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Music?
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Music? |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
What kind of music do poets listen to? I look around me and see many local poets listening to new age music and classical, shunning rock, thinking they're too good for it... Hate those people :p I listen to a ton of stuff... I have a very broad range of preferences. My very very favorite band is Pink Floyd. Never will they be replaced as my favorite band. I also like Queensryche, Dream Theater, Sting, The Beatles, The Moody Blues, Jethro Tull, Coldplay, Journey, Tom Petty, and the list goes on forever... That of course doesn't look to broad. It's all rock, 0the only difference being the sub categories each one belongs to. I also like new age music, I have all four of the Pure Moods cds and the Pure Chill Out cd. I like the blend of music from Africa and Asia with American influences. My favorite new age artist is Enigma, followed by Delerium. In addition to that, I like techno. Techno rocks because there is so much of it and it's so easy to make. My favorite artists here(though many of my favorite techno songs have anonymous artists) are Torley Wong and Digital Droo. I also like some orchestra music... The Star Wars soundtracks are excellent examples. I love all three of the original ones, and the Episode 1 soundtrack was really good. Haven't listened to Episode two yet, though. Basically, music is my life. I love music. I am very passionate about music and I fervently defend it if someone starts insulting my music. I'm interested to know what you guys like  |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Yes. Let's see - on the desk tonight: Matchbox 20's new one - It's "ok." Lifehouse: Stanley Climbfall - Pretty good, though not as good as teh first by far. Queensryche: Promised Land, Hear in the Now Frontier, and Operation Mindcrime - Uhm, yeah, I have all their albums, 'nuff said. Disturbed: Believe - LOVE it. That's tonight, though I did spend some time d/l older Disturbed. It changes with the mood and the evening - I love everything you've listed above, though I don't think I've heard of the one you listed after Enigma. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Oh, and John Williams (Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Jaws, etc.) R.O.C.K.S. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Opeth Dream Theater Spock's Beard King's X Symphony X Savatage Porcupine Tree Agalloch Jethro Tull Pink Floyd Black Sabbath Deep Purple ELP Yes Moody Blues Old Motown hits (Al Green, Temptations, etc) Tchaikovsky Beethoven Mozart Rachmaninoff Schubert Sibelius [This message has been edited by Opeth (12-04-2002 10:19 AM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Yeah, I thought Pink Floyd was untoppable as my favorite, until Ani DiFranco came along- but it's really hard to judge that, because they are two completely different types of music, pink Floyd generally appealing more to intellect, and Ani appealling more to emotion. I'm listening to Third Eye Blind's self-titled right now... it's got to be the most thouroughly sad album I've ever listened to. Other that, I kind of go all over the place... I'm suprised by my new affinity for the dumb punk rock that seems to have become popular lately. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I listen to almost anything..but Mariah Carey tends to make me violent. with a :supergroin: and a nod to /jen/!  |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Recently? The Beatles, Blur, Blondie, Stereolab, Slayer, Megadeth, My Bloody Valentine, Primal Scream, The Birthday Party, The Dead Kennedys, Weezer, X, The Breeders, The Amps and Bach. And mind you, that's only recently (the past few weeks) Mike |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
i listen to all music except old scool country ::shudders:: and pop ::shudders even more::. some of my more preferred artists are as listed: - elvis presley. - nirvana. - garbage. - ani difranco. - frank sinatra. - don mclean. - smashing pumpkins. - rem. - the eels. - louis armstrong. - sinead o'connor. - the eagles. - bif naked. - billie holiday. - credence clearwater revival. - coldplay. - blossom dearie. - the cranberries. - emm gryner. - the doors. - diana krall. - sarah slean. - enya. - placebo. - simon and garfunkle. - dashboard confessions. - alanis morissette. - gob. - suzanne vega. - old school sarah mclachlan. - eric clapton. - silverchair. - pink floyd. - rolling stones. - sarah harmer. - tori amos. - duke ellington. etc. etc. etc. i'm a music nut. /jen/ i'm freezing, i'm starving, i'm bleeding to death. everything's fine. [tracy bonham] |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
mariah carey tends to make everyone violent. especially our furry little friends, as her high notes are commonly confused with dog whistle tones. ::shudders violently:: /jen/ i'm freezing, i'm starving, i'm bleeding to death. everything's fine. [tracy bonham] [This message has been edited by quietlydying (12-04-2002 12:33 PM).] |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
let's see... I love music, but only my music. I'm open-minded though, usually anything I hear that's powerful, sublime, or well-written strikes me as great music. Here are the artists I have folders for, at least SOME of them: - Boards of Canada - Cabaret Voltaire - Cat Rapes Dog - Das Ich - Diary of Dreams - Faith and the Muse - Front Line Assembly - Funker Vogt - Gross National Produkt - Haujobb - Hocico - In Flames - Informatik - Kalte Farben - Kompressor In Action - Leæther Strip - Marilyn Manson (I know, I know) - Nirvana - Philip Glass - Pink Floyd - Plastic Assault - Shpongle - Sigur Ros - Skinny Puppy - Sneaker Pimps - Suicide Commando - Tangerine Dream - Throbbing Gristle - U2 - Vangelis - Velvet Acid Christ - VNV Nation - VoID CoNSTRUCT - :wumpscut: - X Marks the Pedwalk See? Long list, very diverse. Opeth is also quite good. Right now I'm in love with the song "Harvest." Oh and Poetic Justice... if you're into new-agey stuff like Enigma, you should check out Shpongle. They're kind of a trancey-ish group that takes a very international approach to their style... they use a lot of african/indian/etc elements in their sound. You might like it.  [This message has been edited by Local Parasite (12-04-2002 12:54 PM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Pain of Salvation Soundgarden Alice In Chains Ice Age Katatonia Rush |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Here are a few of my constant favorites right now. Collective Soul, Moist, P!nk, Bryan Adams, Live, Avril Lavigne, The Tea Party, Kylie Minogue, Madonna, Nickelback, Garbage, and Nelly Furtado. [This message has been edited by Essorant (12-04-2002 01:44 PM).] |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
I like all music, except for SOME of the nasal kinds of country, except for Willie Nelson... My favorite of all are Soft Rock love songs (wouldn't you know??). My favorite artist are Rod Stewart Lonestar Brian McKnight Celine Dion Michael Bolton Sting Bryan Adams 'NSync Diamond Rio Faith Hill/Tim McGraw Tim McGraw Aaron Neville/Linda Ronstadt Rascals Flatt Brooks and Dunn Alan Jackson Elvis Presley Mel Torme Kenny Rogers James Taylor Kiss The Beatles Gladys Knight and the Pips The Carpenters Cher all old Motown, especially the Temptations George Strait and on and on and on......  "Love makes the world go around" ~~with love and hugs from Ethel~~ [This message has been edited by garysgirl (12-04-2002 02:52 PM).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Jen - With a smile on my face, I want to tell ya that almost all the artists you listed were considered "pop" at the height of their careers. |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
yes, but when music was still good. do you think anyone is going to bother with britney spears, mariah carey and n'sync twenty years from now? i doubt they'll even remember their names. /jen/ i'm freezing, i'm starving, i'm bleeding to death. everything's fine. [tracy bonham] |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
and jazz, and rock and whatnot aren't considered pop in my books. pop is no longer an abbreviation for popular music. it's a whole new genre, made up of britney spears, ricky martin, backstreet boys, christina aguilera and all of those lovely artists who don't even write any music and are simply around for merchandising and revenue purposes. /jen/ i'm freezing, i'm starving, i'm bleeding to death. everything's fine. [tracy bonham] |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
This place rocks! At school I'm hard pressed to find someone with the same musical tastes as myself... Most of my friends are into crap like Linkin Park and System of a Down and other new punk rock crap like that. I swear, they know maybe a total of four chords(I even know more than that, and I'm just learning) and they scream simple, angry lyrics into the mic as loud as they can. No talent. Christopher, I'm interested to know which Queensryche album you like best(I have them all too, they're easily my second or third favorite). I'm torn between Empire, Operation: Mindcrime, and Promised Land. The latter is so different than anything else they've done... But the first time I listened to it I was like, "Wow, the reviewers don't know anything..." I pretty much like any progressive rock, Pink Floyd invented the genre, and hey, it's good stuff. I like sprawling 15 minute long rock suites like what Dream Theater and Pink Floyd do. The only problem is that finding mp3s for some of the lesser known bands is pretty hard... I'm not buying the cd if I don't get a chance to sample it first. About pop though, this is a common misconception nowadays: The pop most people refer to as crap like Britney and Christina and N'Sync and such are not pop, they are teeney bop pop. A sub genre. The Beatles are pop, Nelly Furtado(she's pretty good) is pop, Matchbox 20 is considered pop, Michelle Branch, there's a long list of talented pop artists. It's also true that no one's going to remember the crap music from today in 20 years. The old good stuff? Yes. Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, they'll all be remembered and reverred, and probably dead too  . Dark Side of the Moon was on the US LP charts for almost 15 years, no one's going to remember Britney in 10. Pink Floyd and the bands I mentioned above are still selling well today, Britney won't. I don't know why I went on this long schpeel... But oh well. I'm incredibly passionate about my music. Especially my favorites.Mmm, and I forgot several bands that I love... U2, Collective Soul, They Might Be Giants, Steve Miller Band... |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Operation Mindcrime is not only my absolute favorite Queensryche album, but also my favorite concept album, just barely topping Tommy, by The Who. Promised Land was pretty darn good after a four year or so break, but lies third on my Queensryche list, topped by Mindcrime at first and Rage for Order at second. They rocked all the way through, and honestly, the album I liked the least was Empire... it was too... mellow, for Geoff Tate's unique, hard-hitting voice. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Oh - and a definite agreement with the epic songs such as you'd find with Dream Theater's older stuff (urgh on all but the original Metropolis... got waaaay overdone), Floyd, older Metallica (Sanitarium for example), and Mercyful Fate to name a few. Ah, but they fall to the wayside after a while and we're left with the ones we already know by heart... |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
