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A home without a wall, |
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| The Alley |
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Should the world declare martial law??? |
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Decriel Junior Member
since 2006-08-08
Posts 27 |
If the world declared martial we would not have the chaos of today, if some guy gets on your bad side kill him on the spot, finished and complete... Yes the world would be depopulated greatly at first but soon people would realise they are killing themselves off and equlibrium would be reached and harmony would be reached |
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Digital_Hell Member
since 2006-06-05
Posts 202Amidst black roses |
My brother you know how i feel about this... Many atimes have we even tried convincing the school of this  ... I agree fully. In the olden days, if a man slept with your wife, or impuned on your honour, you were allowed to challange him to a duel. Fight to the death. This is what it is about. Bring back the death penalty, Allow the police greater law and power than the criminals. Fight fire with fire. Yes the bloodshed and loss of life would be terrible but it would be worth it in the longer run perhaps? Create a society where any crime results in death. Then there will be no more crime. A sign in the wind |
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Decriel Junior Member
since 2006-08-08
Posts 27 |
POLICE?!?!? HAHAHA the black market is more like it, even in our society suppposepdly kept in order by them look what we can get away with, in this world or that they have and will never have any control, they will be among the first to be gunned down |
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Digital_Hell Member
since 2006-06-05
Posts 202Amidst black roses |
I dont mean normal police, i mean our kind of police  . Lethal and emotionless, carrying out their orders perfectly. With no compassion or feeling... You know of what i speak. And you know as well as i do that the world is chaos! Just look at us A sign in the wind |
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Digital_Hell Member
since 2006-06-05
Posts 202Amidst black roses |
This raises a very interesting question. They say: EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT. At what point should the world lay aside its complacecy and take a firm stand? Take an effective grip of the situation and kill it before it gets further out of hand? A sign in the wind |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
"We believe that words have power. We also believe that ALL human life is precious and should be protected. Any poetry or prose that condones or promotes hate or violence will be removed from the site immediately." pipTalk Guidelines The two of you just broke the most important rule in our forums. By your own professed standards, you get no trial, no explanation, no warnings, no second chances. You are judged guilty and must now face the consequences of your own negligence. So be it. If that doesn't seem fair, each of you might want to write me a private email and convince me your own barbaric standards shouldn't apply. Who knows? I just might be persuaded ...  |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
Martial Law-don't go outside, you'll set the alarm off! When you access the coldcut(ONELOVE TO MY HEROES, MATT BLACK and JOHNATHON MORE and another on this particular project, JELLO BIAFRA!) site, scroll left, and left-click to listen...track 10 on 'Let Us Play' (album cover looks like a dolly-mixtures packet-to the left of 'Beats and Pieces') called *EVERY HOME A PRISON to find out what martial law could mean. *"Curfew-no unauthorised activity." You are talking about anarchy (*"fend for yourselves, claw for yourselves, stab for yourselves, guard for yourselves what little money, savings, dignity and shelter you have left"), which will be superceded by martial law-do not go outside, do not gather in groups, every activity will be treated suspiciously...(Digital! Please listen to EVERY HOME A PRISON. Do you really believe that individual freedom can be met through martial law? Because, that's what your sweeping comments suggest ) are you ready for that BASE level of survival? I don't think so-unless you have a posse of drug and gunsmiths at your bidding. In our conversations, you come across as thoughtful-to yourself, and to others. What you're saying here is not thoughtful-even to yourself. Big Tings Gwan. You're in a thoughtless realm with the opinions you project here-really. I think I'm on it, but even I understand, in time of anarchy, I'd be no match, for the badness will destroy all senses. Surely some protection must be met by the whole of society for the 'delicates' of society, like the old, newly-born, poor and displaced? If not, then we have no roots and culture, only body-armoured robo-cops, visored-up and pumped to pull the trigger on births deaths and marriages. No celebration or congregation of the 'underclasses' will be allowed, and this will prepare the ground for a complete loss of individuality and community. Think about it. *"There's nothing to look forward to, except what we can score." 'We'll have to live in armed compounds, with armed guards, let's play tennis at gunpoint'? No way. [This message has been edited by kif kif (08-11-2006 06:53 PM).] |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Any poetry or prose that condones or promotes hate or violence will be removed from the site immediately." Why didn't you remove the prose then, Ron? And why aren't we hearing anything back from Digital Hell or Decriel? You will rather ban people instead, when you get the slightest ground to do so? Maybe they were the ones that spoke about a wrong, but you are the one that committed the wrong if you banned them from the forum. You can't teach anything or understand anything about people by trying to remove them. |
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Mysteria 
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
