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two words for a new black market
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two words for a new black market |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738
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cigarette tax |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
That's the same answer for the two words - indian windfall. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"indian windfall" y'mean like..India? or Native American? I honestly don't know what you mean lovie. Explain? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
But the truth is that it is proved to result in less smoking and thereby saving lives. And saving lives are much stronger two words. "Every 10 percent increase in the price of cigarettes reduces youth smoking by about seven percent and overall cigarette consumption by about four percent." (http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/reports/prices/) |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I don't trust polls. I'd tell you what I do trust, but I'd cut my own connection.  I still maintain that you can't legislate morality, or even general good health. My father died of complications from treatment of lung cancer, insisting he must ween himself from the oxygen. He succeeded. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
If you lived down here, serenity gal, you would know exactly what I mean. The Indians sell tax-free cigarettes here at a much cheaper price than regular stores can. That's how they initially financed their casinos. cigarette taxes go up...the Indians get richer...simple as that. I give it 6 months before the state agencies start screaming, like they did in New York, that they are in financial ruin due to smokers giving it up causing less tax revenue coming in to fund them....it will happen. |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
"But the truth is that it is proved to result in less smoking and thereby saving lives. And saving lives are much stronger two words. "Every 10 percent increase in the price of cigarettes reduces youth smoking by about seven percent and overall cigarette consumption by about four percent." (http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/reports/prices/)" It's the truth because someone said it? Meh..(meh is in the dictionary now) Makes sense, because, you know, those "youths" are actually buying/not buying the cigarettes and letting people know they are/are not. Therefore, those numbers couldn't be skewed (for the proper results) at all. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I never said you needed to believe it. But you haven't offered any proof of why not to believe it. Disagreement and an attitude against it aren't proof that it is wrong and not based on persuasive evidence. Anyway, if you don't want to worry about the price of breathunfresheners at all there is even a better solution: don't smoke.  |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
do you think they'll someday overtax food dyes and growth hormones aerosols pesticides homemade chicken and dumplings and bacon, too?? could any of the things I mentioned present any second-hand issues??? dunno. but a poll would present a YES |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
I never said it was wrong. Therefore, I don't have to prove it is. The burden is on whomever, said it was a "fact," right? I am merely saying that simply saying it doesn't make it so. Prove it to me. Or not. *shrug* "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Susan, There are research pages here: http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/ |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
That is impressive, however, I have to consider the source as well... You want to know what I think the number one cause of children smoking is? Parents that smoke. Yes, I went there. And I am not trying to assign blame, just stating what I see or think I see. Maybe there is some other correlation I have overlooked. Children seem to emulate their parents. And, I can go the other way as well. I have a masters degree. None of my children finished high school.  But all of them sure enough picked up my bad smoking habit. again, *shrug* who knows for sure? What I have a hard time swallowing is that because the prices of cigarettes have gone up less children are smoking. They weren't buying them in the first place if they were under 18 (or shouldn't be). And if they are over 18, they aren't children. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Hey, Susan! Knock off the logic already!!!  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Susan Whether you buy cigarrettes directly from the store or from a secondary source, you still pay for cigarrettes. Underagers that are less likely to have a job and the money to be able to afford them therefore are less likely to buy them or buy them very often. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I pretty much agree with everybody, and I wish I didn't wanna smoke. But Susan's right---I've been hanging over ashtrays since I was a toddler. Love the stuff. and sighs to Regina--yanno? I've been celibate for for nearly as long as I've been married. (That's a big HINT to you single folk on how to ruin your sex life, too, btw.) I have gastrointestinal problems which dictated that I give up all hard liquor. (So Karen said goodbye to all the boys!) Then they took my percocette and told me to "cope". I am full force menopause, with a beautiful but angry seventeen year old daughter and a 19 year old son, and not a drop of estrogen in me, and a dingo with nipple rings ate mah baby and now--right NOW---YA'LL WANT ME TO QUIT SMOKING TOO?  mutter murmer spit and growl WHAT ARE YA, CRAZY? I SHOULD BE MEDICATED FOR GAWD'S SAKE. I SHOULD BE MEDICATED FOR EVERYBODY'S SAKE!!! <--and that's me in a goooood mood. |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
"Under agers that are less likely to have a job and the money to be able to afford them therefore are less likely to buy them or buy them very often." Then how in the world are they able to say that because the prices went up they are smoking less??? Okay, maybe that is obscure....but if they are less likely to have a job because they are under agers, then that was true BEFORE the prices went up, right? Sort of anyway...I contend under agers weren't buying them but rather getting them from others...so how the heck can we accurately account for what they are or aren't smoking??? I fully understand that my logic, at times, may be hard to follow... anyway... I am with Karen...I am not giving up my smokes just yet. (not that anyone asked me to) I will look for a cheaper brand, not because I can't afford the new prices, but rather because I just don't think I should have to...others like to drink, I don't see them getting outrageously taxed for their drink. I would rather drive with someone that is smoking then someone that is drinking..again, obscure.... meh...and now I am on a tangent and hate when I do that... Where is my happy place?  "too bad ignorance isn't painful" ~Unknown~ |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