My Dying Bride Nevermore Anathema |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Okay, I don't get the thing with being "m!zzundastood' as such a hip thing- Bif Naked, P!nk (I'm lauging at myself for typing an ! instead of an i), Avril Lavigne, all prance around revelling in their 'defferentness' and complaining about it at the same time. Bif Naked isn't quite as bad about it as the other two... You know what song I heard on the radio today that held up much better than I would have expected it to? 'Shoop' by Salt-n-Pepa... I remembered the words from when I was like ten... System of a Down is growing on me... I like Toxicity quite a bit- I definitely wouldn't lump them with Linkin Park... System's songs might not be cheery, or even always substantial, but they have a lot more going for them that L. Park and P. Roach (aren't they synonymous?) do... |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
System of a Down? Punk? That's like calling Slayer or Megadeth punk, because they infuse politics into their music.... No no no no no no. Punk is long dead. Nirvana was punk. Sex Pistols were punk. Ramones, definitely. X, yes. Germs, X-Ray Spex, The Slits, Siouxsie's first album, The Clash, Minor Threat, Black Flag. All punk. Dead Kennedys. Definitely punk. Green Day, Linkin Park, The Offspring. God, no. Blink 182? Blech. The Cure and Depeche Mode are more punk than Blink 182 -- and their music is infinitely better. Anyway. Wasn't that confusing? Mk |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
P.S. Bificus forever! |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Mike (that's your name, right?) The term 'punk' seems to have become quite the loaded term. There's old school punk (which, incidentally, I'm not very fond of, though my boyfriend loves it.) What makes the Ramones more punk than Blink 182? I mean, I would call the Ramones very poppy- sure they did the whole 3-chord thing, but so did Patty Smith. Big gap there- so what's punk? Modern punk/pop, like Blink 182, Sum 41, Green Day, Good Charlotte, A Simple Plan, on and on and on... have a certain sound that links them all together as punk. There's a certain sound that you come to expect from the bass-drums-lead guitar style that characterizes punk. I don't include Linkin Park or the Offspring here, because I think they have more of a metal thing going. But, is punk simply a way of making music? Or is it an ideal? Is there a rule that says punk can't be profitable, that it has to stay underground to remain truly punk? When music appeals to too many people, does that mean it is no longer cutting-edge enough to be considered punk? What exactly do you mean? |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Oh, and I disagree on the Cure/Depeche Mode thing- not that I don't like the Cure (must say that I'm not much of a Depeche Mode fan, though)... How do you justify calling 80's Euro-synth/industrial bands (at least in part) more punk than Blink 182? Is it because they had this "anti-good stuff" thing going on? because I don't think punk has to be that... but then what kind of scale |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
the whole "what is punk discussion" is what really grabbed my attention, i agree hush that punk is a very loaded and over used term. Now you know that i don't like blink i82. I guess what you would call punk is subjective. For me punk was a style of music in the 1970's born out of furstration and anger at social conditions. It was a style a music that was a reaction to both the flower pop and the complex heavy rock of the 60's. It was simple fast and loud. Sometimes politic (CLash, Sex pistols, dead Kennedy's) and sometimes poppy (ramones, buzzcock's). Then there is post punk (magazine, birthday party, Joy division). Punk took in alot of musical styles and filtered them and broke them down into raw passion. THe Clash are considered the greatest punk band ever (accroding to a poll in a leading british music journal) but they incorperated everything from pop, funk, blues, soul, rap, reggae, disco, funk. PUnk for me is a certain attitude. Bands such as Greenday and Blink 182 don't have it. Also what is wrong with System of a down? I hated them at first, but the way they blend Armenian folk music with heavy rock it is pretty orginal. now to answer the question that started this thread, I got the Joy Division box set recently. four cds of almost everything they recorded. so it has to be JOy Division. If you don't know, seek find and be enlightened. I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
Nirvana is grunge. They're so revered in the hard rock community because they made grunge mainstream. SoAD may have some politics in their music, but I have yet to hear a song by them that's at all creative. My friend (who is obsessed with them) told me to listen to Streamline, as that was his favorite song at the time. I did. When they weren't screaming and strumming as hard as they could, it was just... bland. Aerials was even worse... The only decent song by them is Spiders, and even then it's just that: decent. As for Avril Lavigne and Pink... They're not any different than Britney. The record companies realize that people grow out of Britney and that other crap sometime in their teens. So Avril and Pink, the "anti Britneys" take the stage. Avril only knows a few chords on her guitar, and Pink fakes being drunk and other stunts on national TV. They're products of the record companies. Operation: Mindcrime is definetly one of my favorite concept albums, but I don't know if it's my very favorite. Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall are also really good... I liked Empire a lot, though. Geoff sings a lot more in the lower ranges, which can be a good thing for people who aren't metalheads (I'm a progressive metalhead :p ). And punk is coming back. Slayer and Megadeth obviously aren't punk, and I probably shouldn't have said SoAD when I was grouping punk bands... But it is back. In a different form. Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, and some think Blink 182 is punk(I don't, I think it's crap). Most of the new groups and artists are just capitalizing on the angst of teens. They shout angry lyrics and loud guitar to try and appeal to an angry teen. And unfortunately, it works. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
My Dying Bride isn't half bad either, Opeth... the only problem is that their really good songs are outnumbered by their terribly mediocre ones. I'd never buy an MDB album, but I'm happy listening to She Is The Dark or The Isis Script on mp3. |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
I listen to everything (and I'm one of those people that actually does). It all depends on my state of mind/mood/tongue at the time. A consistent favourite though is Tori Amos. i was here |
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quietlydying
since 2001-06-10
Posts 935the wonderful land of oz |
who doesn't like tori amos? and since when are pink and avril whats-her-face classified in the same category? bif has talent. and her music is decent. she's been around for ages, and it will stay that way. the other two will probably be gone by the end of next year. /jen/ i'm freezing, i'm starving, i'm bleeding to death. everything's fine. [tracy bonham] |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
Never said Avril and Pink were in the same category of music, though they're both pop. I said they're both products of the record companies. Which they are. And they were created for the same purpose. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
All this argument over what qualifies as Punk, and here's hush describing Depeche Mode as industrial... boy... I wish I listened to the radio, I might have something to say in this argument.  |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
quote:This isn't anything new. Go back throughout the history of music and you find the same thing. quote:Uhm - same thing. The only thing that's changed is the definition of "angry" and "loud." quote:And, uhm, yeah, again. From Elvis to Insane Clown Posse, generation to generation, it works. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
oh yeah, and Pink? *whew* Hotttttttt!  |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"My Dying Bride isn't half bad either, Opeth... the only problem is that their really good songs are outnumbered by their terribly mediocre ones. I'd never buy an MDB album, but I'm happy listening to She Is The Dark or The Isis Script on mp3." ~ I have MDB's Light at the End of the World and The Dreadful Hours. There are only a couple of tracks from TDH that I don't like. The rest are quite good. I am happy I purchased it. I don't listen to Light very much. I don't think it is as good as TDH, but I am still delighted to have it in my collection. People have told me that their best is Turn Loose the Swans. |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
