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Divided?
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Divided? |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697
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Now that the election is over.. well.. it's over. However, Americans seem to be so very divided over this race, even now. When I went to class today, I recieved some awful remarks, although my friends knew how I was voting awhile ago, they chose today to call me the backwards redneck for my choice. (Although the race in my state wasn't all that close) It wasn't just me, however. I heard so many angry voices in the halls and on the streets about how stupid 'they' are, and how 'they' will ruin America. It was a close and passionate race, but I just hope that Americans can find a way to come together now, under our president and our government, and work together. It may be a utopian thought, but I think we can do better than what I've been hearing today. If we can't, we won't be able to get anything done. I guess some might say this is an easy thing for me because my choice won. However, I knew it was quite possible that my choice wouldn't win, but I was ready to accept that fact and move on as an American. I just hope others can see it this way as well. Any thoughts on this? Oh, make me Thine forever |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Had the other party won, I wonder if the Republicans would be acting in this very way? I would certainly hope not, remembering that we go through this every four years - and every year it seems a "surprise" that America voted the way it did. But as has been seen on these very boards, this was not only a highly charged political race, but an extremely emotional one as well. It may be up to each individual to put aside their emotions over the decision, and go forward with a united spirit. They know that there will be another opportunity in four years to make yet another change. That is the best that we can strive for, I believe. But I know this...a nation divided will not stand up against anything. We HAVE to pull together. |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697 |
I'm not saying that this wouldn't have happened if the election went the other way, I'm just saying that I believe *I* wouldn't have done this, thats all... but I agree with the rest of your post  Oh, make me Thine forever |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
I bet the ones pitching out the loudest, are the ones that didn't vote. I wouldn't sweat it too much. Folks will settle down. I do have to say though, I am extremely happy with who won  |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
All I have to say is, I am disappointed, I am suprised, and frankly...heartbroken...but in important times like these, I believe we need to have class and fulfill the American desire to try and unite and not use our tears and anger on each other. What troubles me most of all is what are our youth going to think after today? Everyone at first was predicting a huge youth turnout among every major network and estimate. But in the end, not only wasn't there an above average turnout, not only was there not an average turnout, it was a below average turnout. Fewer than one in 10 voters were 18 to 24, about the same proportion of the electorate as in 2000, exit polls indicated. Everyone was admitting the intense passion they saw on college campuses, from Miami to Cleveland to Tempe. A majority thought they had never seen such involvement among college students since 1972. I also am worried about what the world will think in response to this, as I believe it's important to build communities and not just communities at home, but abroad. All I have to say is, "I hope they're right!". I hope Bush can do better in his second term than during his first term, I hope he can reverse the pessimistic opinion of America, where a majority believe America is heading in the wrong direction. I hope as he clearly decides to keep fighting this war that he takes responsibility, as it is clear he will not stop this war any time soon, and at least he won't rush us with impatience into another war. I believe we are gracious, and as Americans, we have to hope. We have to hope ever often help is on the way. As I do my part, in believing Bush won this election fair and square (his record remains 1-1) and doing what I believe every American should do and come together in trying to build communities and reach a common ground, I hope Bush does the same and can appeal this time around to mainstream values and desires, values of both sides. To the progressive community out there, whether you were Kerry, Nader, or Cobb supporters, let us not take out our frustration and anguish among one another or anyone in that manner. Let us not forget we have work to do, in continuing to present our desires and wishes to the public, and, hopefully, to the floor of the Senate and beyond. Kerry supporters, please don't blame the Naderites. Nader supporters, please don't blame the Kerry supporters, etc. We're all in this together, and the only way to start our progressive revolution for a good cause is to work together, unite. Let us work to achieve some crucial goals by 2008. Let us continue to promote enforcing this new ballot where you can pick your first, second and third favorites, so in the event where a candidate doesn't get a majority, the secondary numbers determine the winner. Let us work to continue promoting the progressive values of grassroots democracy, social