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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I don't understand why it was necessary to lock JCP's thread just because it was getting a bit out of hand. Unless the original author requested it to be locked. Can't the moderator moderate the discussion, and delete anything that is inappropriate to avoid cutting off communication/posting altogether in a discussion? Now we are shut out of a thread that was bringing much activity in this forum after a long while of very little activity. To me the lock seems to discourage activity and avoids dealing with the problem thro communication, instead of steering and encouraging the discussion to a better direction. I'm just wondering what others that post in Philosophy think; and if there may be a better approach to such situations? (Sorry for posting this inappropriatly in Brad's thread earlier. I hope it is alright to discuss it on its own though.) |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Not at all. Though I personally didn't close the thread, it makes sense to me. Any thread that goes over fifty or so posts (probably much fewer than that) inevitably leads to sidebars and repetitions. From that point, I think you should start a new thread based on what you got out of that discussion.  It's your turn. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Brad, Certainly not length, or even repetitiveness alone should warrant the locking of a thread. I think it was another reason. Anyone know what Ron's reference to 12/13/2001 is about? Stephen. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
But why dwell on it? Take the good parts and expand and explore. Extirpate the bad parts. (Sorry, just wanted to use that word.) |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
a certain person's PIP inception date Stephen |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
So, who is it? Seriously, I wouldn't mind if Ron told me what I did "wrong" this time. I was only being open and honest, which may be considered to be brutal at times, although I didn't think so, but at least it was honest and not being hypocritical, and not written to be hurtful. It was my thread and I was only keeping it on the path of the subject matter, which I thought I did... rather well. I tell you all something... The ability to think critically + an overabundance of empathy (genetics) = a bad thing. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
quote: I think that it would be better to deal with whoever is causing the problem, rather than to end the thread. A thread at 70 entries is a stripling, and always has the potential for springing to life in a new direction. So why should every one else be locked out for what one or two people do? I hope it's alright for me to talk openly about this. I've seen Ron approach it that way before, and the results were always more satisfactory for everyone. But I know sometimes it just "get's old" to an administrator, so maybe locking the thread involves the least hassle. Anyway those are just my thoughts. We still like Ron, and respect his right to run it as he sees fit. But, as Brad said, there's nothing preventing a new thread. Stephen. |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
Indeed, It usually takes one person to "throw the first volley," which can result, especially when that volley is intended for one's own "arch enemy," in a retalliaton to that first volley. The simple solution is to use empathy and avoide the "first volley." "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: The ability to think critically with too little empathy is also a bad thing. Believe me, I know.  And so, where is the line? I doubt if it can ever be formulated and so we make do with judgement calls. This, however, is not a bad thing. |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
That makes sense to me Brad. I don't know... I don't understand why wanting a person to be honest about his or her views is a bad thing, especially when the want has nothing to do with attempting to hurt any person or anything. I was always taught that being honest is a good thing... maybe I took that teaching too far. I still don't see any reason to close the thread, and if it had to do with the exchange between myself and Stephanos, I even still don't get it. It was in-line with the topic matter. And asking for a person to be honest about how they feel or what they believe in, imo, should never be cause for a thread closure... unless, of course, it was sexually, violently, etc., in nature. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: But what if it does? It doesn't benefit me to say what I think just so that my opinion is known. If it will potentially benefit someone THEN it is incumbent to say what I know. But even then it may be a hard dose for someone. A spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down. |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"But what if it does? It doesn't benefit me to say what I think just so that my opinion is known." ~ That wasn't what happened in that locked thread. I didn't ask questions in order to render my opinion. It is just that I have seen what was going on in that thread once too often. If a person can't be honest about what they believe in, especially when it deals with religious beliefs while debating others of a different faith, well then I don't get it. I was taught that honesty is a good thing. "If it will potentially benefit someone THEN it is incumbent to say what I know." ~ In that case, it had a possibility of benefitting any person reading the thread. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
You can tell a woman that it isn't the dress that makes her look fat and be telling the truth. Is that going to benefit anyone? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
*chuckle* That's almost as annoying as the old spiritual saying, "The moment you think you have achieved enlightenment, you can be sure that you have not." *grins* But for a while there, you really did seem less angry.  Happy New Year. I'm gonna go change my dress. (shrug, at least I can find something that drapes artfully, yes?) What the hell--I don't haveta look at me!  |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"But for a while there, you really did seem less angry" ~ Seriously, what did I do to appear angry... again!? "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"You can tell a woman that it isn't the dress that makes her look fat and be telling the truth. Is that going to benefit anyone?" ~ Explain your analogy to what I said in the locked thread? I don't see any corelation. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Blazey... you look Phat in that dress... ! Opeth.. it becomes a matter of objective. What is it that you want to accomplish? What good does it do to tell the 'truth' if nobody cares? If you approach persuasion with the paradigm of an 'arch enemy' you've already lost. If someone is talking over thier head they stop listening(reading) if we call them stupid. If we think someone is prevaricating and we stop the conversation to call them a liar the objective is lost and the subject is changed. We aren't Judge Judy. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Honesty doesn't justify bad manners. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
