»
Discussion
»
The Alley
»
Alternative to war?
| The Alley |
|
Alternative to war? |
|
rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA 
|
I have seen here, and other places, the opinion that we should not be going to war. That peace will always win.. ect. My opinion is we should be over there. That is where my opinion ends for this post. I dont want to raddle on and on about why I think we should be over there. All I want this post to be about what other choices we have.. not a huge discussion about why we shouldn't be over there. I don't want to see the reasons why war is bad or how the president sucks. I just want to know what other alternatives everyone thinks we have to war. As I mentioned before.. I am totally behind this... so I really don't have an alternative "wake me up inside |
||
| © Copyright 2003 Tara Baldridge - All Rights Reserved | |||
KristieSue
since 2003-01-31
Posts 1460PA, US |
we could NOT go to war... I heard someone say that if we had Al Gore for President, we would not be at war. That's the truth. In 10 yrs we'd be wiped off the earth because we didn't take action now... IMHO :-) |
||
|
rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA |
LOL very true... very true  "wake me up inside |
||
|
KristieSue
since 2003-01-31
Posts 1460PA, US |
Hey! I have another idea (I'm just FULL of them today)...and getting angrier by the second I read some opinions here.... we could HELP Saddam again. I mean, we could make him an even greater power and give him some WMD he DOESN'T have....since he is such the Underdog here. Then we could go after North Korea...I mean, since Saddam is loyal and doing NO WRONG.... yeah...why don't we put some paper bags over our heads and see how much BRIGHTER things get :-) ugh |
||
|
Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
The only alternative to war once war has begun is peace. If you’re asking what alternatives there were before we went to war…. well that’s a different question. There are some people, I admit, that condemn war for any reason, with regard to disarming Iraq my own opinion was, and still is, that they are clutching at a dream of some utopia that sadly doesn’t exit. The rest of us accept that under certain circumstances war is unavoidable, that at some point there is no alternative but to use force. In the case of Iraq before the war the argument revolved around whether that point had been reached, the US, UK and several other countries maintained that it had been reached. Some countries, France, Germany, China and others maintained that it had not yet been reached but accepted that it was a future possibility. America and its coalition of the willing recognised that the backing of the UN was not a clear-cut certainty if the decision went to a vote. Especially as France had clearly stated that if any resolution which contained an automatic trigger for war was presented they would use their power of veto to defeat it. In a perfect world Saddam would have disarmed and war would have been unnecessary. In a semi-perfect world a resolution for Saddam to disarm according to a strict timetable would have been passed with the arrangement for a second resolution to take place if, in the opinion of the weapons inspectors, Saddam was acting to intentionally not meet the targets of the timetable. My opinion is that such a resolution laid out in plain language and using a reasonable timetable should have been accepted by the security council. It is also my opinion that Saddam would have dragged his feet and attempted to avoid disarmament and that ultimately the UN Security Council would have voted for, and passed, a resolution calling for military intervention. But then again this isn’t even a semi-perfect world, is it? [This message has been edited by Crazy Eddie (03-21-2003 04:20 PM).] |
||
|
rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA |
Thank you for responding eddie  And yes.. you are right.. before we went to war what alternatives were there lol. My wording was a little off huh?I was just curious about what other thought we could do. As you said, under certain circumstances war is unaviodable. Again, thanks for your words "wake me up inside call my name and save me from the dark" -Bring Me To Life by Evanescence [This message has been edited by rosepetals25 (03-21-2003 05:31 PM).] |
||
Greeneyes 
since 2000-09-09
Posts 9903In Your Poetic Mind |
I think we tend to forget he and others are a terror to us all....I hate the fact that war is upon us, that men and women have to fight for freedom, but in the same sense, we can not let "them" do this to the US or any other "nation" "country" involved.....I work for the media, its a "tough" job, with opinions and views, I hear it all.....its tough, and if we all got along we wouldnt worry about this....I dont know that I am making my point clearly...but I feel the terror instilled in this is not right either...therefore the "we's" need to do what needs to be done to stop this....ramble...sorry hugssssss muwwwwaaaaaahhhhsss and more hugsssssss Lauren~ I close my eyes and there in the shadows I see your light |
||
|
Auguste
since 2000-02-16
Posts 3953By the sea |
