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What am I?
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What am I? |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
What am i to society? A 'teen'. I am the 'average' rebelious, untrustworthy, depressive teenager. Sometimes I wish that everyone would take of their stereotypical blindfolds and see our true meanings. What exactly is average anyway? That is nonexistant, the whole concept is imaginary, ideal, wht everyone "thinks" is right. If I wear a tie and baggy pants, does that make am a rebel? What if I like that look. If my hair is pink, does that mean I can't be educated and intellegent? If I get a nosering, does that gurantee I hate my parents? I just am saying that society is blinding everyone else to see what they think they do and belive what is truly a cover-up. WAKE UP PEOPLE! Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
This sux, I know, this is my first time ever expierementing w/ prose. Not exactly great. Be gentle, I am learning |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Moving this to the Alley, where it can receive the proper attention. Christopher |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Only shallow people don't judge people by their appearance. --Oscar Wilde |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I've been hearing a lot of Oscar Wilde quotes lately. Okay, I think that the reason people judge based on appearance is that there is a certain rebellious attitude associated with it. I used to do the whole rebellious look thing, with the pink hair and the torn nylons and y'know what went with it? A big middle finger to society. In my own personal experience, and my experience with others, it seems that radical clothing is often an attempt to see where one fits- what personality is best. I know that clothing style doesn't say all there is to say about a person, but resembling Avril Lavigne or Pink doesn't instantly tell people you are nothing like the celebrities you look like, or the group of teenagers that dress like that. I don't want to offend, but the radical look si probably something you'll grow out of with time. It's not a bad thing to experiment with different looks, but eventually, for me at least, the packaging became secondary as I did more thorough soul-searching. And it's not that I all-of-a-sudden became this compliant fit-in type... I just keep my middle finger safely in the pocket of my fitted jeans until I feel it's called for.  |
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fractal007 Senior Member
since 2000-06-01
Posts 1958 |
If anything, when I was a teen I found myself rebelling against teen culture, whatever that might be. I only wish I could have gone thru the teenage years with what I know now. I would have been very popular, I think, with my notion that being highly intelligent is a way of rebelling against society. Perhaps I could have gotten some more friends[at least among the rebellion-type teens] by telling them about how reading lots of books is actually a way of rebelling against the evil establishment. Okay, I know the notion that being booksmart is, in some instances, rebellion isn't new. But perhaps had I learned it earlier it would have been more beneficial to me in the teen years. "If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh" |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I can't judge you because I can't 'see' you. I judge you by your actions and your words. And you weren't even a teen until you told me you were. I know you were relating this to 'real' life. So many people are blinded by what they are 'looking at' that they don't actually see a person. Don't say everyone sees you in a certain way - that's a general statement. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I am confused. The first post did indeed sound like a complaint, but your follow up reply? Um...why was this moved from prose when the author indicated it was intended as prose? Chris? or Clouded Dreams? Could someone clarify for me? signed, DUH serene one |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I'll put it this way. If one wants to be successful in life, and by success I mean earning a comfortable living, one who portrays what you have described is going to have to abandon it. Try to go to a job interview with pink hair, baggy pants, nose rings, etc, while speaking slang English and just see if that person is hired, not. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
I am not saying that I am like that. I am a teen who looks at how everyone else is treated and I realize that unless you get to know someone, you can't assume things. Me, one day you'll find me wearing baggy pants, the next day I am wearing a skirt. I make friends with people from all walks of life, and I hear them complain about how people judge them. I have this 'thing' about defending other people, which is the reason I posted this. I actually wanted it to be one thing, but it turned out to be another. That is why it was moved from prose to here. Have a nice day Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I appreciate what you are saying. It deals directly with the old saying, "Never judge a book by its cover." I agree with that sentiment 100% But, if people do dress and talk a certain way, as you described, and if they want to be successful in life, there will have to come a time when they abandon those ways. At least at work or while trying to get a high paying job. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
