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Third Presidential Debate
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Third Presidential Debate |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas 
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This one is for the discussion of the economic questions and answers given during the final debate in Tempe, Arizona. And allow me to thank all of the participants in the prior threads for engaging in a very vibrant debate, and trying your collective bests to maintain respect and civility towards those with opposing views. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Thank you Ali and Ron and also all the other participants... In the third debate I think the most shocking thing was learning that John Kerry is from Mass. and... he's a liberal? Who knew?   |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
I'm just curious when Kerry will realize that he hasn't told us what is plan is. "I have a plan ... a better plan ... a plan ..." What the @#$%& is his plan? Ah yes ... this must be it: http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc66.htm Jim |
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Mistletoe Angel 
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Kerry won this debate, no doubt about it, especially if you watched it in split-screen mode. All in all, this third debate was suprisingly quite civil compared to the first two. I think both candidates had moments when they connected to the audience, something neither candidate could do exceptionally well in the town hall style debate. But Kerry did a better job than ever this last time in appealing to be more camera-friendly, more presentable to those not quite used to his equivocal, deep language. Like in the first debate, he clearly had done his research and made arguments filled with meat, yet was also able to substitute time looking down and writing notes to smile at the camera and present himself as more of an everyday citizen, who will admit "marrying up", speaking of his mother's words to him before passing away, and presenting how faith has guided him in his life. This I believe is what can boost Kerry up in the final stretch of the campaign. To be presented as a more likeable character, and I think he has succeeded to some extent, if not quite up to par with Bush's rating. Also, I think Kerry earned this victory when you consider the campaign strategies entering this final debate. The Kerry campaign wanted to expose Bush's record these past four years, the Bush campaign was saying, "You can run, but you can't hide!" and eager to expose Kerry's 20-year Senate record. Bush got some statistics across of Kerry's record, but Kerry was effectively able to defend his ground and provide own examples of success in his record, including breaking from his own party in 1985 to balance the budget. On top of that, I think Kerry more effectively exposed Bush's record the past four years than Bush did on his mission to expose Kerry. From how Bush handled the Assault Weapons Ban and let it expire, to the constitutional amendment proposed to ban gay marriage, to social security, even to immigration, where Bush claimed it was a subject he was quite familiar with being a border governor, Kerry presented his arguments in a fashion that painted Bush like Mr. Hand from "Fast Times At Ridgemont High" when he looks at Kerry's answers, reacting like what Mr. Hand did to Jeff Spicoli! Kerry's best answers I believe came from the constitutional amendment argument, where he gave a very empathetic, spiritually-toned "We are all God's children" response, as well as on the faith-in-life question, his response to the assault weapons ban expiration, and his argument on raising the minimum wage. Of course, Bush had some strong moments. I thought he, like Kerry, also had a good closing statement, a great answer to the final question on what he learned from his wife and daughters, and good rebuttals on the tax argument. Finally, watching this debate in split-screen mode, Kerry looked more disciplined than Bush. Kerry appeared more camera-friendly while Bush gradually got more tense and drew impatient gestures as the debate moved on, until the last few questions, where Bush improved. In the end, I think Kerry got more that he hoped to get out of this final debate than Bush did. Bush looked and did better in comparison to that first debate, but still fell behind here. FINAL DEBATE RECORD: KERRY 2-0-1, BUSH 0-2-1 Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Toerag Member Ascendant
since 1999-07-29
Posts 5622Ala bam a |
I watched it...But it was the same rhetoric crap....both sides....Loved the way Kerry brought Cheney's daughter into the picture...when he could have mentioned his fellow senator instead?.....and, I've found out today, that there are some things Bush can't discuss about BinLaden and couldn't respond to....but, as usual, it was the same crap on both sides.....was interesting though that Hillary Clinton's drug/health care plan wasn't mentioned...you know, the one that put one or two companies out of business....(ones that were to provide flu vacs?)....when she put "caps" and such on bidding companies for providing them...we ran into this at an aerospace company I'm retired from....that's where the news picked up on companies charging several thousand dollars for three or four bolts?...It just so happens that the Clinton administration insisted on going to the lowest bidder no matter what...and the bolts that were provided truly went to the lowest bidder with very expensive "re-tooling" to provide extras.....Bush ain't perfect...but he's tried his best..and, under the circumstances...(most all unknown by the critical public)...has done a far better job than could be expected....Kerry is wanting to be there...Bush HAS BEEN THERE!!!! |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
..the best he can, under the circumstances Yes Toe, circumstances he helped create and inflame. Early in the the debate Kerry mentioned a Bush statement regarding Osama Bin Laden which Bush claimed he'd never said and that it was an exageration. "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important." ~President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02 |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
In response to Kerry meantioning Cheney's daughter Mary in last night's debate in response to the argument on constitutional amendment, what everyone must understand is that it was actually Cheney himself who put Mary out there in the debate. And I don't think he was intentionally trying to ridicule her or anything. On August 25th at a rally in Davenport, Iowa, Cheney said his view of marriage is that "freedom means freedom for everyone.". I believe that too. He was saying this when openly opposing the constitutional ban on gay marriage. Kerry, last night I believe, was no different in how he responded. He specifically said, "she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as" and that we must respect that. Cheney's wife has come out to say Kerry "is not a good man" and pulled off "a cheap and tawdry political trick.". If she really felt that way, then I wonder how she felt about what Cheney said August 25th. I don't see anything wrong on either response. After all, Edwards said during the VP debate: "We respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her. It's a wonderful thing." Cheney responded in thanking Edwards for the "kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much." No, I think Kerry was mature in how he answered that question. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
It was a political tactic to show division within the current Bush/Cheney administration to further illustrate the divisions across this country. As mentioned earlier, he could have very easily mentioned homosexual senators, representatives, certain governors, or anyone. Instead, he willingly and purposefully chose Cheney's daughter for political gain. When Edwards said what he said, Cheney could have easily gone ballistic, and I do believe that was the intention. Instead, Cheney diffused the question by thanking the junior Senator for his kind words, which I'm sure threw Edwards off, especially given Cheney's well publicized forceful nature. |
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inot2B Member Elite
since 2000-09-18
Posts 2205Arkansas |
I promised to stay out of this but sometimes one has to have their say. Remember all the promises Kerry offers can only be done if Congress allows it. Yes, it would be nice to know exactly what the plans consist of, but he doesn't seem to think the American people are smart enough to understand so why waste his time telling us. I expect that those who voted for "Impeached Ex President Clinton" not once but twice, will vote for Kerry. I refuse to vote for someone who stood up and spoke against our fighting men in Viet Nam. Yes there were some bad apples, but it didn't make all of them bad. I feel for our country if this man is ever let in the White House. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Alicat, I think the best way to go about this argument is to wait and hear what Mary has to say herself. But in my opinion, I really don't think Kerry was intentionally mentioning her for political gain. If anything, I believe Kerry was honoring Mary in what she has done for being open about her realtionship and encouraging others not to be ashamed of it and respect how they are. Mary was open about it ever since she worked for Coors, which had a reputation of bankrolling conservative, anti-gay causes, which gay groups have long boycotted Coors for. No, I think, in my opinion, Lynne took Kerry's remark the wrong way or overreacted. Now, if Mary comes out and says she was offended by how Kerry mentioned her, then we should consider that. But it seems since she hasn't said anything yet about either Edwards or Kerry's responses, I think she feels he wasn't intentionally trying to publicize her in political gain intention. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Now, I'd like to get another point across. All in all, I thought Bob Schieffer did great in selecting questions for last night's debate. However, I was troubled to see no questions whatsoever regarding the environment, or on stem cell research. In regard to the former, many Americans do see the environment as a major issue. 