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Poet deVine
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since 1999-05-26
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Hurricane Alley

0 posted 2000-06-10 05:55 PM


Is there such a thing as too much imagery? Either in a poem or in prose...?  Hm?

© Copyright 2000 Poet deVine - All Rights Reserved
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
1 posted 2000-06-11 05:05 AM


I would have to say ABSOLUTELY Sharon.

Just like anything else (except Mountain Dew and one other thing I won't mention...LOL) excessiveness is bad.

However, "too much" can mean pretty much anything. I think it would definitely have to depend on the piece, the desired mood, the author, the moon's alignment in the sky...LOL There are probably a ton of things, I would think, which affect how much would actually be "too" much. Obviously if you're going for a spartan feel, sparse imagery is desired. However, if you want the reader to feel like they're part of it, then more would be called for.

As to how to delineate that point... tough call. I know personally that some of the authors I've read (this is mostly for prose here although certainly it could be applicable to poetry as well) that use a lot of imagery have a tendancy to lose my interest quickly. I don't want them to fill in all the gaps. I want enough left open so that my imagination can personalize the characters/settings/actions. If they spell everything out (for example, Terry Goodkind's "Temple Of The Winds." He takes almost a page and a half to describe the main character's outfit.) I start skipping ahead. I certainly want to know the layout and feel of the place, etc., but I also want action, emotions, mystery, suspense...

I think that goes for poetry as well. If you bombard the reader with a long description of imagery, they will probably forget what the original point was in the first point. I've fallen prey to that myself more than once. I get caught up in the "flowery" descriptions and realize later that if one doesn't know what I'm talking about, they probably forgot in the middle of my "pretty" words.  

Anyway, I hope I'm not too far off-base as far my opinion of the answer to your question!  

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

2 posted 2000-06-11 07:26 AM


Ok well, as Chris is just way off base here, I've come to save the day (or night...hmmm).

Actually no, I (hack...h.h.hack...ark...splutter) agree.

Imagery needs to be finely balanced among the other elements of a piece of writing.

Obviously it needs always feature to some degree - for it provides the frame for the visual screen a reader has in their mind.

But...a writer never wants to lead a reader into a 'maze' if you will.

Over-describing - blerk...cardinal crime, and actually a sign of a weak author IMHO.

Adding to C's point on sparse imagery - a lot of my poetry is tending that way. In fact, here is the shortest poem I have ever written:

Watch

My watch is broken
       it sits at 3 o’clock
  with no ticks
              no jaunty
spin of seconds
all silence
        and disabled hands
immortal


There is some imagery here of course...but it is remote, and merely underscores the lack of motion. The key word is of course immortal, which is paradoxical...any more imagery and I would have destroyed the effect completely.

As far as prose is concerned I also think many authors who have weak characters overcompensate through imagery - and too much imagery is certainly a detraction from not only characters but plot.

Personally two authors stand out for me in this way:

Raymond E Feist. With Janny he is fantastic, but on his own...  

And Jean M Auel - good heavens...that women needs to learn that not every little step of inventive wonder from an evolving humankind, no matter how wonderful, needs to be explained in detail...

That's it from me...and only cause I have to go sleep soon...

K


Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
3 posted 2000-06-18 02:27 AM


And everyone notices how Kamla once again concedes that I am, after all, right once more.  
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

4 posted 2000-06-18 02:34 AM


And everyone notices also how happy that makes Chris, so obviously it means he doesn't really get agreed with that often...

Poor guy.


Temptress
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since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136
Mobile, AL
5 posted 2000-06-18 02:56 AM


Yes. I believe there can be too much imagery, which is why I do not write stories and prose very well.  I can never place the correct amount in them. Its either too much or too little. Some books I've tried to read will get put down within the first few pages if there are too many.

Nothing can deter a poet, for he is actuated by pure love. Who can predict his comings and goings? "Thoreau"



Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
6 posted 2000-06-18 03:47 AM


Kamla's just jealous everyone... she seems to get all huffy that way every time I prove her wrong.

Temptress - Perhaps that is something you could work on. I've a suggestion. Why don't you try, if you're willing of course! You can post it in here and perhaps all of us can help make suggestions. It could be a good learning experience for all of us!

Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 2000-04-06
Posts 10263

7 posted 2000-06-19 09:02 AM


Oh let me at this one.
I love imagery BUT I believe it has to be grounded in reality.
I'm just learning this, by the way, and believe me I have a lot to learn.
I would like to see and know the poets on this forum can improve and succeed and God knows I have a long way to go.
Imagery can be most certainly, overdone. Flood a poem with too much of it and the reader becomes confused, and lost.
reality and imagery together in a balance make for a good poem, in my opinion.

Kathleen

"How do I love thee? Let
me count the ways.
I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of Being and ideal Grace." Elizabeth Barrett Browning



Ron
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since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669
Michigan, US
8 posted 2000-06-19 09:35 AM


Editor's often call it the "sunset syndrome," and consider it the hallmark of a fledgling author. The writer gets so entranced with describing something beautifully, they forget what their real goal is. I'm going to disagree with everyone here, and state unequivocally (IMHO) there is no such thing as too much imagery.

There is, however, inappropriate imagery.

The only goal of a writer is to communicate. A thought, a feeling, a Truth about our humanity. One of our most powerful tools for doing that is imagery. It doesn't matter if the imagery spans page after page, as long as it is furthering our goal and the reader is learning - she will continue to read. But if the imagery doesn't communicate our central theme, if it's there just because "it's pretty," no matter how short the passage might be, the reader is going to lose interest. Imagery for its own sake never works.

Like all rules, of course, you'll find exceptions - usually by writers so powerful they could break a hundred rules and we'd still read them (Melville immediately comes to mind). But most of us, at some point in the editing process, are faced with a very critical question, one that can make or break our future as a writer. Does this passage communicate and further my goal? Or is it just real pretty?

Poet deVine
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Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612
Hurricane Alley
9 posted 2000-06-19 09:53 AM


Hey Moderators!!! Why not give us a challenge...tell us to describe something and let us write it..then we can talk about the use of imagery..too much..not enough...would that be ok? It might be fun!  
Dusk Treader
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Senior Member
since 1999-06-18
Posts 1187
St. Paul, MN
10 posted 2000-06-19 04:18 PM


My name is Abrahm Simons... I believe I suffer from "Sunset Syndrome."  

The help group choruses, "Hi Abrahm!"

LOL, anyways... I like your idea Sharon, sounds like a fun and learning experience...


Abrahm Simons

"Keep on dreamin' boy 'cause when you stop dreaming it's time to die" - Blind Melon

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

11 posted 2000-06-19 06:03 PM


On to it Sharon...sounds goooooooood...

K

Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

12 posted 2000-06-19 06:05 PM


Oh, did I mention: Sadly Chris is so insecure that he just had to throw that in... tchtch...
Nan
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since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA
13 posted 2000-06-19 10:18 PM


...and I suffer from "Sunshine" syndrome...
Temptress
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Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136
Mobile, AL
14 posted 2000-06-20 02:52 AM


Christopher:
Thanks for e-mailing this link to me so I could continue to read it. I think Sharon is right. Someone suggest something, and I'll TRY it.  It may be a few days before I can check this again too.


Nothing can deter a poet, for he is actuated by pure love. Who can predict his comings and goings? "Thoreau"



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