i realize those few times are crucial, and I thank you for listening, Have a nice day! |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
You are much welcome. I believe listening is more important than speaking. You have the same  [This message has been edited by Opeth (12-23-2002 01:30 PM).] |
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Riley 
since 2002-07-18
Posts 1038in the pouring rain |
I am going to have a long reply I can tell you right now. I feel so strongly on the subject of protraying yourself and not some preppy, pretty girl/guy that spends 5 hours in the shower washing their hair to make it look perfect. I am not pretty, so this might be why I feel that way, but in my outlook, if you tell yourself you are pretty, and stand up tall and proud like you own everything, then people treat you with more respect. But, then again, you get everything that the human race stands for ( dignity and pride for being a human ) takin away by someone that is gorgeous. To me this is not fair. If we were just little bubbles floating in the sky then you know we wouldn't be able to judge people/bubbles because they all looked the same. But I enjoy looking different. I just don't enjoy being classified like a fish. I try my best to look pretty ( it doesn't work but o well ) and being a young young young teen, it is horrible. The peer pressure we suffer, ( I know its not that bad but still ) I just hate it. Can't stand it. Many of my friends know I don't care how I look. I could care less. You want to judge me go ahead, but you don't know me, so why should I care. Ok, well anyway, I wish people would pay attention to personalities instead of looks. It's annoying. Like pip, no one knows really what anyone looks like ( except for the pics ) and so we get to know each other by who we really are. It reflects through everything we write, and say. Which is awesome. Anyway, that is enough....I am just...ok Riley, enough. Have a Merry Christmas...!Riley Morning mist clings to my face, and my soul opens up to you...... |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
you guys are contradicting yourselves left right and centre. quote: the world doesn't really judge you based on what you wear. /jen/ 'i don't care if it hurts, i want to have control. i want a perfect body, i want a perfect soul.' [radiohead] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Who are 'you guys'? The 'world' does indeed judge you on what you wear. To do otherwise is not to look. You judge yourself by what you wear. Otherwise, why wear a nose ring? |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
Thanx, Riley, That was great! I don't try to look like something I'm not. I Dress the way I FEEL like I want to. I don't wear makeup, 'cause if I do, it is like wearing a mask (NO OFFENSE TO THOSE WHO DO WEAR MAKE-UP) I look at some people, and all I see is repitition. I believe that some ppl do dress the way they do is so they don't fall into the category "Just like everyone else" that is me. I love all your comments so far. It's great getting so many viewpoints! Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? [This message has been edited by CloudedDreams (12-23-2002 10:36 PM).] |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
but if you dye your hair pink and get a nose ring, you look just like all of the other teenagers who want to rebel. it's the same thing, just a different look. and no, for the most part, the real world doesn't judge you based on your taste of clothing. /jen. 'i don't care if it hurts, i want to have control. i want a perfect body, i want a perfect soul.' [radiohead] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
quote:Jen, no offense, but this tells me you have yet to get out into the "real world." |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I was waiting for it, and I got it. 'I feel so strongly on the subject of protraying yourself and not some preppy, pretty girl/guy that spends 5 hours in the shower washing their hair to make it look perfect.' I have no pity for someone who hates to be judged on the way they look, but turns around and judges someone else. It's okay to put someone down as shallow, because they're on the other side of the status quo? I understand that you never said "I'm putting preppy people DOWN," but believe me, the tone of disdain is there, even if you didn't intend it. Give me a break. That's why people think that teens with pink hair and noserings are going to live up to a certain stereotype- that why I was "waiting for it"- because do you know who many "alternative" looking kids I've met that haven't used the word "preppy" as an insult? Um, I can count two Avril Lavigne songs where she does- and she's the new Britney Spears of teenage alt-culture. Brad's right, there is a certain judgement that goes along with appearance. Jen, I couldn't disagree more. I worked in a bar for a couple of months, and do you know how many times I heard "Oh my GAWD! Her shoes SO do not match that dress!"? Different facets of the world choose not to judge individuals who fit in with their group. Pink-haired punks tend not to judge other pink-haired punks because there's always an assumption that there are going to be similar mindsets involved. The judgement is no longer necessary, because that person is deemed "safe" by categorization. Obviously, just as a person can overcome a negative first impression/perception, the "safe" person can become "unsafe." It's just how things, in my experience, work. [This message has been edited by hush (12-24-2002 01:42 AM).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
