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Auto Bailout
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Auto Bailout |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan 
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. No . . . . |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Oh |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I don't think society should bailout any company. Mistakes have to have consequences. However. I also feel people who believe as I do have to be consistent in the application of those beliefs. It's a little hard to denounce bailing out companies when society insists on bailing out employees. In what way is a company bailout different from paying someone unemployment benefits? Not saving enough money to live on in a crunch is exactly what we are condemning the companies for doing, isn't it? Mistakes have to have consequences. And it can't just be everyone else's mistakes. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "Mistakes have to have consequences." Not so much mistakes as willful and profitable neglect. Why should the money, in tax dollars, go from someone making less with less benefits to subsidize comfortable failure? . |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
quote: Ron, you are correct, in a sense. But sometimes it is not that simple. Greedy corporate people have many game plans to go by. They also have legal resources to help them hide money as well as to concentrate on how to skid by the rules; but those who work for them are not always as fortunate. While we can say, "think well" when planning families and such, we cannot dictate that any family will not come up into any certain and particular instances like children with problems; suddenly the family is in a situation where a "healthy heartbeat" does not necessarily mean a healthy child. While I understand your premise of saving money for a rainy day theory to be correct, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. One day you're working for a company that takes care of your insurance; the next day your wife says she's three months pregnant; you feel safe...you've got three months worth of savings to live on, you plan to build it up, in case things go wrong. The next day, your company says the corporate heads have to do an RIF....and no, there will be little to no keeping one's job, nor benefits. It's out there, Ron. It's out there, and it's in to play. But bail out the auto industry? Nope. Ain't going to go there, because they've known all along they were skimming off the cream, and some of their workers were idiotic in listening to their union idealists. So I'm not going to say that they weren't warned, not just recently, but a long time ago, when you and I saw the first of the gas wars going on. That's when they should have found other work, rather than working for and with a union. Their time has come and gone. I don't know that it will return. But I doubt it. However, Ron, while I don't believe in government bailouts, I will continue to hope that the state of our union doesn't hit rock bottom level before it learns that no one is worthy of so many dollars that they cannot afford to live like "others". Think about it. My trip to Hawaii made me a believer in living in a part of our country where paparazzi are not allowed.  |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
For a second I saw a dash-- "auto-bailout".  |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Ron, as a former employer, you should remember that unemployment is a different animal. You paid an insurance premium for every employee you had for the event when you might terminate that employee's job. That's where the money for the unemployment payments comes from. If the auto industry had simply bought proper insurance against poor management tactics, and I include capitulating to unrealistic union demands, then they would have insurance to get them through these tough times. Well, I guess that idealistic scheme does depend on the unrealistic premise that some insurance was dumb enough to underwrite them. Of course, that could have been AIG and then the taxpayers would still be the big losers. Anyway, you're right there should be consequences. I do believe that any bailout money is surely wasted. Auto management will continue their ways and the end result will be a bailout of the UAW, not the industry. The eventual bottom line will still be the same bankruptcy ut after wasting another $50B, this time of the taxpayer's money. Makes no sense to me. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: I wouldn't characterize it that way, but it wouldn't matter; willful neglect (profitable or otherwise) is still a mistake. Then again, so is trying to play armchair quarterback, I suspect. quote: Income should be irrelevant. Unless you want to argue that no one should ever help anyone with more of anything? Why should our money (in whatever form) go to someone else so they don't have to be responsible for the mistakes they've made? You want to apply that to GM, but consistency requires we apply it to individuals, too. Paying somebody because they lost their job is little different than paying a company because they lost too many sales. While we're at, Social Security probably falls under much the same umbrella. Once you start voting in bread and circuses, it's remarkably difficult to turn off the spigot.  quote: I don't think fortune smiles more on the corporation than on the individual, Karilea. Nor do I think people are any less greedy or any less likely to skid by the rules than companies are. Human nature is pretty darn universal, I think. quote: You bet there are, Kari. Ask GM. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: It's only a different animal, Pete, insofar as it's a hidden tax instead of a direct tax. Any time an expense is legislated into existence and business is subsequently forced to pass on that expense as higher prices, it becomes a hidden tax. That's true of unemployment insurance, and to a large extent (fifty percent to be precise) it's true of social security. And you probably don't want to get me started on insurance. It is the greatest evil ever to be foisted upon society. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
I like Pat Boone's plan better than the current plans in Washington! http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=84056 |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Right, Denise. The answer to bread and circuses is BIGGER bread and circuses? Let's just let the consumers buy all the businesses currently going broke. You know, for no money down? |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Sure, why not?! It makes more sense than anything coming out of Washington! If they insist on printing and spending money, send it to us!!!!  |
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