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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

0 posted 2004-11-20 09:44 AM

Last Thursday, Charlie Rose, (a public television talk host),
being in France, had as guests Alain Franchon, senior editor
of Le Monde, and Elaine Sciolino, Paris bureau chief, The New York Times.
During their conversation Ms. Sciolino said that French president
Jacques Chirac views himself as the uncrowned king of the Arab
world and Mr. Franchon remarked that many, feeling western continental
Europe has no political identity, seek to have or accomplish
that identity by opposition to the United States and its policies.
Neither The New York times or Le Monde are anything to my knowledge
like The National Review. Their comments above, (as well as those
speaking directly of or alluding to the influence of a large Moslem
population and anti-Semitism), help me understand France
a little better apropos of current events.

John

P.S. One of Rose's guests also said
that France wants to be taken seriously.

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (11-20-2004 10:34 AM).]

Alicat
Member Elite

since 1999-05-23

Posts 4094
Coastal Texas

1 posted 2004-11-20 10:20 AM

It's no secret that France desires strongly to recapture the status of world power they once held. In achieving that aim they want to control the EU and run it out of France, in effect making the EU equal France to better enable France to oppose the U.S. Saddam had the same desire of forming a Pan-Arabic state, with Iraq (and him by default) at its head.

With regards to the EU and France's ambitions, I'm even more for withdrawal of our forces from Western Europe. I'm sure France would like nothing more than to 'conscript' our forces there as EU peacekeepers, since they really don't have a military of their own.

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

2 posted 2004-11-20 10:42 AM

Can we say xenophobia five times fast?

"If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for our children."

--Texas governor, 100 years agos, on the abolishment of second language curricula.

The National Review used to be a good magazine. It's now, with the exception of Buckley opinion, just a pack of Bush/social conservative lapdogs.

But lets be honest, who do you think has the most weight in the EU right now?

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant

since 2004-10-12

Posts 6688
Waukegan

3 posted 2004-11-20 11:53 AM

“M Chirac made clear that he was in no mood to make a gesture towards Washington as President Bush enters his second term. In passing, he referred to Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary, as “that nice guy — I’ve forgotten his name — who talked about Old Europe”. He outlined in the clearest terms for some time his theory of a “multipolar” world. Washington sees this as code for French attempts to lead Europe as a counter-power to the United States.”…..

‘He, (Chirac), recalled negotiating Britain’s entry to the European Community when he served as Agriculture Minister in the early 1970s. He still felt bad because he had made very insulting remarks in French about the British minister then, believing that he did not speak the language. He later found out that he spoke it perfectly. “I thought, that’s a real example of British hypocrisy, hiding for two years that he spoke French!”’

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1360915_1,00.html

Something tells me Chirac has never been wrong.

Brad
Member Ascendant

since 1999-08-20

Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea

4 posted 2004-11-20 08:05 PM

quote:
Something tells me that Chirac has never been wrong.

--John

quote:
I am not sure, with America as it is these days, that it would be easy for someone, even the British, to be an honest broker. Perhaps that will change but that is the current state of things,” he said.

--Hmm, leaving the possibility open that he might be wrong?

And concerning the insult:

quote:
This year’s celebrations of the bicentenary of the Entente Cordiale had demonstrated the friendship between Britain and France. Musing on the old cross-Channel relationship, he said the rivalry was always founded on mutual esteem. “We enjoyed hating each other . . . It was a kind of violent love,” he said.

quote:
He still felt bad because he had made very insulting remarks in French about the British minister then, believing that he did not speak the language. He later found out that he spoke it perfectly. “I thought, that’s a real example of British hypocrisy, hiding for two years that he spoke French!

He regretted the remark, and the British hypocrisy remark was a joke. Wouldn't it be odd to start off a trip to Britain by insulting them? Wouldn't it make more sense to see it as a king of roast, tongue in cheek kind of thing?

And where Chirac is right:

quote:
The evolution of the world towards a multipolar situation is inevitable. That is part of the evolution of human history,” he said. “In consequence there will be a great American pole, a great European pole, a Chinese one, an Indian one, eventually a south American pole. These great poles have to live together

quote:
To prevent war between the poles, there must be a United Nations, he added. “The second condition is that the two poles that are founded on the same values — that is America and Europe — get on together so that they can be an element of dissuasion towards poles which have another culture, other historical values. The transatlantic link is absolutely essential in this multipolar world.”

I agree with both these points. The decision is whether to continue this kind of xenophopic isolationist Ramboism or to engage the world as a leader, not an instigator.

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