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Philosophy 101
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Ghosts...
| Philosophy 101 |
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Ghosts... |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Do you believe in Ghosts?  |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
Should I? |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
No. |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
er why not? |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
What do you mean by ghost? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
When I think of "Ghost" I imagine the soul as a body in of itself detached from nature and doomed to hover along with no feeling but the feeling of wanting feeling...endlessly the deadlong day and night trying to muster and retain some light to be seen but unable and dismissed forgotten by beholders . Do you think that this is a punishment and that ghosts actually are serving there time around us and touching into our daily activities? |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
No, I personally don't believe in ghosts....but if I say that out loud they'll try to prove me wrong!  |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"er why not?" ~ Was that question directed towards me? |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
I think we are the ghosts and the ones that we think to be ghosts are humans... Sometimes I do a lot of lateral thinking (or whatever!!!) Regards, Sudhir [This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (10-31-2002 11:07 AM).] |
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SEA 
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
I don't think of ghosts in the way you described them. But do I think spirits visit us? Do I think they can walk among us? Yes, to a point. I think they can and do. I don't think it's a punishment though. I think it's a need for us more than for them. To have them visit. I don't think they get "stuck" either. I think they do have emotions and can feel. I could make this really long and drawn out, but I won't LOL, I have kids' faces to paint  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
SEA--your description makes me think on angels...  [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-31-2002 08:54 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Sudhir--that's very humancentric though...what about other animals? Aren't they or don't they have ghosts? Don't they see ghosts? [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-31-2002 08:58 PM).] |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
er, why not ~ Was that question directed towards me? Yes Opeth... it was. |
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Marge Tindal
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
quote:Well ... my belief doesn't follow your explanation - (not that I think you're wrong ... only that it's a different view of understanding than mine.) My perception is personally based on facts present in my own realm of belief and first-hand knowledge of Spirits who make themselves known to me~ My belief is one of openess to be the receptor for the Spirits to come and gift me with knowledge of their existence~ (and they do) I personally haven't found that any of them feel they are caught in a 'punishment' state of being~ In my understanding 'angels' represent a separate identity all together ... that's not to say that 'some' of the visitations aren't 'angelic' in nature ... only that they are a different entity in my perceptions~ Very interesting discussion ... thank you~ Sincerely~ ~*Marge*~ ~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~ |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Because believing in ghosts defies logic. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I find often the vagueness of the heart and gut alone are more accurate than the detailed and millioned articulations the mind conveys out in thoughts, that, become and make very narrow the belief-way. The heart and gut have the boundless capacity that the truth deserves, better fitting and observing. In thoughts many will probably not believe in ghosts, for they sound very ridiculous to the mechanics of mind and reason. But in the heart, we can oft know there something, but just can't translate it well enough for the more narrow discoures of the mind--this is the impediment of truth--just because it doesn't fit into reason, we will tend to dismiss it and call it unreal or not a parcel of it. I believe there is something verily there, that is alive and spiritual, but if its one thing or many things, a seperate entity or only of us, is one's own opinion I ween. We have so many names, words, thoughts...there has to be something there. If it is spirit perhaps we have to learn to observe more with the spirit though it may not fit into our present state of discourse/reasoning. [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-03-2002 10:17 AM).] |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Essorant, I don't believe in "spooks" or "ghosts" in the folkish way of fictional lore... like in ghost stories, or scary movies. However I do believe in Spirits in the sense that we as humans have a spiritual entity which is neither mind, nor body. It is that which is the most essential "life" within us. It is that which is created in the image of God. To say I believe in Spirits is to say that I believe that our life can be separated from our body. However I don't believe it