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Being a Woman
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Being a Woman |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee 
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In response to Huan Yi's topic: To Be a Man, I formed a new thread because I flipped his question. quote: My Observation: If I rule out: Gold Digger Gal Gone Wild Red Carpet Media ***** Rap/Rock Music Video Queen Radical Feminist Barbie Porn Star Sell Out Office Shark Femme Fatale Marriage Trapper Stripper Fashion Industry Paper Doll Prostitute Man Eater Home Wrecker Dependent Woman Uneducated Woman Frigid Woman Domineering Woman Harpy Submissive Woman Plasticized Woman or: Cheerleader Prom Queen Pageant Contestant/Pageant Mother Female Athlete I'm think I'm just a woman. Pretty Boring, huh? Anyone concerned about any of the examples I provided? I don't feel any of them are male enforced. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Are you suggesting they are less woman, just because they don't do as you? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
I'm kinda with Ess here Reg - many of those aren't necessarily a bad way to be, just "different." Perspective paints a lot more villians that reality ever will; situations can define moralities just as moralities can dictate the course of a situation. Either way, though - I bet there is a male equivalent for each of the traits you listed. Being a good or bad person isn't determined by gender.  |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Essorant~ No. I'm not special. Just me, and I've been labeled most of those things. Those are just some of the negative labels and messages women deal with every day within our families, peer to peer, our social circles, business, personal interests, romantic interests, church, and the media. Christopher~ Thank you. True. But do men treat other men as harshly as women treat each other with those labels? I do feel that female role models are hard to find outside of family. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Looking at many of the male role models available in the public today, I'd say it's not necessarily a bad thing to stick closer to home.  And - I've never claimed to understand women, so I'm not exactly what you might call an expert on the subject.   |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: You can only understand each one individually. Regina.. I vote you girl next door.. Looking at Christopher's comment though, about men -- it's interesting that the stereotypes we most often refer to about men have to do with occupations. Being the father of two daughters though -- I can't begin to tell you how different each of them are. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. I think what most clerks miss most is that more than anything else a man wants to come home. . |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Christopher~ I can understand how you might feel that way. Reb~ Awww, thanks! I wish my neighbors thought that. They think I'm the "strange and eccentric one on the block." ( with a bit of Hannibal from the Phantom of the Opera playing in the background.) I have heard men judge each other over their occupations. What about their choice of mate? I hear men trashing other men's mates, but never to their face. Two daughters? Big hugs, fella. You've got your hands full of wild and beautiful times, I'm sure. Huan Yi~ I know, but they can't. At least not with me, no matter what others have said about me. Reb~  |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: Tish! When you speak French it drives me wild! Cara Mia! I'm racking my brain trying to think of a time when a man spoke ill to me of another man's wife -- and the only conditions under which that ever happened was if a man was going through a particularly nasty divorce and the woman was, um... extracurricular. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Don't care what label you'd put on yerself, I'd love to be your neighbor! If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again. [This message has been edited by Larry C (01-03-2007 12:42 AM).] |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
reg: quote: But whether or not those labels are "male enforced" or not, doesn't make them womanly. Consider whether or not "wife beater", "dead-beat dad", "pimp", or "womanizer", really makes a man. Though there are some who consider these behaviors "manly". Negative labels exist for a reason even if those labels are misapplied. There are strands of negative behavior which work against one's fulfilled gender, whether you're male or female. Some of these negative behaviors involve the relationship between men and women. Porn stars and prostitutes are examples of womanhood derailed. Whether or not "male enforced" (though that is debatable still) these things do diminish womanhood. I think what cannot be easily denied is that there is a proper distinction between men and women, in spite of common ground. Stephen. |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Reb~ Oui, je parle le français, mais aucun Monsieur peut venir à ma maison avec moi. When I worked in an office, men were constantly judging each other by how "whipped" the other was by their wives. (behind the back) and would further the sting with "She's such a (negative label)" and then they would proceed with "I'd never let my wife tell me what to do, blah blah, establishing himself as the alpha male, blah blah" Then the phone would ring for that man. "Honey, pick up some cat litter while you're out." Women deal the same ugly cards, but in your face, one way or another, and it's hard to work around it, unless you're tough skinned. Larry~ Great! "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood....won't you be my neighbor?" Stephen~ No, we agree, not womanly, destructive and undermining to the very fiber of a woman, especially when it's unwarranted. A man, who has relations with any of the labeled women, can sit back and watch her be torn apart by other women as if he's a spectator at women's sports. Except for the second list which is laced with negativity/abuse. They are still acceptable and worthy aspirations within society. I was a female athlete, and I was called a female homosexual, more than once, by