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Proposed Forum Changes - Your Advice Is Needed
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Proposed Forum Changes - Your Advice Is Needed |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US 
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After spending quite a bit of time in Open during the past few days, it has become increasingly apparent to me we have a problem. Pages are loading slowly. In some cases, they're not loading at all if you use Netscape, or loading with things all out of whack if you use Internet Explorer. Some of the problems are minor or infrequent. Bad HTML, especially if a Member is trying to use tables, causes part of the problems. Embedded sound files that load and play whether you want them to or not is another. (Do you know how many people access the forums at work? You might as well write their boss a note… ) By far, though, the biggest problem centers around graphics. Every time you reply to a post, there's a short note that says, "Use graphics if you wish, but use them wisely and only when they significantly add to your message." Most people have chosen to ignore that advise. Some use images in the neighborhood of 80K (anything bigger then 30K is questionable), while others embed graphics from slow or unresponsive servers (I waited over 2 minutes this morning to load a small gif file from somewhere called plauder-smilies.de). Almost everyone, even when using moderate sized graphics, is using way too many of them. Does twenty identical smilies all in a row really add significantly to your message? Not all of our Members have fast, hot-off-the-assembly-line computers. Not everyone has a cable or DSL connection to the Internet. Most of our Members who live outside North America are paying for every single minute they are connected. Slow loading pages hurt everybody, but they hurt some much more than others. I'm sure none of us want pipTalk to become home only for the elite. I've spent most of the night modifying and testing new code to help alleviate some of these problems. I'm turning off certain HTML tags so they don't cause a problem. A <body> or <html> tag, for example, should be used exactly ONCE on a page and our software is already using them. Adding them in your post produces trashed pages and locks up browsers. I'm not turning off the TABLE tags. Yet. But I have the code ready should it continue to be a problem. I encourage everyone to use HTML to enhance the presentation of their poetry. But I also encourage everyone to learn it first. Sound files will no longer work. If you enter the code correctly, as an href container, they will turn into clickable links. If other Members want to hear the sound file, they can click the link. No one will be forced to listen just because they opened a thread. I have added code to completely disable images loaded from "certain" very slow or unresponsive servers. The one above, plauder-smilies.de, will no longer work. Others will be added as needed. Finally, I've added code to limit the number of images that can be included in a post, which will also include the number of smilies. And that's where the "advice" portion of this post comes into play. I tested my changes with the limit set to 5, which seemed both reasonable and fair to me. I was all set to load the new code this morning. Instead, I decided I should ask for your input before we actually make the change. How many images constitute a reasonable limitation? |
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| © Copyright 2001 Ron Carnell - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Krawdad Member Elite
since 2001-01-03
Posts 2597 |
Ron, I don't know enough to give advice on this. But, for what it is worth, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have used that many images. Five would seem plenty to me. I wonder if many others realize that they are taxing the system. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
In the body of a lengthy message, if one is trying to get a point across, but a "smiley" will work to enhance the intention, I think smileys are well used in that regard. Two or three all in a row tend to make me feel like you think I'm not getting the message, and I am  . See? If I had three "winks" there, you'd think I had an affliction.Small graphics are lovely. When they take over the page, it takes away from the poem. I know I've tried to keep mine "simple", using the KISS line of thinking for myself. I also believe this is a timely request by you, Ron, as we keep adding members and by growth alone, we can slow things down a bit. Thank you for this reminder to KISS.... [and for those that do not know what KISS means, it's what I've come across in my many years of learning acronyms for one's self, "Keep It Simple, Silly".... or words to that effect.] [This message has been edited by Sunshine (edited 12-17-2001).] |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
Hi Ron, Thanks for coming up with this. About embedded sound, it is a great idea. Regarding smilies... set a max. no. of x smilies in a post is a reasonable idea, I think. (value of x is to be determined, maybe different for different forums???) Regarding images: Do you think making another forum for 'visual poetry' with embedded gif files is advisable? I have seen this happen in other poetry sites, and that sems to work well. It is true that it takes ages to open a page with many image files or smilies. More on this maybe later. I have to rush. Thanks, once again Ron. Regards to all, Sudhir |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Even with a cable connection, it takes some time to load the graphics and sound files. Sometimes, I back out to go find another poem to read. I love graphics with poetry, but not on the forum. Smilies used with moderation are fine. I would even support a 'no link' decision if that would save time for the members with slower connections. Whatever is fair.  |
