»
Discussion
»
The Alley
»
Mad as Zell
| The Alley |
|
Mad as Zell |
|
|
Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia 
|
So, today Dick, you sank to a near-all-time-low in American politics. The only time I can think of that was any worse was when the Federalists were accusing the Republicans of sedition and Adams beat Jefferson by three electoral votes. Of course there was that bit by Jefferson about Adams wanting to install himself as king -- but that was just politics. But, you Dick, today, said outright -- that if Kerry is elected President -- we're going to be attacked. Which of course, would be the electorate's fault then, if there is an attack. Never mind the spit-ball rhetoric from last week when we were told we were fighting over there so that we wouldn't have to fight over here -- but, we should be afraid because there could be an attack over here. Oh, and then there was that real funny bit by Cofer Black in the State Department who said Osama better be looking at his watch because we were going to take him down any time now and had the intel and the mechanisms in place to do it. But, then, Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said Black's remarks were a "political statement" and that nobody in Pakistan knew what the hell he was talking about. I'm not even going to get into the Swift-Boat scam or the Deferment snips by Kerry. Because 1000 of our troops have died and are dying and being wounded in real time while you guys are kicking them around like they're the football -- rehashing a 35 year-old war. Democrats being hypocritical because when it was Bill that was up military service didn't matter -- and Republicans going off in the other direction now. Can we get any more Orwellian? Sure we can. No one is even talking about the real issues. 443 billion dollar deficit -- run up by the small government party. 7.3 trillion-dollar debt being passed on to our kids... and we don't have anything to actually show for it. Just more pork -- we need to roll Ross Perot back out with his charts and giant sucking sound. We should have a Foose car in every driveway and that fancy pre-chewed Japanese beef in every pot. Milton Friedman of the Chicago school, lamenting Richard Nixon's Keynsian ways made the proclamation that a tax-cut isn't a tax-cut unless it's accompanied by a reduction in spending. What we have with this Repbulican Congress and Republican President is the most Keynsian affair that has ever been in Washington, both increasing spending by nearly 100 percent since Y2K and reducing taxes at the same time. That 'permanent' tax cut Bush keeps talking about -- is a permanent tax increase for your (and my) kids. Period. And we're not using it to invest in anything substantial that's going to build any infrastructure for future growth that might actually pay for all this debt. What's more -- we're running out of lenders and can only borrow from PacRim banks now (that's called China). All of this is bad enough -- except the only Bi-Partisan thing that's getting done right now in Washington is a bunch of gerrymandering to make sure that everybody in Congress gets to keep his seat so that we have an even lower turn-over in Congress than the old Soviet Politburo. After Zell's speech labeling the Democrats as a danger to the war and now Cheney's comments -- it doesn't matter who wins. There won't be anybody feeling like working with the other party to get things done. Is John McCain the only sane man left in politics? Forget Chris Matthews Zell -- I want to see everybody in Washington with dueling pistols and lets get this over with now. |
||
| © Copyright 2004 Local Rebel - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
This morning I saw video footage from the Chechen school in which a frightened child, not much older than my youngest, was shown with his hands behind his head as a Jihadist had his foot on a bomb's detonator. Knowing the outcome of this terrorist act, there is an approximate 50% chance that this young child was murdered by these militants. http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_145_images/090704_kid_hands_450.jpg While Saddam was in power in Iraq, he was an active proponent of militant Islamic groups and their Jihad against Israel and the West. Post-Saddam, Iraq continues to struggle internally with militant factions who are willing to resort to murder to establish a fundamentalist Muslim state. In a speech yesterday, Kerry continued his assault on Bush's treatment of Iraq. His campaign rhetoric makes it unclear to me whether he intends to maintain an American military presence in Iraq until a moderate Iraqi government can be stabilized. Hawke, in another thread you compared Jihadist Fascism to the mythological hydra. The only way Hercules killed the hydra was to burn the stumps after severing the head. Which of the candidates do you think has the commitment to burn the stumps? Surely it's ugly work, but if I was to bet money on whether the Texan or the Senator was more likely to prevent me from ever seeing video footage of children who are about to die, many of them ultimately blown up or shot in the back, I'm stacking my bets with the Texan. I can live with incendiary campaign rhetoric. I don't want to live under leadership that gives the "hydra" an opportunity to sprout two heads from where the last was severed. I guess after seeing that video, I'm a two issue voter now. Jim |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Jim, Gotta disagree. The current adminstration is fighting the Cold War. It neither has the will nor the intelligence to see this for what it is. Are you safer today? Given what's happened in the last three years, it boggles the mind that anyone can say yes. |
||
|
jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: I can't say I feel much safer, but that really isn't the only important question. Another is whether both candidates have the wherewithal to persist until I and my family are safe. You think Kerry is committed to stamping out Jihadist Islam? If he is not, even if I am not safe today, will I be safe tomorrow? And in what ways are the current administration's approach to terrorism analogous to Cold War policy? I don't see it. Jim [This message has been edited by jbouder (09-08-2004 10:58 AM).] |
||
|
Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