my peers who played the same game. Dumb, huh? But very real. Did it stop on the playing field? No. quote: "Behaviors," is the key word there, for me. We are well aware of the double-standards. Standards of behavior, social deviances, usually require both male and female involvement. This is where I go out on a limb and suffer more attacks from women. Do I blame men for double-standards? No. They are well enforced by women. Is it men's fault that we compete in so many ways we can no longer fit our own idyllic/idealistic mold? No. And I won't get surgery to do it, either. Nor will I hide behind my door afraid of what the world might do to me or think of me. Besides becoming a man, the only option for me is to be the best woman I can be, by my standards. The world will eventually tire with labels when my body becomes too aged for them to adhere. I will officially be OUT of the playing field. quote: Perhaps someday, it will also be an example of manhood derailed as well. And no, I don't think you feel that behavior is manly. But it is a good example of how women are stigmatized over and above the men in the same video/alley. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Both posts offend me. I am a person. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
See, Karen, you still feel the need to classify yourself though.  |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Serenity~ I value your opinion. You don't need anyone to agree with you for you to know you are a person. I value my womanhood and feel it compliments me as a person, whether anyone agrees or not. I don't feel I must first remove my womanhood before I have the same rights as any other person. However difficult it may be at times, I refuse to deny my womanhood in order to feel more equal in a world of every different kind of person there is. The very act suggests I'm ashamed or I feel there's something wrong with being a woman. I feel I must value all the aspects of humanity in order to make decisions/function/teach/lead, and learn from the negative ones. That is why we have issues of equality/inequality. That is why we have Human Rights and Women's Rights. "It is a fight for freedom to be fully and completely human and equal without apology or permission." http://hrw.org/women/ I won't apologize for applying myself as a woman who is free to be any person I wish to be. And am I wrong in saying that men have never been required to remove their manhood before they stepped into a voting box, or before they applied themselves as a person or a human worthy of fair and equal treatment? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I don't agree with the notion of "fulfilling" being male or female. Becoming "more" of a male or female after making love is a big nonsense too. Being a certain gender is already a given and is already "fullfilled". It is done before one comes out of the womb. No one comes out of his/her mother's womb without a fully established gender. After the womb, I do not think there is anything to fill about "gender". But it is now time to grow up, grow wiser and make choices. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I don't think I even qualify for human today. And yanno? That might not be such a bad thing.  |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Regina, Le non, ceux-ci sont les mots parlés par Gomez Adams à Morticia K, I am not an animal!  |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
My grandma use to preach the apple theories... Women are like apples on trees. The best ones are at the top of the tree. Most men don't want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they sometimes take the apples from the ground that aren't as good, but easy. The apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they're amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who is brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree. Now Men.... Men are like a fine wine. They begin as grapes, and it's up to women to stomp the hell out of them until they turn into something acceptable enough to have dinner with. |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
smiling at Balladeers explanation... and following the thread... M |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Essorant~ Children grow up to be adults, who are usually addressed as men and women, ladies and gentlemen. And if there's one thing I learn in the process of "growing up, growing wiser, and making my choices," is that fulfillment requires a continuous process of growth and learning from all the men, women, and children around me. I make my own choices accordingly. Serenity~ I still value your opinion, or your existence, if you didn't have an opinion. Reb~ You crack me up. Michael~ You are wonderful, and so was your Grandma. Thanks for sharing her and the smiles. Maureen~ Glad to have you peekin' in, hon. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Reg, You're funny! Serenity without an opinion. If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
following along and Deer your to funny, but loved the story...I wish, and believe me, knowing it isn't a perfect world, but wish so, people would consentrate more on exercising their minds...finding good, knowing that all things are not flawless...but then, that is a perfect world, isn't it. Thanks so much for this thread |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. And so what explains that now almost half of the country's children are being raised by a single adult? . |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Larry~ Spank spank. LeeJ~ So true, but even when we use our minds we can be subjected to attacks/negativity. Whether self-imposed or from those around us. I see us, as a whole, trying to use our minds, but undermining each other or our own selves, advertently or inadvertently. Usually for personal gain, or an easier way. Everyone has his/her own idea of what is ideal, but even ideas have to presented properly, or people will slam the very notion of it, and then rush to get a patent and make money off of your ideas-haha. It takes a lot of heart, as well, to hang in there, help others, and overcome issues so we can feel happy with our schtick n schtuff. Thank you LeeJ. Huan Yi~ Some choose to raise a child alone. I didn't have any choice. It was very hard, but we managed. My children are now 18 and 21. My daughter will graduate with honors in May and enter her choice of college, while my son has chosen IT tech, security. I am very proud of them. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "Some choose to raise a child alone." And what percentage is afforded little choice between that and abandonment? Is it not possible that women’s “liberation” ironically freed men of any sense of obligation? . |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