is (for the most part) permited for us to stay in the terra firma after death. Hebrews tells us "It is appointed for man to die once and after this, the judgement". People who experience Spirit communication, may be experiencing angelic, or even demonic beings. Scripturally this is another non-human order of life. Demons I believe can pose as people, lost relatives, or "angels of light". The occult is a dangerous area with which to tamper. That's why the Bible forbids Spiritism. To worship God only is the best thing to do. Of course these things are marvelous to ponder. I just think without some revelation of truth, we may run into folk-lore, demonism, or metaphysical absurdity. But ultimately I believe in spirits because this is the essential being of us all, made in God's image. Without it, you have thoroughgoing naturalism/ materialism. Every thought, emotion, even things such as love, fear, friendship and humor, are only chemical reactions in the cortex... unless we have a maker and an element created in his image. Stephen. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
what about "ghosts" as the electrical residue of someone? thoughts are what make a person a person. thoughts are electrical signals run through your brain. the energy has to go somewhere when the body passes on, perhaps sometimes the electrical currents stick around and mix with [your] electrical currents, giving you the impression of the person as they were. thoughts (electrical impulses / ghosts) to consider. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"But in your heart, you know there is something, you just can't translate it well..." ~ In whose heart...yours? You said, "But in your heart..." Not in mine. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
Yes. Even if there are no free spirts, there are many types of ghosts ~The ghosts of your past ~The ghosts of those close to you, you can always feel them, even if is not them, they are just, I don't know, there. So yes, I do belive in ghosts |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Opeth? I defy logic too. Do you not believe in ME?  just call me--the "spirit of fun"-- [This message has been edited by serenity blaze (11-02-2002 09:43 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
My belief is openly scizophrenic, how can one keep one mind or personality in such a cloudy subject or notion as "Ghosts". It is flipflopping and ticklishy amid many. I can't decide how to believe in ghosts, though I feel certain I do believe in them. Though I have some difficulty with a complete segration of nature and ghost, good and evil, demon and angel, heaven and hell. It seems there must be always a bit of either in other. Though one of these aspects might become evanid or faint to a point where it is unvisible to most observers, even to the owner. Often when we think in these notions, it seems, we will call seperate entities the various personalities and attributes of our own ghost to say that we don't have a personal relationship with these qualities, but they are intruders from another realm. There are some evils in all of us, aren't there? Are they seperate ghosts? I don't believe more strongly that they are than that they are probably just nature. To me most of the time, all bodies, ghostly and wordly, are bodies of nature, the foundation of one realm, not special exempted segregations where some are inside nature and some outside, or inside good and outside. I said "detached" from nature earlier but that was more imagination speaking. Segregation or seperation is an aspect of a human plan, not a divine or natural one, we are all part of everything and everything is part of us--there is no escaping nature, we have it and all its potentials, forever, only able to partialy control what fully controls our fate. And Isn't this how and where we learn, in and at much friction of differences, ghostly and wordly? If there was no friction would we feel anything at all? [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-03-2002 12:25 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Opeth, There is no "your" in my paragraph...you must be seeing things... Ghosts??? [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-03-2002 10:42 AM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Yes. Wind wrote: quote: I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. I wish people would follow this point up. It's far more interesting than the idea of supernatural entities. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I like Winds comment because he notices the "feeling" aspect, ghosts aren't invisible to all senses, they are touching ones we sometimes did't even know we had. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
[This message has been edited by a Ghost (11-07-2002 08:48 PM).] [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-07-2002 08:53 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Brad?! I will call the ghostbusters on you. Please put my message back, if you can |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Huh, I'm not a Ghost, I didn't do it, honest. Hmmm, maybe there's something to this supernaturual thing after all. Nah, |
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fractal007 Senior Member
since 2000-06-01
Posts 1958 |