73% of Americans believe our environment must be protected. Yet, an issue that is important to 3/4 of all mericans wasn't mentioned whatsoever last night. And stem cell research, I figured, was certain to be mentioned once in question form, especially considering Christopher Reeve's passing, who was a great advocate for spinal cord repair research and so I've heard Reeve left a lengthy message for Kerry, advising him of promoting stem cell research to the next level. I was disappointed by that. Anyone else disappointed by that? Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Not really, and that's not a political viewpoint, but classification. Third debate was economics. Second debate had those discussions as the questions came from undecided voters and those who were soft Bush or soft Kerry, and touched on many issues not normally classified as national security (first debate) or economic (third debate). So neither surprised nor disappointed. I would have been disappointed if Christopher Reeves' passing was used as an emotional political tool during a Presidential debate, irregardless of who did it. That, to this rather simple person, is just plain wrong and disrespectful. If, after the elections, the President or President-Elect desires to do something honoring Mr. Reeves, then that's their perogative. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Noah, I seriously don't see how you thought Kerry bringing up Cheney's daughter had nothing to do with politics. He could have made his point just as easily by not mentioning her. I thought it was cheap and uneccessary. Now, what really irritated me about one of Bush's responses regarding job loss- he kept harping on education and community colleges... so is that what you tell someone who lost their income- to spend even more money they don't have on school? My friend's boyfriend's dad (phew- mouthful) lost a job at a factory, where he was making 26 bucks an hour. He found another job (I'm not sure what, exactly) making 9 dollars an hour. I, make four more dollars an hour than somebody with children my age who just lost almost 2/3 of his income. It just sickens me, it makes me feel guilty and unworthy of my job in light of this. I don't think I'd want to be in the room if someone told him to go to college on that (while the mortgage isn't getting paid)... |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
If this wasn't such an important election, I could be more amused than disgusted. Back in the day, when I was offered a "choice" of governor between David Duke and Edwin Edwards, Edwards unofficial campaign slogan was "hold your nose and vote for me!" And I did just that, after my campaign for Roemer fell on deaf ears, and then my pleas to The Coalition to End Racism (Lance Hill) also were ignored. I chose a thief over a Nazi thief. I find myself in that same repugnant situation, but now I'm forced to choose between liars. Bush frightens me and can't even tell me the lies I wanted to hear. shrug I'm done listening to the lying rhetoric on both sides. Think I'll vote for the chance for Kerry to be a proven liar of presidential caliber. I guess I'll bring a clothespin into the booth with me. sigh |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
"And stem cell research, I figured, was certain to be mentioned once in question form, especially considering Christopher Reeve's passing,"....Noah It WAS mentioned...by John Edwards.. "Edwards: 'When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk. Get up out of that wheelchair and walk again'..." I can think of no more pathetic example as to how low Kerry and Edwards will go. The stem cell research in question has absolutely nothing to do with the spinal cord or prevention or cure for spinal paralysis. Edwards just couldn't pass up the chance to use it against Bush, hoping uninformed people wouldn't realize that fact. He made other comments that "if it weren't for Bush, people like Christopher Reeve would be walking. After he released his comments, there was a bombardment of statements from doctors refuting his statements. Kerry had to avoid it...thanks their sub-human tactics, the subject had become poison. |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Here's an article that I thought was enlightening on the economic numbers being tossed around by the Kerry/Edwards team in an attempt to disparage Bush. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/alanreynolds/ar20041014.shtml |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Hush: I don't think politics had to do with Cheney's daughter being mentioned, but if it is somehow, may I remind you that it was Dick Cheney himself who put her in the argument in the first place. Therefore, according to Lynne's own statement, would that mean her husband is, in fact, a "bad man"? That he's been pulling a cheap trick on their own daughter? I don't believe that, and I don't believe Kerry did that either. ******* Balladeer: I meant last night. No stem-cell research related questions were asked last night when many were certain it'd come up somewhere. Those who really knew Christopher Reeve would understand him far more than just being Superman, but being a super man. His activism is what has made him loved by his deepest fans. He protested the Vietnam War. He was a lobbyist on many levels and testified on the floor of the Senate to get bills passed to fund spinal cord injury research as well as to get bills defeated he personally opposed. He said himself, "It is one thing to present legislators with statistics, but quite another to make them face real people who testify at congressional hearings or speak out in the media." He's worked for many liberal organizations including Amnesty International, Save the Children and the National Resources Defense Council. He addressed the United Nations to encourage the banning of drift net tuna fishing. His own organization, the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation, funds research that develops treatments and cures for paralysis caused by spinal cord injury and other central nervous system disorders, and advocates very much the stem cell research issue. Christopher would have wanted it that way to have this issue discussed on and on one way or another. After all, he left a long audio message for Kerry shortly before passing away. That seems to tell me something, that he wanted Kerry to get the word out, and that he wouldn't be using him as political gain. Sub-human tactics? I resent that remark. ******* Denise: Well, being a partisan conservative site, I don't know how much I can trust that article, but I will tell you this. I don't doubt that there were a few inaccuracies on both sides last night. Kerry still made the mistake in citing 1.6 million jobs lost currently since the beginning of Bush's term. It's actually 1.6 private sector jobs lost, but the real number lost is 821,000, which is still embarrassing, but half of what Kerry said and a stretch. Kerry also made a mishap on the Pell Grants issue, where he said it was cut but Bush claimed it gained a million students. Bush was actually correct there. Bush, however, made mistakes too. He said most of his tax cuts go to low and middle income families. Yet, the bottom 60 percent of individuals and families got only 13.7% of the tax cuts, according to the Tax Policy Center. Meanwhile, 54 percent of them go to the top 10% of American families. He also, like he has many times during his campaign in tying many issues to why we need litigation reform and keeping doctors from suing the medical companies, said that the fear of being sued has costed the federal government $28 billion a year and costs our society as much as $100 million. That couldn't be any further from the truth according to what studies have said. Those are the facts, and both Bush and Kerry distorted them. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you But if the bright lights don't receive you You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20 |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Noah, I know you meant last night. Edward's ridiculous comments and the aftermath were made yesterday morning. ...and, yes, I agree. I owe an aoplogy to all sub-humans.  |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
ah nevermind |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
Has anyone heard of the incidences reported in this article? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40914 |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Noah? As to the sexual orientation of Dick's daughter, I agree he opened that door to hegin with. I am apalled that "our" candidate chose to walk through it, however. Kinda makes ya realize that in actuality, "we" are joined at the hip, eh? But if I were her, I think I'd be most pissed at my parents. It was them that made it a multi-political chip, and my sympathies are with her. Shame shame shame on all, methinks. Dark days in the "united" States... |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I never thought I would see the day I would log back in to add a "tsk" to m'buddy, Balladeer? But sheesh mike, sub-human? sigh Let us define: http://anthro.palomar.edu/vary/vary_2.htm  Now there. I just like to think that all of us here are gifted with the opposable thumb--otherwise we wouldtypelikethis?  yik yuk yik  |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
The comment Kerry made about Cheney's daughter WAS unnecessary, but not a cheap shot. Actually, Ms Cheney's reaction gives me the impression she is embarrassed by her daughter, or such comments wouldn't appear 'tawdry.' I am a Kerry supporter in general, but didn't care for the personal comment, and feel it was inappropriate. But even more inappropriate, for the Prez to suggest that someone already well educated and a professional should just 'go back to college' after losing a high paying job. *&^%$#!!! What makes anyone think additional higher education is going to solve this problem? I don't think anyone really won this debate, but I was really annoyed by Bush's silly giggly attitude, as if this was some middle school locker room scuffle. And as always happens in these so-called debates, both avoided and danced around at least one question. I'm glad I had a chance to watch this one, but also glad it was the last. I shudder to think of what the next few days bring though, in the way of negative campaign ads. IF you read and listen to the foreign press, I think you'll find most don't trust Bush on foreign policy. And personally, I don't trust him on foreign OR domestic issues. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
