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Philosophy 101
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Why Bush?
| Philosophy 101 |
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Why Bush? |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I talked to my parents the other day. They told me that the current interest on saving accounts is one tenth of one percent. They blame Bush. I don't know. I don't see much point in rehashing the things I've said, I don't see much point in going over the mistakes of the last four years, but I'm interested in why you think Bush should go another four. I'm curious. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
I don't.  |
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RSWells Member Elite
since 2001-06-17
Posts 2533 |
He won't |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
It's beyond my consideration as well. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
1) Because he's not an appeaser of terrorists. 2) From the choices we have, I think he is the strongest on national security issues, which I think should be our priority at this time. 3) I got a nice tax refund two years in a row, and I'd like to keep that happening for as long as possible! That never happened for me under the previous administration. Democrats always seem to want to take more of my money. The interest rate is not an issue for me since I don't have any money to save anyway. But at least Bush gives me some of my tax money back! 4) The terrorists and Michael Moore want him out! That's reason enough for me to want to keep him for another four years!  |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Because Kerry is a weeny. Seriously, I think No Child Left Behind is a good thing and the President's Commission on Excellence in Special Education produced outstanding recommendations for improving the reauthorized Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. Because Democrats have traditionally been teachers union cronies they have never produced anything close to what the Bush Administration has in this regard. Okay ... shoot me for being a single-issue voter.  Jim |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Ironically, being as he's supposed to be a democrat, there is little difference between Kerry's stance and Bush's as far as the war goes. His response to the recent abuse issue was almost word-for-word matching Gore's. He claims (just as Bush) that we need to maintain a presence there in the Middle East until the chaos has subsided. Glad you got some money back, Denise!. Wish I could say the same. I paid close to fifteen thousand dollars in federal taxes alone for the year 2003. I claimed zero throughout the year, yet still came close to having to shell money out of pocket come reconciliation day. According to my accountant, the Bush administration has apparently adjusted tax income burdens to the detriment of single people who make over a certain amount of money. Then, there's that whole minimum tax thing which irritates the hell out of me. I suppose I could keep going on, but I have to go to bed so I can get up early and avoid most of the traffic on the way to work - considering the insanely high gas prices (highest average per gallon in history as of this morning), I want as smooth of a drive as possible. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"Because Kerry is a weeny" smile. and nod. That was almost incentive. |
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Ringo 
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Brad- The rate your parents are getting must be something with their bank, because I am getting a slightly better rate than that. As for why it's that low, you can traditionally thank the economy for that. When the economy is doing well, interest rates on loans and mortgages, etc. always drop. In order for the lending institutions to make money for their investors they need to lower the rate they give to their depositors as well. Recently, the Fed has been talking about raising the interest rates to slow down the economy. Then, the savings rate will go up slightly. jbouder- The No Child Left Behind is a great initiative, however there are still cracks that need to be filled. The local schools are required to abide by the provisions, however, with this being a depressed area doesn't have all of the money needed. We are taxed 8 ways from Sunday (School tax, real estate tax, local (As well as state) sales tax, Occupational Priviledge tax (We have to pay a tax to work!!!), and still we have the 4th highest rate of families on assitance in the state. That needs to be addressed by the Federal government as well as the State government. Chris- There is very little difference in their stances NOW. Kerry cannot actually decide what his stance is for sure. HE voted for the war, then he voted against funding the war, then he was against the troops being there, and wanted them home... now it seems that he is for keeping them there to do the job. Although I DO care what his viwes actually are, I care more that he doesn't have a defined view. To actually answer your question, Brad, I believe that Bush will be reelected because he is the better choice over-all, and the undecideds will learn more about why Kerry isn't the better choice towards the end of the election period (Late Sept. Oct.) Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: By the way ... quote: Actually, they ought to blame the Federal Reserve. My equity portfolio increased 25% this year. I blame Bush. Jim |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Brad, I suggest your parents shop around. The average rate on passbook and regular savings accounts is 0.60% nationwide. There are those who exceed that, however... Tennessee Commerce Bank - 2.00% ING Direct - 2.00% GMAC Bank - 2.00% California 1st Natl Bank- 1.75% As in many things, it does pay to shop around. I can't find ANY bank that pays 0.10%. Yes, I believe Bush will be re-elected. I could go into a long list of reasons which would do nothing but invite arguments and criticisms from some of those who post here so I'll just say he is the best of what we have to choose from. I can't imagine Kerry in the top spot by any stretch of the imagination and I thank God Gore wasn't there for 9/11....also, as has been mentioned, the terrorists DON'T want him in and that's one good reason.... |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Geeze, Chris, you paid in taxes half of what I earned in 2003.  How can I get your kind of job?I guess more of the tax burden went to the single folks when the marriage penalty was done away with this year? It seems somebody always gets screwed. I think a flat tax would be the best way to go. In the meantime, I guess you could always get married! |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
I think that his part in making Partial Birth Abortion illegal is admirable. Kerry is Pro-abortion. Also, his commitment toward a constitutional ammendment that retains the traditional definition of Marriage is a reason for me. I don't agree with everything Bush does, by a long shot, but he's the better choice in my estimation. Stephen. |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Since you brought up that particular discussion, Stephanos, one of the main reasons I refuse to back Kerry (besides the fact taht I am a conservative Republican) is the fact that he is Catholic and is FOR abortion and FOR gay marriages... those are two of the Top 10 in the Catholic Hit Parade... If he is willing to compromise his religeous beliefs to gain an election, what else will compromise in a stress-filled situation when it REALLY matters? I also would enjoy a return to a more "traditional" version of marriage, however the one thing that President Bush has going against him (in my book) is the fact that he wants to use the Constitution of the United States to settle a social challenge, and to deny what many people consider to be a matter of civil rights. That just sounds a bit too much like putting someone in a full body cast because he got a hang nail. That issue should be settled by Justices Rehnquist, Scalia, Kennedy, and the rest of the crew BEFORE anyone considers any laws for or against. Just my opinion, though. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... |
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*Alli4000*
since 2004-03-21
Posts 3188The World of Poetry |
I don't think he should go for another 4....Kerry should become the next president. Bush is horrible, ruining the country. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
This is just a listening thread for me, I honestly want to know why people still feel Bush is a capable leader. Nevertheless , I just have to point out that when Kennedy was running, one of the concerns was precisely that he would follow the Pope and surrender sovereignty (however little) to a foreign power. Leiberman was also pressed to make a decision between affairs of state and his orthodox Jewry. How things change. Or maybe they don't. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
It's the same old same old, Brad. People apply labels and then are surprised when others fail to live up to their expectations. Everyone knows, after all, that Catholics let the Vatican do all their thinking for them. Some want that, some don't, but everyone gets real confused when faced with the possibility their labels may be more fragile than they realized. |
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Michelle_loves_Mike
since 2003-12-20
Posts 1189Pennsylvania |
Dude,I dunno if any president has done better the second time around,,,and I am speaking strictly from the ones that have done two terms in my range of knowlege and lifetime. Sometimes, I wonder if they don't run for another term, just because its easier than all the packing and moving that would be involved. Michelle I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Why in the world do you think I'm going to change? Its an election year for chris sake. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
 Thanks again, Michelle, for the chuckles! |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
You too, Brad!  |
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kissa~rachelle Senior Member
since 2003-11-27
Posts 988nowhere special |
WoW. Drama...~lol~ I personnally want Bush for another 4, but thats just me. I am extremely opposed to abortion, so i think that is a big "why" factor for me, but i dont wanna get into it all, cuz i need to get to bed soon, and all the drama... ugh! ~lol~ Kissa I want a relationship i can finally sink my teeth into.~ Alexander Sterling |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Alli- I have a question for you... What proof do you have that President Bush has done a horrible job running the country? I am not looking for the "proof" that your parents, or friends, or teachers may have been telling you. I don't want to hear the same Jerk-kneed responses that everyone tends to give. I am not interested in Michael Moore's version of the "truth".. I would like to hear- if you would be willing-the actual FACTS as to your thoughts. I am not saying they are wrong, I would just be interested in seeing you backing them up. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