I have a tendency to also do what I want in my house too. If there is dirt on the floor I just don't sweep it under my carpet, I scoop it up, and throw it out. If someone doesn't follow the rules of the roost, they don't get invited back, plain and simple. Essorant I obviously don't agree as you can see. First of all this is Ron's site, and all costs come out of his own pocket for us to use, not abuse this poetry forum. I imagine he is our benefactor because he believes in the written word? We all have, or should have read the rules signing to get in his door, and if we can't abide by them, then there are a million other places people can post. By removing any individual who posts by their own choice against the rules as specified by these forums, that in itself is the lesson. I see also Ron invited them to privately email him to discuss it, and that is the proper thing to be done in my own opinion. By leaving this posting up, I think the message is coming across loud,clear, and fair. Have a great day! |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
I think it is a brilliant example of exersising freedom of speech. By leaving this post here, Ron is allowing room for manoeuver (sp?)...[even if it's to be locked, it's there to view, and form opinions on.] If no reason/balance can be met by the two people in question, then it is only right that they are -prevented access-. After all, it is that hard-line that they are advocating-are they exempt from the power of the law they seek? If an abhorrent subject is spoken of, it's logical that responses must be noted. Also, an apology must be written, in the truest sense of literary meaning, as reply. If the speaker does not reply, then he or she has no business on any stage, and must be prevented from tainting the art of communication. Essorant; everyone deserves a chance, but if anyone disrespects what's going on, they've got to be told-what Mysteria says about guests in the home is spot on. Words are deeds-acting immediately. Defend Or Die. [This message has been edited by kif kif (08-12-2006 06:02 PM).] |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
It's not Ron's fault that he's been burned so many times before. I can't blame him, based on some past behaviors, for jumping over other options. I was sort of interested though, in asking this poster and his cohort who 'the world' is in thier view and what exactly the mechanism would be for such a scenario to take place. I take it these two are rather young and I'm curious about how this generation views 'the world'. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Honestly, I don't understand this. If you believed in martial law (I guess we're supposed to read this literally?), then why are you waiting for someone to tell you what to do? I don't buy the premise. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Hmmmm. I think I need a good definition of martial law. We've been under martial law for quite some time here in New Orleans--then they lifted it--then they called the National Guard back in to "assist" the NOPD, and although there are strict curfews enforced in parts of the city, I'm still not certain of the laws (or my rights, resultant) So um, I'm confused. What would martial law entail? I am assuming that definition would have to be defined by a global order. That leaves me confused, as um, well this ideology of global world order seems to be what is causing so much global disorder. And if it is what was outlined by the opening exchange, then I thought Ron's move was a lovely mental finesse. |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
The person who posted might just be naive, or perhaps it's trolling behaviour? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
quote: Karen, I at least hope that #2 is the case in N.O. To get back to the original thread ideas, I can't envision any authority strong enough to invoke #1 for "The World." The whole scenario is pretty well discredited. I don't think these guys ever had any serious intent in anything they said, just another effort at shock value. LR, I can't imagine that you wouldn't have learned anything of value from them. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Mysteria, "I have a tendency to also do what I want in my house too. If there is dirt on the floor I just don't sweep it under my carpet, I scoop it up, and throw it out." So if you ever say something wrong in someone's house, you should be treated like dirt for it? How is that respectful and on root with the respects and rules of Passions? In fact, how is that not quite contrary to them? You are promoting treating people like dirt. By your and Ron's approach, then, shoudn't you be banned too? What is stopping Ron? If you posted those things that Digital Hell or Decrial posted, would you be banned today? "By leaving this posting up, I think the message is coming across loud,clear, and fair." Fair to treat people like dirt? Fair that if Mysteria wrote such a thing she obviously wouldn't be banned today? Fair that many other people in the past posted inappropriate things and were rightly not banned, but are still thankfully at Passions, perhaps some of the most influential members? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
I believe it was more than just this thread. It seemed pretty clear fight from the start that these two had no respect for these forums. Nearly everything either posted was purely for shock and disruptive in nature. They wanted to treat PIP as their personal chat room. I think Ron saw an attitude problem and resolved it before it got out of hand. You might judge his action as premature or heavy-handed but I can also understand his unwillingness to deal with disruptive behavior. And there truly is a difference between inappropriate postings by a long time, active member and one just starting. JMHO, of course. |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