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suthern
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723Louisiana |
As someone whose home computer was the navigational device on the Mayflower and who really doesn't care to announce at work that I'm not working, I send humble thanks. *S* |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
5 sounds very fair to me. It also seems to me the larger jpegs load much slower than the gif's...perhaps a size limitation on the jpegs? |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
The number of times I've use more than 5 graphics per post is scarce to none... It all sounds fine to me...  |
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doreen peri Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812Virginia |
this is off topic to some degree but i've been meaning to say something for a long time about it.... there are many people lately who have been using artwork as an addition or illustration to their posted poem... Sometimes (often but not all the time) there is a reference to the artist and perhaps a link to the artist's website. Other times there isn't. Even if there is a link and a reference, almost always there is no indication about whether the artist has given permission for their work to be posted. Artwork is often copyrighted just like any other creation. As a graphic designer, if I found my work posted without my permission, I'm not sure how i'd react..... I'd probably just take it as a compliment as long as my name was referenced ...... Other artists might not feel that way, though, so since this thread discussion has to do with imbedded images and sound files, I thought I'd bring this up. It's very important to remember copyright issues when posting anything. |
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Irish Rose Member Patricius
since 2000-04-06
Posts 10263 |
This is very informative and all makes perfect sense. I, personally, am through with graphics, images and am just going to post the poem. I feel it's safer that way. Although, I have enjoyed the images available Kathleen (Kay) |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
Well since I am one of the "graphic sinners"*L* I would just like to say that I am always grateful to be enlightened...as Krawdad mentioned, I think its a matter of most of us dont understand or realize the technical side of all this that is like second skin for someone like you (she says with total repsect)*S* I am a self admitted "techno-tard" I dont have a clue about what half of the things you mention above means.. html tables??? 80K (anything bigger then 30K is questionable)??? I had no idea the size of the pic mattered as long as it fit on the forum page...I was already sizing them down considerably from their original properties, but now that I understand better I'll refrain from using them or if I do make them much smaller. I think some of the smiley use is an effort to make our comments be taken as its intended as so often we see our typed words being misunderstood or taken wrong so the smileys hopefully help get the point across as meant. But I agree the posts with 10 or so repeated is excessive. After awhile they lose their impact and "cuteness"..like anything that is "over used." Personally I dont care for music to play while I try to read a poem..for me it throws the cadence off if the song's meter isnt the same as the poem's...but I do enjoy the presentation. I think it all comes down to is--if the option to use a feature is there,given to us...we assume, even if naively that it wont be hurting anyone when we do so? And unless we are educated like on a thread like this...we really dont realize theres a problem. So again, thank you for enlightening me. Please forgive my posting transgressions  *L* |
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SEA 
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
my computer loads pretty slow, I like the graphics, but I really don't want to wait 5 minutes for a poem to load... I like what Sunshine said.....KISS is a really good idea |
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Irie Senior Member
since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493Washington State |
OK, I am guilty of "slowing" things down once in a while, sorry. I think 5 is fair! I also like the idea of the music link. It is distracting to try and read and understand one's piece of work whith music playing in hte background. I think this is all fair Ron. ~Sheri |
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Midnitesun
since 2001-05-18
Posts 28647Gaia |
Thank you for asking us for our input. My PC has been struggling lately to load up graphics and smiley intensive poetry. Your limit of 5 smilie thingies per reply or post is quite reasonable. Also, sometimes the graphics are a bit much, though some really do add to the presentation. I like Sudhir's suggestion of a separate "visual" forum, if that is possible. I enjoy this site and would not like to see it "crash" under the heavy burden of graphics and smilies. Thank you for letting us comment prior to action. |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
I think 5 is more than fair Ron ... |
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Titia Geertman Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182Netherlands |