I'd echo Ringo's question. Generally, the economy is growing well, the war in Iraq has not resulted in the "doom-and-gloom" loss-of-life and environmental devastation predicted when we went in and, with the exception of the Madrid bombing, our aggressive Mid-East military offensives have not resulted in significant increases in domestic terrorist retaliation. Arguably, fossil-fuel prices are a blight on the current administration's record, but dependence on foreign oil imports and environmental constraints on expanding domestic refineries is more to blame than the administration's energy policies. I think the Alaskan oil-drilling short-term solution bolstered by aggressive development of hydrogen fuel-cell technology are sound plans. Surely we can't blame the Bush administration for flawed environmental and energy policies he inherited. So perhaps, in addition to the original question, we should be asking ourselves, "Why not Bush?" Jim |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
In an interview with Paris Match magazine released by the White House on Friday, the president held out the possibility of inviting Chirac to visit his Texas ranch, a prized invitation for many foreign leaders. "If he wants to come and see some cows, he's welcome to come out there and see some cows," Bush said. How can you not like this guy? LOL! |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Alli- I just looked at my last response and realized that if it was looked at in a certain light, it could be argued that I was beinig overly argumentative... I did not mean it that way... Here's what I meant: I feel president Bush is not as bad as the Democrats and Liberals are saying because: According to Elaine Chao, the US Secretary of Labor: 1)over 1,000,000 jobs haqve been created in the last 8 months 2) There are new Overtime Security Rules that strengthen overtime for 6.7 million workers... including 3.1 who were denied in the past 3) The High Growth Job Training Initiative has offered value-added job training to thousands more and has doubled the total numbers of workers who are eligible to receive federally funded job training. 4)The protection of worker's safety and rights has caused enforcement of OSHA regations to increase, penalties against unscrupulous employers is up, recovery of back wages is up 21% to an 11 year high, employee benefits are up 60%, and workplace injury and death are at an all time low. 5) According to the USA Today, The Bush Administration has added a prescription medicine benefit to Medicare and the Democrats have attempted to increase spending 1.9 trillion dollars in the past 3 years, while attempting to cancel the tax relief that the Bush Administration has passed. 6) His Holiness, the Pope, has congradulated President Bush for his pro-life stance (yet has been oddly silent on the Catholic candidate). That is what I was asking you to do... simply share the facts as to why Senator Kerry would make a better president than the one we currently have. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... http://www.cmlb.net/ringo |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: How much time you got? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
At least four more years |
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*Alli4000*
since 2004-03-21
Posts 3188The World of Poetry |
Ringo, I realize that Kerry is NOT perfect and I'm not saying that your liking Bush is bad...it's just that...in my opinion...I believe that Kerry is better. Here are the reasons: President Bush - Illegal invasion of Iraq, resulting in about 10,000 civilian casualties - Over 500 troops dying - Cutting benefits for the U.S. military - Cutting the pay of troops serving in Iraq - Tax cuts for the rich, which have contributed towards massive deficits - $87 billion of taxpayers money for foreign nations and not a cent going towards a national, universal health-care system - Ridiculous spending on national defense, security, intelligence and the military, which have also contributed to massive deficits - 36 million Americans living in a complete state of poverty - Slowly trying to eliminate a woman's right to choose - Using images from 9-11 in his initial television campaign ads - Appointing John Ashcroft as the Attorney General - Using EPA funds to make campaign ads - Proposing to loosen the protection of endangered species - For telling Congress not to offer a Medicare prescription drug benefit to the disabled and elderly - Giving Federal funds to religious groups - For using the 9-11 attacks to justify all of his policies - For advocating a plan to make it easier for timber companies to plunder national forests - Proposing cuts to Medicare funding for cancer drugs - Advocating more nuclear weapons Also, I found this website that lists everything George Bush has done: http://p199.ezboard.com/fbitchpillowjustbitch.showMessage?topicID=444.topic&index=15 Once again, I'm not saying your opinion is bad, it's just different from mine. ~Alli~ |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: --Paul Waldman http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18853 |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