If you doubt it - go look at who gets the jobs. If you want to work at Hot Topix (which is fine, don't get me wrong), you can get away with having a face full of jewelry, tye-dyed hair, and ripped up orange clothes. But if you want to get a "higher position," you'll find that your personal appearance plays a rather large portion of how you are perceived. I know, I've done no little amount of hiring over the past several years. And it's not that I'm prejudiced against people who choose to look the way they want to - I have two earrings and a navel ring (go me, lol). What it comes down to is a matter of professional presentation. Just as there is a certain way that a memo should be typed up, there is a certain standard for how you present yourself in the business world. Would you take a judge seriously if he dressed in drag? How about a politician? Would you be able to put your trust in her if she had a face studded with jewelry and wore ragged clothes and army boots? I doubt it - I know I wouldn't. THe "real world" is ALL about appearance. When you meet someone, all you have to go by is what you see... and they will be judging you, just as will be judging them. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Karen - Prose is format, not category. Almost ever post you find in the Alley (Lounge, etc.) is technically considered Prose. I made a judgement call to move this here based on content, not format. The Prose forum is generally intended for stories, essays, and the like (though I have no issue if someone insists on a piece remaining there even if stands outside that). A piece where one is looking for input on a particular subject is better suited to be in one of the Discussion forums, or in Philosophy. |
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Riley
since 2002-07-18
Posts 1038in the pouring rain |
I don't dislike preppy people becasue of what they wear, its the way they act that makes me not want to be around them. I mean who wants to hang around with someone that talks about just how long it took them to do their hair or where they got their lastest set of nails done. Its a pointless cycle that I am pleased to not be a part of. I have a lot of people that don't like me for how I look, but you know what, I don't care. I mean I want to look nice, but I am not going to slave over the hair dryer trying to get my hair to flip out at a perfect 90 degree angle. Anyways, I just wanted to give something to this convo, because the real world is all about judging people by their appereance (sp. I may not like the way someone looks but I can still get to know them. If you don't like me for my personality, I have no problem with that, but if you hate me because I don't go to old navy and buy the same pair of jeans you can get at Sears but for under $20 then I am sorry for you. Well anyways, I have to be going now....ta! LOL Riley Morning mist clings to my face, and my soul opens up to you...... [This message has been edited by Riley (12-24-2002 02:09 PM).] |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
rebellion is a normal part of being a teenager. When you become a teen you want to assert your own thoughts and you own views. And usually it is by rebelling against much of what your parent’s have instilled in you growing up. You begin to carve out your own identity separate from the one that your parents have helped you mould. I carried a lot of anger from being bullied in my childhood right up to my late teens, I rebelled against the biggest authority figure in my life, the church. I listened certain styles of music and read certain books, trying to connect and validate my identity. Rebellion is a normal part of being a teen, it is a time of experimentation, to question all that your parents say and advised you against. Hair colour, style of music, all this is part of you but it doesn’t define your personality. Yes society will judge on first impressions, and it is not just with teenagers. watched from the wings as the scenes were replayed we saw ourselves now as we never have seen" ian curtis |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
I agee that some people are shallow about"Oh God these jeans are great...oh wait, I can;t buy them, their wal-mart clothes" I am not instantly categorizing them, I just no some people are like that, and I don't want to be Merry X-ams, by the way ^.^ Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
isn't it just as shallow (if not more) to call someone shallow for their own interests? why isn't it shallow for you to be interested in poetry instead of the label on the back of your jeans? |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
I am not saying that they are shallow 'cause of their interests I am saying they are shallow because they wanto to be perfect, which is humanly impossible, and further, they want everyone else to be perfect. (has anyone noticed the subject has changed around??? ^.^) |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