 Karen, I will agree that though I don't believe Kerry's mentioning of Mary was meant to be disrespectful, it was not necessary. I do agree there. I think he could have formed just as strong of an argument on the discrimination of the amendment without any use of names. I will say that I do think Kerry's five-time mentioning of John McCain's name, however, IS politically-motivated. As for Bush and his comment on a professional who lost his job, suggesting one "go back to college", yes, I found that somewhat insulting. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Noah- how is it not politically motivated to use one name, while it is to use another? I think his mentioning of Cheney's daughter was just a little jab, a "see there's gays on your side too, so how can you discriminate" finger point- which I think is a steaming load of bull since he too opposes gay marriage... but supports partnership rights... strikes me as a seperate but equal angle... I guess that's better than a constitutional amendment against it... (for now). The mentioning of McCain, in my opinion, was to show how he can work with Rebuplicans, how he's not a raving Liberal, how he's nice and moderate and safe. I had to laugh, tho, at Bush's maligning of Kerry as a Liberal (ooh, how bad!) I mean, to me, Kerry seems like a suit, like a square... and I don't even consider myself that liberal. I wonder what Bush would say if he met me, or some of my friends, many of whom I consider much more liberal than myself. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Kerry-Edwards campaign Tuesday launched a new radio ad titled "Flu." The 60- second radio spot details President Bush and the Republicans' failure to deal with the flu vaccine crisis in America: "Flu" will begin airing on Florida radio stations. It can be heard online at: http://www.johnkerry.com/audio/101904_flu_radio.html Title: "Flu Narrator" Type: :60 RADIO Date: 10/19/04 Paid for By: Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc./Democratic National Committee AD SCRIPT NARRATOR: "If you're an elderly man or woman. If you're a young child. If you're a pregnant woman George Bush and the Republicans have this to say on health care: don't get sick. That's what they said, confronted with a flu vaccine shortage of their making. Don't get sick. They relied on foreign workers to make the vaccine. A company with a bad track record. Now were about 50 million vaccines short. 50 million. If they can't even deal with the flu vaccine, how are they going to deal with bio terror vaccines? I mean, George Bush and the Republicans are so busy kow-towing to drug companies, so busy giving them billions, helping them price gouge, pumping up their profits, so busy selling us out, they can't even get vaccines to keep pregnant woman safe from the flu. 4 more years? They haven't earned it. Not even close. It's time for a new direction. John Kerry for president." JOHN KERRY: "I'm John Kerry, I'm running for president, and I approved this ad." NARRATOR: "Paid for by Kerry-Edwards 2004 Inc. and the Democratic National Committee." Combine this with Edward's inane comment about people like Christopher Reeve being able to get up and walk if not for the suppression of stem cell research and you see Kerry and Edwards following the same road that Al Gore trod by shooting themselves in the foot at every opportunity in their drive to lay every evil in the world at Bush's feet....and they didn't even have to invent the internet to do it! Keep up the good work, fellas |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I thought it was particular humorous, albeit darkly, how Kerry endorsed embryonic stem cell research to help para/quadraplegics. Most of those cases are from damaged/severed spinal cords, and some end up with amputations. How embryonic stem cell research is going to repair the spinal cord or regrow lost limbs is beyond me, but I have faith that Kerry has a PLAN. Lord knows he's said that so often that it must be true by now. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20011203004/tscript.htm |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: --George W. Bush, third presidential debate. Now, doesn't that make you feel safer? It wasn't my fault, it was England's. And in the mean time, Bush advocates rationing until Canada can come up with something better. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: How can he be anything but a flip-flopper Amy? I mean, you can't BE a liberal if you can't make up your mind. After spending $60 million to try to paint him as a flip-flopper now we're supposed to believe his long voting record (that he never showed up for) makes him only one thing...!  But on the political spectrum he is a Libertarian Leaning Liberal http://www.issues2002.org/Senate/John_Kerry.htm (scroll to the bottom of the referenced page for a chart) Which is actually to the right of Ted Kennedy who is a Left Leaning Liberal http://www.issues2002.org/Senate/Ted_Kennedy.htm And to the right of Howard Dean who is a Hard-Core Liberal http://www.issues2002.org/Howard_Dean.htm But left of John McCain who is a Moderate Conservative http://www.issues2002.org/Senate/John_McCain.htm Or G.W. who is a Hard-Core Conservative http://www.issues2002.org/George_W__Bush.htm |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Brad, everyone has missed the real joke out of that exchange though -- in the previous debate he wasn't sure we could trust the (re)importation of drugs from Canada. Where is the press? |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
During the early 90's, there were 5 flu vaccine manufacturers, mostly in the US. After Hillary Clinton's child vaccination plan, signed off by her husband, price caps were placed on flu vaccines, which to date have not changed in 10 years, though the price of manufacturing, employees, machinery, insurance, and litigation has dramatically increased. And yes, litigation. Some who get the vaccine get hit by another strain of influenza, claim the vaccine didn't work, and sue. I'm not sure about this season, but typically there's at least 5 or so different strains floating around at any given time. Now, it would be great if the companies and employees worked for free, and that the machinery was free, since making flu vaccines does not turn any sort of profit. Instead, it loses money. Anyhow, it would be great if those aforemention conditions existed, but they don't. Businesses are in the business of staying in business. As for that interview regaring spinal injury and rejuvination, it's all theory at this point. True, embryonic cells might pave the way to turning that theory into fact, but what exactly is wrong with adult, umbilical cord and existing embryonic stem cell lines that would require the harvesting of undestroyed embryonic cells? Also, wouldn't the corporations which specialize in frozen embryos have to get permission from all the donors before they could destroy those cells to gain the material inside the cell? What about their rights, the hopeful mothers? |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
quote: http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/news/May2004/EthicalDilemmaofStemCellResearch.html |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
It's Clinton's fault again. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Good information, LR, though it really didn't answer my questions. And Brad, it ain't all Clinton's fault, though he does share in the blame if blame is to be given. Every new president inherits things from the predecessor, and Bush, like some others in history, inherited quite a few. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
No, I answered the latter question, I thought you were merely being rhetorical with the first. But, here it is; quote: http://www.stemcellresearchfoundation.org/About/FAQ.htm#4 |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist attacked Sen. John Edwards on Tuesday over a comment the Democratic vice presidential candidate made regarding actor Christopher Reeve. Edwards said Reeve, who died Sunday, "was a powerful voice for the need to do stem cell research and change the lives of people like him. "If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve will get up out of that wheelchair and walk again," Edwards said. Frist, a Republican from Tennessee, called Edwards' remark "crass" and "shameful," and said it gave false hope that new treatments were imminent. Edwards campaign spokesman Mark Kornblau hit back, "Yes, breakthrough research often takes time, but that's never been a reason to not even try -- until George Bush." Edwards made the comment Monday while he was stumping in Newton, Iowa. Frist, who was a heart surgeon before coming to the Senate, responded Tuesday in a conference call with reporters arranged by the Bush-Cheney campaign. "I find it opportunistic to use the death of someone like Christopher Reeve -- I think it is shameful -- in order to mislead the American people," Frist said. "We should be offering people hope, but neither physicians, scientists, public servants or trial lawyers like John Edwards should be offering hype. "It is cruel to people who have disabilities and chronic diseases, and, on top of that, it's dishonest. It's giving false hope to people, and I can tell you as a physician who's treated scores of thousands of patients that you don't give them false hope." Criticizing Edwards' comment linking the lifting of Bush's policy to medical breakthroughs, Frist said research related to spinal cord injuries does not involve embryonic stem cells but rather adult stem cells, "where the president has absolutely no restrictions, no limitations and there are about 140 treatments." Embryonic stem cells are believed to be able to develop into more kinds of cells than adult stem cells, and thus more useful in potentially treating diseases. Yet some research indicates that might not be the case, and the National Institutes of Health has called for further study of both adult and embryonic stem cells. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I wonder what would happen if the scientists got together and returned the favor? "Sorry, Senators and Congressmen, but you can't even debate, let alone pass, laws of that nature because we don't believe you collectively have the moral wisdom or ethical foundation to do it safely." In the long run, of course, it won't matter. Those with serious spinal chord injuries will still be able to walk one day, in spite of the best (sic) efforts of blundering and myopic American politicians. It'll just take a bit longer to get there and we'll be paying for the operation in francs instead of dollars. There's a big difference between "no one really knows yet" and "we're too damn afraid to find out." |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Actually, the initial point of my post was not referring to the pros and cons of stem cell research or the responsibilities behind the shortage of flu shots. I believe that Kerry/Edwards are giving the impression that they wake us each morning, look for anything that has happened with a negative aspect to it - and immediately blame it on Bush. They are giving the appearance of grasping at straws in desperation of hitting some last-minute home run. Christopher Reeve dies? Point the finger at Bush. Flu shot shortage? Blame Bush. True, Democrats will join in the finger-pointing and Republicans will join in the denial but I think the undecideds will say "Enough already!". I doubt seriously that anyone will be convinced that the flu shot shortage is Bush's fault and I think these kindergartenish tactics are turning people off which, in my opinion, is why Bush has picked up a couple of percentage points in the past couple of days. This is why I say keep it up, fellas. Your whining and obvious mud-slinging at any opportunity is turning people toward Bush..... If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a soldier. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
if you take an honest look at both candidates, and forget about your party, but really try and decide who the best man would be to be President...I believe the choice is the lesser of two evils. They're both responsible for mud slinging and whats worse is, they both state they have plans...but the insult to our nation is....no one demands they lay their plans forward in presentations...we just accept the mud slinging. Honestly I don't care what Kerry did when he was what? 20-24...we've all done things we're sorry for. Again I state, my brother was in Vietnam...I wanted to protest the war...but couldn't...how could I and look my brother in the eyes again? We've become a divided coutry by this party thing...it's not about the party, it's about the best people for the position (s) and then it's our job to oversee.... Does anyone realize what issue presently faces our country...and no body is listening or even reporting about it. Immigration is so bad presently in Calif., Texas, Arizona...millions of people are in this country depleating our economy. Using our hospital emergency rooms which has forced 3 hospitals in Lancaster California to shut down. They aren't paying for their medical care...they're living off of welfare and they gain social security numbers for all of their sur names?????? Does anyone realize how many gangs have evolved from these illegal immigrants? Out there, Caucasions feel like minorites, crime is so bad that older people are afraid to go out?????? Can anyone imagine the ripple effect of this issue? Then on TV, they play upon your emotions to get you on their side? I'm all for anyone who wishes to come to this country to live free...but I'm not for working against our community...but working with us...and don't change our language...learn ours! Children in school are having to learn to speak Spanish????? Directions are printed in how many different languages...now TV programs????? This is an insult the the people of this nation, and if you'd move to any other country, do you think, you'd be able to collect welfare, obtain free medical care, not pay taxes, obtain a job for less then minimum wage. You'd live by their rules, they wouldn't change them to accomodate them???? They wouldn't change their language, nor would they allow us to deplete their medical system. If anyone here knows about this, please feel free to educate people on this dangerous problem...b/c if we don't, the effects of this, will cause many many problems down the road. Its not about the parties...it's about the people and taking an honest approach to issues at hand...they've divided our country, and I'm not at all certain that it wasn't intended to be that way. Both men are wrong...both repulicans and democrates have made mistakes...but the real problem is the people...they deny whats going on...they like to sit back and allow these guys to get away with this stuff and do nothing about it but point fingers...we all have to become working citizens of this US and it means getting involved...forget what party you are and demand this stuff be changed. Remind them, they're working for us...and it's our tax dollars... I don't feel any safer now, then I did before 911, and if many of you saw what was going on with illegal immigration, you'd feel the same way. Its bigger then you would ever believe, and getting worse... Whatever man makes the presidency...whatever your party is...people have to stop defending lies...slinging mud and get down to the issues at hand, openly and honestly. What scares me...big time, are the extreme lefts and rights...who are obsessed with their party???? And refuse to admit their parties wrong doings... Both sides are wrong, and have been wrong...and it's time we grow up and stop fighting...we need to wake up and be part of the community If we're short on vaccines, then what will we do if some contagious disease infects our country? We're so vulnerable, everything is leaving and being outsourced? Think about this folks, we're no longer self sufficient...all b/c of money hungry judges, and attorneys..politicians...and when ever you make a decission, for the specific gain of money...instead of how the decission will effect everyone...then, we're bound to loose??? I feel no safer now, then I did after 911...we're vulnerable...our infostructure is way outdated and dangerous, and there is no money to fix it... Chemical companies are constantly experiencing leaks..... Our economy is declining, our jobs are dissappearing there are no regulations over anything, even price gouging?????? And shame those that do so!!!! Taking advantage of someone's dispair... We've become immoral and corrupt...and we still don't get it...we still back our parties instead of standing together side by side and saying...wait a minute, I want to see agendas, facts and figures...stop this kindergarden mud slashing... When was the last time you made a mistake? We're people, we all do, but admitting our mistakes and moving forward is becomeing the issue? I don't mean to sound angry, or like a know it all, but the next four years, really worries me, if Bush gets in... and oh, by the way, I voted for him...but now have registered independent...and if Kerry gets in and doesn't do his job in four more years then, I'll vote him out...in the meantime we have options, to get involved and realize what is really going on around us. I believe a lot of American's live in a dream state and fear saying, geeze I was wrong, or am wrong. Hey, it's our fault, just as much as theres, it was and is OUR WATCH AS WELL. Just my opinion and thoughts Mean no insult to anyone |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Yeah, us poor white people being in the minority... I feel so sorry for us. Maybe it would actually teach us somehumility to be outnumbered once in a while... ever consider that's what it feels like to a black or hispanic person entered any one of the many businesses, malls, doctor's offices, etc., where they are the only white people? I've been the only white person at different places on different occasions... and yes, it does make you feel uncomfortable to be the outsider. To that, I say good. Think about how it feels on the other side of that fence, when you actually are the minority. As far as the obnoxious campaign commercials (and I'll agree, they're obnoxious on both sides and it disgusts me to see them), how about the one where they're talking about how "John Kerry and the Liberals in Congress" have a health care plan, including big buerocracy, lawyers, etc., etc., and you're doctor's there... somewhere... not really making the decisions... Well, how about private insurance? Doesn't private insurance dictate what procedures you can have under what conditions, what referrals you can get to go to specialists, even which docotrs and hospitals you can visit? My mom was extremely sick once, and had had septicemia (a severe blood infection) twice in the past two months. I mentioned this to the nurse, (an excellent nurse, by the way) who said that since my mom wasn't running a fever (the classic sign of infection) they couldn't culture her blood. Hospital policy. Now, the only problem with that is that people with autoimmune diseases and impaired immune systems can present without the classic signs, such as fever, and simply progress to the more severe stages of illness- in my mother's case, septic shock for the second time in a one-month span. But, the bottom line- money. Don't let anyone fool you that's only under the watch of government- because believe it or not (!!??) private businesses are also interested in slashing costs and upping profits. Imagine that. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Balladeer, first of all, let me begin by saying I don't know all the politics behind the flu shot vaccinations and the pharmeceutical companies, so I do agree that neither party should just leap to conclusions and put the blame on another here and the real matter is to see to it as many flu shots as possible find their way into childrne's hospitals and VA clinics. Now, about Christopher Reeve, again. As I've already said before, you really don't know Christopher Reeve unless you understand his politics. Christopher Reeve described himself as a liberal Democrat all his life. He protested the war in Vietnam. He went to Cornell and was fervently involved with environmental activism. First Amendment issues were quite important to him. He said specifically his main focus after his accident was "the quality of life for all disabled people and doing everything I can to help scientists make progress toward cures." Reeve left a lengthy message on Kerry's answering message just before he passed away. I think that really means something. Perhaps Reeve felt somewhere in his mind he was going to pass away shortly and was urgent in getting his message out to someone he trusted, and Kerry happened to be that person. Reeve WANTS Kerry to continue the struggle for funding stem cell research, for he believes it can find potential cures for many ailments, including spinal cord damage. What Edwards said I find has some potential truth to it. In a short-term scenario, conservative critics may think it's required we destroy life to create a cell, but in a long-term scenario, it'll help thousands to live. I think the sooner we get this all funded, the more possible it is those who struggle with these injuries and diseases can be cured. Bush was all over the place on that question during the second debate. He said, "I had to make the decision to destroy more life, so we continue to destroy life. I made the decision to balance science and ethics.". Before that, he said, "Embryonic stem-cell research requires the destruction of life to create a stem cell. I'm the first president ever to allow funding -- federal funding -- for embryonic stem-cell research." So, why not fund all lines? Imagine the possibilities, the answers that could be produced through this type of experimentation. I have faith indeed that those like Christopher Reeve could walk and cures can be found for Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and so many other diseases. How is Edwards misleading the American people in Frist's mind? How do you know it is false hope he is exhibiting unless you give further research a try first? Bush claimed himself as the first president ever to fund this research, so according to him this is a new type of research that we're only beginning to learn from and we have much yet to learn from it still. Reeve is close friends with Kerry. I believe he wants Kerry to continue to promote what he did and "make progress toward cures." Speaking of which, the polls I've seen don't suggest any real change whatsoever. Bush has had the lead among likely voters in virtually every poll, but among registered voters, Kerry is right up there with Bush when before the debates he was not, and among new registered voters, Kerry has an average lead of 11 points. But, most importantly, these polls can't measure passion, the impulse. I have a great feeling about November 2nd considering the impressive new registration numbers for Democrats in Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin and Iowa in particular. I consider a number of polls before the 2000 election showing Bush with a 15-point lead in Ohio just weeks before the election, and he only won the state by 3.5%. Ohio is a statistical dead heat right now, with Bush usually having just a slight lead in each one. The voting machines may do something, but other than that, I believe Kerry can pull this off. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Um....Mr. Reeves went into a coma the Thursday before he died. How he came out of it and was coherent enough to leave a long voice recording for Senator Kerry on that following Saturday is quite beyond me. Perhaps he was Superman all this time. When the liberal biased media heard that Kerry got the message left on Saturday while Reeves was in a coma from Thursday, they quickly expunged Reeves coma date so that Kerry could indeed have gotten that message left on Saturday. Gotta love revisionistic historians.  |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Thanks for the info, 'cat. It doesn't surprise me at all that Kerry would try to pull off something that sleazy. Kerry had to apologize to Cheney for his "lesbian daughter" comments. Today Theresa Heinz Kerry had to apologize to Laura Bush for saying she had never worked a day in her life, forgetting the fact that Laura had been a schoolteacher for 10 years. This...from an heiress. Yesterday a movie theater had to cancel the showing of "Stolen Honor" due to liberals threatening "civil disobedience" at the theater if it was shown, lawyers tried to sue bookstores for displaying Unfit For Cammand, lawyers tried to block swift boat ads from network television. Did anyone see the Republicans try to take any action against Fahrenheit 911 when it came out? Anyone see them try to have ads blocked? Any lawsuit threatening concerning the many anti-Bush books that came out? No, it has only been the Democrats who have resorted to such tactics...that should say something about the class Kerry and cohorts have. Noah, you can believe me when I tell you I am in complete agreement with you on the stem cell research issue. I mentioned here months ago that I disagree with Bush completely on the subject. That does not excuse the fact that Edward's comment was cheap. He said it in such a way that gave the impression that Reeve or others like him could be walking now if it weren't for Bush, which is ridiculous and that's what the building false hopes accusation came from. As you will know it could take years or decades for that to happen, if ever. Yes, we must try but to give the people suffering now the hope that, without Bush to block the research, they may be walking soon is cruel and inhumane. He sent a message while in a coma?? That's a new one...almost beats out Gore inventing the Internet! |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news - web sites)'s interim government complained Wednesday that the United Nations (news - web sites) isn't doing enough to help prepare for January elections, saying the organization has sent fewer electoral workers than it did when tiny East Timor (news - web sites) voted to secede from Indonesia. The elected assembly is to draft a new constitution in a major step toward democratic rule after decades of tyranny and military occupation. But Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari complained that the United Nations has not sent enough election experts to help prepare for the balloting. "It is unfortunate that the contribution and participation of U.N. employees in this process is not up to expectations," Zebari told reporters. He said the number of U.N. workers expected to help in the election was far smaller than the 300 workers the United Nations sent for the 1999 independence referendum in East Timor. "Judging by the size of the process in Iraq and its complexity, we definitely need a larger U.N. presence in Iraq, at least to bestow trust upon the electoral process," Zebari said. Annan said Tuesday in London that he had sought to form a U.N. brigade to guard U.N. workers and facilities so more staffers could be sent in, but complained he had gotten no offers of troops. U.N. officials in New York said Wednesday that Fiji was the only nation to respond to Annan's request and would send 130 soldiers to Iraq next month to protect senior staff and U.N. offices. Spokesman Marie Okabe said U.N. officials also were talking with the U.S.-led coalition about providing troops to protect the perimeter of U.N. facilities and U.N. staffers working outside the U.N. offices in Baghdad. Thank God for Fiji otherwise this organization that wanted to take over after the fall of Hussein's regime would appear to have no backbone at all.....gotten too rich and fat from all that food for oil money, I guess.... |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Oh, I suppose it was actually Thursday Reeve gave Kerry the message. OK, my corrections there on my part. However, it doesn't change the fact Reeve still left a message for Kerry and that is that, or change what Reeve stood up for much of his life as an activist. That should say enough. Ooohhhhhh...I'm so glad someone decided to bring up Teresa Heinz Kerry here. Predictable. I am just astonished at the reaction made over what she said. In that USA Today interview, she was asked if she'd be any different from Laura Bush as a First Lady! And she said the following: "Well, you know, I don't know Laura Bush. But she seems to be calm, and she has a sparkle in her eye, which is good. But I don't know that she's ever had a real job — I mean, since she's been grown up. So her experience and her validation comes from important things, but different things." The first thing I noticed some whining about was, "Oh no, Teresa doesn't think teaching is a real job!" and every teacher should feel offended. Not ONCE in either the context of the question or her response is "teacher" even close to being mentioned. Teresa clearly was simply unaware of what Laura has done, like being a teacher for nearly a decade. She just didn't know. And, once she did, she immediately came out and said, "I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady, and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past." Secondly, those like Karen Hughes ridiculously overreacted. Oh sure, Teresa's words were a sinister "mind-set that seeks to divide women based on who works at home and who works outside the home." I find that laughable. Oh, by the way Balladeer, yes, in fact there were many Republicans who attempted to boycott "Fahrenheit 9/11". They were under the name "Move America Forward", headed by Howard Kaloogian. They were encouraging a mass phone call campaign to order all local theaters to blacklist or not to show the film a week before its release. They are also the ones who've produced "Celsius 41.11", one of six anti-Moore productions. I agree that it was wrong for your local theater not to premiere "Stolen Honor". I do believe it should have the right to be featured