Well, perhaps some people are 'disruptive in nature.' That's not always a bad thing, but in the context of posting enflammatory remarks, disruption must be supported with the validation of intent. Some people are sensational in their method of communication, that's not for us to judge; what is for us to judge is if that sensationalism is just a tool for personal attention, or if it is calling for attention to a valid question. So far, the two in question have not replied; but it is the weekend... ps;Essorant, you're pontificating, and clouding the issue with the angle of tolerance you project. I'm sure the metaphor implied the words, not the people in question. To follow...food is not the problem, it's leaving it out to go rotten, attracting ants, and worse, cockroaches. Housekeeping must be taken care of in order to live healthily. |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Essorant your comment is precisely why I love the written word, it means whatever the reader wants it to mean, not necessarily what the writer intended it to mean. To answer your remarks, which I almost didn't, this is to let you know that I would be the last person to be that disrespectful to refer to people as "dirt." I would suspect your trouble is with my metaphors. As for your comment about members being "perhaps some of the most influential members?" I know for a fact from being a moderator, that every single person here at this site is treated exactly the same if they act accordingly to the "house rules." Trust me, had I posted this as you suggested against the rules, I too would be  until I apologized, and talked it out. Actually, I am pretty sure that was the intent. I think if everyone took a turn at "cleaning the dust and dirt in these halls" they may understand better the concepts used to run the place, rather than assuming how it is done. This is perhaps the ONLY site that runs things so fairly, honestly, with more integrity than the rest, and that is why we are here I believe aren't we? Here is the link to Poet deVine's request for our members to sign up, and perhaps if some might think about taking a turn at being a moderator, they would surely see how the old blue pages are run? /pip/Forum3/HTML/004101.html |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Mysteria "To answer your remarks, which I almost didn't, this is to let you know that I would be the last person to be that disrespectful to refer to people as "dirt." I would suspect your trouble is with my metaphors. " Whether you intended or not, you aligned throwing dirt out, with banning a member. Period. How can you try and say I twisted that? Right after my comment about removing a member you said: "I have a tendency to also do what I want in my house too. If there is dirt on the floor I just don't sweep it under my carpet, I scoop it up, and throw it out. If someone doesn't follow the rules of the roost, they don't get invited back, plain and simple. Treating people like dirt. Period. Don't try to play the game "words can mean anything". They can't. The evidence speaks against you. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"I believe it was more than just this thread. It seemed pretty clear fight from the start that these two had no respect for these forums. " Pete, What thread more? An invisible one? Another username--just like almost every other member here has at this forum? I watch these forums fairly closely too, Pete. I didn't see anything wrong at all with the discussions Digital Hell brought up and participated in Philosophy and some other forums. Despite having a darker-side in perspective, he showed good manners in discussing things, and willingness to question and think about things. I have no doubt that he had acknowledged and understood that he spoke wrong and out of place here. And would probably discuss it as mannerly as he did other things in the forums, if at least given a chance. [This message has been edited by Essorant (08-13-2006 08:30 PM).] |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Not a Poet I don’t really have a firm opinion concerning what went on in and around this thread – I don’t have enough information. This comment however struck me as odd: quote: Do you mean they should be treated differently? If yes how should they be treated differently? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thanks Pete.  |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I made a passing comment in coversation one day and said "that's the pot calling the kettle black" One of my black friends objected to this -- rather strongly -- saying it was a racist comment. I defended it saying it was just a figure of speech meant to merely say that someone was being a hypocrite. He remained stalwartly opposed to the idea because he said that the underlying implication is that there is something WRONG with being black. Ah...  the lightbulb went off in my head..I understood his perspective -- but that didn't change the fact that THAT was NOT what I was saying in my invocation of the phrase. You're making a rather strong, unfortunate, indictment of Mysteria Ess. Even though you can grammatically and logically infer the analogy that doesn't mean that was her intent at all. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
That is why context is important, Local. I may not blame your saying what you did if you were speaking about something nonracial and casually said what you did. But if you used that phrase with a racial issue, while talking about treatment of people, perhaps specifically talking about black people, your comment would really be out of place and inappropriate, no matter what your intentions were. And I imagine you would agree that that would make it inappropriate as well. It is not the words in the thread that are being referred to as removed here. They are still in the open for everyone to see. It is the the treatment of a member being removed or banned for writing those words. And then Mysteria used the metaphor of dirt being removed. That was inappropriate in this, as the saying "calling the kettle black", if in a context talking about a racial issue involving black people. But obviously she won't be banned. And rightly so. If only such respect were shown to other members as well, especially those that, from what they say, may more than ever need help thro critical discussion and speech. When someone is thinking and speaking in an unhealthy manner, that is often when they need help the most thro friendship, acceptance and respectful discussion to help them understand better. That is no time for family and friends to say "no, get out of my house" |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