justice, equal opportunity, ecological wisdom, non-violence, decentralization of wealth and power, economic justice, love of diversity and sustainability. Let us do everything in our power to protest the passing of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in multiple states, working to tear apart this piece of discriminating legislation and see to it gay and lesbian citizens are treated with respect and see to it we are all equal. And, most importantly, let us continue to do what we always do, in marching against this senseless war and call for the end of this occupation, for we have promised as long as this war continues, we will march on as well. Despite this troubling news, there is one thing I am very proud of, and it is here in Oregon. Over 850,000 passionate Oregonians came out to vote for Kerry, and he took that state by over 5%, a margin much larger than Gore in 2000. Oregon, to me, is example to the most involved progressive communities of this great nation, and I am so very proud of the passion and dedication given here! It feels to me Oregon may have been one of the exceptions to the low young turnout vote!  After this election, we may be heartbroken, but our passion and hopes are undaunted, and we will perservere! As for all Americans in general, whether you're one whose candidate won or whose candidate lost, please don't turn your backs on each other and stick your noses in the air. It is up to us to decide how united we are. Let us both find a little trust in one another, as well as be accountable, and most importantly, embrace one another regardless of our differences and respect and treat one another not as political rivals, but as neighbors, friends, siblings in spirit, as Americans. I believe that's the way we must behave, in being good winners and good losers. And in the end, I think if we can unite together like this, we will all be winners!  Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you But if the bright lights don't receive you You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20 [This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (11-03-2004 04:29 PM).] |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
I'm pretty relieved that Kerry conceded as early as he did. He *could* have dragged it out until all the overseas and provisional ballots were in from Ohio (and still lost anyway in all likelihood), but he was a much more graceful loser than Gore. Kudos to him for that. For all that I supported Bush in this election, I truly wish the Dems had found a better candidate. The lesser of two evils" is a very sad choice to make. |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697 |
Noah, I wonder if the polls that showed a lower than average student vote counted absantee ballots. Many students (including myself) used those to vote,since they attend school far from where they are registered. Also, I think the whole election is proof that polls aren't always right! Thanks for your comments, everybody. Also, for non-Americans, what do you think of all of this? I'm curious. Oh, make me Thine forever And should I fainting be Lord, let me never ever Outlive my love for Thee |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Skyfyre, I agree Kerry wasn't the clear standout among the candidates. It does make sense why Kerry ended up being the nominee. Because he finished on top in the Iowa caucus. Millions were passionate to have someone beat Bush and seeing Kerry finished first in Iowa, everyone else called one another saying, "Did you see the Iowa poll? It showed Kerry won! I think he's our best shot at getting Bush out, so vote Kerry in your primary!" Had Dean finished on top in Iowa, he would have been the Democratic presidential challenger. Had Kucinich finished on top, the same story. Iowa and New Hampshire are just exactly what's wrong with our preliminary democratic process. We need to reform the pre-election system so all state primaries are equally representative. So Florida matters just as much as Washington, so California matters just as much as Maine, and so forth. I voted for Kucinich personally back in Boulder, Colorado before moving to Portland, Oregon. Kucinich was my favorite of the Democratic contenders because I felt he was the most representative of progressive, democratic interests. Dean was my second favorite (I was a little turned off by his post-Iowa scream, LOL! ) because he was the best of the nominees in reaching out and building communities. His Internet campaign was brilliant, in encouraging one Democrat to phone four other Democrats in their neighborhood, meet up in their own houses and spread a campaign word. I absolutely agree in hating the whole "lesser of two evils" approach in our democratic system. This is exactly why we need to reform the rigid two-party system...NOW! Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
