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King Arthur |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296
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Had the opportunity to see King Arthur this past weekend and was interested in hearing from all of you who saw it and what you thought? I liked the none-typical roles in this movie, made it more interesting, and she was fantastic as a soldier....the scene on the ice was great...overall, it held my attention but (it doesn't take much) hehehhehe.... Traditionally, I don't believe there is very much information on King Arthur....and so, he has been romantisized on screen and theater, but this new movie added something more incredibly real...as if, perhaps it was really like that then. And the horses, OMG, they were beautiful...the Knights were so imperfect with special personalities....with a touch of humor. Well worth seeing... |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
I wanted to see it, and liked the angle they were leaning on, linking the Legend of Arthur with a real-life Roman commander(forget his name). I've hesitated though, watching the previews soured me a little on the movie though i'm sure i'll still watch it. Making Guinevere a warrior, and a smart assed one to boot, was another of example of hollywood forcing horrible revisions to make classic female characters more exciting and central to the story. They tried to do this with Arwen in Lord of The Rings, making her a warrior princess, but fans caught wind and were so enraged that the revisions and some film were quickly scrapped. I realize there's a lack of strong female characters and role models, but to revise classic works just for the sake of creating one. ugh. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Hi, and thanks for replying...I can honestly understand the distate and why...but if that can all be laid aside...well, I liked it, and the part she played, for me it was an interesting change...and didn't see her like you described...but more so, thoughened by life and quit able to take care of herself... and enjoyed the movie...thought it was a sort of role reversal in the context as well as the characters. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
To be fair it could simply be the way the trailer is cut. "Don't worry I'll protect you" line is the one that irked me. At first, making Guinevere a warrior seemed akin to making Maid Marianne a ninja. It seemed a pointless revision but in defense of the movie I've been researching Arthurian legend in an historical context and it seems there may be something to the warrior angle. Guinevere is a difficult character to get a grasp on, there isn't much documentation on her. Depending on whom you listen to, some historians believe there may have been as many as 3 Guineveres married to Arthur. The first of them was Guinevere of Orrge. This would seem to be the Guinevere legend that the film makers chose to play with. Guinevere of Orrge is said to have been a Celtic princess whose father sent her to a Roman garrison where she received full military training in order to defend their vast estate. While training is the extent of her warrior side in the legend, I can at least see where the writers chose the celtic warrior angle. So I've eased up  lol I'll watch it, let's face it I'd have watched it anyway, both for my l@ve of period pieces and Kiera Knightley(but for god's sake somebody feed her). |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Actually, I have much more trouble, in ANY story, accepting a completely mismatched couple. Does anyone really believe men like Robin or Arthur would be seriously attracted to wimpettes? A strong man might not need a woman wielding a sword, but he certainly needs one who can fight. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
...Or at least, give the appearance that she can more than hold her ground....  |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
My problem was only in revision, like the proposed warrior Arwen. Personally I even hated that she was the one who rode Frodo to Rivendell, poor Glorfindel got the boot. As for strong female characters I agree. Has anybody seen Lion In Winter? Katherine Hepburn's Queen Eleanor is a perfect example of a strong, take no BS Queen. There have been remakes and plays but it's Hepburn's delivery in the 1968 version. God I L@VE that movie. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Think about it...back in those days, the men were away fighting...now whose going to mind the store while they're gone? Stands to reason, why women needed to protect themselves. And to be quite candid and humble at the same time  ...When Guinevere said, "Don't worry, I'll protect you", he smiled, and I took it as a precious joke between the two of them...besides, if you had your choice, wouldn't you wish a compitent woman by your side in battle? Grew up with 21 boys in my neighborhood, learned how to catch a football very well, hit the baseball hard...run fast...fish, hunt..hang drywall, target shot clay pigons....hang electric lights...finish concrete...luke blacktop...and still love with a passion to dress like a real princess for those special occassions. Hate shopping very much, as well as, soap operas, but...enjoy the opposite gender just in case there are any notions flying around in your minds (smile) I learned very quickly, if I did anything better then those boys...I walked around with two black & blue arms...so very quickly fostered that type of woman Ron described, and you know something, that carried over up until 6 years ago. Some men are so intimidated by intellegent, independent women. Why? Nah, the Lady played the part of a Lady in all aspects of the word...and I thought she did a gr8 job doing so... Hope I didn't offend you in anyway...hopefully you can see where I didn't take offense by that "I'll protect you" line...women are nurtures and would protect her own like a mama bear over her cubs if need be...believe me...there isn't anything we couldn't do if we had to and put our minds down to it. I loved the movie, the concept and the change in characters was a breath of fresh air Thanks a bunch for the info on King Arthur... |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I saw the movie and it was completely believeable. She grew up as a Wold..a forest dweller..all the women could fight like a man..in the final battle scene, the women were right there beside the men. I think Clive Owen is a good actor...I've loved every movie I've seen him in and he ranks right up there with the best of the hotties. The characters were well drawn and you cared about them all...and the action scenes were well done... |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