By not enforcing its own resolutions the United Nations left us with no alternatives. Now that war is upon us, I feel we should support our president and troops, as well as those of our allies. Saddam could have offered up his WMD's, he could have gone into exile. He had choices, but he chose war, we did not. I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Cold War, however, I find the world we now live in to be a more frightening place. No sane human being wants war, but sometimes it is forced upon us. I only hope and pray that as few lives as possible, both civilian and military, can be spared. This is not a war about oil, it's about "civilization" as we now know it. God bless our troops, our president, and God bless the United States of America. |
||
|
Honeybee Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-26
Posts 5372Ontario, CANADA |
hehe how did I know that you'd post something like this?  I'm torn in my decision. On one hand I knew that war was inevitable as it was clearly proven that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction and I wholeheartedly say that I despise Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein - they are evil and pose major threats to the entire world. However, I still hate war. I'm just torn. 37 innocent Iraqi civillians - some including university students and children have been injured already and that saddens me. I agree that Bush made the right decision in setting a deadline for Hussein to comply with, and thus he and Tony Blair had to take aggresive action when Hussein ignored their warnings. I agree that Hussein brought this on himself and that the U.N. should have enforce their own resolutions. But I completely disagree with the 'shock and awe' tactic - and from what's I've heard on Canadian, British and American news and from the people I've already spoken with - I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the world is also disgusted with the 'shock and awe.' So yeah I have strong opinions and I'm still torn because I hate war and the thought of innocent people suffering, but, at the same time I understand why there must be a war. My main problem with accepting the war is that Bush is an arrogant, uneducated, sexist fascist and don't forget that he's a trigger-happy moron! I truly have no respect for that man and thank God that I'm Canadian. Perhaps if Al Gore or Colin Powell were the president, then I'd feel differently about the war because I have a deep admiration and respect for them. But, Bush sickens me. Saddam is evil to the core, but, Bush is not innocent either, he's just as bad in my opinion. And I am extremely proud of the Canadian government for standing up to Bush and stating that we want no part of his war! Of course my prayers are with the American and British troops and with the innocent Iraqi civillians, but, I just want this war to be over with soon. [This message has been edited by Honeybee (03-24-2003 12:08 AM).] |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Aw, patootie, it's so easy to call people names. Since I recently learned from your last poem that you have brains instead of breasts , then you should have no problem giving your reasons for your glowing description of Bush...uneducated... Sexist....... fascist...... trigger-happy. Moron........ Certainly an educated person like you must have valid reasons to use these terms. Care to share them....? |
||
|
rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA |
I would have to agree with Michael.. can you tell me why Bush is all these things? Bush gets ALOT of flack. To tell you the truth... I really winced when he became president (which isn't saying alot.. I would have winced more if Gore had been elected LOL). I think he has been doing a good job of handling this situation so far.. my humble opinion. No one, however, has answered my question. What could we have done INSTEAD of war? I see SO MANY opinions against war... what could have happened differently? Go back BEFORE the 48 hour warning was given.. what could have been done? I guess I'm just frustrated because I see ppl protesting and get all enraged about going to war. When I see people get asked what else can we do, on tv or clips here from the internet, they never have answers. Saddam has to be stopped.. but don't hurt anything.... I don't mean for that to be aimed at anyone in the forums directly. I definately don't mean to offend anyone, I know it is easy to do right now with emotions running high. I guess maybe I'm just trying to understand the other side better? Tara "in my field of paper flowers and candy clouds of lullaby i lie inside myself for hours and watch my purple sky fly over me" - Imaginary by Evanes [This message has been edited by rosepetals25 (03-24-2003 11:07 AM).] |
||
|
Honeybee Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-26
Posts 5372Ontario, CANADA |
Dangit M'deer you're always keeping lil ole me on my toes aren't ya! :P The fact that Bush gets so much flack is proof enough that he is not respected on the whole. I respected his father and found that he had class and intelligence, but, Bush Jr. I just cannot respect. Saddam must be stopped there's no doubt about that, but, it's hard to accept that Bush is in the right in this case when every other time he appears to be so offensive. You get my point? So yes, Bush has every right to take strong measures against Saddam/Iraq, but, from what I've read and seen and heard from Bush's mouth in the past, he is sexist, he always opts for violence, he is extremely arrogant and has made rude attacks on Canada and our primeminister and furthermore he just seems so misinformed on other issues, he's got smarts yes, but, he's really not worldly in his intelligence. I'm just going by what myself, family and friends here and around the world have seen from Bush and let me tell ya that there's a plethora of people who just don't like the guy - he rubs people the wrong way. And well umm I can't prove that he's a moron hehe it's actually an inside joke...a Canadian politician called Bush a moron months ago and there was a brief uproar. So it seems to be the trend for people to call Bush a moron....at least is it in Canada and England. So I guess that I'm unoriginal in that sense  |