You crack me up Karen! And if anyone is interested, you may be able to find a tobacco store in your area that sells 1 lb. bag roll-your-own tobacco. Each bag makes about 2 1/2 to 3 cartons. It used to sell here for $12.99 per bag. As of 4/1 there was a $25 per bag federal tax placed on each bag bringing the price up to $38 per bag, almost tripling the price, but it is about half the cost of buying commercially made cigarettes. You buy the paper tubes (filter already attached) by the box, 200 to the box for $1.59. And the machine, around $28.00 (which you will need to replace in about a year). So you can save some serious money. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
grin...I know you'll find this hard to believe, Denise, but I don't know how to roll. Not even with a machine. (Um, I met my husband when I was sixteen and never had to roll again.) *ahem* I can't afford that other stuff either!  |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
 That's the beauty of this Karen, you don't have to roll anything, not like the old Laredo kits that were out decades ago. You just fit the paper tube onto the machine nozzle, sprinkle tobacco into the tray and pull the lever. It couldn't be easier. So for a little time and $38.00 for the tobacco and 2 to 3 boxes of the paper tubes (they just went up to 1.99 per box) you could get 2 1/2 to 3 cartons of cigarettes. So that works out to be a bigger savings than I originally estimated. The tobacco also comes in regular, menthol, regular lite and menthol lite. The papers also come in regular and lite. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Yes, we've all got to go, and none of those ways have been called pleasant. But COPD, virtually unavoidable with long-term smokers, is an especially horrible way to go, like slowly drowning this side of the water. For many (though not for all) descriptions of the lurid details usually aren't persuasive, until its too late. I probably wouldn't even mention it, except that I'm an RN in intensive care, and see it abundantly. But here's a puzzle for you ... Why do such a high percentage of Respiratory Therapists smoke (more than nurses, and much more than doctors)? I know this is anecdotal, but if anyone did the numbers I would wager on it being true. It's a bit of a spectacle to me, kind of like firefighters committing arson on their lunch break ... I just don't get it. Surely its not a subliminally convoluted attempt at empathy for patients? Stephen |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
I was behind a lady at a convenient store the other day who was buying 2 cartons of Malboro cigarettes that added up to over $100. I stopped years ago at 50 cents a pack. I thought that was too much 30 years ago. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
It's equally confusing to the smokers too, Stephen. The only way I can describe it is that it seems to be some sort of a 'disconnect' between the action and any one of a number of possible outcomes. Sort of like "it probably won't happen to me", even though you are pretty certain that something bad will eventually happen. I guess it may have something to do with the addictive nature of nicotine. And I guess it also doesn't help in older smokers who have 30-40 years of smoking history, and failed attempts at quitting, to continue to go through the stress and anxiety of attempting yet again to quit when you know that it probably won't prevent a health castrophe after such a long time of smoking. Like the damage is already done and nothing at this point is going to change that. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
It's a fiercely powerful addiction. sighing smoke guiltily here And Stephan, yanno? My last surgery I did manage to smoke six packs of cigarettes during a four day stay. And yep, I was sitting right next to a respiratory therapist who was matching me stogie for stogie... and I am just checking in to wave and say howdy to everybody. To quote Joe Pesci, "Da whole town got da flu." oy..so now I'm tamping down a respiratory virus with a nicotine. Not very smart, I know. "Everybody's got somethin' to hide except for me and my monkey..." (er...monkies?)  Be well, everyone, and good luck to those trying to quit, too.Love you guys.  |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Oddly enough, hypnosis works fairly well for smoking cessation. It doesn't work so well for some other things, but there's research on smoking, and it stands up pretty well. If you can find somebody who's gotten some decent NLP training, they may be able to do it for you in one or two sessions, and do it pretty much painlessly, ridiculous as that will sound to you now. There's a bit of an internal juggling act that needs to be done, but it's quite doable, and if done well, it's very possible that you might walk about of the session not even missing it. That would depend on the deal you needed to arrange with your smoking itself and the sort of work you ended up doing with it with your person. All of you would have to feel well taken care of, especially you and your smoking, and the need that the smoking was filling for you. I could go on, but it's really a very witchy thing in its way, trying to be respectful of powers and acknowledging them and stuff like that, so it's not very far, I think, I think, from the way you like to think. Anyway, just A Suggestion, Bob Kaven |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I've been considering that, Bob. I should be a fairly easy subject too, since I feel like I've had my brain erased too. I'm thinking that maybe I should consider this time as an opportunity, instead of just grousing all the time. Now if ya'll will excuse me, I literally have a ton of dirt that was dropped on lawn this past Thursday, and the guy who was supposed to spread it around for me, just disappeared again. (No work on Good Friday.) But he had an emergency. One of his workers drove a "bobcat" thingie in a canal. Um, so I told him, sure, go rescue the guy, but don't bring him back here. My house has already been subjected to an automobile accident. I wish I were kidding. And yes, it's embarrassing to have five mounds of dirt on your front lawn. I just told the neighbors I finally swept the house out. *shrug* Perspective...yah...   |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Stephen quote: I doubt they smoke more. You probably just notice it more among them because of the irony of it and because it seems like they should be the ones that don't smoke or smoke far less. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Actually, I think Stephan has a good point. My father-in-law was Captain of the N.O.F.D. He confided that fireman are generally firebugs who just found a positive outlet for the inclination. But yeah, I'm thinking about trying to quit. smoking, I mean. heh  And Essorant, I do concede the point that I smoke less now, because the higher prices make me more conscious of the habit. And yes, the fact that I prioritize money over my health gives me pause. Or perhaps even paws.Time will tell.  <--I never thought I'd be able to grow a goatee either. |
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