eh...... I don't like to make any commitments about ghosts. But I generally don't believe the things people say on tv documentaries about ghosts. After all, there's a sucker born every minute. I like to make sure I wasn't the lucky guy back in the minute I was born in 1981. "If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh" |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"Opeth? I defy logic too. Do you not believe in ME?" ~ Of course, the entity known as Serenity, I have seen your picture and read your words. It is the belief in ghosts that defy logic. [This message has been edited by Opeth (11-08-2002 08:54 AM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I don't agree with you. The cycle of nature itself seems Ghosts rising between bodies, and bodies rising between ghosts. They are as much bodies and entities as bone vessels and shells. They are what give animation to matter, the energy given form and personality, our souls, and the souls that exist between our souls, they are ghostly bodies. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
I do believe in ghosts. "Sticks and stones will break my bones, |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
It doesn't surprise me that "suffering souls" would draw the interest of so many people here. In a sense, "suffering souls" have turned out some of the most prominent works of literature, philosophy and art of modern times. Hesse, Nietchze and Van Gogh come readily to mind ... the expression of their respective losses continue to impact us today. Which makes me wonder how much the "ghosts" that haunt us drive our creativity and thinking and how we, in this forum, express our feelings of loss or our restlessness in accepting loss. Not sure if anyone will jump on these thoughts, but they're out there now ... Jim |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Though a good deal is too strange to be believed, nothing is too strange to have happened." --Thomas Hardy I agree with this saying. I feel ghosts often seem too strange to be believed or to fit into what we have compact as logic, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. As Jim attends, the speculation upon ghosts have gotten a hand over the centuries of thought and art. I don't think it will ever let go, a belief in ghosts gives more personality to life, thats why I prefer believing to not believing. [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-12-2002 01:20 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
It is a very uncunning superstition entertained that ghosts don't exist. What are we talking about here, if we are not talking about something that exists? Nothing? Have poets, playwrights, philosphers, supernaturalists, any one who has ever felt, thought, said and written "ghost" been refferring to nothing? It is like pointing a finger at air and saying that that people call that is not really that it is not existing. It is nothing- believe in nothing instead! This elixes no fullfilling essence but empties the glass of light and colour. [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-13-2002 02:07 AM).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Essorant - what you're suggesting is that because someone's written about it, referred to it, it exists? Other things / entities / people commonly referred to by poets, playwrites, etc.: Zeus, Horus, Buddha, Christ, telekenisis, aliens, spirit, Death (as an entity, not the physical actuality), Fate, Mother Nature, Cupid... Just because someone's referred to it, often or not, doesn't mean it is or has existed. That's why it's called fiction. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
...because someone's written about it, referred to it, it exists? It must! You cannot point at something that is not existing, that is paradoxal. It is existing or you wouldn't be to refer to "it" to say it is not existing. We can attend it, talk about it, wonder about it, there for it exists! [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-13-2002 04:14 AM).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
if you're saying it exists as a concept, i agree. if however, as i feel you're suggesting, it exists as a reality in and of itself simply because someone's thought of it, i disagree completely. show me - a Klingon, the Wizard of Oz, Superman, Luke Skywalker, Hades, Set, Tom Sawyer, blaster guns, laser swords, dragons, Ziggy Stardust, dinosaurs at the center of the earth, a time machine... ghosts? they're all concepts, not realities. we make things up to suit our fancies, our desires, our hopes, or our beliefs. yet that we dream of them doesn't bring them into being. [This message has been edited by Christopher (11-13-2002 05:10 AM).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
quote:This is a good topic for another thread, i think - if it hasn't already been addressed. I disagree with you on both counts, however. Your idea is right, but i think the actuality is wrong. I can point at something that's non-existent, because i have the imagination to do so. again, it's called fiction... or dementia, if you want to look at it from another viewpoint. then again, i have issues with the concept of 'paradoxical.' |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"I can point at something that's non-existent, because i have the imagination to do so" That is more paradoxal sentence! You call a something non-existant--a nothing. A thing cannot not exist--it is a thing, therefore it is existing, its existing makes it a thing, and its being a thing makes it existing. It is not that complex, it is just the wordings that get mixed up here and there. Things can only exist! [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-13-2002 02:17 PM).] |
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