||
|
Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
quote: Err….I thought I had. quote: |
||
|
Miah Senior Member
since 2002-08-26
Posts 1062Pennsylvania |
I wouldn't say I am for the war, but who is for war? I do however, support our president and the reasons why we are there. It is not like we are over there trying to rule their country, we want Saddam out! From what I come to understand is we plan on having them keep their oil after the war, so they can have revenue and trade. (With probably a nice discount for us)lol. We do not want innocent people to die and are trying to keep it that way. We are not the ones that are using our own people as human shields either. I think we tend to forget that Saddam has promoted, supported and probably aided terrorism. He also did not keep his promise after the gulf war to get rid of his weapons of mass destruction. We gave him like 12 years to live up to that bargin, which he did not keep. I pray every night that the war will end peacfully. I don't know if there could have been an alternative to war. What I know now is that we are there, and I pray for the men and woman over there who are fighting for you and for me. I also pray for those that have no part in this, all the innocents. Anyway, what do I know?, I'm not the popular opinion anway. [This message has been edited by Miah (03-24-2003 12:16 PM).] |
||
|
Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
Adding my couple of pennies... I'm not too sure we had too many other options, honestly. Due to my background, and the fact that I have family that is deployable ( and will hopefully stay that way), and that I have friends over there in the middle of the whole thing, I have been keeping track of this from almost the very beginning. What most people don't realize is that this chapter started back before Bush, Jr. even started running for Pres. Bill Clinton had almost the exact same policy, however he never attempted to resolve the situation. As a domestic leader, I feel that our President could do a better job, however I am in complete agreement with him once he hits the water's edge (foreign policy), and I am absolutely positive that history will vindicate him, just as it did FDR, Abraham Lincoln, and Winston Churchill. ALL three of those men were thought very poorly of in their time, however, they are historical icons now. I feel Geo. W. will similarly be thought of in 50 years. Just my thoughts. ~You might say I'm a Dreamer, but I'm not the only one... |
||
|
rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA |
First I have to say ... sorry Eddie LOL. It was early and I just gotten out of bed not to long before I made that post. I just want make sure you know I wasn't ignoring your post.. I have to say that I have NEVER seen anything that would make Bush a sexist. As a matter a fact.. I never even heard that claim before. Everyone has opinions though... I agree with you Miah and completely support and share your unpopular opinion lol. You're not alone Thank you for sharing your thoughts Ringo. I hope your friends and family members make it back home safe and sound. Thank you to everyone that responded. I don't to leave anyone out... I appreciate the responses. Tara "in my field of paper flowers and candy clouds of lullaby i lie inside myself for hours and watch my purple sky fly over me" - Imaginary by Evanes [This message has been edited by rosepetals25 (03-24-2003 02:35 PM).] |
||
|
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
quote:http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html Gee...I haven't done any of this - perhaps it is I who might be the moron here...  But since he IS the President of the United States, and because I was raised to respect those who are in office [right OR wrong...] I will simply say...this man is doing the best job he knows how to do given the support of his country... and that's ALL I'm going to say on President Bush. As to the initial question of the thread... We tried to let Saddam prove that he could be fair, tolerant, respectful, generous, and a true leader to his countrymen. But then we have to look at the world as our HOME.... and we had to say "enough". When children don't grow up, and the parent eventually comes home, discipline has to and should occur. [This message has been edited by Sunshine (03-24-2003 02:44 PM).] |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Sorry, Melissa, you gave no valid reasons there for using the adjectives you used at all. I'm sorry to see you resort to such name-calling of another country's leader without even having proper reasons for doing so. You are certainly entitled to air your opinions but it would favor you more to state them as opinions and not fact, otherwise you are invalidating whatever you say.. |
||
|
Honeybee Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-26
Posts 5372Ontario, CANADA |