I don't know. I tend to sympathize with singers/musicians. They are human beings after all - and whether it's pop or rock there are molds. They have to fit their "identity" or else they face the threat of losing everything they've worked so hard for. It may be shallow, but we all do these things in one form or another. And of course.. it comes back to how magazines, tv, etc are trying to make money off of these walking trends too. I like Angelina Jolie and I remember I bought this magazine once because she was on the cover. On the cover in bold letters it said "Angelina Jolie: Shares Her Dirty Bedroom Secret". She mentioned once (and barely) something having to do with sex in the interview and it was not "dirty" or some huge secret. They do what sells. Plain and simple. I don't particularly like Pink or Avril, but I respect them because I think to some degree they are sincere people who want to find a place in between the plastic and the flesh. This is just my opinion. I'm probably wrong but oh well.. I just try to understand people before I judge them. (Not trying to imply anything. I think most of you are far more intelligent than I am. )i was here [This message has been edited by Jaime (12-06-2002 11:35 AM).] |
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Allysa
since 1999-11-09
Posts 1952In an upside-down garden |
Let's see how good my memory is... Nirvana The Beatles Aquabats Anti-Flag Apocoliptica Blood For Blood Dead Kennedys (screw the alpahbet... here I go..) Velvet Underground Neil Young (a tad bit) Offspring Wizo The Ramones The Vandals Rancid The Sex Pistols Dropkick Murphys Garbage Pennywise Millencolin Black Sabbath wow.. I wish I had my cd case w/ me right now... perhaps I'll think of more later... |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Those responding to my punk post -- Let us agree to disagree, then. Friday I'm in Love |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Stone Temple Pilots (first 2 cds) Pearl Jam (first 2 cds) Temple of the Dog Victor Wooten |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
*raises eyebrow* Mike- Are you citing 'Friday I'm in Love' as a punk example of their music, or simply saying that's it's friday, and you're in love? If it's the former, I must vehemently disagree, but if it's the latter, then I .Local Parasite- Was I remiss in calling Depeche Mode industrial? I only listened to one of their CD's a few times because I thought it sucked, but they seemed to use a lot of synth, but went for a darker edge rather than poppy/upbeat. That, to my knowledge was the general definition of industrial- but like I said I'm not the authority on them. Correct me then- what do you call them? |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
I'd say Depeche Mode are something more like synthpop or EBM... "industrial" is a term invented by Throbbing Gristle way back when... it was meant to describe music that uses nonmusical elements, and is free of rock influences... the word "industrial" was chosen as a name for their record company originally, because it was supposedly as cold and heartless a name as they could muster. Of course, Throbbing Gristle were a bunch of whackos. Their live preformances often involved them, well, extracting certain fluids from their bodies and finding creative ways of returning them to their bodies...  and that's not even the start of it.Nowadays it refers to music that is not necessarily "dark" as you put it, but mainly just emotionless and cold. A lot of people feel that industrial is a counterculture to goth, whereas a lot of others seem to think they're almost interrelated. I'm not sure myself, there's definitely some overlap and that's to be expected. Personally, I think it's all in the intent of the music. Most bands that I know, that are industrial, focus on themes in their music and are observational, not emotional. If you listen to Plastic Assault, for example, you'll see a focus on violence. No feelings or sentiments, just violence. Hocico deals with the deplorability of the human race, etc. The sound of industrial music can be anything technoish, klunky or beepy, or even have guitar elements in it, as long as it doesn't make you feel happy or sad or whatever. Depeche Mode's music is too feeling to be industrial... It goes beyond "dark synth." A lot of people use the term "darkwave," but I try to avoid that term, 'cause it sounds kind of dumb. If you want some idea what industrial music is, try to download something by Plastic Assault, Funker Vogt, Hocico, VoID CoNSTRUCT or Suicide Commando... or go straight for the source and download some of the earlier stuff, like Cabaret Voltaire, or "Hamburger Lady" by Throbbing Gristle... one of the most disturbing songs you'll ever hear... Thanks for asking... I love talking about this obviously, hehe... [This message has been edited by Local Parasite (12-06-2002 03:22 PM).] |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
For further reading: http://brainwashed.com/tg/industrial.html |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
And let's not forget Skinny Puppy, those Canadian maniacs! Is there any better title of a record ever than VIVIsect VI? Didn't think so. And is there a cooler name than Nivek, which is Kevin backwards? Actually, the closest that the Cure ever came to punk was on their Three Imaginary Boys/Boys Don't Cry album. Then they went wonderfully insane themselves, with Seventeen Seconds (ooo), Faith (aaaa), and Pornography (hhhhhh). Followed by their inexplicable foray into fractured pop bliss. Well, that's as far as I'll get into that. "I'm a man of flesh and bone. Rapture rushing in my veins. Passions flaming in my heart. Heavenly surrender once again." -Depeche MXgasattackMikey |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
I'm almost ashamed to have forgot Skinny Puppy, Mikey. What cooler name than VIVISectVI? how about Too Dark Park? hehe... |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
True, Too Dark Park is an awesome title. But I just love the bizarre asymmetry of VIVIsectVI. And I saw one video of theirs, which I don't even remember the name of. At one point, these surgeons are pulling bloody wads of money out of a man's mouth. Then a clown bursts in with a telegram. The man tears it open to read "U OWE ME AN APOLOGY." HA HA HA HA! God, I love those twisted freaks. [This message has been edited by bsquirrel (12-06-2002 03:57 PM).] |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Okay, my last few points, then I'm off to work. First of all, with the goth/industrial sorta mixing. I find the same thing, Local Parasite. I've got a bunch of underground comps -- mostly from Cleopatra Records, but still -- and they love to combine goth and industrial. Which, in some ways, is interesting. And yes, the sounds do meld a bit. But a lot of goth can be self-pitying or intentionally campy, or floridly poetic and romantic. Whereas industrial is basically "Welcome to the machine, human nothing." So, while the sounds mix because both genres employ some dirgelike and nihilistic ideas, the lyrics always throw me for a loop. (and yet, I listen to both avidly, and enjoy the bands that throw around their brilliance, such as Skinny Puppy, and Bauhaus, and Sisters of Mercy etc. etc.) Now, as for punk. In the States, where punk arguably originated (through CBGB bands like the Ramones, Television and Blondie), it was about thumbing your nose at the status quo with intelligence and humor. To me, those bands were about saying thanks but no thanks to the current music scene of pomposity and sell-out -- basically, to construct noise in a D.I.Y. manner, and stick to your little vision of the world from your background. Kinda playful, because all that was at stake, really, was the music, and where you'd find your next fix. In England, however, where bands like the X-Ray Spex, Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Clash and the Sex Pistols flourished, it was about more than music. It was about trying to survive in a society that had grown more bleak and gray as the wars rolled out and the '60s was left staring itself in the mirror, all druggy and Fleetwood Mac'ed out, with Lennon trumpeting "I don't believe in Beatles" and the youth feeling like outcasts from the party they never got to experience. These bands were more about finding transcendence through nihilism and hedonism. And about stabbing the Queen in the back. I mean, the Sex Pistols rallying cry was "No future, no future, no future for you." Now, compare that to something like Blink 182. Yes, there's punk qualities in the members, but, to me, the music is about nothing more than itself, and about how snotty and bratty you can act. There music is basically one message -- this is Blink 182 music you're listening to. Even the Ramones, at their most pop-sugary, had a side of real and harrowing darkness. "Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue" and "I Wanna Be Sedated" being just two examples of that. And as for System of a Down? They're too studied in their musicianship. They're alt-metal by way of Frank Zappa, if anything. I don't hate them. In fact, I'm glad they found a voice on a radio dial clogged with Staind and Papa Roach songs. But, to me, anyway, they're not punk. Anyway, hope you enjoyed this little essay on something I feel passionate about, no matter how boneheaded and wrong my statements may actually be. Thanks for reading, and hope you check out some of the music. And now, I have to .... ugh ... "work." No Future |
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Marshalzu
since 2001-02-15
Posts 2681Lurking |
The Cooper Temple Clause Muse Ash My Vitriol Mew Coldplay JJ72 Doves System of a Down The Strokes The Vines The Libertines Electric Soft Parade Jet Plane Landing Hell is for heroes Biffy Clyro Feeder Polyphonic Spree Ani Difranco Avril Lavninge (Sp?) ... probably a few more I have forgotten |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
