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Why Do So Many Liberals HATE Israel?
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Why Do So Many Liberals HATE Israel? |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy 
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One thing I've consistently noted about the Daily Kos, Huffington Post, et all, is the proliferance of anti-Israel posts. They are very anti-semitic in nature. It truly is amazing how many problems are attributed to Israel by the farrrrrr Left. These same people blamed Israel for 9-11, at least indirectly. Let's define the terms here: I am not saying Democrats hate Israel. I am saying the Far Left does, with a pink purple passion. Personally, I don't understand why the world hates these folks so much. I think they've stood up admirably after WWII to incredible long odds of survival. I've asked my best friend and his family, who are Jewish, why they are so hated, and they had several reasons, but not a consensus. These blog sites have zero tolerance for Israeli's, it's pure hatred and for the party of 'tolerance' I have to say it's pretty astonishing that the far left demonizes Israel. (they also demonize any devote Christian, but THAT is a different subject- please don't respond to why some people hate Christians.) The United States is very concerned about the nuclear capability of Iran. They are no direct threat to the U.S. until they develope ICBM's. So obviously, Israel is the focal point for the US's distress about Iran. The reason I posed this question is that I think Israel will be the central focal point in the Middle East very shortly. Best to get our ducks in a row now, don't you think? |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
OMG, are you really sure you want to open this can of worms, threadbear? All I'm going to say is maybe Iran is as concerned about Israel already having nukes as we are about Iran getting them. I am too, since should Israel push the button, the whole world's going to suffer. Good luck with your thread, it's going to be an interesting one! |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy |
Thanks for your input: I had an incident recently where an elderly Jewish man had to defend himself against some anti-semites, young folks espouting the type of hate rhetoric that I so often read about on KOS. I was enraged! They held him responsible for every action Israel has undertaken in the past 50 years. Has there EVER been so hated a group of people in the World's History? I just don't get it. My friend used to wear his Star of David around his neck, but no longer does because of the nasty comments he gets when it shows. The ironic nature is that traditionally, American Jewish folks vote 75-80% Democratic. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html Surely it must be disparaging to see their own political party turn on them at times. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
There are all sorts of ignorant and bigoted people in the world, tb. Some hate those of a different class, race, religion, sexual orientation or even those of a different political party. Since both major parties strongly support Israel's right to exist and defend itself, I think your statement implying that many Democrats (and Liberals) have turned against or hate Israel is a bit OTT and unsupported by concrete evidence. Perhaps you could show us something a little more concrete to support your claim other than the name of a couple of blogs? |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
I don't know Bear, you must have dug really deep to find the anti-semitism and anti-Israel threads in the Daily KOS. I couldn't find a single topic along those lines, while your post claims they are there in proliferation. So maybe you found something, who knows. What constitutes the proliferation, the rapid and often excessive spread or increase of these remarks in your mind, when I can't find any? Similarly, I couldn't find a single Israel hating post among the articles and blogs on the very looong front page of the Huffington Post The premise is historically silly. The "Farrr left," contained historically at least as many influential members of Jewish heritage as it did influential members of any other heritage, and what? -- their philosophical decendents, all six or so who haven't figured out that socialist extremism doesn't work -- now hate Israel? Balladeer is very good are responding to this type of inquiry. He has been known to posts lists of literally hundreds of links to justify some of his views. I'd settle for half a dozen links out of the many thousands of posts on KOS that go directly to your contention, and some information on the poster's "farrr left" credentials and credibility. I'm willing to become better informed, but I'm not willing to swallow hogwash whole hog. Respectfully, Jimbeaux |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Well, I didn't have to dig far at all for a gentleman who agrees with Threadbear with respect to the Daily Kos.. Perhaps sensing that this issue could highlight just how far removed the Kos community is from the American mainstream, Moulitsas and his other front-page bloggers have opted to ignore Israel’s war. Combined, the half dozen front-pagers have written exactly one post on the subject. And that post, authored by Moulitsas, simply declared that he wouldn’t write anything further on the subject. So while the most important story of the year develops, the nation’s leading progressive blog has chosen to focus on the Indiana second district House race between Chris Chocola and Joe Donnelly. Nothing wrong with that; it’s their prerogative to blog about whatever they