I respect your reasoning M'deer, but, yes I do have a PROVEN right to refer to Bush as a sexist - I've seen him on TV with my own eyes and have heard him with my own ears (they work well yanno!). And quite a few times I've heard him say deragatory remarks against Canada's primeminister Jean Chretien and against Canada as a whole. And no one insults my beautiful country!!!! I once clearly saw Bush roll his eyes at Jean Chretein - now that's uncouth and the camera caught him! So yes I do have the proof as I have seen and heard Bush's ill-educated views. And, I'm sorry but Bush's arrogance is very transparent, you'd have to be blind not to see it ooze from him. I also don't agree with his opinions on gun control or abortion (but that's beside the point). And just because he has been schooled doesn't truly mean that he is educated well about the world and I find that he knows nothing about Canada even though we are his neighbours - that's sad on his part really. I'm not the only Canadian who feels this way as many have seen and heard him say derogatory things against Canada and I've had this discussion with more people than I can count and the majority of them refer to Bush in the same way. My mother, her husband, my Canadian friends, my American relatives and friends, my British relatives and friends have ALL also heard and read the plethora of wrong things that Bush has said and done, so I truly hope that you or anyone here wouldn't even dare to call them liars either, because we are all basing our opinion on him on what HE has done. He's offensive, plain and simple. And although he is doing the best job that he can humanly do to defend his country against Iraq, and yes he is in the right, it's just hard for people to respect someone who is usually in the wrong. For once he's in the right. Like I said, I respect his father Bush Sr., but, George Bush Jr. just really turns me off. And I agree with you that name calling is better left for five year olds...but trust me when I say that what I wrote was very tame compared to other views I've heard and read. That doesn't justify it, but, it's almost laughable what I wrote. Seriously M'deer you have a valid point and I do agree with most of what you say as you are an educated man and I have always admired you, but, I am no liar and I never just say things to stir things up, I have seen and heard Bush say many silly things and that's that. So yes these are my opinions and I share them with many others, but if Bush has done these wrongs then they become fact. If you want quotes, video footage or newspaper clippings then I'm sorry but I don't physically have them right now, but, I have my memory and I know what I've read, seen and heard. I know that I sound redundant, but, I must stress this point. "Poetry is not an opinion expressed... it is a song that rises from a bleeding wound...or a smiling mouth" ~Kahlil Gibran~ [This message has been edited by Honeybee (03-24-2003 08:39 PM).] |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Well, patootie, you have me at a disadvantage by being in possession of so many facts I'm not aware. For example, I cannot recall one derrogatory thing he has ever said about Canada, I missed the footage of him rolling his eyes and I must confess that I'm blind based on the fact that I have never once seen him ooze! You seem adamant in the fact that he knows nothing about Canada...I wonder where that insistency comes from. I didn't even know that he was "usually in the wrong" as you seem to know for a fact in some way. As far as arrogant is concerned, some people view self-confidence as arrogance. There is little difference between the two. Be all that as it may, you are going to have your opinions and that is your right. May he be an oozer, a boozer and a loser in your eyes but I have only one request.... And no one insults my beautiful country!!!! ...but you give yourself the right to insult the head of my country. Speak against him, say you don't agree with him, stand against him but please grant us the same courtesy you expect with regards to insulting behavior. As Local Rebel so eloquently said, "Bush may be a moron but he's OUR moron." Please consider that.... |
||
|
Honeybee Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-26
Posts 5372Ontario, CANADA |
Self-confidence is beautiful, however, there is a fine line between that and arrogance; and the later is not beautiful at all. And I find Bush to be a little too overly self-confident, which becomes arrogance and I'm not the only one who has been offended by him. I have known many self-confident people, but they don't ooze with arrogance, so yes there is a difference between the two. Colin Powell, Al Gore and George Bush Sr. are wonderfully self-confident, but, Bush Jr. is arrogant and yes that is my opinion and doesn't have to be fact. Funny how you quote me "no one insults my beautiful country" in trying to make it sound like I have no merit behind my feelings; well I have heard Bush insult Canada a few times and for the second time I have seen Bush roll his eyes at Chretein on the news and that does give me the right to disrespect Bush. For the record, he insulted us first and thus I can and will have my opinions. He WAS in the wrong first plain and simple. You'll just have to accept that he has done less than honourable things and that I and other Canadians are offended. I'm usually a happy-go-lucky, shy person hehe believe it or not, but, even I get offended and therefore get feisty. And just because you didn't see the footage that I saw doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I clearly saw what I saw and you should not question it nor should you question