Oh Oh I'm the headmaster of using graphics with my poems I think (all the strolling thrue my garden and sunsets ect.) But I always try to resize them to 10 to 16kb. I could make them even smaller I guess without loosing it's value. It's oké with me if 5 is the limit. But...if you bring in the code, does that mean that in all the former posts pics will disappear??? I mean for instance in my latest Christmaspost with the little drawings of my father? If so, it would mean nothing anymore you see if one or two pics disappear. As for the smilies: I didn't know they took up so much space. I have used them frequently for a short while, but not anymore. Too many distract one's eye from the message is my opinion and indeed they don't give any more value than one does. And the music: I always turn it down for when I'm on the computer my dear husband is taking his nightly beautysleep, the poor guy wouldn't know what hit him if I would play the music out loud. LOL. Please let me know if the pics I use with my poetry are still too large. So do what you have to do, I'm a flexible girl  See... I even changed my signature. But please, don't do it tomorrow, for I ask some time to copy a few poems with pics and replies (to save them)Titia A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess... Want to use the pics on my website? Just send me a mail and I'll give you the link [This message has been edited by Titia Geertman (edited 12-17-2001).] |
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WhtDove Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-22
Posts 9245Illinois |
5 is the number of GRACE.....and I think that would work fine. I absolutely love the idea of no music, midis, as that really annoys me when I have to listen to it over and over again without being able to turn it off. It's distracting when trying to read a poem. Ron, I think it's long over due. I think there are quite a few members here who have over used the priveledge of graphics. I say right on! |
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Startime Member Ascendant
since 2000-10-03
Posts 5918Canada |
OOPs I have been using lots of smilies...I think I will just stop using them all together...I know how it can be with slow comps. Thanks for the info. |
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Enchantress Member Empyrean
since 2001-08-14
Posts 35113Canada eh. |
Bravo Ron! it is about time you took a stand on this matter but very kind of you to ask our opinion. I for one turn the music down and as for the large pictures some use with their posts, I will go and read another before I wait for it to load. This is a poetry site, not an art gallery. A limit of five smilies is fine by me! Thanks again, Nancy. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. And for the support. To be honest, I was feeling a bit like the Grinch, and it's good to see others have noticed the problem, too. Balladeer, I wish it was technically possible to put a size limitation on the larger graphics, but I'm afraid it's not. Athena doesn't know the size when the images are being loaded from a different web server, which is usually the case. Doreen, copyright is ALWAYS a definite concern and I'm glad you brought it front and center again. Using someone else's bandwidth also bears mention again. Sudhir, Midnitesun, there's plans for something "like" a visual forum, but we won't see until our next major software update. Even then, though, I hope we can continue to enjoy some presentation possibilities in ALL the forums. Titia, the 5-image limitation will be on a go-forward basis only. So that's not a problem. However, anyone who has posts they consider important to them should ALWAYS keep their own copies. Please don't depend only on our server. Stuff happens, and it's not always good stuff. There was a time when I backed up the forums to my local disk every week, but the sheer size of our database no longer allows that luxury. Everyone should take what measures they need to protect their own data. Finally, I'd like to clarify that this change is NOT prompted by a huge load on our server. Most of the larger graphics and all of the sound files are coming from other places on the Internet, and Athena is just passing along the request. No work at all. Even the multiple smilies aren't a burden. Your browser asks Athena for the first copy of a smilie, but the other dozen copies are coming directly from your own PC, pulled from your buffer cache. Athena isn't working too hard, which is exactly why I didn't notice the problems until I started spending a lot of time in Open. If anything, the changes I'm proposing will put more work on our server, because Athena will now be asked to monitor the number of images used. Our server isn't working too hard, but your PC and Internet connection is. For some, like suthern, it's a deal-buster, a killer that prevents her from being a more active part of the forums. For most, like SEA and Midnitesun, it's just plain inconvenient. But slow loading pages affect everyone, and the sad part is, it's just plain unnecessary. After a certain point, which we seem to agree should be five images, it's all cost and virtually no benefit. I'm still not sure what will eventually happen with some of our other problems, those centered more around HTML. I've disabled some, the ones no one should ever need, but am reluctant to disable all of them. They really can help with presentations, though very few people use them. Interestingly, there's a post in Open right now that illustrates what I mean. Take a look at Lady In Pink by MyEnchanted_Melody. The author has put an image and the text of her poem inside of a black-filled HTML table. Looks really good, too, and I certainly