OK, Alli- Let's take each of the points that you have presented. 1) Illegal invasion- then where is the UN censure? being illegal, what would cause 38 nations to join us in the fight? Only 11 nations actually had troops on the ground, however the others sent material, and offered aid in other ways, from munitions and supplies to hospitak ships (the Spanish... who voted against the war in the UN). Besides, Senator Kerry voted FOR the war. 2) The total is over 800 troops at this point... President Clinton also sent troops to their death. President Bush v1.0 sent troops to their death. President Reagan sent troops to their death. President Carter sent troops to their death. Senator Kerry (as a serviceman) sent troops to their death/ Sorry, Alli, however that is the way this whole thing works... there is some national crisis and the president sends young men and women to their deaths. 3) Cutting benefits to the military??? President Bush cannot do ANYTHING that the congress does not allow... and to be completely honest about it, President Bush attempted to send a bill to Congress to increase spending for the military, and THEY cut it. The same thing happened with President Clinton... and it was one Senator John Kerry s who voted for the lack of spending for the military. Cutting the pay of troops??? Read above. President Bush didn't cut ANYTHING. It was the Congress of the United States that did the cutting... and Senator kerry voted for the cut... and, to be completely honest, My brother is in the Marine Corps, and I have a friend that came home from Iraq WIA... they get the same amount in their pay check now that they got before... except my friend no longer gets combat pay since he is Stateside. 4) Tax cuts for the rich... here we go again. I am no where near the level of being rich... as a matter of fact, according to the numbers that are put out be the Treasury Department, I am barely middle class (actually, I am upper lower class, however the area I live in is depressed, so I do OK), and I got a $500 tax break for each of my kids. I also got a cut in my individual income tax, as well as the taxes I pay for my business... Tax cuts for the wealthy??? hmmmm... 4) This one makes no sense. FIRST you complain that he is cutting spending, then you say he is spending too much... WHAT??? And what would you call too much spending? How much is too much on the defense of your nation? 5) The $87 Billion did NOT go for foreign nations... it went to the troops in Iraq. It was what he asked Congress for in order to fight the war. As for a national healthcare system... if ANYONE could come up with one that works, and is not goinig to add 17 Billion a year in beuracracy, I would be one of the first people in line to support it. I also don't seem to recall Senator Kerry touting this healthcare system with any specifics. If he can do it, then He will get a look from me. I probably still wouldn't vote for him, however, I would look. 6) 37 Million citizens living in a state of complete poverty. Before bringing this in, I would ask you to find out how many were living in complete poverty BEFORE he took office, and how many of those are Homeless who have no desire to be anything but. (There aren't many, however they do exist). Now, IF the number of citizens in poverty has risen, what is the percentage rate, and how does that numbner rate with any of the other Presidents we have had sitting in the Oval Office? 7) The right to choose vs. the right to life... regardless of who is in office, this will NEVER be settled. Someone is ALWAYS going to be screaming about the outcome. I'm not even going to adress this. 8) 9/11 images... Question... Did 9/11 happen on his watch? Did he have to deal with it? On the homefront, can you find anything to fault his reaction and the way he handled it AFTER the attacks? If he can talk about the booming economy and what he has done to create it, why should he be not allowed to remind people of the strong leadership he presented after 9/11? 9) Appointing John Ashcroft as AG... and this put a burr under your saddle blanket because???? Facts, remember? 10) Using EPA funds to make campaign ads... WHAT????? This is a blatant violation of campaign laws, and he has yet to be called on it. And, somehow, as big an idiot most NJ reseidents think she is, I sincerely doubt Secretary Whitman would allow ANY money to come out of her budget. According to all of the environmental lobbies, there is not enough spent on the Environment, and Secretary Christine Todd-Whitman is going to allow money to be taken out of her budget? This is very hard to believe. I would need REAL proof about this. Not just something that came off of a website, or out of Michaqel Moore's mouth. 11) Proposing to loosen the protection of endangered species... He might have. I honestly don't keep up with such things. 12) He told Congress NOT to give the drug plan, yet he signed it when it came across his desk... hmmmmm...... 13) 9/11 to justify ALL of his policies??? I don't believe so. The economy had nothing to do with 9/11 (except for the initial downturn which happens everytime (Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, Somalia, Beruit, etc). His environmental policies have nothing to do with 9/11. 