"I Wanna be Sedated" is the only Ramones song I really like. Regarding radio pop/punk, I agree that there's a definite difference, the punk of today mostly dealing with the limited scope of trouble with girls and other such things- but you know, I think some of Blink 182's trouble with girls songs are pretty good, at least, in their first two albums. No, it's not political (except in the case of 'Lifestyle of the Rich and famous', a song I quite like, and if you want to qualify it, 'Fat Lip' by Sum 41), but that's part of the evolution of music. I think the style at least qualifies a relation to its rougher, more politically-minded predecessors. I used to hate the pop/punk genre that I'm now defending, simply because I thought it was too peurile and substanceless... but I think that I've come to a more accepting point where I can accept substance in forms other than political protest, and I can appreciate the charm of songs about girls that actually make a cohesive sense, rather than the non-linear ramblings of corporate bubble-gum. I'm not saying there aren't drawbacks- because yeah, sometimes a bunch of (upper?) twenty-something guys whining cloying ballads to a whiny high-school audience can really get on my nerves... but sometimes, if I relax a little, I can see the fun in this type of music- and believe it or not, sometimes it strikes a chord. I guess I have to retract my statement ealier concerning Depeche Mode as industrial- not my place since I've never really listened to them a lot. I guess my classifications carry less weight also because of my limited scope when it comes to music- I like a lot, but I only know a few bands very well. I've spent the last two years memorizing Ani DiFranco's massive repoitoire, and the year and a half before that obsessively listening to Pink Floyd, with little room for other bands to get a song in edge-wise. And the year before that, NIN dominated my CD changer (to this day I have all the Halos up to The Fragile)... and after I get sick of Ani, I'll move on to something new for a year or two... it's how I work when it comes to music- so, I guess I don't know why I'm still typing and expecting people to read this... |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Does anybody like bands like Percy Faith and Henry Mancini? And what about Billy Joel, Burt Bacharach, Tom Jones... Now, my fiance, Gary, likes a lot of rock like....Godsmack, Warrant, Guns-N-Roses, Rob Zombie, Dio, Pat Benator, Bon Jovi, Poison, Cinderella, Motley Crue, Scorpions, Kiss, Korn....now, what kind of rock all this is, I have NO idea. ~Ethel~ |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
Ok first, how do you do the quote thing on this board? On other boards I belong to there's a button bar and you just click and it puts the stuff on it... I know the code and all, but does it work for me? Anyways, music hasn't always cashed in on the angst of teens, or been angry and loud. Music used to be about sending a message other than: "I'm pissed off, listen to me!". The cashing on teen angst started in the 1980s, but even the bands from then had a reasonable amount of talent, and they matured into something deeper. Like Queensryche. They used to just be a metal group similar to Iron Maiden, then they did Rage For Order(The Warning is the only one I don't have, so correct me if I'm wrong), which had their more complex progressive metal sound to it. Music hasn't always been angry and loud, either. Well, loud yes. But full of talentless anger? No. When rock first came about older people reacted as though it was corrupting America and was the devil's music. They thought it loud, raucus, and untalented. They were proven wrong because rock became the most popular kind of music in America and Europe. Now we have bands that have gotten similar reactions. The difference? They're not being revolutionary, they aren't doing anything new. In fact, they're actually doing less than most bands because they only play a few chords and they scream into the microphone in pretty much every song. Sure, I'm an angry teen, but I think I have a valid reason to be angry(I'm sure we all feel that way, though). The world is falling apart around us and I can see every little thing that is wrong with us. I don't listen to angry music... I listen to music that's complex, music that has many levels, and music that strays from the norm. Usually. Though some songs that aren't particulalry deep still sound good. Anyways, back to my point... That I can't remember... Oh yeah, the new angry crap music won't be around for much longer because teens grow up and lose all that angst. |
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Marshalzu
since 2001-02-15
Posts 2681Lurking |
With no spaces: [ q u o t e ] "message here" [ / q u o t e ] quote: |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Queensryche came out with the proverbial bang and went full tilt from there - if you liked Rage to Order, you'll like The Warning. I disagree with you about rock (music) not being loud and pointed toward teen angst though... it's all perspective. Elvis was once considered lewd, the Beatles loud and hard. It's all relative. When you're used to bee-bop, the Goo Goo Dolls sounds harsh, eh? Ramones... ick. There was something about that band that always just sat wrong with me... ironically, since one of my all-time favorite punk bands is the Misfits (Danzig's solo work was pretty good too, up to Demonsweat-gurgle-gag-me) which have a very similar sound and venue. Ah well, no accounting for taste. gg - Billy Joel, in my not-so-humble-opinion, is probably the best overall musician, entertainer, and singer we've ever had. Out of his ENTIRE repetoire (which is considerable to say the least) I only dislike one song. As a matter of fact, if i had to pick ONE song as a favorite, "Scenes From an Italian Restaurant" would be it. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Poetic justic- no, because a new generation of teens matures into that anger. Even if the same groups aren't still around (we all saw the pitiful downhill snowball effect of Maralyin Manson's career) new ones will take their place (because the end of Marilyn Manson was when more conventional asshole music like Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, P. Roach, and Eminem (although I actually like Eminem) took the stage). |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Weezer is cool. |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
quote: Yeah, but there will always be more pissed off teens to come. lol Besides, a life of anger gives empty people a lot of purpose. Just another form of illusion... and that 'angry crap music' feeds into it. They can be angry without thinking about it or moving forward. It makes it just as shallow as some pop music except that these pissed off little kids think they're 'deep' because they don't listen to Britney. It looks like the music itself is directly mirroring the complete lack of substance existing in our day to day lives. Everything is fast food and labels. "Yes, I'm punk because I shop at Hot Topic." *shakes her head* It's disappointing. By the way.. hush (I think you were the one that mentioned it) I was going to get an Ani DiFranco cd because a friend suggested her to me, but I wasn't sure which one to get. Which one would you suggest? i was here |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
What is silly about "angry teen music" is that the musicians are generally much older than the teens listening. Of course, pop music is generally the simplest form of music, which also makes it the least creative. This type of music becomes popular because the majority of people either do not have an ear for more challenging music or they are biased towards music they can't immediately understand or they just want something simple to learn and dance to. [This message has been edited by Opeth (12-07-2002 02:37 PM).] |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Enjoying this whole punk discussion, and I am going to confuse matters more, I believe that first there was proto punk which would include bands like the Stooges and New york dolls. These bands were the inspiration for the return to basics approach of punk. British punk tended as Mikey pointed out to be more political than US punk. To quote Mikey “It was about trying to survive in a society that had grown more bleak and gray” The Pistols spoke of “no future” much of the Clash’s first album looks at the radical tension (white riot), the boredom (London Burning, remote control) and the limited employment (career opportunities). That was just part of it, not all punk bands were political, the Buzzcock’s wrote mainly love songs or As Hush said songs about “trouble with girls and other such things” with songs such “ever fall in love?” and “ orgasm addict” as did Blondie. Their heavy keyboard sound makes them more New Wave than Punk Depeche Mode I would call electronic not industrial, By now I have probably bored everyone. I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
I like this discussion. I used to listen to Pink Floyd a lot, but now, not so much. By the time of the Wall, their music was so bloated, that it's no surprise people wore shirts with slogans like "I hate Pink Floyd." Now, their early early stuff is a different matter altogether, and that's the only Pink Floyd I really listen to anymore (with a few exceptions). A couple more proto-punk bands were the MC5 and the Velvet Undergound. From there is where esentially everything in the alternative rock category today came from. From the Velvet Underground, you can get to anything underground in the 80's (Pixies, REM, Jesus and Mary Chain, etc etc). And from there, you get to Nirvana and the explosion of the 90's grunge/post-grunge bands. I have a friend who contends Nirvana is really the only true grunge band and I can tend to agree. And today, there is the garage revival which can be traced straight back to the Velvet Underground, Stooges, etc. And like brian, I'm afraid I've bored everyone by now. Ryan |
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Ephraim Junior Member
since 2002-12-07
Posts 24 |
Well put, Jaime. |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