there. Now, as far as the Sinclair issue is concerned, the problem I had with their 62 stations originally planning to air that before deciding instead to air on 40 of its stations "A POW Story: Politics, Pressure and the Media," which features various clips from the documentary but features clips from various other documentaries, was not so much simply airing it, but calling it "news" when it clearly isn't. It's based on events 33 years old and is unilateral political propaganda intended to defame Kerry. As for the new airing Sinclair is planning in their pre-empted schedule, here's what the corporate spokesman had to say about "A POW Story": "The news special will focus in part on the use of documentaries and other media to influence voting, which emerged during the 2004 political campaigns, as well as on the content of certain of these documentaries," a corporate statement said. "The program will also examine the role of the media in filtering the information contained in these documentaries, allegations of media bias by media organizations that ignore or filter legitimate news and the attempts by candidates and other organizations to influence media coverage." I hope, of course, they include themselves in this. After all, Sinclair Broadcasting originally considered this partisan propaganda slander "news". While we're talking about apologies, I'm still waiting to hear the vice president of Sinclair apologize for saying "The networks are acting like Holocaust deniers and pretending these people (the POWs) don't exist. It would be irresponsible to ignore them." That I find to be far more offensive than anything on either side of the campaign trail. Oh yeah, and if Kerry apologized to Mary, Dick Cheney himself should be apologizing to to his daughter for bringing her up in the first place. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you But if the bright lights don't receive you You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20 |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
quote: Nah, we caught it http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1097808091725_93217291/?hub=Health I'd like to thank a Pfizer VP of marketing for standing up for attacking the 'unsafe' myth, (though it'll cost him his job) and Bill Maher "The biggest lie this year about a foreign country, I think, was when during the Medicare debate, people kept saying, well, the seniors want to get their drugs from Canada. But we have to stop that. Even though they're cheaper up there. We have to stop that from going on because, you know what, it's not safe. Yes, Canadian drugs, that's right. It is a third world country.(rolls eyes)" ~Bill Maher on reimportation |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Sorry, Noah, but I don't entirely disagree with him. The networks have a good track record for turning a blind eye toward anything detrimental to Kerry. They have not discussed his record (or non-record) at all, did not mention that the 56 bills he said he passed were fictional as the Congressional record clearly shows, nothing about his dubious war record, nothing about how he "forgot" to take his medals with him during the celebration of throwing them away and still has them displayed in his home, have not touched his voting record, which goes against everything he is preaching now.....and a myriad of other points that they would jump on with glee were Kerry the Republican candidate. CLinton got the same courtesy so it's nothing new. As far as la femme Kerry is concerned, obviously she didn't know. The point is she SHOULD have taken the time to know before issuing such a brainless statement....but that would be expecting a lot from her, I suppose. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I guess you misunderstood me, Noah. Reeve dies on Sunday, October 10. Kerry gives speech on Monday, October 11, about Reeve and how Reeve left him a long voice message that Saturday, October 9. Kerry didn't know at the time that Reeve had been in a coma since that prior Thursday, October 7. His spin people and the media connections, or should I say people in cable news who are working directly for the Kerry campaign, quickly saw the gaff and took steps to amend the timeframe so the story would be true. As the DNC voting manual adroitly states, win at any cost. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Raph, I think the Canadians SHOULD poke fun at the comparison. It's another point that I disagree with Bush over. We use Canadian drugs in my household. To change the subject just a tad, a local talk show today was referring to a cartoon that had appeared in a Canadian newspaper. Two convicts were in a prison cell. One asked the other "What are you in for?" The prisoner responded "Murder. I beat my wife to death with baseball bat. How about you?" The other replied, "Hip replacement." They clarified that if you were American you would not get it. Seems that in Canada there is a 52 week wait for those needing hip replacements. Illegal hip replacement clinics have sprung up, punishable with imprisonment for doctors or patients caught there. Rich Canadians cross the border to have it done in the US. Less financially sound souls can either wait in pain for a year or risk breaking the law at the "illegal" clinics. I guess health care everywhere could use a little "tweaking" once in a while |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Kerry has every right to be brought to criticism about his Senate record these past twenty years, as does Bush's record these past four years. (Hey, I don't think I've heard anything about Bush's record as Governor of Texas, by the way! ).The fact is, Bush is spending so much time trying to get last minute votes by using the whole "Kerry is the most liberal senator" or "That's a lot even for a senator from Massachusetts" spin. Yeah...in 2003...when Kerry was beginning to run in the primaries and in preparation didn't have the time to attend 37 of the 62 votes on which this ranking was based by The National Journal. But the whole label is a lie. The Journal actually ranks him the 11th most liberal senator. And even if he was ranked #1, I would wish for him to be more liberal than he is now, like the 1971 Kerry who protested the Vietnam War. He really isn't that far from the center, and Bush is playing this dirty game of turning "liberal" into a foul word. Speaking of bills, both Bush and Kerry were wrong on how many Kerry has passed. Bush said he wrote 300 and passed only five. Kerry said he passed 56 individual bills he wrote himself, which include 24 resolutions not enforced by law. The correct answer passed and made law is actually eleven. They include the following: (Source: FactCheck.org) *********************************** * S.791: Authorizes $53 million over four years to provide grants to woman-owned small businesses. (1999) S.1206: Names a federal building in Waltham, Massachusetts after Frederick C. Murphy, who was killed in action during World War II and awarded (posthumously) the Medal of Honor. (1994) S.1636: A save-the-dolphins measure aiming "to improve the program to reduce the incidental taking of marine mammals during the course of commercial fishing operations." (1994) S.1563: Funding the National Sea Grant College Program, which supports university-based research, public education, and other projects "to promote better understanding, conservation and use of America’s coastal resources." (1991) S.423: Granting a visa and admission to the U.S. as a permanent resident to Kil Joon Yu Callahan. (1987) H.R.1900 (S.300): Awarded a congressional gold medal to Jackie Robinson (posthumously), and called for a national day of recognition. (2003) H.R.1860 (S.856): Increased the maximum research grants for small businesses from $500,000 to $750,000 under the Small Business Technology Transfer Program. (2001) S.J.Res.158: To make the week of Oct. 22 – Oct. 28, 1989 "World Population Awareness Week." (1989) S.J.Res.160: To renew "World Population Awareness Week" for 1991. (1991) S.J.Res.318: To make Nov. 13, 1992 "Vietnam Veterans Memorial 10th Anniversary Day." (1992) S.J.Res.337: To make Sept. 18, 1992 "National POW/MIA Recognition Day." (1992) ************************************ Anyone has the right to keep analyzing kerry's record, but what's also important is unraveling Bush's record these past four years, which I find even more embarrassing myself. I actually wish Kerry could do more than he is in exposing that. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
The claim is 56 and the actual count is 11? Would you call that a little more than a minor discrepancy, Noah? Those 11 include... Naming a federal building Granting a visa to an individual Calling for a Jackie Robinson Day Creating a World population Awareness Week Renewing a World Population Awareness Week Naming a day for Viet Nam vets Naming a day for POW/MIA's Some real heavy stuff there. See anything there about health care, tax relief for the middle class, or any of the other things he claims to now have all the answers for? Nothing....the record is pathetic for a 20 year career and this is the man in whose hands you would place the economy and safety of the United States? I'm not sure the Democrats could have picked anyone less qualified to represent them....he was an interesting choice. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
That's the crux, Noah. Most voters against Bush are just that: against Bush. They really don't care who the Democratic opponet is, they just want Bush out due to his, primarily, stealing the office from Gore. Everything else is window dressing. And yes, I say stealing in the worst sense: theft, usurper, false. They don't care who's in office, so long as it isn't Bush. So Kerry has become the Default Candidate, and voters still don't know a lot about Kerry, as he really hasn't said much about his Senate record, unless he's under attack by Bush. In most Presidential contest, the candidates display their record. In this one, only Bush has spoken of his. Kerry has briefly, but only under duress. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Are you kidding? But I guess this is the world as seen through the prism of a Bush supporter. The last four years of mistake after mistake, of imbecilic rhetoric, outright lies, secrecy, distortion, corruption, denial of evidence, fantasyland tours and vacations just don't matter. He's a nice guy. Have you at least gotten it though your skull that I think Kerry would make a good president? There are a few of us who through fact after fact about the problems of the last four years, Bush supporters never talk about the record, they talk about character. He's a nice guy. The only possible reason we could be against Bush is that we don't like him? God, give me a break and look in a mirror. No, look at the last four years. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46554-2004Oct19.html quote: And you want this guy for another four years? Kerry listens and engages people all the time. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