That's like the sky calling the sea blue-depending where you are, geographically. Of course, the sky in Spain may call the sea in Britain grey, and that would be an insult, even if it is true. Whatever, Mysteria's figure of speech is a reception to the words in question, not the people, like she's stated. (Personally, I like communicating with Digital Hell-he comes across as young, spiritual and poetic-he's here to write poetry in my opinion, and that's good, right? Essorant, you seem to be taking this as a personal attack against someone you feel you have to help. That's a nice thing to do, but it's not always the right thing to do-let him defend the words himself before we argue the why's.) As for the point about treatment of new and established users...new users won't always be aware of what subject matter's unacceptable (through over-use, or for it's flame-bait potential), just as they might not be aware of stylistic problems in presenting such subjects to the World Wide Web. Of course, a good writer should be able to present any subject...but we're not talking about a good write, we're talking about a piece of badly scored *vandalism for no apparent reason. Established users should know the etiquette, so if they continually post such subjects without backing it up with reason, must be dealt with more firmly than new users here...I would say, although it's possible for a new user to be 'here' solely for the purpose of using such subjects to disrupt communication within the group, to 'flame established users into reactng...I don't believe that's always a negative thing, but as I've said, intent must be shown. Sensationalism-it throws up such a mess! *Don't get me wrong, I'm aware of satirical works, street art that 'scribes what's wrong with the world, and that can have any shocking form. However, as any street artist will tell you, the more shocking it is, the most relief it must have-otherwise, the chances of passers-by getting *the message will be almost zero. (sometimes, the only message with tagging is presence-i W@z Er£ 0k!) [This message has been edited by kif kif (08-14-2006 06:28 AM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
No Grinch, I don't suggest that they should be treated differently, just that it is human nature that they are. Consider an old friend who says something that offends you. Then consider a new acquaintance who does the same, in fact has repeatedly offended you. How would you handle the situations? Sure, the "right thing to do" is probably try to find out why each of them said that. You almost surely would for the old friend but almost a surely would just avoid or even confront the other if possible. That's what I mean. That's human nature. I know Ron has a full plate just keeping these forums running. Maybe that day was an extra load. Maybe he just didn't have the time or energy to deal with these guys in some other manner. I don't know all the details any more than anyone else here but I think I know Ron well enough to feel entirely confident that he did what he thought was best for the entire group. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Kif Kif I don't take it as an attack against Digital Hell. But I continue to find it inappropriate. It says respectfully in the Guidelines that the inappropriate content is what should be removed immediatly. For whatever reason the content was not removed and I may respect that. But what I can't respect is the fact that it is taken out on the member's presence instead, instead of letting him speak, understand and be understood better thro friendship and critical discussion about it here in this forum. We all could've maturely spoken about the topic thereafter, including Digital Hell. I don't understand how that would've done any harm. Digital Hell would still be here at a healthy enviroment as Passions is, able to understand better thro sharing critical discussions and we would be able to understand his thoughts better as well. |
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icebox Member Elite
since 2003-05-03
Posts 4383in the shadows |
Well, OK Albert,…maybe it is time to watch that old post-apocalyptic joy ride, "A Boy And His Dog" then we can all sit around the communal fire telling tales of self-righteous thought restraint and playing pin the tail on Lou Craddock. |
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Edward Grim Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154Greenville, South Carolina |
I think martial law is a ridiculous idea. I believe that we need to start leaving other countries alone for a while and maybe some of the more hostile ones may start to leave us alone. But that's probably naive of me. As far as Ron banning the originators of the thread (if they were banned or not). I don't disagree, I'm a little surprised but from his post, it sounds like he gave the guys a chance to redeem themselves. Ron's got our backs... [Insert quote of wisdom here] |
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kif kif Member
since 2006-06-01
Posts 439BCN |
I have to agree with you Essorant; I don't think Digital Hell should have been banned...but perhaps he didn't e-mail Ron? Plus, it's not our call. I for one know what it's like to spout something in haste, but the adult thing to do then is to apologise. If digital is banned, then it means he's not said anything to support or forgive his words. After all, the subject is very violent, and the two of them spoke like violence was an option...and that's not what this site is about. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Thanks for thinking about this further, Kif Kif. I have no doubt that Digital Hell would've apologized here in this thread if the issue hadn't been cornered as if it were only something between Ron and Digital Hell when it was not. It was inappropriate words that were experienced by anyone that read this thread, and Digital Hell deserved at least the room to respond with the respectful manners he showed in responding to people elsewheres when participating in conversations in the forums. That is if the inappropriate content were going to be left out in the open as it is, despite what the Guidelines say about immediatly removing such content, and despite this forum being rated G. I believe simply allowing someone to speak can make a great difference in that person's life and also in leaving good examples between people. One learns to deal with people and issue thro critical thinking and respectful discussion among people and issues, not by trying to shove someone out and treat them as if they can't or shouldn't be accepted. |
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Sir_Vampire Member
since 2007-06-12
Posts 96Johannesburg |
i am a personal friend of digital_hell and Decriel, and they both emailed him but he never got back to either of them... And as a matter of interest shouldn't this post have been removed as it is against the rules? |
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