, who still hunt for food and prefer this meat, b/c it is less contaminanted with chemicals, including me...so, yes, in my opinion, there is a great need to hunt for food, and deer meat would be very benifical to those who suffer with heart disease, as there is so little fat in deer meat. I won't fish anymore and eat the fish, due to contamination in fresh water streams and such. So, yes, in my mind, if I still lived in the woods, there still would be a need for hunting for my food, why not?... I prefered fresh organic food and eating meat that wasn't shot up with chemicals to make them grow faster. I have a male friend who farms & raises his own cattle for slaughter, he feeds them organically, and he cannot provide his customers with enough meat to meet the demand. Have you ever eaten free range chickens or turkey? Try it sometime....there is indeed a difference. My point being, you challenged me on this and I'm giving you examples... so yes, Kif, there is a need for fresh organic meat, for those of us who prefer to live on food that is chemical free...it is our culture, our lives, our conditioning, our awareness and our choice, doesn't make us lesser for the doing... As far as the Menednez shooting, it makes me very sad, that bad men out there demoralize a job that my son finds a satisfying career, taking it very seriously, and is doing that job because he wants to make a difference. and Kif, respectfully I suggest, there will never come the day, that police officers won't have to carry guns... Kif Kif, there are good cops and unfortunately some very dirty ones, just like in every other career in life... Do you know how many police officers are killed because they've pulled someone over and someone like you and me, comes down the road speeding, hits them and kills them? There are more police officers killed bu everyday average people rushing to and from work or the mall, or late picking they're kids up. ...I ask you and anyone else who is reading this, please think of that when your driving down the highway 70 miles an hour. It may not be "your" life you take, but someone elses. The point I'm trying to make is this, accidents happen, but could be voided if.... Guns are not killers, people are...human beings are the ones who need to be put away...those who are a menace to society...or who have broken the law.... I'm thinking that so so many people today think that they are above the laws? We do so when we speed.... simply put, Kif, just b/c you and I think differently on this topic doesn't make me or you, right or wrong...it is though, the way we were raised...conditioned to believe, and I admire you for standing up for your beliefs... In the same, I'm not scum or some uneducated person because I believe in hunting for food, or believe that guns should be legal....or believe in living a simpler life in the woods away from society, if I could...with my guns... I've found society isn't always right and yet, if you don't go along with society, your considered an outcast...and made fun of or spoken to like your a lessor person... and what I find deeply appauling are rich special interest groups who buy votes for a back scratch... of stopping something or controlling something they don't like but others enjoy, but that's life and another story, right? the last paragraph in your comment... As for your stock excuse..."we're from the country, we shoot our food"...well, there's no need for that, either. "Who determines the need? You?" If you can't catch something with your hand/eye/brain coordination, and have to rely on explosives, then you shouldn't be eating it???? Your post suggests to me that, maybe, you're watching too much tv, of the 'be very afraid' variety???? Yes, there is need for shooting my own food, my own needs, my desires and my free will of a right to my beliefs...I'd rather eat what I hunted then what meat is offered in the stores...thats a given... ...hunting IS hand, eye and brain coordination...not to mention better food for the heart and body...no fat in deer meat whatso ever, to this day, I'm surprised they still do not harvest deer meat for heart patients... but then, on this subject, there is so much anger and disarray, to the point that its more important being right at the cost of harsh words, buying votes to pass laws to stop others from doing as such???? As far as my comment suggesting I watch to much TV of the "be very afraid kind"... I believe in all of my posts I agreed with you on the following concept, yes, indeedy, there is great good and a tremendous amount of good people in this world, as well as, some really bad stuff going on out there...yes indeed...takes both kinds to make the world what it is...right? Hey, I'm a good guy...errr, girl...  I simply elaborated on the bad for this young gal to ponder over, it's her choice isn't it, as well as ours...what we believe...yes sir, great world, great place to live in, and I'm so happy to have experienced it all, with or without caution.... Thank you Kif, you've given me much food for thought to ponder...as I hope I have you... Hugs Lee J. [This message has been edited by LeeJ (06-27-2006 10:50 AM).] |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