like. But inside the Kos diaries, it’s been a different story. The conversation in the diaries has been overwhelmingly anti-Israel–and potentially disastrous for the Democratic party. http://www.bookwormroom.com/2006/07/25/the-left-wing-blogs-and-israel/ ...and while we're at it o yes, Israel is the linchpin issue. Everyone agrees that Nazism and the Third Reich were bad, very bad. The fact is there was a conspiracy between Nazism and Islam (ongoing documentation and research by Dr Andrew Bostom here) So how can the Nazism be bad and Islamism be good? Rudy gets it and this is why I support his candidacy. But the more we learn about Obama, the more troubling his candidacy becomes (although Hillary is just as bad, if not worse). Obama's support of Odinga in the Kenyan bloodbaths, by far, is the darkest indication that Obama sides with Islamists and their handmaidens. Caroline Glick agrees. In her last column; Kibaki is close ally of the US in the war against Islamic terror. In stark contrast, Odinga is an ally of Islamic extremists. On August 29 Odinga wrote a letter to Kenya's pro-jihadist National Muslim Leaders Forum. There he pledged that if elected he would establish Sharia courts throughout the country; enact Islamic dress codes for women; ban alcohol and pork; indoctrinate schoolchildren in the tenets of Islam; ban Christian missionary activities, and dismiss the police commissioner, "Who has allowed himself to be used by heathens and Zionists." Although Odinga is an Anglican, he referred to Islam as the "one true religion" and scorned Christians as "worshipers of the cross." Obama strongly supports Odinga who claims to be his cousin. As Daniel Johnson reported recently in the New York Sun, during his 2006 visit to Kenya, Obama was so outspoken in his support for Odinga that the Kenyan government complained to the State Department that Obama was interfering with the internal politics of the country. After the Dec. 27 elections Obama interrupted a campaign appearance in New Hampshire to take a call from Odinga. http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/01/obama-the-anti.html |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
last ones.... Anti-Israel chic consumes S.F.'s once-friendly left wing EARL RAAB A half-century ago, the Jews of San Francisco felt much more secure from the slings of anti-Semitism than Jews elsewhere in the country, according to a Commentary article of mine at the time. The conditions leading to that sense of security are even more pronounced today: the virtual absence of discrimination in employment, housing, civic or political life. Just check the number of Jews elected to public office -- including the U.S. Senate -- without causing eyebrows to rise. But despite the absence of those marks of hostility, there is today a palpable sense of uneasiness among Jews in this area that was not present 50 years ago -- or even 10 years ago. The reason for this new uneasiness is, if course, the heightened drumming of anti-Israelism. Most disturbing, this is happening within a portion of the same liberal circles that were actively at our side in the fight against anti-Semitism and other bigotry. Liberal college professors and leaders of churches, labor unions, ethnic and racial groups, civic life were all prominent in the anti-Nazi rallies we held during the period in which a remnant band of the Nazi Bund was roaming the streets of San Francisco. They were at our side in all activities against anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism was anathema to them -- and they all say that it still is. But among them, a significant sector has taken up an "anti-Israel chic" that singles out that nation for the most absurd and double-standard charges: Israel is the imperialist power oppressing the indigenous Palestinians; it is Israel that blocks peace; the suicide bombers are regrettable but understandable and "martyrs," while the Israelis defending against such action are "murderers." http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/s tory_id/19434/edition_id/394/format/html/displaystory.html In fact, anti-Israel bias at colleges and universities has become so pervasive as to make the views of "The Lobby" authors seem fairly close to the mainstream in the realm of Middle East studies. While Pat Buchanan of the troglodyte Right once falsely referred to Congress as "Israeli-occupied territory," it is the American university that has become more and more a place where pro-Israel students and teachers often feel unable to speak their minds publicly. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid =1143498792678 There is a great ideological divide in America between conservatives and liberals over Israel. Despite this, 90% of American Jews support the liberal camp, which is generally hostile to Israel. So Democratic candidates typically play a game of mouthing pro-Israel bromides while undermining Israel in practice. (For a recent example, see Nancy Pelosi's Arab dictator tour, which was hailed by jihadists). Another ploy is to show their real stripes only after retiring, like Jimmy Carter: Carter Urges Iowa Voters Not to Back "Knee-Jerk Supporters" of Israel As long as American politicians are seen as "knee-jerk supporters" of Israel, the country's role as the principal Mideast peace broker will be endangered, former President Jimmy Carter told a crowd Wednesday at the University of Iowa. Carter told the crowd of 6,000 that he chose Iowa out of the 100 university lecture invitations he received because of the power of Iowa caucus voters to select candidates. "The main reason I came to Iowa is to make sure you knew you could shape an outcome in the 2008 presidential election. At least