This is a little interesting.. Urination will go to committee A local decision that schoolboys must sit on toilet seats when urinating has provoked political debate. The head of The Democrats Party, a splinter group of former Progress Party hardliners, Vidar Kleppe, is outraged that boys at Dvergsnes School in Kristiansand have to sit and pee. Kleppe accuses the school of fiddling with God's work, and wants the matter discussed at the executive committee level of the local council, newspaper Dagbladet reports. "When boys are not allowed to pee in the natural way, the way boys have done for generations, it is meddling with God's work," Kleppe told the newspaper. "It is a human right not to have to sit down like a girl," Kleppe said. Principal Anne Lise Gjul at Dvergsnes School would not comment on Kleppe's plans to make political waves and regretted if anyone was offended by the ban on standing and passing water. Gjul told NRK (Norwegian Broadcasting) that the young boys are simply not good enough at aiming, and the point was to have a pleasant toilet that could be used by both boys and girls. Do men have to stand for this? or CAN men stand for this? Equality of the sexes is fine but do we have to tinkle from the same position? Will they employ "potty police" to flush out males in good standing? Is the world going to pot? (am I losing it.....?) |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
'Is it not possible that women’s “liberation” ironically freed men of any sense of obligation?' Hmmm... is this a "bad" thing? I'm not being rhetorical, I'm honestly wondering. There was an interesting thread a while back ago about how if abortion is legal, should it be legal for men to, say, abort their financial and emotional responsibility to an unwanted child... I think Jim posted it. You might want to check it out. I was raised by a single mom, and never wanted for anything, and I can't say I would ahve wanted it any other way. |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Reggie, forgive me as I tried to control these fingers but I just have to respond to Michael. I have to tell you I would pay just about anything to be there the day some guy goes to sit down to pee, and someone other jerk left the seat up by violating that rule. I love this step toward equality and look forward to standing up much more if its enforced to avoid even more filthy washrooms when they go to unisex. Sheesh! Just for the record, woman can do it standing or sitting and do all the time. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Hush, “Hmmm... is this a "bad" thing? I'm not being rhetorical, I'm honestly wondering.” From a man who was only after one thing, (or any other for that matter), perspective, how could it be? He was given freedom of choice. Anyone remember: “doing the right thing”? How many were otherwise condemned for the rest of their lives with the company of someone who was only intended as a convenient interval while he waited for “the one”? I’m not sure it was so much “women’s liberation” as the “pill” that did it. With the latter readily available it was hard to argue its omission did not involve an element of calculation, ( as opposed to passion). |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
As a former taker of the pill, I can attest that its omission was often simply a human factor: forgetfulness. Hence the advent of newer, longer working routes of dosing. |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Well, just for the record the wettest toilet seat I ever found was in a publice restroom after following the woman who was in there last. Proof she shouldn't have been standing. P.S. Reg I've been spanked for telling the truth before...  If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, |
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rwood Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793Tennessee |
Huan Yi~ I couldn't give you percentages, since even the government's census is incorrect, but the numbers are High, in instances of abandonment, or else our system wouldn't be backed up with claims upon dead-beat moms/dads and the children's homes wouldn't be full. "Is it not possible that women’s "liberation" ironically freed men of any sense of obligation?" Two words there: "Liberation." From Oppression. Sure, the short answer is: Freedom is costly. "Obligation." I just loved my kids, and if I based motherhood upon obligation, I would have signed myself into a mental hospital and begged out. My children didn't always warrant obligation during times such as: Food fights, with my hard earned groceries hanging off the ceiling instead of filling their bellies. Identity establishment, such as one child loving gospel music and the other loving Rob Zombie, and they'd have Volume Wars, while I was trying to grab a couple hours of sleep/peace for my next job. Obligations don't even require contact/interaction. I know many that just write checks, which is helpful, but still detached. Michael~ Sanitary issues are important, but I don't think little girls are more clean about anything. One drop of urine is still urine. And I don't even want to go into the sanitary issues of menses. Somebody has to clean it all up, so I'm sure that's where the stink has started. And...ummm...even when little boys sit down, they have to hold onto the seat to keep from falling in. Sometimes the aim is straight up, bless their hearts. hush~ I appreciate you and your mom. Mysteria~ Laugh! You Go girl. But I can't write my name in the snow. Hmph..pouting. Huan Yi~ Yep, with everything there is possibility of manipulation, or womanipulation...New word. Larry~ I know, there's just something icky about public restrooms in general, but ya gotta go sometimes. Gotta love ya. |
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