quote: I agree wholeheartedly, thanks to the last administration things are a mess here in Ontario. To be fair it's a combination of both provincial and Federal governments tooling with a good thing. And while coverage is still top notch, waiting times for surgeries, MRIs and even ERs is getting ridiculous and has to be addressed. Rich and poor have been forced to cross the border for certain operations, they just have healthcare foot the bill later, thats the beauty of canadian health care, as a citizen you're covered wherever you go. There was a huge summit a few weeks ago between the Federal and Provincial governments but all I heard was alot of static and another reason Liberals have earned the moniker 'Fiberals' here. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Vote Kerry, I dare ya A little humourhttp://wearabledissent.com/101/floridaballot.html# lmao |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
Balladeer, the Democrats didn't just flat-out choose Kerry. The Iowa and New Hampshire caucuses chose Kerry. From the beginning, progressives and liberals just wanted someone with the best shot at defeating Bush this November. Dean was the favorite for quite a while, but apparently Kerry's experience in town hall speeches helped him come up on top in Iowa, and it was basically there the whole ABB bandwagon launched off. Had Kucinich won in Iowa, he would be the Democratic candidate now. Had Dean won, he would be the Democratic candidate now. The fact is, the whole primary system is uneven and unfair, and needs to be reformed so each primary matters. Perhaps it was just because of the passion to have a change of leadership come November that helped Kerry to conquer virtually every state, but in either way we need a more democratic form of primary. (I voted Kucinich in the Colorado caucus, by the way! )I don't find Kerry's record remarkable or majestic, but I'd personally certainly prefer him over another four years with Bush. Bush's record in comparison is far more unsatisfactory than Kerry's, with a net loss in job creation, the worst environmental record ever, health care net loss, and, most infamously of all, credited for taking us into another senseless war America cannot win. Alicat, I'd have to disagree with you on your reasoning to why most voters against Bush want the Democratic opponent to win. I absolutely agree Bush stole 2000 and have a case to support that argument, but, after all, over 70% of Americans after 9/11 believed Bush, actually were deceived into thinking Saddam attacked us and trusted Bush was doing just what he had to do to defend America. But, the truth behind this senseless war continues to come out and in one poll I've even seen Bush's approval rating at one of its lowest levels yet: 44%. Millions want Bush out not necessarily because he is an unofficial president anyway and squandered the previous election, but because they feel he has squandered America. Bush said before, "I am a war president!". He has his own idea of what spreading freedom and peace to the world is, and that's OK, after all, millions believe his definition of freedom. All I, and millions of fellow progressives, say in response is just what Abbie Hoffman said during Vietnam: "Peace is a very complicated concept. When the lion gobbles up the lamb and wipes his lips, then there's peace. Well, I ain't for that peace at all." Kerry may not be as anti-war as I am, but there is a distinction between him and Bush. Kerry recognizes this is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time, realizes the consequences in result of this, and wants to begin getting our young men and wome out of there six months into his first term if elected and have them all out of Iraq by the end of his first term if elected. Bush refuses to acknowledge his error of judgement, however, and his stubborn demeanor continues to dig us deeper into this albatross. I wish we could have someone like Kucinich or Cobb or Winona LaDuke currently in Kerry's place, but, even Kerry is worth my vote over Bush. By the way, I have already voted and proudly mailed off my ballot Tuesday, yay! I voted in Kerry for President, of course, plus Teresa Keane, a Green, for U.S Senate, two Freedom Socialists, plus, where no alternative candidates were available, Democrats elsewhere except for two Republicans in Districts 31 and 45, whose moderate positions seemed to agree with me better than those particular Democrats' mainstream positions. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/21/laura.teresa/index.html Laura Bush brushes aside Heinz Kerry's remarks 'She didn't have to apologize. I know how tough it is.' Thursday, October 21, 2004 Posted: 3:40 PM EDT (1940 GMT) Laura Bush speaks on Thursday with citizens in New London, New Hampshire, on a campaign stop. LEBANON, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Laura Bush on Thursday brushed off comments about her work experience that were made by Teresa Heinz Kerry, who told USA Today she was unsure if Bush had ever held a "real job." Asked about Heinz Kerry's apology Wednesday for what she said, Bush responded, "It didn't matter to me. It didn't hurt my feelings. It was perfectly all right that she apologized. She didn't have to apologize. I know how tough it is. And actually I know those trick questions." Bush talked to reporters outside the Lebanon Opera House in Lebanon, New Hampshire, as she prepared to give a speech. Heinz Kerry said Wednesday she was "sincerely sorry" for making the comments during an interview that appeared in Wednesday's USA Today. (Heinz Kerry apologizes for remark) "I had forgotten that Mrs. Bush had worked as a school teacher and librarian, and there couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children," Heinz Kerry said. "As someone who has been both a full-time mom and full-time in workforce, I know we all have valuable experiences that shape who we are. "I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady, and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past." Laura Bush was a teacher and librarian in Texas from 1968 to 1977. Heinz Kerry made the comments to the newspaper when asked about the differences between the first lady and her. "Well, you know, I don't know Laura Bush. But she seems to be calm, and she has a sparkle in her eye, which is good. But I don't know that she's ever had a real job -- I mean, since she's been grown up. So her experience and her validation comes from important things, but different things." Born in Mozambique, Heinz Kerry worked for the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations in the 1960s when she moved to the United States. She has also been the chairman of The Howard Heinz Endowment and the Heinz Family Philanthropies since her first husband, Sen. John Heinz, died in a plane crash in 1991. Heinz Kerry has three sons and two step-daughters. The first lady has two daughters. CNN's Silvio Carrillo contributed to this report." ******************************** See now, Teresa's words even sounded innocent to Laura Bush herself. I say we make this a lesson and from here on when someone says something on the campaign trail, we don't just leap to conclusions and distort the tone of the words unless it is a direct insult or ridicule, etc. I think the problem with how everyone like Karen Hughes overreacted to what she said was that they disected the quote and heard out solely the "real job" part when the rest of the quotation was said in a positive light, like the "gleam in her eye", etc. It can be understood how when one part sounds blunt the quotation in whole sounds blunt. Just overreacting I believe here. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I've already voted as well. Bush, then tossups between Democrats and Republicans whom I thought would do the best job based on their blurb in the Voting Guide we get here which lists all candidates for various positions, their photo, if they participated in state/federal funding, district if State, and a short biography/resume. The main reason I did not vote for any Libertarians was that they did not provide a photo or the bio/resume, so I have no idea what they wanted to bring to their position. Two Dems for the state commerce commission blew their chance with me for using scare tactics in a mail vote-for-me message. And a Rep judge blew it for mishandling several court cases...judges CANNOT influence juries with whether or not someone is a flight risk, period. |
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A Romantic Heart Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-03
Posts 5496Forever In Your Heart |
