Do I know how to ramble or what?

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Christopher

Moderator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-08-02

Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration

0 posted 2000-02-12 08:26 PM

Craig said-

quote:
Can’t Spell Forum?

    Yes, I think this is a very good place to explore the problems of misspelling! It’s a well known fact that the public schooling -in the United States at least- is woefully inadequate. It is a sad but common story to hear of students “passing” their classes and leaving the educational environment with sometimes not even enough knowledge to read. I have known 20-year old people who could do no more than write their name... and that through repetition rather than “learning.”

    Ok, by now you’re probably saying, “What’s the point Christopher?”

    My point is simple.

    Many of the people here may be spelling words incorrectly and using poor grammar simply because they weren’t taught any better. Perhaps it’s because while in school they chose not to take advantage of the opportunity to learn. Perhaps it’s because the ratio of students to teachers is a sad figure, with the students outnumbering the teachers an average of 37 to one. Or perhaps it’s one of another hundred things. Who knows? I don’t. But I do know that old dogs CAN learn new tricks.

    For example: My mother, bless her soul, was married at fifteen. She dropped out of the eighth grade to be a wife and mother. She birthed and raised four children. When the first, me

, was in High School, she realized that there was much she’d missed out on. On her own, she decided that she didn’t want to spend the rest of her life not knowing. So, she went back to school. She took her G.E.D. and passed with flying colors. From there she has gone on to get her B.S. in Psychology and is currently pursuing her Masters.

    Point being that you don’t have to be a young dog to learn new tricks. It’s never too late to learn! For that matter, you can never learn too much! In truth, it doesn’t matter if you DO have a Master’s degree in English. Everyone can gain something from others. In another thread, Ron validly pointed out that we have a diverse group of nationalities here in the forum. I myself have learned that adding a “u,” or replacing a “z” with an “s” doesn’t necessarily make the word wrong. In several cases, the American English way of spelling it came about much later than the other way! Add to that a ton of words which are cultural specific, slang different, etc., and you have a whole slew of ideas/words which you can learn!

    Ron said-

quote:
I look forward to being educated.

    And here I think is the crux of the situation.

    I honestly believe that this forum should be a place where EVERYONE can learn. I’m not the teacher, Ron’s not the teacher. Nan’s not the teacher, (well she is, but that’s a different story.) We are ALL the teachers. My vision of this forum isn’t a set curriculum. It isn’t a matter of focusing only on spelling and grammar. It will certainly involve that, but not limit it to such.

    Granted, that’s how this got started. I opened my big mouth, (like I ever shut it,) and was complaining about poor grammar and spelling. Many people brought up a lot of valid points. Some of them pointed out that it may be just a matter of style. Others pointed out that it could be that to many, English is a second or even third language. Also, it was pointed out that the “errors” could stem from other things, such as dyslexia.

    Now the last thing we want to do is to hurt someone’s feelings or to give them false hope. It’s my hope that people will realize what this truly is... a chance to help better ourselves. It’s not an accredited educational system. We are, (for the most part,) not teachers by trade. We’re a bunch of people with various levels of experience, education and backgrounds here to try to broaden other’s horizons. As Ron said, I look forward to being educated. Now I have some learnin’ tucked away in my old cranial cavity which I hope to pass on to others. And so, I hope, do you.

    This is a voluntary forum. There is no mandate that you have to be here, that you have to learn or share. We’re here because we want to be. We want to be teachers and we want to be students. As teachers, we have the responsibility of learning. We also have the responsibility to be courteous and respectful to those who don’t want to learn, to those who have difficulties, to anyone who participates! As students, we have the responsibility to teach and to follow the same guidelines for courtesy!

    In my opinion, it’s a win-win situation. We can take from this what we put into it.

    So first, what I would like to see, is some areas where others would like to improve. Areas you’re curious about. Please don’t expect me to have all the answers, because you’ll be disappointed. If you ask anyone who knows me, they’ll tell you I know just enough to be dangerous. I know for a fact that I know a lot less than many of the other members here! But I will do my best to help answer a question, explore it, or just search for someone who does have the answer for us. I look forward to learning, and I hope you do too.

    Ok, for the time being, I think I’ve rambled on enough. This is a good example of what NOT to do when writing. Don’t bounce around all over the place and say nothing!

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited 02-12-2000).]

Denise

Moderator

Member Seraphic

since 1999-08-22

Posts 22648

1 posted 2000-02-14 09:13 AM

Hi Chris! This question isn't about spelling but about a point raised earlier in another thread...that contractions are not to be used in poetry. I don't recall having learned that in school (I was one who always paid attention, though what good it did, I don't know...hehehe). I've also read many poems that do have contractions in them. What I'd like to know is if there is a hard and fast rule about that or is it just a preference by a specific 'school' of poetry?
Thanks for your help!

Denise

Christopher

Moderator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-08-02

Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration

2 posted 2000-02-14 05:19 PM

Hey Denise!

I believe it was Brad who so aptly said:

quote:
Contractions aren't supposed to be used in this strange idea called 'formal writing'. It's a trick to force you to follow rules that anybody who knows writing doesn't follow.

Meaning that no, they're not supposed to be used in formal writing... But, as Ron said in another thread writers have been ignoring these "rules" for years! I think, (and please everyone, chime in with your own opinion here,) that writing - especially poetry - is a matter of personal style. How you write, what you write and in what form you write reflects you and your style. If you choose to use contractions, that reflects your style. If you choose to not capitalize, or not to punctuate, or whatever, it reflects your style.

Now, some may argue that the "rules" need to be followed no matter what. I disagree. I think it's wise to know the rules... But it's not necessarily imperative that you follow them. Variance in style is one of the reasons we enjoy so many different authors, be it poetry or prose. Each person has their own way of expressing themselves. I think it would get boring really quick, were everyone to have the same style, don't you?

So maybe it's a good idea to make sure you know the rules. After that, then you can make a decision whether or not to include contractions into your work!

Ron

Administrator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-05-19

Posts 8669
Michigan, US

3 posted 2000-02-14 06:39 PM

Some's ok, some's not, some's maybe just. But most ok not else chaos.

Translation Some rules should be broken in the interests of good communication. Some of those that should be broken can be broken with impunity, while some others will invariably cost you. Most of the rules, on the other hand, "can" be broken - but only rarely. And the price for breaking them is usually pretty high. Finally, many, many of the rules should never be broken because the cost is chaos. As, perhaps, the above might indicate.

IMHO

Christopher

Moderator

Member Rara Avis

since 1999-08-02

Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration

4 posted 2000-02-14 07:14 PM

OK Ron, and let's take this one step further and say that certain rules may be broken with less consequences, while others bear a heavier consequence.

As in perhaps the rule of contractions vs. rules pertaining to paragraphing.

I think that perhaps one is more likely to be able to "get away" with using conractions than one would be able to get away with a single, (or as I sometimes do, too many,) paragraphs.

What is your opinion on this?

Skyfyre
Senior Member

since 1999-08-15

Posts 1906
Sitting in Michael's Lap

5 posted 2000-02-15 01:08 AM

Um -- or what?

--Me

Full fathom five thy father lies,
Of his bones are coral made,
Those are pearls that were his eyes;
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange...

--William Shakespeare, from The Tempest

Tara Simms
Senior Member

since 1999-08-12

Posts 1244
Honea Path, SC USA

6 posted 2000-02-16 01:16 PM

Personally, one of the most important things I learned in English class (oh so many years ago) is to write in your own voice. I use contractions a lot in my writing because that's how I speak. When I attempt to write in formal English, it does't feel right. The flow isn't there.

I say we break the contraction rule! (Is this a democracy?)

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