aren't you shallow for not wanting to be perfect? all i'm saying is that it seems people are trying to judge others by stereotyping them and placing assumptions not only on their motivations, but their beliefs as well. there is no possible way for you to look at a person and know that they believe everyone else should try to be perfect. perhaps you're falling victim to that own mindset by suggesting that they should expect less for themselves. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I agree with what Christopher said -- almost. The subject hasn't turned around at all, the only difference is that you made a claim about 'them' and many have tried to point out that you are doing the same thing as 'them'. Some say that people don't judge you by the way you look. I say they do. I say you judge others by the way they look. Regarding perfection, I don't understand what that means here. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Of course we judge a person based on what we see. What we judge, though, is different one to the next. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
How many of you are good at remembering names? When ever I face a new classroom, especially a large one, I really have to struggle to remember everyone's names. I try to repeat the name several times during the few minutes I allocate to introductions, try to associate it with something easier to remember, and still I struggle. I think its important enough to continue trying, but should that person take another class from me, say two or three months hence, there isn't a snowball's chance I'm going to remember their name. Anyone good at remembering faces? I have a slight (and somewhat strange) hearing impairment and apparently got into the habit as a kid of watching people's mouths when they talk. It's not quite reading lips, but it does better help me attach meaning to their words. Unfortunately, it makes me really bad at remembering faces. I can have a waitress take my order and two minutes later I have no idea who to flag down should I want to change it. In one eye and out the other. Do you remember the color of a stranger's skin or hair or eyes? Do you remember what they were wearing? What they carried? If you bumped into someone on the street, what would you remember? If you were eyewitness to a crime, what would you see? Surprisingly, there is one specific thing that virtually everyone remembers. The answer is only obvious, I think, when you hear it. We all seem to be very unequivocal about gender. You can forget everything else about a person ten seconds after you meet them, but you'll always remember whether they were male or female. It's the first thing we see and the last thing we forget. In this very simple thing, I think there's something very important revealed about the human condition. Do we judge others based on what we see? You bet your sweet petunias we do. On about a thousand different levels. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
I don't look at a person and assume these things. I have KNOWN people like this. they are everywhere. At school , at church, I mean, I don't judge by simply looking. I judge after I know them. But I am wrong anyway, because whose right is it for ME to judge, or any of you perhaps?? |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: Not only is this judgement of the way others look, it's a nice way to feel better about yourself because of the way you look. But what's interesting here is your use of 'know'. This is the second time in two days that someone has used that word as an emphasis, a way of asserting knowledge, but what is it really to say that one knows another except the ability to judge them, to predict what they are going to do next, and to decide whether they are worth your time or not. Judging isn't a right, it's a necessity, and there are good ways to do it and bad ways to do it. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
::Cries:: OK OK YOU WIN!! ::crawls into corner:: just leave me alone.... LOL thanx for the debate, but I am gracefully (I think) accepting defeat ::bows head:: HAve a nice day!! |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Ah, c'mon, I was just getting started. My real target is the individual/society myth. Can I go after that? Please, pretty please? |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
ok....but don't kill me in the process...lol |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
'I mean who wants to hang around with someone that talks about just how long it took them to do their hair or where they got their lastest set of nails done.' Do you know how many people I've heard go ON and ON and ON!!! about some stupid $60 skirt they just bought at Hot Topics, or a SWEET!!! new [insert popular rebellius band] t-shirt at The Shed (local outlet for 'kewl' counter-culture stuff) for 25 bucks? How many hair-bleach-and-sye-neon-color stories I've heard? Just because it's your style doesn't make it any less shallow- or manybe we could re-reverse roles, and say that just because their style is different yours, it isn't any more shallow. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
it's not the style, it's the way the people act. Whether their punk or preps, if all they care about is how 'cool' they look in that certain group and how much $$ they spent or places they got it at, that is shallow, even more when they look over ppl who say, shop at walmart and have no tatoos, or no makeup. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