Absolutely, much to think about. I disagree with you entirely, here. If guns are illegal, then the black-market is easier to spot. That's a fact. I 'come from' the Scottish highlands (incidentally, I worked a ranger and was offered controlled deer meat on a once-yearly basis), yet have lived most of my adult life in London, alongside many others that have 'come from' very different places. In London, the police on the street do not carry guns, as guns are illegal. The black market is tracked by special armed police, who work in syncronicity with trafficking units. Guns, just like imported drugs and enslaved people, can be tracked. If guns were legal, they would be impossible to be tracked, as the industry would settle within it's legal shores. As for bringing in organic food to support your argument for gun-rights, in my view, an ethical dichotomy. A quick look back, with both our histories should explain that one. How the railways were built and used across 'America' back in the days of "Discovery". Where do the buffalo roam now? Plus, you can eat 100% organic without having to shoot a large animal. Cats don't go after elephants...to your question, yes, I eat organic, and mostly locally sourced food. Attempting to imply my ignorance won't wash. The city is still part of the country, I understand the mechanics of life differ, but the ethical approaches should remain the same. ('The stores' can be avoided if there are markets, but that's another socio-industrial problem, coming from America, and Britain, another conversation!) Your comment on the Menendez killing; these police officers were not 'bad men', they reacted unpredictably, and remained confused in a volatile situation. That's my point. Guns don't provide a solution in any situation, they provide the starting-pistol for the complete destruction of life, regardless. As intelligent beings, we should be able to figure out non-violent ways for a safe, warm survival. Allowing people to carry devices designed for nothing more than to kill is ridiculous; it sends a message that says "there is no other way", and that's just dumb, in the most literal sense of the word. (No, I'm not naive, or looking through hippie tinted specs. I'm an adult urbanite who lives alongside people who have fled homelands flooded with the effects of gun culture.) It ceases to be survival of the fittest when the 10 year old youth holds a gun. [This message has been edited by kif kif (06-27-2006 11:38 AM).] |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Well then, if it works there, I stand corrected & commend you and your country on the success of this issue, wish it would work the same over here in America...but I think not? Different Cultures I suspect...but I don't believe that everyone should have to adhear because some people like to kill other people. I believe those people should be punished or put away for good. But take my guns...no, I'm against that...though I would definately vote for different laws, like for instance, there is no reason why these bullets which penetrate vests or automatic weapons should be allowed... As for bringing in organic food to support your argument for gun-rights, in my view, an ethical dichotomy. A quick look back, with both our histories should explain that one. No, it isn't an argument to support gun rights, how else could I hunt or obtain deer meat, rabbit or squirrel? I enjoy game, elk, antilope, bear, moose...and I don't believe I will apologize for that. Besides, I still have a dream that will probably never come into being, of living in the outback of Alaska, Canada...somewhere where people do not inhabit...and I would need to hunt and fish for food, warmth and clothes...there is nothing wrong with that, is there, well, cept I'm getting way to old to do that... How the railways were built and used across 'America' back in the days of "Discovery". Where do the buffalo roam now? I agree with you totally on that one, there are unfortunately men who are greedy, who love to kill for the sake of killing. So what your saying is, control all men to control a few? I agree with you, you don't and shouldn't kill any animal unless you need food, clothes...but there was a price tag on every part of the Buffalo and some men took grave advantage Plus, you can eat 100% organic without having to shoot a large animal. Cats don't go after elephants...to your question, yes, I eat organic, and mostly locally sourced food. Attempting to imply my ignorance won't wash. The city is still part of the country, I understand the mechanics of life differ, but the ethical approaches should remain the same. ('The stores' can be avoided if there are markets, but that's another socio-industrial problem, coming from America, and Britain, another conversation!) Whoa, One thing I did not do was attempt to imply your ignorance, I wouldn't do that, so please do not imply that I was... what I was doing was explaining who I am and My beliefs...and why I believe the way I do...whats more, I believe your a significant human being, very special and would not hurt your heart intentionally for any reason, so please don't assume I'm setting out to make a fool of you b/c you disagree with me...again. I believe and I explained that in another comment...that is not my style...you have a right to disagree and a right to your beliefs...and I respect that...but I will argue my point of view without the need to condiscend you...or try to make you feel like an idoiot because your beliefs...no sir, that I will not do...and take offense to for the suggestion of it...this is not about a battle of throwing insults back and forth to make the other feel inferior or winning...this is an open forum for discussion, beliefs and feelings, and without it, our world would be a seriously one sided one....one where the meanest and strongest survived...that is one world I do not believe in...along with verbal abuse to win an argument... Your comment on the Menendez killing; these police officers were not 'bad men', they reacted unpredictably, and