you can screen out candidates," he said. "Make them pledge to you...that they will take a balanced position between Israel and Palestinians." Another example of a Democrat who only felt comfortable to show his true radical beliefs after leaving office was Lyndon Johnson's Attorney General, Ramsey Clark. http://www.iris.org.il/blog/categories/14-Anti-Israel-Democrats Some random photos found on Flickr from a protest in 2006 - recognize the woman at the top? Elizabeth May, leader of the Green Party. This is from the notorious anti-Israel/pro-Hezbollah rally in Toronto during the Lebanon War. Scroll below to see why that rally was notorious. Clearly, the ultra-far-left-wing extremist, Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, has a frightening hidden agenda. Unworthy of any votes. Except from hateful extremists, the likes of Hezbollah supporters... Oh, and this reminds me of the Liberals... they've marched with Hezbollah supporters as well... indicating that they, too, have a dangerous hidden agenda... Heil Dion! http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com/2008/09/lizzy-may-caught-at-anti-israel-rall y.html The Incredible Anti-Israel Bias of the L.A. Times Filed under: Dog Trainer, War — Patterico @ 6:05 am A week ago today, I was in the office of my friend alert reader hank k., who was ranting about the L.A. Times’s coverage of the Israel-Hezbollah conflict. He still brings his paper to work every weekday, and showed me the front pages from the last week or so, which were just sitting around his office. I don’t subscribe anymore, so I’d missed these. I started leafing through the front pages, and was aghast at what I saw: page after page after page of Lebanese suffering, with scarcely a hint of any suffering by Israeli civilians http://www.patterico.com/2006/07/31/the-incredible-anti-israel-bias-of-the-la-times/ |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy |
Bang This took me all of 20 minutes. Just for instance: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/crooks/100112748 http://www.haloscan.com/comments/crooks/100112233 http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/21/12160/0406 Apartheid Israel Trying to Start World War 3 + comments under it http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/6/165823/9555 Why progressives don't like Israel w/Poll + comments • The cost of anti-Israel ***holes on DKos. This blog is in serious danger of being hijacked by people with absolutely no interest in its mission of electing Democrats, but who are merely using its large readership to promote their particular obsession. Markos, if you don't step in and ban diaries of this sort, you risk losing control of your own creation. by Finck II on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:41:01 AM PDT Yeah... (28+ / 0-)Because we couldn't have free-speech here. Yes, there are anti-semitic diaries out there. This is a well-reasoned policy diary by an established Kos diarist, albeit one whose views you don't share. Get over it.by brianinca on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 09:43:24 AM PDT o Hiderated (12+ / 0-) For the personal attack.I don't see how this diary is any more "anti-Israel" than a diary criticizing American foreign policy is "anti-American". http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/29/113033/853/431/543682[/URL] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/israel-iran-and-the-new-n_n_117830.html Israel, Iran And The New Neocons ----------------------------------------- The anti-semitism, or hate-Israel speech usually comes from within the comments, and not usually the topic itself. Be aware that the Huffington/KOS polices these blogs and deletes many of the offending posts days or weeks later. The medium sized blogs don't police them at all. These are just some of them that can be found using the simple word search: 'Israel' within the 3 largest liberal websites: Huffington Post, Daily KOS and Crooks & Liars. And these are the ones they LEFT in!! |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Threadbear, It might be useful if you could rephrase your thesis. As phrased, you are begging the question, which is a logical fallacy; this means the assumptions of the question fails before logical examination. The question makes no sense. It is ill-formed in logic. How is the question different than, for example, "Why do so many neoconservatives HATE Israel?" Or "Why are so many neoconservatives absolutely uncritical of any actions taken by Israel? and how far below the surface is their underlying anti-semitism? This questions are also absurd, and also beg the question. Yet, having said too much already, I have more to say. A" Jew" is somebody who is Jewish by religion. "Arab" is an ethnic designation. There are Christian Arabs, there are Muslim Arabs and even Jewish Arabs. If I remember my anthropology correctly, both Jews and Arabs started out as part of the same anthropological grouping. I would say "race," but the word has fallen into professional disrepute. Both Arabs and Jews were "Semites." Now of course, there are Jews along the East coast of Africa, in China, and in all sorts of other places. And Arabs are still semites. It's quite possibly because of the touchiness of Western culture about Jews that the term anti-semite has been reserved for Jews. I was born a Jew. While that's not my religious practice these days, I would never deny it. I am also a liberal, even in an age where that honorable word has been assaulted by people who don't even understand it's meaning or its history. My personal religious practice is meditative and private. Israel is a country. It was founded in 1948 as a Jewish Homeland. Of the 300,000 