don't mean to pick on MyEnchanted_Melody, but it presents us with a problem. A table is nothing more than a grid, with rows and columns, that make it easier to format our pages. The blue parts of these pages are all tables, set against the white background, and they even have lines to show the gridwork of columns and rows. They're very useful critters. To use tables, we essentially tell the browser to start a table here, put this inside the table, put this inside the table, then end the table here. MyEnchanted_Melody did all of the first steps, but left off the last one. She never ended the table. Internet Explorer, the most popular browser, is pretty forgiving. It tries really hard to figure out what you "meant" to do. In this case, the table never ended, so IE kept putting everything else in that same table. All the replies became part of the originating post, as well as the links at the bottom of every page. When the page finished loading, IE said, "Well, she didn't close the table, so I guess I better do it for her." The result is a page where the replies are a little more narrow than usual, a page that loads more slowly because IE is doing more figuring, but a page that is nonetheless usable. Unfortunately, not all browsers are as forgiving as Internet Explorer. Go to that same page with Netscape and you'll never see the poem. You'll just see the top of the page, down to where MyEnchanted_Melody starts her table, but everything else is just white screen. Even after the page finishes loading, Netscape is STILL waiting for her to close the table. And it won't show anything inside the table until she does. Earlier today, I asked our esteemed Moderators to take a look at the page. Many of them couldn't tell anything at all was wrong. Several noticed it looked different, but didn't really know why. I have absolutely no doubt MyEnchanted_Melody uses IE and never saw the problem, either. I'm certainly not picking on her. It's a very, very common mistake, one that everyone makes from time to time, one that IE hides from us if we're not darn careful. But it exemplifies the problem of allowing HTML in the forums. Because even though IE is the most popular browser, it's certainly not the only browser. Twenty-five percent of the people on the Internet will never see the poem, will just get a blank white page. It obviously hurts the poet, but it also makes the forums look bad. Untidy. Unprofessional. Definitely a case of "we can do better." Unfortunately, there's no easy solution. Tables are the best thing since peanut butter, far too valuable to ignore or completely disable. In the future, if you run across a post like this one, where you see all the replies jammed into a narrow corridor in IE or a blank page in Netscape, you might mention it to the poet and suggest they fix their tables. That way, the other 25 percent of everyone can enjoy their work, too. |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Dear Ron, Number One: I promise to visit the Discussion Forums every time I now come here as I missed all this until I read Sharon's poem. Number Two: I promise to go stand in the corner rigth after I finish this, as I am sure I have done something wrong as I absolutely love graphics and music. Someone let me know what I am doing wrong and I will stop doing it. I store the graphics I use on my own site and most are from allwall (and I asked permission) to use them however I sometimes forget the artist's name but not often (I have now tied a cyber ribbon on my finger). Number 3: I think you are being more than fair as this is your site and if you say even 1 - then 1 it is! If I am one of those in violation - can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong as to the size or whatever. I tried to learn all the html I needed to do what I wanted to do, as I said, I absolutely love the picture with the poetry (but if I have to give up the tunes I will) LOL - almost put a pouting smilie there! Thanks for the information and I promise to do better right away. Thank you Ron I had absolutely no idea I was such a hog of space! Honest! psst - You are da man, you could never be the Grinch! Thank you, Sharon (Mysteria) |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Bump. Is there a graphic or smilie for the 'bump'??? |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
No, but I'll bet you know who to talk to about it.  The new code went in about an hour ago. As the guy was heard to say while passing each floor after falling off the Empire State Building, "So far, so good…" |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
for the "bump", there's sorta like  ...but I can just see Kit now, figuring out how to get a foot from the smiling, kicking another smiley "up"! |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Well I have done my homework and found out I am a culprit indeed. As Janet Marie, I assumed that if the option was there, I could use it, and did not realize all the trouble it caused. As I am really inspired by art and music, and use that to embellish whatever I write, I will just have to get better at the writing part I guess, LOL, poor me! I will make sure I cut all graphics used down to a smaller size, as I am one of those that is using them, sorry! As for the music Ron, I have one question. If one put a player on there with the option to play or not play does that still present the same problem as if you included it in the html coding to automatically play? If it does, I won't use music anymore. It must be my computer as I went to Enchanted Melody's poem and it loaded instantly for me, but I can appreciate what I have heard from others, that some of my poems take up