The weapon of the cold war was the threat of complete mutual annihilation. I don't think the Bush administration is threatening anything. It looks more like action to me. Yes, I feel safer than I did three years ago but not nearly as safe as I thought I was then. We were caught with "our collective pants down." I don't think any of us imagined such a thing could happen. We now know better. This international terrorism has to be stopped and I am confident that Bush has a much stronger approach toward that end than Kerry. I hate sending our military around the world to fight a largely unseen enemy. But I still think that is a more productive alternative than relying on France or the UN to defend our citizens. Pete |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Sorry Pete, gotta disagree. Curious though. How has terrorism gone down in the last three years? It's not that I disagree with the idea, it's that the idea isn't being implemented. Now why is that? If you feel safer, why? |
||
|
jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: During the Battle of Midway, was American victory in the Pacific secured? At Bastogne, was Hitler's defeat assured? Is a person who uses a wheelchair any better off while fighting a Supreme Court case to make his local courthouse accessible? Were the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement any better off before the Civil Rights Act was enacted? After taking heavy losses Midway and Bastogne we continued to fight and we won. The gentleman in the wheelchair persisted with his ADA claim and won. The Civil Rights leaders persisted and they won. What would have happened if they stopped fighting mid-way? There are short-term goals and long-term objectives. I think if you take a fair look at the administration's record, you'll find that many short-term goals have been met (there have been no successful domestic attacks since 9/11 - except, perhaps, for the anthrax mailings) while others, admittedly, still need work. But the long-term objectives will never be realized if we fail to strive toward the next short-term benchmark. The results of reaching the benchmark may not seem all that impressive in and of itself, but with persistence, the long-term objective will be met. Jim |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Okay Jim (and Pete), I'm willing to listen. but don't pretend that it's going to be an easy argument. You've got some work to do. My absentee ballot goes out tomorrow. And everybody knows who I'm voting for. |
||
|
jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: I wouldn't dream of thinking it will be easy. But given that (1) your "are you safe" question is not proof that incremental benchmarks reached to date by the current administration are ineffectual steps towards our "big picture" objectives, and (2) you have not yet made your case, I too am listening. Or should I move for summary judgment?  Jim |
||
|
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
I'd be more impressed with George W. if he spent more time focused on said conflict than on the upcoming elections. Don't know how well it would stand him in the polls, but I might even put a vote in for him if he forgot about the campaign completely and actually worked on his promises instead of simply verbalizing them. A thought on "safety". I wonder how the average American would respond to that same question. It seems to me that not many think about the war very often, unless they have a family member out that way or are more world-conscious. Quite a stark difference between the average response and involvement now, than, say, WWII. |
||
|
Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
One unfortunate quirk of the way our system works is that it does require any politician to take some time away from the job in order to run for reelection. I'm afraid any president (or senator for that matter) regardless how popular or how important his position might be would almost surely suffer defeat at the polls if he ignored campaining, even for the higher purpose of doing the job he was actually elected to do. Depending on how you might view the importance of his position or duties, this could have severly negative consequences. |
||
|
Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Well Chris, did people want FDR running around the country in his shirtsleeves gladhanding during the big one? Or did they want him doing his job? Which did he do? What did he get? Elected 4 times. Jim, How do you cauterize the wound if you're not going to commit genocide? You have different groups of heads like Hamas and Quada out there competing for the larger Islamic resource of disenfranchised young men and women who are easily led into blowing themselves up -- In a short time Blair is going be out of office, and so will Sharif -- do you think there is going to be a groundswell of international support coming to help us? You're right -- Kerry is ramping up the Iraq debate as well -- I'm criticizing him too. Did you notice out of 10 responses so far everyone is focused on the magician's empty hand? It's the other hand.... Pete, After the first World Trade Center attacks we didn't have another successful domestic terror attack for 8 years. The Bush admin has gone for 3. What's the big deal? They couldn't even keep protesters out of the inner sanctum of the RNC. Should have been the most secure building in the world. |
||
Mistletoe Angel 
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
First, as a little preamble, let me say I watched Zell's speech and it was a difficult thing to watch. It wasn't so much what he said than how he said it and the face he wore all throughout it. His demeanor was white hot angry and something that made me feel uneasy deep inside. I watched Hardball after the end of his speech and Zell, in my opinion, was throwing quite a temper. I think it is somewhat unfair to use "hate" as a synonym for his persona that evening, as it is more of an intuitive argument in what defines hate in a speech, but Zell's demeanor at the convention is by far the angriest and most aggressive in a convention I've witnessed in my life. Anyway, I'm also disappointed with what Cheney said. I can tell too he agrees he went over the line by quickly clarifying it. It sounded like what he was insinuating was if Kerry is elected, the terrorists will win and there will certainly be another 9/11. I just find these accusations and theories troubling. Using fear as a campaign device is inappropriate, and will only create more anxiety and stress among the general public. Fear is a weapon in itself which can hemorrhage ever so many hearts and create disillusionment. Regardless of how the Democrats may differ in resolving the war on terror in comparison to the Republicans, this is not good-natured campaign talk. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