LeeJ, personally I always fall for tomboys so it's not an issue of not liking strong women, just changing my favourite stories. But reading what I have on Guinevere the changes become clearer. As I said it's also the way trailers are cut, you don't see scenes in context and read into things. I can't tell you how many trailers clip two scenes together to make a statement, then watching the movie you find they're actually at completely different ends of the movie. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
PDV, if you like Clive Owen check out BMW movies. BMW commisioned a series of short films with Clive Owen as a driver for hire. Some of them are absolutely brilliant and include directors Ang Lee,John Frankenheimer and interesting cameos as well. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
thanks a bunch for leaning toward the Tom Boy types  and also for the refrences. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
P.S. May I offer a tenny tiny soloution, don't watch the trailors.... cannot wait to see the Manchurian Candidate...I'm a movie buff from way back...love em...and I don't read the books first, otherwise, it's a big let down |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
And I'd like the tomboy types who've let me lean on them. grins |
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Susan Member Ascendant
since 2004-03-27
Posts 5104walking the surreal |
Okay, to add my two cents worth, The History Channel has a great show on right now about the myth and history of King Arthur. It goes into the possible roman ties, the romancing of the story by the Monk that wrote the story the legend is mostly based upon, etc. Arthur was probably a mix of several people. He was needed to boost the moral of the people at the time due to the saxon invaders. As for strong women, I agree with Raph in not corrupting a story by changing a character to such a degree -- ticked me off in the Lord of the Rings series and their interpretation of Faramir. However, as a wanna be warrior woman myself, I do not jest, I have the greatest admiration for women of strength and valor. It is my pleasure to associate with a number of women you would not want to meet on the streets. Did you know that the Amazon women are based upon women from the stepps around the mid to far east who were fantastic horsemen and archers. It is said that at puberty they would cut off the young womans left breast in order to aid in her abilities as an archer. Ouch! However, I shall accept the movie when I see it, which I hope to soon, for what it is as it is, an interpretation and vision of the Arthruian legend. Susan |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
"As for strong women, I agree with Raph in not corrupting a story by changing a character to such a degree -- ticked me off in the Lord of the Rings series and their interpretation of Faramir" THANK YOU, I've been bitching about that one forever, and despite a decent explanation by Phillipa Bowens (on the extended Two Towers DVD)I still think it was a horrible decision. As a result one of the most intriguing characters in literature gets the shaft. Faramir resists the ring for god's sake, proving there is still hope for the race of men. The extended versions are far better at fleshing out the characters. Quite frankly, while I l@ved Sean Bean's acting(perfect casting), I didn't like Boromir's treatment in the film version. The extended better shows his postive/protective aspects and his inner struggle. I'd hoped the same for Faramir, but while the extended DVD offers a little more insight into the character, he pales in comparison to his literary counterpart. I had to let alot go with Jackson's versions, and they're brilliant. I'm incredibly happy for the film adaptations and that LOTR has reached a wider audience. It still doesn't mean that some of those changes were necessary or even make sense. |
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Susan Member Ascendant
since 2004-03-27
Posts 5104walking the surreal |
Much agreed, I too had to let a lot go. I guess I was just in bliss at seeing LOTR on screen that I could let some slide. Faramir, however! And I agree, Boromir was not fleshed out enough to show his conflict until the extended. I've yet to buy Return of the King unitl the extended comes out. Luckily, with King Arthur, so many different interpreations have been put to film it will not be such a stretch to let go my doubts. Susan |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Well i don't mind letting things go if there's a reasonable explanation. I'm still trying to figure out why the ring was revealed to the Nazgul in Two Towers..shrugs. Well you'll have to wait much longer for the extended version. Jackson's working on King Kong so the extended version won't be done until Christmas at the earliest, or sometime next year at the latest. sighs. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Susan, your a gal after my own heart....smiles... There was only one specific thing that I didn't like about King Arthur, and, it's possible I missed it...but...in the advertisement I saw on TV...someone suggested that the Holy Grail was going to be merged with this movie as well? From the reports I've heard, and, believe me, I'm just tossing this around for feedback...I came to read that Kind Arthur and his Knights were also very instrumental in protecting the Holy Grail...which also came from the Di Vinci Code....which was indeed, some fiction, other factual information backed up by resources? And again...keeping in mind, your reading opinions perhaps....but...has anyone read or found any material substantial on King Arthurs involvement with the Holy Grail and it's secrecy? |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail by Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln is a great source for the legend. While not as sound and scholarly as their more recent work, Leigh & Baigent offer some interesting insight and theories. Unfortunately, many of those theories get lost in their search for the fantastic. But it should be stated that certain theories have been argued and accepted by biblical scholars. So, while flawed the book is an interesting springboard and at the very least an interesting read. I haven't read the DaVinci code but have read many theories into the legend. I've seen no credible link to DaVinci, though I believe that he believed, and subsequently painted, the Magdalene as an apostle in The Last Supper. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Holy Blood and Holy Grail seemed to go hand in hand [for me] with The DaVinci Code. Lots of room for speculation. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Of course Karilea, that's why I was careful to mention the book's tendency to reach for the fantastic. However, some of the theories represented have been discussed in much more reputable circles. A&E's brilliant Mysteries of the Bible featured many discussed by the world's most reknowned biblical scholars. The book is an interesting read but doesn't hold much weight for me. Unlike some of their recent work, it's too full of innuendo and reaches to far. But as a source for the 'legend' itself, it's a good starting point. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