to 3 minutes to load (OUCH!) I sure appreciate the thread you started, because I had no idea what trouble I caused, and thought I was just making a "pretty" presentation for visitors to the site. P.S. I have no problem at all with you removing any of mine that are taking up too much space, as at the time I was unaware of the problem they caused. Thanks again. ~*~ The Very Best Of The Season To You And Yours ~*~ [This message has been edited by Mysteria (12-18-2001 04:03 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Providing a link to the music solves the problem. It doesn't load, nor play, until and unless someone clicks on it. That returns the choice to the readers. The new software doesn't affect existing pages, but (if I did it right) trying to embed sound with HTML now should turn it into a link for you. And everyone should immediately stop feeling badly about it. It ain't the end of the world, it's just a little snafu. On a go-forward basis, we'll all get it resolved. Together. |
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Titia Geertman Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182Netherlands |
Thanks Ron, I do have copies of all my poems, but sometimes I like to copy the poem from the blue pages with all the replies. No problem there then. But I'm still a bit confused. Am I still allowed to use some pics with my poetry if they're at a size of 10 to 16kb??? Let's say if the total isn't above 30kb? Or would you rather have no pics at all anymore. I'm just a dumm Dutchie you see, figuring out all that you've said above about the HTML's. I already figured out that Althena wasn't your lady, but your server (is she not???)LOL Titia A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess... |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Thank you! |
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Lady In White
since 2001-02-12
Posts 2799USA |
LOL...Ron really wasn't trying to Grinch the holidays.... it's just one of those things that some of us know, and some of us don't know... I for one am going to be using more discretion...while art and music sway me, I'll just work that much harder to put it down so the rest of you can feel it for yourselves... |
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catalinamoon
since 2000-06-03
Posts 9543The Shores of Alone |
Hi Ron, thanks for this info. I don't use images myself, only cause I could not figure it out! I do want to say that some larger images have taken a long time for my low tech computer to show them, but I usually just whip past it and read the poem, which has already come in. And the few people that use lots of smilies, I think its ok, I have, as I said, the worlds worst computer, and they don't seem to load slowly at all. Anyway, I love this place, with or without music, graphics, or whatever. Just keep the poems coming.. Sandra |
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Marge Tindal
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
Thank you, Ron~ I enjoy the poetry, the graphics and the music allowed on this site. I've always tried to re-size the photos and upload them now to an acceptable server to be used with my poetry presentations~If and when I've known the artist I've given proper credit (as many of us do) ... if it's just out there for the taking ... I've done that too~ I think you made it very clear that it isn't about Passions' server space used ... but about some slow loading computers and linking to slow server sites. Personally, I have NEVER experienced a slow-loading poem with graphics and music on this site. As you're aware I use Internet Explorer. Poetry and pretty pictures and music just go so nicely together ... and with the lovely choices you've given us ... there is so much that can be done to enhance the words. Personally, I like 'painting' my words ... I think everyone understands that - like all new things - this will be worked out in time~ Again, I thank you for the options you give us~ ~*Marge*~ ~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~ |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
quote: There is if you want one Sharon, lol. .  . . [This message has been edited by Kit McCallum (12-18-2001 10:39 PM).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Titia, 10K to 16K is actually pretty small and should rarely be a problem. I am NOT, for even a minute, suggesting I'd rather have no pics at all. And yes, Athena is our web server. But that doesn't mean she's not also my girlfriend! Lady, Sandra, Marge - most people are already using the graphics as intended; to enhance, not dominate. That hasn't been and isn't a problem. Keep on keeping on. Sandra, just as a brief aside. Internet Explorer does a pretty good job of hiding the problem, allowing you to "whip past" the image and start reading the poem. Ever notice how jerky the pages seem when there are a lot of graphics? That's because IE is putting its little square "place holder" in when it finds a graphic, then when the graphic later finishes loading (and it's rarely the same size as the place holder), IE has to shift the whole page to make room for the bigger or smaller image. Jerky. To the best of my knowledge, Internet Explorer is the ONLY browser that does that. Load the same page with Netscape, or Opera, or webTV, as some examples, and you wait at the graphic until it loads, until the browser knows the size, WITHOUT the option of reading the poem that follows. So, about 25 percent of our people notice the slowness a lot more. |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
Thank you Kit!!! |
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Tracey Member Elite
since 2001-08-29