visas that should by law have been available for Jews fleeing the nazis during and just before WWII, I'm told, only a very few were actually issued. As many as 250,000 Jews may have died as a result of that U.S. government policy. I will have to hunt around to look for that reference, because I only ran across it a few months ago and I remember being shocked blue by it. Most of the rest of the world acted similarly, if I have my facts straight, with some incredible exceptions, like Raoul Wallenbourg, who died in a soviet forced labor camp. There is real anti-semitism in the world, still, and we must not be afraid to see it and call it by its name. Criticism by the American left of the Israeli government and its policies, however, does not in itself constitute anti-semitism, and a little bit of thinking about this issue should clarify the issue for you. Israel is not a monolithic country. It is a democracy. As a democracy, it has a wide range of political opinion actively presented in its Knesset or parliament. The party that has been in power and done the majority of the governing over the last sixty years has done so by putting together an unstable alliance of right wing voices. The policies that have run Israel have been over that period of time very right wing policies. A good half the country disagrees with those policies, but can't muster enough votes in the Knesset to gain power. To say that the policies pursued by Israel over the last 60 years have not always been wise and have often been racist is not anti-semitic. It is anti-Lekud, whose name I may have spelled incorrectly here. It is possibly anti-zionist. To suggest that the Palestinians have some valid points when they discuss issues with Israelis is also not anti-semitic. Not only, to be pedantic, are both groups semites, but more to the point there's been more than enough fault and idiocy between the two parties for a more than generous distribution on either side. Everybody's at fault, and the problems won't be going anywhere until everybody is willing to give generously in terms of their pride. You can find and quote genuine bigots on both sides. Speaking as both a Jew and a Liberal, I hate that nobody seems willing to take responsibility for the failed policies on the part of Israel AND that the same goes with the Palestinians. I hate that the left has been so suppressed in Israel that it doesn't have much of a say in what's going on. And I hate the expansionist policies that have gotten Israel into increasing amounts of economic and social trouble. When I hate these things in this country, it's because of my politics; why then do you have the gall to assume that I'm an anti-semite when I express the same reaction when I see Israel doing the same things? I object to China doing them. I object to Russia doing them. Why wouldn't you assume the same of other liberals? I'm not in favor of the terror campaigns against Israel by the Palestinians or by other groups. I'm against any sort of terror stuff. I'm also against what the Israelis do to the Palestinians by fencing them up into the Gaza Strip, and by going back on their word to keep settlers off the West bank. Both sides are provocative here. Would that mean that you're a racist when you complain about what the Palestinians do? I'd sure hope not. This would be a good time for me to stop. Please watch who you're calling an anti-semite. Some of us like to make up our own darn minds. Sincerely, Bob Kaven |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6975 I got bored before finishing yet I think there's much in it that will answer the original question. I think there are many in the West who see the existence of Israel as the source of the problem it has with Islam. You get, or allow others to get, rid of the source and you get rid of the problem. . . . and we all enjoy our August vacations. . |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Bear: Re your “proliferance” of examples, all six of them: Example One: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/crooks/100112748 The poster, justaguy, is hardly a farrr left wing poster, just a right wing crank who runs a totally anti-Israel site rattling cages on a left wing site. As you read down the comments you will notice this remark made several times by the haloscan site owner: [This thread is veering off topic rapidly, heading towards a flame war. Knock it off, consult the commenting policy and restrict your comments to the topic] This is his standard note used when deleting the most objectionable comments, all of which in in this thread come from justaguy. Hardly a ringing endorsement from the farrr left. Example Two:http://www.haloscan.com/comments/crooks/100112233 More ranting from justguy in a different thread. Example Three: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/21/12160/0406 Did you miss this comment a little further down? “I thought you might want to know that the bigot who wrote this filth has now been banned. You might want to consider removing that rec from this troll diary.” Hardly a ringing endorsement from the left. Example 4: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/6/165823/9555 A portion of and editorial from those outrageous lefties at the Wall Street Journal: For reasons both telling and mysterious, Israel has become unpopular among that segment of public opinion that calls itself progressive. This is the same progressive segment that believes in women's rights, gay rights, the rights to a fair trial and to appeal, freedom of speech and conscience, judicial checks on parliamentary authority. These are rights that exist in Israel and nowhere else in the Middle East. So why is it that the country that is most