WHat about the people who are proud to ahve purchased their wares at WlaMart or Salvation Army? "Look at the sweet punk stuff I found at this unlikely place..." or "Wearing secondhand vintage makes me cooler than you... I ahven't fallen to the corporate machine..." On and on... The point is that no one is impervious to the "shallow" condition you describe. Because, you know what? When I find an awesome three dollar skirt at a secondhand store, do you know what I do? Wear it to my best friend's house and say "Check it out! It only cost me three bucks!" Shallow's an easy name to toss out at someone, but it's hard to duck when it comes flying back. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
okay......well what if you would tell someone that you can't stand them because they have cheap clothes, or they son't like your brand? I've seen it happen..... Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Yeah, me too. "Oh my god, look at that stupid Aeropostle shirt. That's just another Abercrombie and Fitch. People who wear that crap are so stupid." You think it only goes one way? My point is that you can't stereotype without falling into a stereotypical category yourself. The best way (IMO) to handle these situations is on an individual basis- not everyone who wears expensive name brand clotes is critical of those who don't. Not everyone who shops at Hot Topic is critical of those who don't. We learn to expect a certain behavior based on what someone looks like, or a rudimentary first-impression of their behaviors. We also attribute causes to their behavior. Sometimes we attribute situational causes (I bet her family puts a lot of emphasis on appearances [or, depending on which group we're talking about here] I bet her family prides fitting in/standing out.) And sometimes, as we see in this thread, we attribute behaviors to personality (She's like that because she's shallow.) This fundamental attribution error puts us somewhere higher than the person we're judging- it's easy to make calls about someone that make them somehow less than we are. Instead of writing them off, why not try to understand where they are coming from? Explain where you are coming from to them? The favor might be returned. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Well said, Hush. Take myself for example, I am a navy veteran of over 21 years, I keep my hair within regulations, wear a uniform practically 5 days a week, yet I listen to music that is considered too radical even to the young sailors that I work with, and my faovoite show is The Simpsons of which I own a t-shirt depicting Ralph picking his nose, not to mention I have Ralph, The Comic Book Guy, Mr. Burns and Homer decals on the back of my car. I am not this way to impress or for that matter not to impress. I do not try to fit in or not fit in. I am just being myself. [This message has been edited by Opeth (12-28-2002 02:57 PM).] |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
I guess it is human nature at times to jump to conclusions. We all need to work on what we think when we see someone. We all can't assume things when we see them, but many of us do anyway. Maybe we should think ahead and really know the person before we say they are too 'preppy" or "punky" or "poor" When we do that, maybe the opinions other people have about us will change... Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
But remember, first impressions make a difference when one interviews for a quality job. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
i never said anything againstjob interviews. Yes, that is one important thing that we need to put aside our stubbornness and meet guidelines |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
'We all can't assume things when we see them, but many of us do anyway.' Do you assume the sky will be blue in the morning? Do you assume that gravity will hold you to the ground? Do you assume that your family will be in the house when you get up? We naturally chunk information to keep things from getting too confusing. Can you imagine what life would be like if you were surprised everytime you turned a faucet handle and water came out of it? With people, it's just that there's more options than on and off. It doesn't change the tendancy. The point is coming to terms with that, allowing yourself a certain leeway with stereotyping, and leaving room to accept that those stereotypes aren't always necessarily true. |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
::sobs:: OK!!! ok.... ::sniffs:; you can stop killing me now! lol This is somewhat fun... but Iknow I am not getting anywhere... |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Clouded one, just be yourself and treat others as you would have them treat you. Don't sweat how others behave. You can't change the hearts of others anyway, unless they want to change. have a great new years |
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CloudedDreams Member
since 2002-11-23
Posts 210My Fantasy Realm |
thanx.. you all have been great....I guess it's finally over... I am saving this for some reason.. maybe because this is the most I 've gotten out of a post. Lol. HAve a great new year! Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it? |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
You too. |
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