Posts 2808where insanity meets breeding |
Like Sandra, if I'd known how to use images, I probably would have used some myself. A lot of them are really neat. But I can understand that some connections may make them slow to unload. Glad you brought the issue here Ron. And by the way, where did you guys get the bumpy guy. That is so cool...I want to be able to do that. If she who dies with the most toys wins, then can I have some toy boys please? |
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Duncan Member Ascendant
since 2001-08-07
Posts 5455 |
Geez, Tracey...you don't know how to do the bump smilie? Everybody knows that! (I am going to pay for this...but it was too much fun too resist. Can only hope she's sleepy when she sees and thinks she misread...or remembers that she owes me one.) |
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suthern
since 1999-07-29
Posts 20723Louisiana |
Just for the record... because I don't want anyone feeling that their efforts aren't appreciated. *S* I do like the music and pictures many poets use to enhance their poetry or replies... so much that I've often made a special trip to the library just to enjoy the entire presentation. *S* But... as someone who sneaks a peek whenever possible at work (where I'll admit I learned the hard way to keep my speaker volume on OFF *G*) but generally reads at home without the benefit of graphics or sound... I can testify that I've read some of the most awesome poetry on this site and been so greatly impressed... without benefit of music or pictures. Poets, never doubt yourselves... the additions you use may enhance your work... but your words have a beauty that touches this heart, all on their own. *S* |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Hey, I tried it this morning...making the pictures smaller, no music and guess what? I am still alive! |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Mysteria, you crack me up!  |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Well be gentle on me, I will be going through some serious withdrawals over this adjustment yanno  but then, I guess I can always hum a few bars to get my muse kick-started! ~*~ The Very Best Of The Season To You And Yours ~*~ |
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mirror man Senior Member
since 2001-01-08
Posts 814 |
Hello, Ron. First, I would like to say that I didn't know sound files were causing people problems. And further, that if I caused anyone problems by using sound files in my postings, I do sincerely apologize. It was never intentional. Secondly, I would like to say that I have never used graphics in my poetry, but that I have had to wait for some graphics to display. It may be a wait, but it's hardly a problem to me. Also, many graphics add greatly to the quality of the poem. Finally, concerning sound, I find myself agreeing with Mysteria. I think an icon for sound that gives the viewer a choice is a very good idea. I have tried to do this myself, but it is at best a maybe. Yamaha has a code, for instance, which does work for a sound icon, but it puts the code on display (not very poetic). I have asked for help with this, but so far have received none. Perhaps the best solution would be to give the viewer a choice, with both graphics and sound. An icon, that is, that would only load the files on request. There will always be people who will disagree with whatever you do, and I agree with those who only want to read poetry, but at the same time disagree that it is better without multimedia. Thank you, Ron, and good luck to you and PiP. [This message has been edited by mirror man (12-19-2001 07:50 PM).] |
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mirror man Senior Member
since 2001-01-08
Posts 814 |
P.S., Please display the sound code we are to use now. I have tried to use my old code, and it doesn't work, and I don't want to break any more rules. [This message has been edited by mirror man (12-19-2001 07:58 PM).] |
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Tracey Member Elite
since 2001-08-29
Posts 2808where insanity meets breeding |
Ah, Duncan, I see you up there. You are being very bold, for someone who said to me last night…and I quote: “you ask how to do those bump images, I don’t want to look dumb, okay”. Now Kit, I agreed that I would ask the question, but only because Duncan was offering a pretty tantalizing bribe. However since he’s being such a scoundrel, just e-mail the secret code to me, so I can lord it over him for a very long time!! And Duncan, I most certainly do not recall that I owe you one….though I do seem to recall that you owe me a few!!! Lol If she who dies with the most toys wins, then can I have some toy boys please? |
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rosepetals25
since 2000-05-31
Posts 3076PA |
Ron, I don't use alot of pictures with my poems, but I am guilty of using smilies.. *chuckles* Yes.. I admit.. I'm a smilie junkie. I will try to curb my addiction and try to ease up a little... Thank you for saying something.. I had no idea. Tara "My heart is like an open book, for the whole world to read" |
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Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774Ontario, Canada |
LOL @ Tracey. Actually there's no secret code. I draw the images in a graphics program first, frame by frame (a lot like the old cartoons were done), then once I'm done, I use another software program to pull together all the separate snapshots/frames to look like motion. The little bump smiley is made up of 20 separate images. I've become a little addicted to creating these things, LOL. If you really do want to know more, let me know, and I can send you some more information. They're a lot of fun to create. [This message has been edited by Kit McCallum (12-19-2001 10:44 PM).] |