14) Federal Funds to religeous groups... Almost. He wanted to give federal funding to religeous organizations that provided a benefit to the community (day care for welfare mothers who were working, job training, after school programs for disadvantaged youth, etc.). The local food pantry that supplies food to several hundred families is run off federal funds as well as private and corporate donations. UNFORTUNATELY, it is also run out of the Lutheran Church. Should that food pantry, that feeds a thousand kids, be forced to stop accepting federal monies and, therby, shut down? It isn't just religeous groups (the Masons, The Knights of Columbus, The Knights Templar, etc), it is faith-based programs that are providing a valuable and needed service to their community. 15) Proposing cuts to medicare for Cancer Drugs. Again, he might have. I don't keep up with this. 16) Cutting National Forests... I don't keep up with this. 17) More nuclear weapons? Can you prove this? I have heard NOTHING about it, and his military and defense policies are what I stay abreast of mostly (after the economy). As for that website... you are accepting ONE persons "facts" even though they have absolutely no proof to back up their claims. That is not the way to make your point, Alli. You made a very admirable presentation here, however there is no indication of where you got the facts, or how they are valid. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Of course, Waldman would have to know that's a joke, right, Brad? quote: In reading his article, Waldman's perspective is clear to me. quote: They were? Everyone I know was ecstatic, still are, and hope they become permanent. quote: I'd have to disagree that Iraq is an "endless quagmire". As for "Washington gripped by the bitterest partisanship anyone can remember", I suppose Waldman believes that the embittered Democrats are blameless in this, it's all Bush's fault? LOL |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Not entirely true, Ringo. When the government spends substantially more than it receives, the borrowed money being circulated inevitably stimulates the economy. We saw the same thing during Vietnam and, for a time, it almost became public policy during the Reagan administration. quote: See above, Denise. Any one who wants a tax cut in times of war is just dreaming. The only way to avoid paying for an expensive war is to make your children pay for it later. You should explain to all those you know that even bread and circuses aren't free. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
If I remember correctly, Ron, the tax cuts were promised well before the war, so I don't think they really qualify as "bread and circuses". And the war isn't the only expensive thing we're paying for. There's more than one way to trim a budget deficit besides soaking the hard working taxpayers. It's about time we got a break. For starters, I don't think we should be paying our Congressmen/women their full salary for life, and upon their death their full salary to their surviving spouse for the rest of their life, along with free health benefits for life. Second, I think they should all have to pay into Social Security, and live on that with a small stipend of a pension, like the average folks have to do (the lucky ones who have a pension at all, that is.) They are supposed to be public servants, after all, not living in the lap of luxury at our expense. Third, they should not be able to vote their own salary increases. I think that should be determined by an independent committee of taxpayers, not the people who benefit directly from the outcome of the vote. Talk about a conflict of interest! And if they don't like it, they can go look for a real job! And I'm sure tons of money could be saved if the clamps were put on all the pork barrel spending programs they push through and tighter controls were enacted to eliminate as much waste and fraud as possible from the social programs. Yeah, Ron, I'm dreaming. But a democrat will come along in due time, no doubt, to jolt me back to reality, and will even blame the republican for allowing me to dream in the first place! In the meantime, I'll enjoy the dream and the few extra bucks in my pocket while I still can! |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
quote: Amen! |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Ron- Allow me to re-phrase... The events of September 11, 2001- as far as I can see- did not have an effect on the economic policies that President Bush sent through Congress. He did exactly what it was he said he wanted to do during the campaign. I agree that 9/11 DID affect the economy istels, with the slow down of the stock markt, and the lessening of consumer confidence and the increase in defense spending.... It was not, however, an effect on the economic policies. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, but Democrats believe every day is April 15th. - Ronald Reagan I think he nailed it right on the head! |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Democrats: Think globally, act locally Republicans: Think locally, act globally |
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iliana Member Patricius
since 2003-12-05
Posts 13434USA |
Our bank pays about 1% up until you hit about $10,000 in your account -- then you can have a different kind of account that pays almost 2%. The rich get richer....the old saying goes. As far as Bush or Kerry go -- Personally, I think I'll write in John McCain! |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