So, while flawed the book is an interesting springboard and at the very least an interesting read. I haven't read the DaVinci code but have read many theories into the legend. I've seen no credible link to DaVinci, though I believe that he believed, and subsequently painted, the Magdalene as an apostle in The Last Supper. Yes, and do you know that a lot of people deny the Magdalene as an apostle in the Last Supper? Then what about the other Masters that were listed in the Di Vinci Code as being secret members? Do you believe that might be fiction as well? Also, Sunshine, I hear ya...but there's something really awesome which puts a smile on my face whenever I consider the fact that, wouldn't it be something, I mean really something, "if" His seed was right now today, walking among us? Talk about Hope for Mankind? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Yes, Lee.... and that's probably why I enjoyed very much that potential possibility.... |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
smiles... heres something else....in the Di Vinci Code which was engrossing..... On the PHI.1 The point of this, is that we find that it's not limited to nature, but it's been used by artists and architects. The Parthenon, the pyramids in Egypt and the United Nations Building all use the Divine Proportion. Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Durer and many other artists used the proportion in their paintings, and Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, Shubert and Debussy are just a few musicians who have also used it in their compositions. I dunno, perhaps I should have started another discussion, huh? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
LOL...it's your thread. Yes, so much an d all factual material that one could spend a lifetime, piecing together the many talented hands that lent to keeping the secret, secret... |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
yes, absolutely, but wouldn't it be a worthwhile lifetime spent researching all of this, and then, if...if by chance it were factual...can you begin to imagine the changes it would grossly encompass? Catistropic changes in all world history, biblical theory...governmental involvement...ROME...the 2 clandestine societies...it would open up so many windows all at one time...finding the Ark would seem so trivial compared to this...so sacchrin? Wouldn't it? Thanks Sunshine for your input |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Yes, and do you know that a lot of people deny the Magdalene as an apostle in the Last Supper? I do, it's yet another shameful act to diminish the role of women in religion. Her role was minimized, her gospel deleted, and her name sullied. The term 'sinner' is used and many believe this to be a euphemism for prostitute, however, there is no textual evidence and many scholars believe the label is a reference to her devotion to the Goddess Mari-Anna-Ishtar(which makes more sense reading of certain passages). I believe in the Sang Real theory. I think the other angles, the Priory of Scion and the links to a host of famous persons, are a bit far fetched. Still, I strongly suggest the book. If you're really interested in an alternative look at Jesus, read the Dead Sea Scroll Conspiracy by the same authors. While again, the authors sometimes stretch , it's still an excellent springboard to theories pursued by other books and scholars. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
Also, I forgot to mention, I strongly recommend PBS's Frontline: From Jesus To Christ. Incredibly interesting. Here's a synopsis: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/ |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
Yes, and do you know that a lot of people deny the Magdalene as an apostle in the Last Supper? DO I????? BY all means, more then not? and if I ask them, who was the first person to see Jesus when he arose...and took His message to the deciples, they become so offended? I mean, there is no harm to consider other options...why is it so difficult to realize that MAN firstly hid the contents of the Bible from us...so what did Man leave out or replace??????? I don't find anything far fetched...but that's just me...to me, especially a secret society as such...can you imagine the grave implimentations if we would have fought those guys and tried to free women...? No, as in any secret society...cult, whatever you wish to call them...there are reasons for secrecy...and I'd like to believe in the good guys with the white hats...including Guinevere...smiles |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
No no.. LOL I wasn't asking you, it was a quote of what you'd asked me, sorry should have 'blocked' it. I agreed with you on how Magdalene has been misrepresented and gave examples. But as for the secret society angle, do you have any idea how many secret societies claim the same members? That's why I'm hesitant about that side of the book. I like the theory of Jesus as King and the Sang Real, the rest is somewhat shaky is all, but not outside the realm of possibility. |
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LeeJ Member Patricius
since 2003-06-19
Posts 13296 |
LOL...thanks for the input and feedback, I love these topics, finding them very interesting, and I'm so hopelessly curious More times then not, when I'm contributing to written conversations, I'm asking questions, but others mis-read and think I'm making statements written in stone...so I am greatful for your patience...all of you and am learning to word my input a little differently. Well, enjoy the day, have fun. |
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