sympathetic to progressive values gets the least of progressive sympathies? As the comments beneath the article point out, the rights mentioned in the editorial do NOT exist in Israel in the way they do in the US. The responses represent “the other side of the coin” left wingers never ever present. The poll beneath it: Israel is unpopular among progressives for reasons that are: 1 telling 94 votes 2 mysterious 13 votes 3 both 28 votes 4 Israel isn't unpopular amongst progressives, you idiot, just some dumbass policies are 180 votes Example 5: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/6/165823/9555, This article has nothing to do at all with leftist hatred of Israel. It presents, in a reasoned manner, why US foreign policy in the Middle East should, in the poster’s view, be re-examined. It provoked a lot of knee jerk reaction against anyone having the temerity to suggest Israel might not be perfect as a state but there just wasn’t ant HATRED expressed in the original post. Example 6 :http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/israel-iran-and-the-new-n_n_117830.html. Ariana Huffington? Gotta grant you there’s some pretty nasty anti-Israel stuff there. She claims to be a progressive. She used to be a conservative. She was definitely funny when writing for Comedy Central. She wrote a book on spirituality, plagiarized one on Maria Callas, and publishes Richard Dawkins. I don’t what to make of any of that. So, the proliferation of far left haters of Israel come down to one right wing extremist, a bigot who got kicked off his site, the famously progressive Wall Street Journal, and Ariana Huffington. Not really much support for the contentions in the post. Jimbeaux |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy |
Thank you, Bob, for your well-thought out comments. You asked, essentially, why didn’t I apply the standard of Hate-Israel to conservatives? Simply because, as a blogger, I don’t see conservatives bashing Israel with either a) the frequency or b) the zeal ...that the Far Left does. If anything, I see the opposite. Yes, this is a generalization, and yes, exceptions are to be found that rock the vote. The point of the post is show the blatant hypocrisy employed by Far Left Blogs in their non-support of Israel. Why hypocrisy you ask? Because 85% of Jewish Americans vote Dem. Because any form of perceived anti-Semitism is usually not tolerated by Liberals, and is usually loudly condemned. One might even say that Liberals often pull the anti-Semite or race card in error in an effort to defend a pretty weak position stance at times. From 1976 to 1981 I was a man without religion. I searched out all religions, when to their services, devoured all I could on the various religions, and prayed to a then-unknown God for help in finding what was the true answer. Raised Catholic, I had problems with them....we’ll leave it at that. I contemplated for about 3 years about becoming a Reformed Jew (not Orthodox). It was impressed on me, by rabbis, that being a Jew is both a religion AND a lifestyle; that a person cannot be one without the other. As a matter of being ‘Confirmed’ I would be quizzed on the believability of my conversion. So, if my blurring the distinction of ‘religion’ and the term ‘Israel’, it is based on this training I had in order to convert. And Gosh, yes, Bob: the horror stories about the anti-semite behavior by Americans both prior and after World War II are simply atrocious! Even at the height of the Jewish genocide, the US wouldn’t allow any large numbers of Euro-Jewish to immigrate to American. After the war, the same limitations kept many Euro-Jewish from repatriating here, further pushing everyone into an agreeable ‘world’ decision on where to put these folks. There exists a fascinating disconnect between the American public and American Jews. Not fully accepted, but not fully hated. Tolerated might be a better word. I found the Jewish people lovely people: people with morals, great family values and connections, fun-loving, engagingly sarcastic at times, and constant defenders of the underdog, possibly because they ARE the ‘Underdogs of the World.’ Criticism by the left of Israel, is as you say: non-Semitic, unless the REASONS for that non-support of the country has Semitic roots. It is you who suggest that I suggest the reason is Semitic. I am merely posing the question of ‘why’, although I do have my suspicions that many of the reasons for hating Israel is because some people simply hate Jews. I do entirely get the gist of your post, and thank you for providing the distinction very clearly. Very sincerely, ThreadBear |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy |
Huan/John, oh yikes! Tell me you just didn't post a Pro-Cindy Sheehan op/ed as way of explanation???!! I can't even BEGIN to respond to the insanity that this piece writes about. No offense, John, but I ain't going there! |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "I am not interested in the truth, or justice, or understanding, or anything else, except so far as it serves that purpose.... If an effective strategy means that some truths about the Jews don't come to light, I don't care. If an effective strategy means encouraging reasonable anti-Semitism, or reasonable hostility to Jews, I also don't care. If it means encouraging vicious racist anti-Semitism, or the destruction of the State of Israel, I still don't care" http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage .asp?DRIT=3&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=624&PID=0&IID=2614&TTL=The_Canadian_Campus_Scene . [This message has been edited by Huan Yi (10-08-2008 06:53 PM).] |
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