What I am surprised with is that Edwards’ state should go Republican, and Tom Daschle should lose his seat. I fully expected a change in congressional control at least in the Senate, instead the Republicans actually increased their standing. What is being missed? John [This message has been edited by Huan Yi (11-03-2004 08:35 PM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Gee, John, look at an electoral map. Do you see a trend? Let's see, those who are upset right now are the ones who didn't vote, a snide reference to Daschle and Edwards. This is humility? This is an attempt at uniting the country? Give me a break. The beauty of all this is bin Laden's speech. If another terrorist attack occurs on American soil, the argument will now be that we were attacked because Bush won. And you'll be proud of it. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Brad, What gives? I was genuinely surprised. A political figure made a comment about he and the media missing a segment of the population in their analysis without describing what it was. Why wouldn’t you expect the congress to change? Daschle and Edwards states should have been safe. There is no way I would have thought congressionally things would turn out the way they did. Bin Laden has already clearly stated it doesn’t matter who is president as long as policies, ( as regards Israel notably), don't change. A personal attack? Where’s that come from? John P.S. I actually voted Democratic for the Senate seat. |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697 |
All of your comments are very interesting, and I'm glad you're all replying, but I didn't really want this to be a thread revisiting the election. I just wanted to discuss how people will be united after being so harshly divided. Can we try to keep it a bit more on track? Thanks Please don't take this the wrong way... I am glad that you're all interested, but I just want to keep it to the subject, thats all. Oh, make me Thine forever |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
That's not what Denise said, that's not how Mike interpreted it. Sorry Lovebug, but uniting the country? Hmm, maybe if we can get Bush to resign . . . But, c'mon, you won. The Republicans are in control of the executive, the legislative, and the judicial branches and you're still playing the victim? "They" are those who said Kerry was going to ban the Bible, those who learned exactly the wrong lesson from Vietnam, those who said he was a traitor (When are legal proceedings going to begin?), those who said Kerry will take orders from Chirac or the UN, those who said the terrorists backed Kerry, and countless other insinuations. And then blame the same on Kerry. Give us some time to be bitter, we deserve it. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
LoveBug, I really don’t see politics as that critical. A foreign commentator once said that there could be no America without Americans; by that he meant it wasn’t the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, government, but the American character that made the country possible and a going concern. When my parents went back to visit the “old country” after a quarter century absence, they experienced for themselves how much more American they were than anything else as compared to those they met or reunited with. John |
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Kaoru
since 2003-06-07
Posts 3892where the wild flowers grow |
I guess I can say I understand, only it's the opposite for me.. I get made fun of by my friends, too...because the man I voted for, lost. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Aw, Brad. You're calling my remark snide because I expressed pleasure that a man I had no admiration for lost? Now my feelings are hurt I am to assume your "And you'll be proud of it." comment is NOT snide?By all means, be as bitter as you like. I would not have expected anything less, or more, from you. When you're done, perhaps we can move on... |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Kaoru, As you would if you were a Saint Louis Cardinals fan. It’s still no big thing. John |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Mike, There are many things I would call you, but it doesn't bother me that you expressed pleasure (and why the hell not?) at the result. The 'snide' remark was intended for John because he made a remark about Edwards not carrying his state. No one thought he would. But let's not pretend this was some high school election/popularity contest. The scary part is that some of you may see it as just that. |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
Brad, “That's not what Denise said, that's not how Mike interpreted it.” Who were you addressing, and in response to specifically what? This: "The beauty of all this is bin Laden's speech. If another terrorist attack occurs on American soil, the argument will now be that we were attacked because Bush won. And you'll be proud of it." which you wrote to me, disregrading: ‘"In his last video he states that any state that votes for Bush will face sever consequences." What is the exact quote? As I understood it, he said it made no difference; it was the policies that had to change. John’ and: "Mike, I’m with Kacy on this, (I’m going to Hell). Bin Laden made no comment about severe consequences should people vote for Bush. If he did, the Bush people would be dancing in the streets around Kerry people who had jumped out the windows. John" ? John |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Beats me, Brad. I don't know of anyone who looked at the election in that way. Actually, with that type of turn-out I beleve that people actually saw just how serious this election really was... |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697 |
Brad, "But, c'mon, you won. The Republicans are in control of the executive, the legislative, and the judicial branches and you're still playing the victim? " Actually, I'm not a republican. And yes, I am a victim because I would NEVER say the sort of horrible things to people that people I love are saying to me. Do you think I'm a stupid redneck too, Brad? Oh, make me Thine forever |
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