My motto: Be an absolutist philosophically and a relativist relationally not the other way around. Stephen. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I tend to follow the advice of my father; 'If one man calls you an ass he's probably just looking in the mirror. If five men call you an ass head to the saddle store.' |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"I tend to follow the advice of my father; 'If one man calls you an ass he's probably just looking in the mirror. If five men call you an ass head to the saddle store.'" ~ So, why did you post this reply? Are you attempting to provoke somebody into an argument or just trying to call someone an ass? Seriously, if I were a moderator, you would be warned about what you just wrote, however, if one's opinion is of the minority of the participants, I guess that doesn't matter on this site. You feel better now? Shame on you... and happy New Year to you too. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Why did I post that reply? To pass along some great advice from a great man. It's not like butter doesn't melt in my mouth either Opeth. But, when I am being an ass I want someone to reign me in before I go charging over a cliff. 'Gravity is a harsh mistress' -- The Tic |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
Then stop being an ass, if you must. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
 well I'm not off to the store just yet. enjoy the fishing though  (I'll be pleased to let you have the final word) |
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Baba Michi Junior Member
since 2005-12-07
Posts 40Southern Germany |
Who is this Opeth everyone keeps referring to? The thread was locked because there wasn't much philosophizing going on. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I have no idea why the thread was locked Baba Michi... I haven't read it. My comments here are philosophizing over the words that are expressed in this thread. Opeth = JCP |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Local Rebel Poking around with doubtful name-calling is hardly "philosophizing" about words in this thread. Calling JCP "Opeth" at this point, seems to have negative connotations, seems more like a poke or like saying "Once an Opeth always an Opeth" I know you don't mean anything harsh, but I doubt it may make JCP feel very well. I will ask you what you asked earlier "What is it that you want to accomplish?" |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
I believe some people feel good "attacking" others, even without knowing why or what the cause was. I'll say it again. I don't know what I did to close that thread except to ask a person a question and only wanting a truthful answer. If that is a wrong thing, then I can only shake my head in disbelief, because if someone asked me a question like that, I would gladly answer the question, honestly. ... This entire episode only confirms what I already know, and that is I am at peace with my Creator, if there is one. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Well Ess, I don't know that I called anybody any derogatory names. Stephan gave his philosophy and I gave mine in response. If that became a Rorschack for someone then it is a burdensome chip someone is carrying. If Opeth is a derogatory name then I apologize -- it was his chosen name -- and his current name seems to be at odds with trying to show respect or empathy for others and his own statement in this thread indicates that he thinks there can be such a thing as too much empathy -- it's a prescription for flame. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"I don't know what I did to close that thread except to ask a person a question and only wanting a truthful answer." That's the problem, JCP It's not up to you to decide what someone elses "truthful answer is" What someone's belief is is up to them to say to you, not for you to say to them. This was coming out to an extreme in the other thread. It seems like you were hounding Stephanos and trying to make him say what you believed his belief was, and how you believed it should be spoken in words. That manner was not a respectful exchange of honesty. It was not up to you to say what Stephanos true belief is, it was up to Stephanos. Do you see what I mean? |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
Hey LR, quit the semantical bull. Have you ever heard of innuendos and stating what one believes, indirectly? Just say it. Kind of like the commercial... I'd rather have a person be honest than be condesceding while "playing games." What business was it of yours if you never even read the other thread like you said? I am done replying to you. Bow your head to someone else. "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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JesusChristPose Senior Member
since 2005-06-21
Posts 777Pittsburgh, Pa |
"That's the problem, JCP It's not up to you to decide what someone elses "truthful answer is" What someone's belief is is up to them to say to you, not for you to say to them. This was coming out to an extreme in the other thread. It seems like you were hounding Stephanos and trying to make him say what you believed his belief was, and how you believed it should be spoken in words. That manner was not a respectful exchange of honesty. It was not up to you to say what Stephanos true belief is, it was up to Stephanos. Do you see what I mean?" ~ I see what you mean, but then maybe I watched too many political roundtable discussions... and when I asked Stephanos to rephrase his answers, he got upset. His answer was political in nature, indeed, and it was what I believed it was, except he avoided answering it directly. ~ However, I wouldn't of "pressed" the issue if wasn't for the first volley he threw towards me, which seems to be missed by everyone reading. I took much offense to the replies suggesting that I was putting down the southern christian culture, and him coming back with a "I didn't mean it" after the fact, doesn't work for me. I didn't believe it. The fact is, Stephanos should of never posted 2 insinuating derogatory replies without at least asking for clarification... and that Ron and no one else even thought anything of that, doesn't make sense to me. Do you see what I mean? "If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead." |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: quote: This may be some great advice. When did you stop beating your wife? -- is a question. I didn't volley anything at you here and look where we are. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Sigh. I like garlic. When I cook, I add it to most meats and some few vegetables. It took a lot of experimenting, over the course of many years, to discover the power of seasoning. It could have gone a different way. I can almost imagine a younger me, a more adventurous me, adding garlic to my corn flakes or vanilla ice cream. Yuck. Or, probably worse and certainly more likely, adding too much garlic to a friend's stuffed pork chop and spoiling it for them. Had I ruined too many meals, for too many people, I could see myself giving up on garlic entirely. At some point, I would have to stop blaming the garlic, stop blaming the meat or vegetables, stop blaming the too sensitive taste buds of other people, and accept that I just didn't get it. If I ruined too many meals, and especially if I looked around and realized everyone else was seemingly cooking good meals without incident, I'd like to think I'd be open minded enough to understand and accept my own limitation. If that sounds a little far fetched, I should probably add that, today and for most of ten years, I only use garlic when I'm eating alone. Some people just don't get garlic. Some never will. Grace, I think, comes from knowing when it's time to leave the kitchen. |
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