Oh look I exist after all. I was beginning to think it was a myth.  i was here |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Jaime- With Ani DiFranco, every CD has a totally different flavor. My favorites are her first CD, self titled, and Living in Clip, her first live album. The self-titled CD is just her and her guitar. It's really a great album- she wrote the songs when she was about my age (18-19) and I can't believe the scope of someone performing at that age, compared to, say, Avril Lavigne. I don't know much about guitars, but what she plays has a very intricate sound to it, and my friend's brother has played guitar for years and according to him, her music is very intricate and hard to learn. Lyrically, she's really good- very spoken-word artist meets musician. Her subjects go from love to abortion to politics in general to feminism... it's just a very solid album. Living in Clip has a pretty good sampling from all of her albums up to that time, and her passion on this album (a double CD) is absolutely phenomenal. It's a really good CD to get if you want a sampling of all her different styles- but just as an FYI, her live versions vary significantly from album versions of songs. If you're into improvisational live stuff, this is a great CD, but don't get too stuck in the style of it and expect album versions to sound the same. If you want me to blather on and on some more (I'd be happy to), please tell me. Without that request, I have to assume that everyone's bored of reading this. Opeth- I'd say that Weezer exudes cool like a designer imposter perfume. It's their schtick- "Hey ladies, look, we're ultra-liberal sweater-wearing horn-rimmed geeks, but we do drugs, ain't we cute and oh-so 1950's hip?" It sickens me. I liked the album with "Say it ain't so" on it, but after that, I have to give them a big thumbs down... they are all tacky glossy packaging if you ask me. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Ryan- I can see why you'd use the term bloated for 'The Wall' era Pink Floyd... the thing about that album is that it's a concept album, a damn huge one at that- it's almost impossible to pull it off without the proper theatricism- it needs to be pompous to work. You have to be a very arrogant artist to believe that you can conceptualize something that huge and intricate and pull it off- but in my opinion, they did, marvelously. That album, to me, is the equivalent of a 1500-page novel that you read and re-read incessantly, finding new intricacies every time you open it up. What can I say? It got into my head, and it took me well over a year to get it out. I'm kind of touch-and-go on Syd barret-era Floyd- the instrumentals (especially Interstellar Overdrive) are absolutely mindblowing- they wrote the song with the intention that it be listened to on LSD- I can safely say, even without that experience, that the song just completely distorts reality- especially when listened to on a pair of headphones... However, I'm not so hip on the poppy ballads they did... reminds me too much of the Beatles- I can respect the value inherent in the style, but it simply doesn't appeal to me that much. Obviously, I've got my soft spot for Roger Waters- after he left, "Pink Floyd" encountered a downward spiral into barely-above-average 80's synth-rock. (Ever listen to the song 'The Dogs of War'? *rolls eyes*) But I have got to get off of my Pink Floyd soapbox, or I'll rant about them all night. |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
hush -- I agree with what you say about the Wall. I once gave it much more credit than I do now (I even bought the live release of it the day it came out a few years ago). So maybe I just tired myself out on it. But listening to it now, other than individual moments (Run Like Hell), I just don't enjoy it much. I agree with you about Floyd's downfall after Waters left, though I kind of think it started after Dark Side of the Moon. Wish You Were Here is (in my opinion) an uneven album with a couple great songs and some I can't stand. I can't make it through anything on Animals at all (except the opening/closing acoustic song). I like a lot of their early stuff, both the instrumental stuff and the pop stuff. I have a feeling the pop songs would have developed more and improved each album if Syd hadn't lost it. I've always found it interesting that their Pink Floyd's debut came out a few months before Sgt. Pepper, yet Sgt. Pepper is what always gets the credit for the psychedelic pop song, I guess we can call it. The music on the albums between Syd leaving and Dark Side is probably as uneven as the stuff after Dark Side, but I think it's musically more appealing (Meddle is a good example). I should stop ranting now too for the good of everyone. Ryan (listen to Weezer's second album, it is the opposite of everything you described them as, so you might like it) |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
Opeth, I disagree that pop is the simplest form of music... One of the simpler forms, definetly, but not the simplest. I'd say rap is the simplest. If you consider it music, of course, which I don't... I find is discouraging that many people think that Pink Floyd went way down hill after Waters left... A Momentary Lapse of Reason was the second of their albums I bought(Dark Side of the Moon was first, of course). I loved it. Every day for a period of three months I would look forward to coming home and listening to that cd... Signs of life being a mellow, almost trance, piece, with learning to fly being unusually poppy for a Floyd song, The Dogs of War an OK(I appreciate it more now) song, but leading up to something better. One Slip has pretty cool bass, but I think the song was pretty weak for being the title song(or whatever you call it)... On The Turning Away is a beautiful piece, though. Lyrically and musically it just plain rocks. The New Machine things are kinda weird... Terminal Frost is pretty cool, a good instrumental. And Sorrow was is also really good, though I think they should have had the full versions of Marooned and Echoes on Echoes instead of it. The Division Bell is one of my favorite albums. The whole thing shows that even though they're old and greying, they can still make awesome, groundbreaking music. They even won a grammy for Marooned, one of their best instrumentals in my opinion. I don't really like their old psychadelic stuff though... I think if Syd hadn't left they wouldn't have gone nearly as far as they have. Astronomy Domine is OK, but I think they did it far better in Pulse. And some of the other stuff... Wow. I can't believe people could label DSOTM as acid rock and not Piper At the Gates of Dawn... Again, I say that music has not always been angry. Sure, parents thought Elvis and The Beatles to be terrible... But it's totally different. Did the Beatles ever sing about killing themselves or killing other people? Did they play no more than three chords? No. They sang about drugs and love and other random things(I don't listen to them an awful lot anymore), they weren't targetting angst ridden teens... I doubt they were targetting anyone. They were just expressing themselves. Same with Elvis. Parents hated him because he was too sexual, not because he was angry. I know new teens will replace the old ones... But music is an ever changing form of expression. That crap is "in" right now. Soon it'll be out, and no one will remember them. Hell, they may even be considered a terrible product of the decade, like pop stars from the 80s... Although I personally like 80s music(I was born in that decade, after all) What I find ironic here is that none of those bands actually have teens in them... They can't be angst ridden teens, so they are obviously targetting those kids on purpose. And I agree about the lack of depth involved. How does sayinghow angry you are and going "ahhhhhh" every now and then make you deep? To me, for a song to be deep, it must have good lyrics. However, to be good it must have good music. I like Pink Floyd and Queensryche and other progressive rock/metal bands because they are both. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Hush, ~ I haven't heard any of their music after their first two cds...and those, imo, were both very good. Not my favorite genre of music, but light and unique. quote: ~ Rap is pop and is also not music...it is a form of poetry. So, I agree. quote: ~ They lost their edge after Water's left. [This message has been edited by Opeth (12-08-2002 10:16 AM).] |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
hush - Thanks for the help. I don't mind if you want to keep going. I have a chance at getting some of her CD's with Christmas coming and all so the guidance in picking the best CD's to start out with I can appreciate. --------------------------- I like to dance and I like to sing... so yes, sometimes rap, pop, and music relating to those types are fun to have around. I do like Eminem (okay, who's going to shake their head in disgust first? lol), but mostly all rap is about is killing people, sex, weed, 'hoes', and life on the streets. I understand the need to express 'life on the streets' because I'd be pissed off if someone told me I wasn't allowed to write about rape, manic depression, abuse, etc. - but that doesn't mean that you Only go in that direction. I was watching a profile on Snoop Dog and he said that he learned a lot from the past and decided he didn't want any part of the violence anymore. Okay, that's great, but what about the music? What about the message that you're sending out to your people? (Because yes, it does come back to colour. Still. Unfortunately.) Okay, I'm done now. i was here [This message has been edited by Jaime (12-08-2002 10:10 AM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