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Gentle Spirit Member Patricius
since 2000-10-09
Posts 13989 |
Ron, I just wanted to say thank you for keeping us posted on the technical side of the forums. I think that in honesty many people didn't realize the impact the graphics had on the loading speed. I agree with Janet, while the music is rather lovely, it also distracts from the poetry itself when reading and trying to absorb the flow and cadence. I also agree with Doreen and thank her for bringing the issue of copywrite up to remind us all of how important that is. You....a GRINCH.......nah never!! The need to educate people on this matter does not constitute turning you into a grinch. I think rather it makes you an honorable man for educating us and asking our opinion. When it comes down to it, I think the poetry that is presented in the forums by all of the fine poets here stand out in merit with the words alone being magnificant. The rest is all just added dressing, which while beautiful, does not make the poetry itself better. The poetry is an extension of the poet and is what is the most important thing in the long run. You sir, are the master, and I for one appreciate that. Thank you. Donna On the wings of words our spirits fly....and our souls are free. ~Me~ (I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the dance~Garth) [This message has been edited by Gentle Spirit (12-21-2001 10:02 AM).] |
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Charisma
since 2000-09-30
Posts 5906lost in blue pages |
I must confess that I love to use graphics and smilies too, and as more of the poets above I rather read poetry in silence and I always turn the sound off, so I am grateful for the clickable options. About the images I was thinking if there is a possibillity to have a special page where everyone can upload their images with a limited kb maybe? I mean this way there would be less links to other servers and other poets can use the same image too. It's just an idea that came up while reading the posts. Thanks Ron for everything you do and for offering such a comfortable home.  *wow* I only used one single smilie *s* see I can learn too to use less smilies *s* Charisma ~*Theresia~* |
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RosePetal
since 2001-08-26
Posts 2985South Florida |
I just recently got the hang of posting smilies. I sometimes see people who post a smilie at the end of each sentence in their post! I think 5 is a good limit, even for the most enthusiastic people!! |
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MyEnchanted_Melody Senior Member
since 2001-05-30
Posts 1106across the land of dreams. In your heart, I'd always be. |
I extend my apologies here.... I had no idea about the troubles I was causing. Like Mysteria I was only trying to make a "pretty presentation". Dear Mysteria has said much of what I would like to say, we seem to be in the same boat. I'd try my best to stop this attachment I have with making presentations.... And I apologize again and I'm thankful for all the people who drew my attention to this. thank you ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Fading Away
since 2001-03-14
Posts 3131Lynchburg, Virginia |
Hey Ron, I just have one request: I was posting a reply to the replies to my poem in Teen 5 a few days ago, and put too many smilies in the text. It was a rather long reply, and took me a good 10-15 minutes before I finally pushed the "submit reply" button. However, a message came up saying I had too many graphics, and requested that I click "Back" to edit, and resubmit my reply. But when it took me back, everything was erased. Everything I had previously typed was gone. Is there any way to prevent from happening again? Thanks! --Marie If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the most frustrated people in the world are those who know they're stupid, but keep trying anyway. |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Thanks for this thread, Ron. Ethel |
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Trillium
since 2001-03-09
Posts 12098Idaho, USA |
Hi all: I have never used any sound or graphics for anything I've posted, so I guess this is not applicable for me. However, I have certainly enjoyed the graphics and sound that others use. Whatever works best for Ron and for all the forums, is great with me! I just enjoy the work posted here so much, for the text itself. Betty Lou Betty Lou Hebert [This message has been edited by Trillium (12-06-2003 08:23 PM).] |
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James_A_Fraser Senior Member
since 2003-09-03
Posts 972Out Making Anticlines |
Poetry is about words. From my point of view, the site would lose nothing if there were a limit of one graphic per topic. One graphic is the upper limit for me -- if I see a post with multiple images, I assume there's something wrong with the poem that leaves it weak enough to need that much support, and I move on without reading it. I'm probably wrong a fair amount of time, but to me they detract more often than they add. I don't care either way about smilies. In fact, I think I generally don't notice them at all. We could do away with them altogether and I wouldn't care, though sometimes they can be really cute if they're used to amplify a message. Oh, and as for sound -- I don't even have a soundcard in this box. ~~J [This message has been edited by James_A_Fraser (12-08-2003 02:21 AM).] |
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