remained confused in a volatile situation. That's my point. Guns don't provide a solution in any situation, they provide the starting-pistol for the complete destruction of life, regardless. I disagree...there is no excuse for murder...even if someone came into my home, in the middle of the night armed...and I shot him, I'd have to account for that in a court of law...and yeah, you could say, well, he broke into her home with intent to harm...yes, he did, but again, the law says, I have to account for it...there again, is a perfect example of excusing the criminals, and there are some police, who are bad/corrupt people...its natures law? As intelligent beings, we should be able to figure out non-violent ways for a safe, warm survival. Allowing people to carry devices designed for nothing more than to kill is ridiculous; it sends a message that says "there is no other way", and that's just dumb, in the most literal sense of the word. Yes, I agree with your concept to some degree, but again...taking away everything from everyone is not a solution, it's a maybe quick fix that may backfire on everyone someday. So, because of a few, the entire world of gun people must suffer and turn over their guns? I don't think that's fair...and I'm not a killer or a criminal....I fear there are way to many criminals out there who would still gain guns...again, look at prohibition.... (No, I'm not naive, or looking through hippie tinted specs. I'm an adult urbanite who lives alongside people who have fled homelands flooded with the effects of gun culture.) I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I thought you are naive, I think quite the opposite...and I'm so so sorry that you've had to endure what you've endured and can certainly understand the sensitivity of this subject and why you feel the way you feel, but again...allow me to suggest, you do not know me, and it is not or never will be my intention to make you feel lesser of a person for your beliefs... I believe criminals should pay, and be put away for life if they are deemed a menace to society. I believe if someone points a gun at someone and pulls the trigger, there should be a grave consequences for murderers to pay, with they're lives or life imprisioned ...not to mention, if these people would be put away and not left go, our children, our lives, my son, would be safer... it's not worth it to me just to be right or try and change your opinion....what we have to do is look at the whole magnitude and how this decission will effect everyone, for the better or for the worse...a trial and maybe error, who knows? Kif Kif, I offer my friendship to you despite our difference of opinions...regardless of what may happin in the future with all these issues... It ceases to be survival of the fittest when the 10 year old youth holds a gun. and this comment makes me very angry, not at you, but at the parents/culture that raised him to have so little respect for life....maybe a perfect example of parents who do not want to deal with discipline... a kid who maybe was abused, living in a drug infested neighborhood, and the very kid, my son is trying to save...and disarm.... Well, even though you greatly disagree with me, thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion and feelings on this subject. and most of all, thank you for offering yours... |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
I doubt the argument for or against the legality of guns will ever be solved, especially since most places have been socially carved through 'fear of the firearm.' Of course, we'll likely disagree in the future LeeJ, but like you, I hope that we can be agreeable with it! To clarify, my argument has nothing to do with 'what I've been through', and everything to do with 'where we're going' as a society. No, I'm not saying 'control all men to control a few', I'm saying control instruments of death. I for one, wouldn't trust a collector of viruses, just as I don't trust a collector of guns. It's an issue of power that's dangerous in the hands of most people, no matter how level-headed or 'right' they think they are. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
you've got me smiling...but just for the record, I'm on the fence...and a registered independent... the far lefts and right really scare me....which brings us right back to the topic...fear...lol Have a great day and thanks... what say, we have a coffee together some time, and not touch base on this issue.... hehe |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: What is the difference, I wonder, between the police who don't carry guns and the police who do carry guns? More importantly, perhaps, why are you willing to accept anyone being armed, be it special police or your country's soldiers? |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
LeeJ, if we didn't argue, then we wouldn't begin to understand each others views! I appreciate your time, thanks. Ron, good question. I don't accept anyone being armed theoretically (!), but while guns are being used and traded between criminals, we have to have people trained to understand them. A contradiction indeed, and something to think about. My point is, it's not the norm' for the police to carry guns while patrolling the streets, because it's not the norm for people on the street to be carrying them. We need to get to the social understanding that most people are good people. Places that allow things have more of it; and a line must be drawn before tolerance of firearms destroys our sense of safety completely. |
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