After viewing the third debate....My favorite part was the question to both Kerry and Bush about their wives. From both Bush and Kerry I was under the impression that the women rule their households. What America should also consider that it isn't just a man that you are putting into office as president, but a team....husband and WIFE. I liked Bush's answer and I think Mrs. Bush is a very smart, caring and classy lady to be representing women of America.(And her reaction to Teresas negitive comment(which shows us Teresas character)showed that Mrs. Bush is a very patient, forgiving, intelligent lady who handled the situation maturely and she didn't have to stoop that low or get on Teresas level. I don't know about you....but I would rather have a classy, smart, caring first lady. Than a loud, filthy mouth spoiled rich brat who always gets her way.... Ladies and gentlemen, she would be running our country....not Kerry! especially since he is more liberal....she would love to run our country like she runs the Heniz company. Sorry but America means more than a bottle of ketchup to me...(There is alot of difference between running a country and producing ketchup). One more thing....If a man can run his own household right, look at the children, look at his relationship to his wife, his parents. The proof is in the pudding...if he can run his household and be a great father, a faithful husband, etc...then he be faithful to your country, someone you can trust, believe in and who stands on their word, their promises, someone you can depend on to follow through with those promises...not just blow empty air to fill us up and make us feel warm and happy for a season and then have our balloon burst. I like how Bush says what he thinks, it seems more real and honest not fake or written like a news report or a book.He seems to be what you see is what you get, it is all out there for you to see, where as with Kerry it is like pulling a string on the back of a Ken Doll....I am sorry but even his face looks sneaky, like one of those sneaky car salesmen. Writing poety and stories myself, I know how words can be so full of fluff, so manipulating. Prepared speeches are just that... I would prefer someone who speaks from their heart, says what is on their mind, even if it doesn't sound perfect or if they make a mistake from time to time...(making a mistake and right out attacking someone personally is two different things) To me I have noticed Kerrys ads(speeches in debates) more attacking.."Hey let me get the attention off of me from what I can(promise) ....to look at Bush and how bad he is...." (this will stall them long enough so I can get into the White House....I have a plan...I plan....even though we never see or hear the plan. Even Jesus was against this in the bible...Get the beam out of your own eye before getting the splinter out of your brothers... I was always a democratic voter...until I voted Clinton in, then I become a republican...I am not looking at parties, but the men and their character, and who I would trust and believe in...just like a marriage. George Bush is someone who I feel as a daughter I could trust and believe in, I believe he and Laura have Americas best interest at heart. Bush cannot be blamed, he came into a position that had leftovers and mistakes covered up by Clintons lies and mistakes.Clinton was an actor a front man, full of air and fluff.Then after he left, all the trash was not taken out it was swept under the rugs... We cannot allow any of our men and women who have died in this war to be dishonored, they died for what they believed in, for what they held was right, and we as a country, a world must also believe as they do, we must support our men and women, honor their brave hearts....when we say that the war was wrong, etc... we are disgraceing those who are there now, and the ones who have died for the reason they held to in their hearts. I don't care what the President says that the war is for, or what anyone one says..it all comes down to the soldiers, to what they believe in, in freedom, in America. They are out there in my place....they are doing this for me....for each of us who get to sleep in a nice bed and get up with all our comforts , our families each day. Bush did what he had to with 9/11, What would you have done or done differently? To be honest, I was so upset and mad(as most of us were)...I was worried why we waited so late to attack and send troops... We are not wimps....we are America, the brave, the strong, united we need to stand. I say bring-on the debates between the Wives....Let Laura and Teresa debate it out..behind every good man is a good woman.Taking that to heart, within that is your answer America. Just wanted to share my thoughts and feelings on the topic. ~ARH |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
ARH, let's back up a little here. What was "negative" about Teresa's comment? It was a positive comment. She said she has a sparkle in her eye. She said she's calm, and her experience and validation come from important things. And if you're judging her comment solely by "real job", even though I never found that blunt to begin with, she immediately did the classy thing and apologized anyway before Laura Bush came out and said no apology was necessary. I absolutely agree Laura Bush is a wonderful First Lady. She is a woman with a good heart, a deep sense of character, and strong integrity. I have much respect for her teaching in the past, and what she does now for her own foundation for public libraries, continuing to promote Ready to Read, Ready to Learn, her contributions to the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute, and being the heart and soul of launching the National Book Festival in Washington, D.C. Teresa Heinz Kerry would also make a wonderful First Lady in my opinion. Her life story is very inspiring, from how she grew up in Mozambique, learned five languages, travelling around the world studying, then moving into the United States and worked with the United Nations before marrying John Heinz, and since the tragic plane crash on their 25th anniversary, has lead the Howard Heinz Endowment and the Heinz Family Philanthropies. Teresa I believe also endows the qualities and ethics of a great First Lady. She's done a lot for improving education and protecting the environment. She established the Women's Institute for a Secure Retirement in 1996. She won the Albert Schweitzer Gold Medal for Humanitarianism. She gave $20 million to build the H. John Heinz III Center for Science, Economics and the Environment. Teresa has the heart, the experience, and the strength to be America's next First Lady. Sometimes, indeed she has some sass in her convictions, but it is harmless and I think the strength of ones convictions make one human. We all have some sass to go around! As far as your latter point is concerned, indeed the "what you see is what you get" approach is effective and important. Then again, during the debates, especially the first and final ones, Bush certainly wasn't the same Bush you see out on the campaign trail, who to many is like everyone's friendly neighbor to the south, with a strong sense of street smart. He had long five-second pauses often, wore a nervous face, and was inarticulate. That ALSO means something. It struck me that Bush is no real visionary, and I feel personally Bush is also pulled by a string, maybe from Karl Rove, I don't know. But I believe Kerry really knows what he is talking about. He has the facts, he has deep arguments, but he was also human. He looked into the camera to say he will not sign any piece of legislation that increases taxes for families below an income of 200K. He was just as human as Bush was on that final question in Debate Three when he admitted, "marrying up", telling of his late mother's final words to him, and expressing his faith. I believe Kerry not only knows much of what he talks about, he feels much of what he talks about. Clinton indeed made some great errors, such as the Welfare Reform Act and the Telecommunications Act for example, but this does not excuse Bush from blame. He is responsible for taking us into a war we cannot win with his bad judgement and impatience, which has costed the lives of about 1,100 of our young men and women and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. His bad decisions are responsible for the first net loss in jobs in 72 years. His bad decisions are responsible for the worst environmental record in any presidency in American history. His bad decisions are responsible in part for assault weapons back on the streets, rights of privacy and police brutality under the Patriot Act, more being put into poverty than brought out of it, etc. Bush can be blamed. And you SHOULD care about what Bush says about the war. Would you just keep silent every time any president decides to invade another country and simply say, "It all comes down to the soldiers!"? Most worldwide are saing the world is more dangerous and less safe because of this war. Shouldn't this send a signal to our troops? Shouldn't this sound a signal to every family in America and worldwide? I agree just as much as you do that we should all get to sleep in a nice bed and get up with our families each day in comfort, where we shouldn't have to be afraid. Where we disagree is how we should have went about resolving the conflict after 9/11. I'd tell you exactly what I'd do differently. First and most importantly, NOT invade Iraq. I believe peace is non-violent in true definition. I'm not for that peace where the lion feasts on the lamb and wipes his lips like Abbie Hoffman said before. Bush's stump dialogue on "spreading freedom across the globe" is just a euphemistic, smokescreen cover-up of a semi-imperialistic to imperialistic campaign to occupy and reform the patterns of living or ways of life that do not agree with our ways of living. Secondly, I believe what many fail to realize is takes terrorizing someone to make a terrorist. Terrorism is a psychological disease, and fighting fire with fire I believe only infuriates the problem. We've got to mediate the flame, understand the psyche of terrorism, and allow the effort and time to listen and understand where these terrorists came from and what drove them to their ways of terrorism. Get to the history of it. They may very well have been terrorized themselves, and it is love that will conquer hatred. Finally, education. And not a unilateral type of education either, just to promote the ethics and morals of non-violence and to respect and understand diversity of cultures and religions worldwide. A recent poll said 25% of U.S citizens have negative portrayed stereotypes of Muslims. We've got to solve this problem and end the increasing furor of stereotype images that can damage relationships. Finally, ARH, I absolutely agree with you on the need for presidential candidate wives debates. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "You'll find something that's enough to keep you |
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