what my family and friends have also seen. It's very bold to call someone a liar in a roundabout sort of way. My eyes and ears work well and I am the most honest person in the world, sometimes I'm too blunt however, but, I am honest and accurate in what I say. Hence the reason why I haven't written down any quotes yet because I would never want to get even one word wrong. Therefore I go by memory which can be misconstrued as 'opinion' and not fact when in theory it is fact without the quotation marks. I love to learn and luckily I pay for the best cable service there is - which is even better than satelite. I have access to Canadian news, American news, British news, Indian news, Asian news, Austrailian news, French news, Italian and Greek news....and I have seen worldly views on Bush some of which are just opinons and are not fact. However, many do provide exact quotes and untampered footage of Bush and for the last time I have seen and heard him say derrogatory things against Canada. I'm so sick of people who haven't seen what one person has seen and then proclaim that it doesn't exist. So because you have never seen me in person, does that mean that I don't exist? You obviously respect Bush, to each and own and all the power to you. But, I personally have no respect for much of what he does. And yeah Bush is your moron and that's why I think the way I do. He's not Canadian and thus I have the luxury of not having to tolerate him as much as I would if he were Canadian. "Poetry is not an opinion expressed... it is a song that rises from a bleeding wound...or a smiling mouth" ~Kahlil Gibran~ [This message has been edited by Honeybee (03-24-2003 09:59 PM).] |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
"Funny how you quote me "no one insults my beautiful country" in trying to make it sound like I have no merit behind my feelings" No, I didn't say it for that reason at all... Get over yourself! Welcome to a new reality. Canada as well as the rest of the world will not tolerate your global bullying and arrogance anymore Remember those words, Melissa? They are yours, written almost a full year ago. That's why I said that...to show the difference between what you expect and what you give. Enjoy your feistiness, my neighbor...as for me, I've said all I want to say here. I appealed to your understanding and integrity and have nothing more to offer. Time to move on....  |
||
|
Honeybee Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-26
Posts 5372Ontario, CANADA |
Yes I remember those words well and I'm still proud of them today and I do recall that I wrote them after your fellow countrymen from New York and Michigan booed the Canadian national anthem for no valid reason. Another instance where Canadians have the right to get offended. Then we move on no problem at all, I'm taking this with a grain of salt because you and I are friends and we just don't agree in this case and I can accept that. It would be a boring world if everyone agreed. But, I stand behind all that I've said in this thread because I am honest and I do have my opinions yes, but, I also have fact. And just because someone doesn't like a fact doesn't mean that it isn't true. [This message has been edited by Honeybee (03-24-2003 10:46 PM).] |
||
|
anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
48 hours before the war? Well a game of poker. The person with the full house wins. Sorry, a bit of levity never hurt anyone. I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant. |
||
|
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
LOL! Nope, levity never hurt anyone for sure By the way, for anyone who might have the wrong impression, Melissa and I have been friends a long time - such good friends that we can push each other like this without danger of it harming our friendship in the slightest...which is as it should be. Deep down inside - she's a pussycat!  |
||
|
KristieSue
since 2003-01-31
Posts 1460PA, US |
it's nice to know that people can have two differences of opinion and still remain good friends! Kudos to maturity!!! Failure isn't failure if a lesson from it is learned ~ KS |
||
|
Red Member
since 2000-01-01
Posts 143Ca |
"1) Texas Governor George W. Bush: I'm glad to have the support of Prime Minister Jean 'Poutine.'" --- From Rick Mercer's Top Ten favourite Talking to Americans segment---- found here: hehe tut tut Bush! |
||
|
Honeybee Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-26
Posts 5372Ontario, CANADA |
hehe And don't forget that I'm your manager M'deer!  I like it when a man makes the woman the boss  Also, since we are such mature adults, I've changed my mind and give you permission to give me an atomic wedgie afterall hehe ~~~Seriously, sorry Tara, I know that you asked people like lil' ole me not to comment on Bush himself....dangit women don't listen afterall! "Poetry is not an opinion expressed... |
||
|
rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA |
hehehe That is true Melissa... but I forgive you. You have your own opinions..and even if I don't agree with all of them  it's nice to know what they are.To tell you the truth I didn't think I would get many answers anyway about alternatives *chuckles* I'm just glad I got a few  "in my field of paper flowers and candy clouds of lullaby i lie inside myself for hours and watch my purple sky fly over me" - Imaginary by Evanes [This message has been edited by rosepetals25 (03-26-2003 10:31 AM).] |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
