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Philosophy 101
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God vs. Spock
| Philosophy 101 |
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God vs. Spock |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan 
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Who has the more convincing argument; those who argue for extraterrestrial life forms capable of visiting our planet, or those for a god that is at least mildly interested in it? John |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
What are you implying? |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
Basically he's asking if it's more realistic to believe in God or aliens. Personally I believe in both. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
What if early dieties were simply aliens mistaken for god's. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
John, this is a strange post since in a previous thread you stated you were "waiting for the kingdom of God". I'm just trying to figure out how these two pieces work together ... pessimistic agnostic and pining expectant. Stephen. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Stephen, The question arose after my rereading of a relevant chapter in “Weird Science” by Michael White. John P.S. “There are things in life that we must endure which are all but unendurable, and yet I feel there is a great goodness. Why, when there could have been nothing, is there something? This is a great mystery. How, when there could have been nothing, does it happen that there is love, kindness, beauty?” Jane Kenyon [This message has been edited by Huan Yi (11-03-2004 08:41 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
You're mixing some very simple ideas with some exceedingly complex ones, I think. Is there life in the Universe beyond that on Earth? Very simple. Is there intelligent life beyond that (sic) on Earth? Only marginally less simple. Can ANY life ever cross the great expanses of the Universe. Complex and mathematical. Is there a God? Both simple (faith) and complex (unprovable). Is God at least marginally interested in Earth. Complex and probably not quantifiable (does omnipotence even allow for marginal interest?). Yes, yes, no, yes, and paradoxical.  |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Ron, “Is there life in the Universe beyond that on Earth? Very simple. Is there intelligent life beyond that (sic) on Earth? Only marginally less simple.” You say yes to both. Why? Because of our own being? What else? What evidence? John P.S. There was an article some long time ago in the Smithsonian in which the author spoke about attending a science conference. At the conference, a group of French scientists demonstrated that for life to occur on a planet not only would its orbit have to be in its sun’s temperate zone, but it would have to have a moon such as ours to keep its axis relatively stable, otherwise its surface would be experiencing constant and such temperature shifts as to make the beginnings of life impossible. The likelihood of such a repetition was considered beyond calculation. I once read a book in which a scientist offered reasons as to how improbable our own universe was; that less than one percent change in it’s composition of some element and it wouldn’t exist as to make life possible. [This message has been edited by Huan Yi (11-04-2004 12:54 AM).] |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
LOL, I see no reason to trust/mistrust either one more than the other, and neither are presented in a way that can be proven/disproven. After I'm done with another Stephen King novel or Stephen Hawking discourse, as well as staring at my Salvador Dali or van Gogh prints, maybe I'll have another answer. Probably not though. Sometimes, staring at my navel gives me greater enlightenment. Perhaps after my yoga stretches, I'll zen-think a thought or two that might make sense. But probably not. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Flip an honest coin one thousand times and the odds of getting one thousand tails in a row is astronomical. Flip an honest coin an infinite many times and the odds of getting one thousand tails in a row is inevitable. Don't believe me? Check out number theory sometime on the distribution of primes. The Universe probably isn't infinite, but it's sure close enough as to make little difference. As to your article in the Smithsonian, I'll leave you with the words of Arthur C. Clarke. "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Kaci, “I'll zen-think a thought or two that might make sense” Isn’t that a contradiction? I thought Satori , (enlightenment), was to come spontaneously without thought. That Zen was the denuding from self and its attributes. So yes, probably not. John |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
You're catching on, John. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Ron, So Santa Claus, Peter Rabbit somewhere in the great out there? What are the chances of us being the first; the Big Bang of life? John |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Kaci, Zen masters have been known to scorn their own pursuits: Satori seekers make me sick! Those that find it are deluded. The old gimlet on Vulture Mountain—laughable. Over my shoulder flies the broken ladle. --Kakua, 12c. John |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Sosan (Seng-t'san) approx 600 CE: Transformations going on in an empty world which confronts us appear real because of Ignorance. Try not to seek after the true, only cease to cherish opinion. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Every planet is alive at the right temperature, just at a different time and place. Thus, the sun is the right size at a certain time for Pluto, so Pluto is alive; it is the right size for Neptune at a certain time, so Neptune is alive, etc. The sun therefore is the right size for all planets and all planets are alive. But at different times because of their different places. Life runs from planet to planet; and from one sun to the next one, in one universal moment. But to our science it appears to be "evolution" because we can't see the "whole" moment at once. Thus we are on this planet now, not on that planet. However, if we might see all times and all places, perhaps truly we might see us on every planet. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Show me one Santa Claus or Peter Rabbit in the infinite, and I'll show the probability of more. quote: Slim, but certainly not null. I'm not sure order, however, is relevant. What are your chances of seeing the first snowflake of a blizzard? It's precedence wouldn't make the snowflake more unique (an oxymoron). Nor would it make the flake less like all the others. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I must not think of the universe as one whole anymore. It is making me insane. I must be mistaken, for God didn't make the Universe especially to make men go insane. Perhaps the universe is not actually a "whole" Perhaps everything is a whole as a specific shape only for a period of time: everything is only forever because change is eternal, but nothing is forever in its present shape. The universe then is never complete, or else is always the same matter in different shapes. Or it is one snake that is a is a circle that keeps swallowing each different on its selfsame path forever. Thus my body is existant now because God set me in it; but afterwards it is not existant as a body, it is only existant as "parts" of the universe-body, but the "wholeness" stationary physical shape that I know in this life shall be no more existant. It is "assimilated" into the universe. My "bodily" character vanishes; and I either have no more, and have nothing; or I have a soul, and it is something still existant. If each has a soul, he or she may live beyond the body and the world . If one doesn't, one shall never exist again on or in any sphere of existance. |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
quote: Or perhaps a big donut, and we are in the center hole, or perhaps just an insignificent crumb, and unable to imagine/see what's beyond the outer ring? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
We only live on a world and we are to mind the whole universe Is this wise or foolish? [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-04-2004 04:32 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Maybe we are in the dark of the universe; that's why it is so hard to see things beyond our world. It is the "nighttime" of the universe. The stars, and the moon and our sun, are just night-light to sustain us until the daylight comes back, when we shall see so much more. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Actually, "more unique" is an extra redundancy  |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
You're right, of course, Pete. But now that you have me thinking of it, it does raise some interesting questions. The real oxymoron would have been less unique. Since more unique is the polar opposite of less unique, does that mean the opposite of an oxymoron is always a redundancy? |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Ron/Essorant What if we our selves are the first cells of God John |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I think humans are divine but not that divine |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
A work in progress? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
God's work. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Essorant, I think what John's getting at is ... how, if man is imperfect and flawed, is he to be understood as a divine work? Either 1) God has good intentions, but is himself flawed and incapable, or 2) he is not good, or 3) There's a good reason why man (his creation) doesn't fully reflect his glory. The Judeo/Christian view of God asserts three is the right answer. But I at least understand John's question. (unless he was referring to something else entirely) Stephen. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I didn't mean absolutly divine. Man is inspired by divinity, and in that extent, I believe he is divine. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Is earth colourful or is that just light that is colourful? |
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