'I'd say rap is the simplest. If you consider it music, of course, which I don't...' WHAT does everybody HAVE against rap as an art form? Sometimes uppity white people (sorry to make an assumption) who can't even accept an art form that belongs primarily to another race really tick me off. Do you ever listen to the way rap artists use words? Opeth's right in calling it a form of poetry, but I would say it blurs the line between poetry and music- the music works around the word rhythms, rather than the other way around that you often find in rock and pop. It's about diversity. Does that mean I think 'kill'em-kill'em' ghetto rap is sending out a good message? No, of course not- it boils down to culture and color (I agree with you Jaime) and what is popular (practical?) in certain communities. But you can't malign an entire music genre for that, because there are people who amke positive rap songs- are they in the majority, no. But even if you don't agree with the message, in my opinion, the music form should be much more respected (especially in a poetic group) than it is. If we learn to respect the form, we can learn something from it. --- On Pink Floyd, I don't know what everyone gets their rocks off on DSOTM- of their three 'big' Albums of that era (The other two being the Wall and Wish you were here) I think it's the weakest. I understand why it's so groundbreaking, but lyrically, I think it could have had some more development. Ryan- I agree with you that Animals sucked. The concept could have been cool if it didn't fall so weightily within theparameters of cliche (I mean, come on, flying pigs, dogs, sheep....) I completely disagree on Wish You Were Here- that album is second only to The Wall in my estimation, and it comes close to rivaling it in some ways. Pink Floyd has a tendency to appeal mainly to intellect, and I thnk this album effectively shows their balance between intellect and emotion- hey these guys have feelings as well as smarts... cool. Jaime- The first Ani album I got was Not a Pretty Girl- if you are most accustomed to tradtional rock music, this is probably the easiest to get used to. If you like jazzier stuff, try To the Teeth (fairly political) or Revelling/Reckoning (more introspective). If you wnat something that sounds a little lighter, try Little Plastic Castle (probably her least political CD). Out of Range is a good album, also has kind of a lighter sound. Living in Clip is her first live album, So much Shouting, So much Laughter is her second. I think Living in Clip is better. And her self-titled, like I said before, blends simplicity and complexity amazingly well... good luck. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I would not put down rap music as an art form, whether I enjoy it or not. And I don't. I do believe it is a form of poetry, which includes the use of rhythm. If it is to be called a type of music, then the music portion is very simple, indeed. Too simple for my tastes. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I find the art of rap in of itself and attitude is very weak without strong background music and a singing voice accompanying. For ex. I liked "Gangsta's Paradise" by Coolio because it adds these very well. Also P!nk's "Respect." And there have been many others that use rap in this style, I think it is at its best like that. Just my opinion. [This message has been edited by Essorant (12-08-2002 03:04 PM).] |
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Stinky Twinkie Member
since 2002-11-26
Posts 204Dinwiddie |
Iced Earth Blind Guardian Opeth Pantera A Perfect Circle Dark Tranquility Nevermore Rhapsody Black Label Society and occassionaly...Sublime |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
It is good to know that there are some Opeth fans on this site. btw..My daughter loves Rhapsody. How could I forget A Perfect Circle? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Irony - one of my favorite Floyd songs is Dogs of War. Go figure. A Perfect Circle... rocks, right up there (of course) with Tool. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Iced Earth is dissapointingly bad. And somehow I never understood the popularity of A Perfect Circle. Maybe I'm missing something. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I am missing more. I've never heard of either!  |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Yes, Christopher, Billy Joel is one of the best all-around entertainers ever to be on this planet, I think. I also like Elton John and John Denver.. (Yeah, I know they're not in the same categories, but I still like to hear both their musical talents.) But....I'm still wondering, does anybody here still like to listen to instumentals, like Percy Faith and Henry Mancini??  ~Ethel~ [This message has been edited by garysgirl (12-08-2002 03:34 PM).] |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Poetic Justice, I disagree with your comments about rap being the simplest form. Why is it? because the music is often made of samples, no "real" instruments are used, what about techno music? Often has no lyrics, surely that is simpler. Like all forms of music there is alof bad rap out there, i am no expert on rap it is not really to my taste expect for Public Enemy and The Roots. "Sure, parents thought Elvis and The Beatles to be terrible... But it's totally different. Did the Beatles ever sing about killing themselves or killing other people" Charles Manson thought they did. "]They can't be angst ridden teens, so they are obviously targetting those kids on purpose. And I agree about the lack of depth involved. How does sayinghow angry you are and going "ahhhhhh" every now and then make you deep" This I agree with, it does annoy me how these bands fake their angst, ok most of the music i listen to is angst ridden, but you could hardly say that Nick Cave and Leonard Cohen are wallowing in self loathing. Jamie what you said about rap is a mistake generalisation, what about some white hard rock bands? the same glorifaction of sex, violence and drugs can be found in their lyrics too. As i said my knowledge of rock is limited but many artists do come from crime ridden places and are reflecting the reality of their lifes. I mean what message does the Kurt Cobain t-shirt "I hate myself and I want to die" send out to the teens of today? Its all relative. I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine [This message has been edited by brian madden (12-08-2002 04:03 PM).] |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
Brian - You're right. I was being general about rap music that I hear/see on BET or on the radio or whatever being about the same types of things. I had a boyfriend that was obsessed with DMX at one point so I bought the cd and every song on there was about gangster life. Now sure, I liked it, but when I was saying that I wish they'd write about more than just that - it's being general because not all rap artists are the same and it was also me commenting on society. I was sticking to the subject of rap since that's what I was talking about in the first place, but you're absolutely right about rock bands and such sending out the same messages but in different ways. I don't think I've heard very much of a Perfect Circle. Would anyone mind refreshing my memory? I'm sure that I've heard their songs somewhere. (I don't listen to the radio) What are some of their songs? hush - Thanks for the help. I think I'll go with her first CD. I generally like to start from the beginning, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to pick up a cd I wouldn't get too much out of. i was here [This message has been edited by Jaime (12-08-2002 04:11 PM).] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Rap is simple with regards to the musical portion of it. Where are the musicians? The bass lines are as basic as can be. Now with regards to lyrical content, that is a different story and I won't judge the lyrics, I am only judging the music. Simply put, I can play any rap bass line and I am a novice guitarist. But the music I enjoy the most, it would take a steady dedication to learn how to play it. Rap is poetry with a beat. It is not music. [This message has been edited by Opeth (12-08-2002 04:02 PM).] |
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Red Member
since 2000-01-01
Posts 143Ca |
ohhhh music, one of my favourite topics Joni Mitchell Harry Chapin Ben Harper Bob Marley Jefferson Airplane/Starship Tool John Coltrane Wynton Marsalis I'm sure there's more, but most of my top ones have already been said!! |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Opeth, "Rap is simple with regards to the musical portion of it." I agree that much of rap's music is simple, but this is due to the fact that there is a large emphasis on the lyrics. Just bceause its simple does not mean its not music. Some punk songs only have three chords, the Velvet Underground used basic structures and chords. Some techno is very basic, often sampling large parts of other dance songs, its still music regardless of the technique or musicanship. I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
When I watch tv shows when Rap groups are featured, all I ever see are about 5 guys, one to two rappers, and a "posse" that stands there looking tough or dancing. In the back is a DJ spinning discs. The musical bass line which provides the beat is recorded. Whenever I hear rap, it is always the same with regards to rhythm, the only difference comes from the tempo from time to time... As I said, it is form of poetry with a "beat" behind it. It is not music. Mozart would roll over in his grave if he knew rap was declared to be music. I am not putting it down as an art form. It is just not music. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
quote: ~ However, it is still music, because it is the music that is in the forefront, not just a beat. Personally, I don't like much of that genre of music anyway. It doesn't challenge me. I want to be challenged. I want to learn what I am hearing. That doesn't mean from time to time I don't mind listening to simple songs, but when I do, they must be better than simple crappy music like most of pop music today. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
For classical, I recommend: Tchaikovsky's Sixth Symphony ~ when one can learn the intricacies of this, they would most definitely appreciate it. For metal, I recommend: My Arms, Your Hearse by Opeth. Probably one of the most difficult to understand cds that I have ever listened to in this particular genre of music. A masterpiece, indeed. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
for metal, my favourite band is still In Flames. I just can't tear myself away from songs like Bullet Ride. |
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Red Member
since 2000-01-01
Posts 143Ca |
"...there exists a primeval state of music, a state prior to its history, a state before the first questionings, before the first reflections, before the first games with motif and theme. That primeval state of music (music without thought) mirrors the human being's inherent stupidity. It required an immense effort of heart and mind for music to rise above that essential stupidity, and it is that splendid arc over centuries of European history which has been extinguished like a skyrocket at the peak of its trajectory. The history of music is perishable, but the idiocy of guitars is eternal. Music nowadays has returned to its primeval state. It is the state after the last questioning, after the last reflection, the state after its history." --Kundera Doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion, but I think it definately holds some truth!!! Rap, good? Never!! lol j/k-- I listen to it sometimes even though I have a hard time justifying it as music! |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