The fact taht the bank is paying a higher percentage to the more lucrative accounts has nothing to do with politics. It has been this way through both Republican and Democratic administrations. The bank takes our money and puts it into certain investments, as well as lend it out. These investments are paying an average of (well, the last I checked...years ago) 12% and the borrowing rate has gone down to between 6% and 12%. To make money for the shareholders, they have to lower the rates on their accoutns... HOWEVER... when the account has more money that they can invest, and lend, it is more valuable and makes more money, therefore, they can give back a little bit more. The same thing happens with CD's. Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... |
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iliana Member Patricius
since 2003-12-05
Posts 13434USA |
Thanks for the insight, Ringo. |
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ecrivan Member Elite
since 2001-12-10
Posts 3923my own state |
I do hope Bush does not get in for another 4 years even though he shows himself to be more of a decision maker, which I am sure Kerry will be...Bush is leading a democracy but behaves as though he were an autocrat at times, trivializing the constitution and the role of the UN among other things. What's of prime importance is while there are statements regarding leadership, foreign and local issues here, no one here has yet put forth an arguement as to what will keep the current leader from worsening his image abroad as well as at home! As far as I'm concerned the image that America creates can only be counterproductive if the current leader remains in office because he is dead set on allowing the military to trudge along in the Mid-East and Afghanistan.This is where a stubborn leadership is digging its own grave. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: quote: What does that mean? Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Republicans: We are Americans, we need to do something. Democrats: We are Americans, we need to be better at it. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
That's sort of vague, to say the least. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Vague? How so? What does it mean to be an American? |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: Maybe that is evident in election year rhetoric (I don't know ... I can see both sides described either way), but that doesn't comport with my experiences in policy making. No Child Left Behind, for example, is about both doing something and being better at it. The Patriot Act, whether you like it or not, is about doing something and being better at it. Since both of these passed with strong bi-partisan support, perhaps this makes your point more persuasive. But in my own lobbying and advocacy efforts, I found Democrat and Republican lawmakers equally interested in doing things AND doing things better. In short, the conception you get of the political process when you are actively involved in it is much different from the one you get when you merely read about it. I think your distinction is flawed. Jim |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
quote: Personally, I think the Constitution is what sets us apart as American. Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
And what does the constitution say? Aside from the administrative stuff? C'mon, Jim, I know you've read it too. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Just testing out what it feels like to pull a "Brad" ... In the most general sense, I think American citizenship involves embracing the idealogy that the United States is a country formed by and for the people. I agree with the late Chief Justice Jay in his commentary on the Constitution's Preamble: quote: Being an "American" citizen is enjoying a form of government that provides all the requisite rights and protections for prosperity and happiness. Not the least of which is our right to vote, which is an affirmation that the government does, indeed, proceed from the will of the people. Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Let Brad be Brad. Jim be Jim, Pete be Pete, Severn be Severn, let us be. Let us love poetry in our own way. And let us be Liberal (not the American idea of liberal but the definition). For that is what all are in essence. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Let us think liberally and proceed cautiously. That is a compromise I can live with. Jim |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Okay. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I love Ron, I love Denise, I love everybody who cares about this place. I love what we are. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Good. Now about the "Republicans need to do something vs. Democrats need to be better at it" thing ... I still think the construct is flawed. Actually, it seems more like a construct built with constructs. Are you a social constructionist, Brad? Jim |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Brad, I'm begginning to feel left out. (sniff, sniff). Stephen.  |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Brad, you forgot to say you love Stephen! I love you Stephen. (that's my youngest brother's name too )I love all of you equally, but some more than others. Kerry for President.  |
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JoshG Member
since 2004-11-16
Posts 127TX, USA |
4 more years hmmm.. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ooops -- an non-Freudian slip, I assure you. I love you, Stephen. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
I love you too, Brad! |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Same to ya, Brad. And I mean it. We're all getting kinda mushy here aren't we? "Mushy" is good sometimes. Stephen. |
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