quote: I dunno... I have a hard time considering something someone makes solely for the purpose of gettin richer poetry... Maybe the first stuff that came out back in the 80s, but it's been warped and corrupted so much that it's a shadow of its former self. I guess it could be considered poetry, be-bop(or whatever it's called) the stuff from the 50s that was all free thought and had bongos and saxophones and other jazz instruments backing it up is similar to rap I guess. Except more positive. quote: Yes. And they all do it the exact same way with similar themes throughout. Except for the crap Aaron Carter is putting out... Ugh. He's worse than the teeney-bop pop. Not only does he not have any talent, he's only popular because his big brother had no talent. quote: Actually, Animals was another big one. Not as big as the other three, it still was very successful. And lyrically? Time rocks. It's about how we take life for granted... And money is about how we take life for granted. And Us & Them is about other stuff... I dunno. I haven't actually sat down and read the lyrics to that one. quote: But was it really cliche back then? It was based on George Orwell's Animal Farm. Similar themes throughout, and Sheep is one of my theme songs(other one being Comfortably Numb). quote: Whereas techno has synthesized instruments, rap has none, except maybe a bass guitar or drums playing a beat in the background. A techno artist needs to know what notes to put into the computed. I sincerely doubt Snoop Dogg or P. Diddy knows an F sharp from a B flat, or what treble clefs and bass clefs are. quote: Charles Manson was a lunatic. He saw things that weren't there, whereas it's all too blatant what new "artists"(I say "artists" because splattering paint on the wall isn't art in my book, no matter what modern artists say) say in their lyrics. So, are you saying that anyone who knows what those lyrics are about are mass murderers? quote: I have never heard a rock song(with the exception of the new stuff that we're all arguing about) glorifying violence. And I've never heard one come right out and say "drugs are good, do them". Course, I've never listened to a few bands that were notorious for that kind of stuff... Maybe 1% of all rock fits the above criteria. Almost all of rap does. quote: He didn't make that, though. Kurt didn't want anything to do with the spotlight, he just wanted to make music(and do drugs) in peace. Rap is not music. Poetry, maybe. But I sure as hell don't consider it to be. The lyrics are very simple, very easy to come up with. When I first went into High School my friend and I would spend our free time in Physics writing raps. They were kinda cool I guess, but they had no emotional value. I don't see any emotional value in real rap either. Talking about the "gangster life" is all fine and dandy, but they aren't saying they want to get out of it. They're talking about how much weed they smoke and how many hoes they screw and how many cops they bust a cap in. If I had a choice of being able to only listen to rap for the rest of my life, or N'Sync's greatest hits, I'd choose the N'Sync one. Course if that happened the rest of my life would probaby somewhere around seven hours... And yes, techno is pretty simple a lot of the time. I happen to prefer some of the more complex techno artists(the dance club stuff just doensn't appeal to me), like Digital Droo and Torley Wong. |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
Being a big fan/admirer/consumer of "rap," this discussion interests me. I'll be back when I can give an in-depth reply. Also being a fan of rock, techno, celtic, dance, trance, pop, nu-metal, crooners, instrumental, and many others, I can look at this thing from a few pov's. Nifty. ~Titus "A life unexamined is not worth living." -Socrates [This message has been edited by PoetryIsLife (12-09-2002 04:27 PM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Chrsitpher, I am shaking my head... That would, of course, be Christopher... I guess I can hardly criticize your musical taste if I can't spell your name legibly, now can I? Poetic Justice, I'll be back for a more thorough commentary on your last post. No time right now... [This message has been edited by hush (12-09-2002 05:23 PM).] |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
 Jaime, I won't shake my head at the Eminem reference. Why? He's one of my favorite artists, not for what he says, but how and why he says it. One: he's one of the best 'rap' artists, I feel, to come on the scene in a long while, and two: he doesn't give a damn. People can question his lyrics all they want, but the way he delivers them is superb, to me. You may say "he's too mainstream now," which is true, and for a lot of artists, that's a bad thing. For Eminem, just listen to "Lose Yourself." No gimmicks, just Eminem and his talent, at it's best.As far as what rap is and what it's not... "I understand the need to express 'life on the streets' because I'd be pissed off if someone told me I wasn't allowed to write about rape, manic depression, abuse, etc. - but that doesn't mean that you Only go in that direction." For many rappers, who are in it for rap itself, for those on the streets, to improve this world before they're done with it, there isn't anything besides the streets. It is the streets. The life. Look at Tupac Shakur, who I believe to be the best rap artist there ever was (many agree with me -- look how many damn albums he's sold -- though album sales aren't a true reflection of talent -- look at those who bought Eminem merely to say what they truly thought of him.) Tupac was educated, he went to a prestigious school (Baltimore School of the Arts), he knew fine arts, he even wrote poetry: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671028448/qid=1039490676/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-5507499-0736940 He had dreams beyond the ghetto, beyond the streets, but that never meant he was above the streets. His life was the street, but he knew there was more then it. "Opeth's right in calling it a form of poetry, but I would say it blurs the line between poetry and music- the music works around the word rhythms, rather than the other way around that you often find in rock and pop. " "many artists do come from crime ridden places and are reflecting the reality of their lifes. " "I had a boyfriend that was obsessed with DMX at one point so I bought the cd and every song on there was about gangster life. Now sure, I liked it, but when I was saying that I wish they'd write about more than just that." Sometimes, all you can rap about is what is real to you, what is your own personal reality. There may be other realities out there, but if you can't see it as real to you, then it's irrelevant, for some. "I agree that much of rap's music is simple, but this is due to the fact that there is a large emphasis on the lyrics. Just bceause its simple does not mean its not music. Some punk songs only have three chords, the Velvet Underground used basic structures and chords. Some techno is very basic, often sampling large parts of other dance songs, its still music regardless of the technique or musicanship. " "As I said, it is form of poetry with a "beat" behind it. It is not music. Mozart would roll over in his grave if he knew rap was declared to be music. I am not putting it down as an art form. It is just not music. it is still music, because it is the music that is in the forefront, not just a beat. " Music (n.) 1. The art of arraigning sounds in time to produce a composition that elicits an aesthetic response in a listener. 2. Vocal or instrumental sounds having some degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm 3. A musical composition. 4. Aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds. Rap (n) 1. slang A talk or conversation. 2. A form of popular music marked by spoken or chanted rhyming lyrics with a rhythmic accompaniment. What one sees as music isn't always what others see as music. We all have different point of views. That's the beauty of it all -- there's generally something for everyone. "Talking about the "gangster life" is all fine and dandy, but they aren't saying they want to get out of it. They're talking about how much weed they smoke and how many hoes they screw and how many cops they bust a cap in." Why must they say they want to get out of it? That's their life, and it's perfectly fine for them. I'm done. I don't know if I made any sense. I just wanted to put in a few words. Sincerely, Titus "A life unexamined is not worth living." |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Poetic Justice- 'I dunno... I have a hard time considering something someone makes solely for the purpose of gettin richer poetry...' Are rap artists the only musicians who get rich? To qoute Eminiem: "You best believe somebody's payin' the Pied Piper..." 'Yes. And they all do it the exact same way with similar themes throughout.' Uh... no? Okay, I can't claim to be any kind of expert on rap, but simply from listening to twenty minutes of the local rap/RB station here, I would definitely say that rap has a lot more diversity in it that alt/rock. Almost everyone who has a guitar right now is so busy whining about how and why life sucks. I can only take so much of that. But different rap artist do delivery lines in different ways, and they do sing about different things. Yes, there are similar themes, but there are similar themes in all music genres, so that's a moot point. '. And lyrically? Time rocks.' I agree. Time is one of my favorite Floyd songs. I never said DSOTM is a bad album- it's not. But I don't think it's as consistently strong throughout as the other two I mentioned- I don't like Us & Them, or any song after it, very much. 'I have never heard a rock song(with the exception of the new stuff that we're all arguing about) glorifying violence.' Um... do you actually ever listen to rock? Ever here that Bad Habit song by the Offspring? What about, um, and Marilyn Manson? ("Let's just kill everyone and let your God sort them out"?) That's not glorifying violence? I could think of more, given time... 'And I've never heard one come right out and say "drugs are good, do them".' Uh, have you ever been to a concert? Let me cite the bands that I've personally heard openly encourage the crowd to smoke pot: Live Fuel Kid Rock (no surprise) Counting Crows (would you believe that?) Uncle Kracker Local H Korn This is considering the limited number of rock concerts I've actually been to. 'The lyrics are very simple, very easy to come up with.' I don;t think so. I don't think I could come up with rap lyrics, even relatively simple ones about bling-blinging it, let alone more complicated ones (they do exist. I cite Eminem as one example.) 'They were kinda cool I guess, but they had no emotional value. I don't see any emotional value in real rap either. Talking about the "gangster life" is all fine and dandy, but they aren't saying they want to get out of it. They're talking about how much weed they smoke and how many hoes they screw and how many cops they bust a cap in.' I realize that there is a lot of rap devoted to this- but there's also a lot of rap that isn't. You aren't even taking into account female rap artists. I don't remember the last time I heard Missy Elliot rap aout 'screwing a hoe.' You know, Ani DiFranco incorporates a lot of rap rhythms into her songs- go listen to the track from Living in Clip that combines the poem 'the Slant' and the song 'The Diner.' Or go download her song 'Swing'. Or try (I think her name is) Sarah Jones' 'Your Revolution.' You might be pleasantly surprised by all these. |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Hush, of course KROQ bands are going to do what they can to stay in the spotlight. I have a distaste for all of them. I'm not going to slap rap -- I love Public Enemy and Grandmaster Flash -- but your citing of "rock" lyrics isn't very applicable to the entire spectrum. To begin, that Marilyn Manson quote you chose? Is actually a rallying call for a segment of the U.S. military. He's using it as irony. Another song, in a similar vein, goes "Do you love your god? Yeah! Guns? Yeah! Government?" Another example of his lyrics: "The nervous system's down, the nervous system's down I know. I can never get out of here. I will always just float in fear. A dead astronaut in space." Marilyn Manson is a master of duality in his music. (Obvious by his name alone) Saying "The nervous system's down" implies the nervous system, and it also implies a machine. To me, that's a little more depth than "Smoke pot." Also, some of the most poetic, beautiful lyrics I know are in rock. Radiohead's Pyramid Song: "Jumped in the river. Black-eyed angels swam at me. In a room of stars and astral cars. All the friends I used to see. All my lovers were there with me -- all my past and future. Went to heaven in a little row boat. There's nothing to fear, nothing to doubt." Nirvana's Heart-Shaped Box: "Cut myself on angel hair and baby's breath." And that's just sticking to recent examples. Rock also knows how to poke fun at itself. Witness the dumb (and savage) chorus of Blur's Girls & Boys: "Girls who are boys who like girls to be boys who do boys like they're girls who do girls like they're boys. Always should be someone you really love." It's up to you to look for something beyond the radio fodder. Otherwise, you're slagging off a whole genre without the proper knowledge of it first. It's out there. |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
First of all to address Poetic Justice’s comments “I have a hard time considering something someone makes solely for the purpose of gettin richer poetry” Personally I don’t see how you could feel that rap is made solely for commercial purposes, surely the often explicit language used in some rap songs means that it is going to get limited radio play. If you made this comment about manufactured pop. I could understand. That is something based solely on making money, there is no real artistic merit. Even rap, whatever your stance on it, has artistic merit. “And they all do it the exact same way with similar themes throughout” try listening to Public Enemy’s Power to the People “I sincerely doubt Snoop Dogg or P. Diddy knows an F sharp from a B flat, or what treble clefs and bass clefs are.” First of all P. Diddy is not rap in my mind he is just (c)rap. MY comments on Charles Manson were to illustrate that people can misinterpret lyrics and find justification for their own actions in the lyrics. Look at the fact that a senate committee examined Marilyn Manson’s lyrics and a few years later his lyrics were blamed for inspiring the teens who committed the Columbine massacre. It was later revealed that the teens were not even fans of Marilyn Manson. A lot of rap is very grim, life on the streets is not by any means painted as being appealing. Ok some of it like canibus, yes they do glorify drugs, but what about Brown sugar by the rolling stones, and some of the doors songs. Dandy Warhols are also have a lot of drug references. “He didn't make that, though. Kurt didn't want anything to do with the spotlight, he just wanted to make music(and do drugs) in peace.” My point on this was that his suicide has been exploited, that T-shirt helps enforce a certain sense of martyrdom, it could be misinterpreted as a glamorisation of suicide. While we are quoting lyrics "Played by the gate at the foot of the garden My view stretches out from the fence to the wall No words could explain, no actions determine Just watching the trees and the leaves as they fall " The eternal by JOY DIVISION (Ian Curtis) I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
BSquirrel- Marilyn Manson is a master at marketing to people who want to feel justified in hating the world. I don't need a lecture on his music, believe me, I know it well. I am speaking from the point of view of a former 15-year-old devotee. The only album I don't claim to know well is "Holy Wood," because I thought it was so bad I could barely listen to it. I liked a few songs, but, I mean, Coma Black? That was too much for me. What segment of the military uses that quote as its rallying call? Curiosities sake... I read a study once, a few years ago, that cited the sources from which Marylin Manson culls his songs- compiling everything from baselines to lyrics to ideas from movies- I can't remember the web site or anything, and I don't know how many of those hold up because most of the sources were things I wasn't very familiar with, or fit to judge. I thought it was interesting though. If you want to justify "Irresponsible Hate Anthem," that's fine... because the song was supposed to be a reflection of Floyd's 'In The Flesh' to begin with... fine, I can see it being irony, I can see his intended parallel to 'The Wall,' I can even see the merit in mirroring a classic band's masterpiece, kind of. But you know what, I'm sorry, that album, taken in context, is a rationalization of hatred. You can try to drape it over some societal contextual distortion, but it says what it says. It's a rallying call for people who feel sorry for themselves to turn that self-loathing into something empowering, something they can take out on other people... "Hey victim, you're the one who put the stick in my hand..." Once again, though, we're back to the intended irony of that song... Do you call the entire album sarcasm, though? And, as far as Mechanical Animals goes... thank you, Marilyn Manson, for being the David bowie of my generation... except he's not as fun about it. Shock-rock about sums it up when it comes to him... Do you think I was maligning rock as a genre? Because I wasn't. I was illustrating that, yes, there are rock songs that glorify violence. Yes, rock artists do promote drugs, even if they aren't actively writing about doing drugs. Syd Barret wanted people to listen to his music on LSD... Pointing out examples of violence and drugs in rock & roll wasn't an attempt on my part to rally against it, but to show both sides of a coin. |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
Ok first I wanna say that the new Rock you all keep comparing with rap is also something I'm against. I believe I said earlier that they're just exploiting teen angst... The reason rap artists make rap is because they have no other musical knowledge, and rap is easy to make. Like I said, my friend and I used to rap a lot in class a couple years ago. Think about it, if you don't know guitar, music, or singing, what can you do to enter the music business? You can talk fast about the "street life", put a beat in the background, and call it music. I could put a beat this paragraph and call it music. And I think Marylin Manson is a necessary part of music. There aren't any controversial icons that piss uber-conservatives off anymore, except him. We need someone to keep authority in check. Marylin Manson is essentially the less talented Ozzy Osbourne of our time. quote: I hate that. These days everyone is into saying everything is art, well it's not. Everything has beauty, but not everything is art. Like I said before about the paint splattering against the wall, that is not art. I could crunch this McDonalds cup up right now and put a bottle cap on top and people would call it art. It's not. quote: Charles Manson was the only man out of millions who interpreted the music this way. The Beatles were incredibly popular pop stars in the 60s with trippy and innocent lyrics. Marylin Manson is someone who basks in his controversy and goes out of his way to piss more conservative people off. I'm not saying that song lyrics affect people's actions. If they do, you're a moron. They tried to blame everything violent on the Columbine shooting, like Doom and other computer games, TV, and songs, while totally disregarding the fact that cruel little monsters were putting the shooters through hell every school day. There is a breaking point, and I personally don't blame the shooters for killing their tormentors. The innocent kids, however, is a different story. quote: And instead of being active in trying to fix things, god forbid they do that, they make disgusting amounts of money off of their experiences, or at least stuff they've heard of. quote: If a shirt makes you kill yourself then maybe the world is a better place without you. I know that sounds harsh, but this is what this incredibly jaded 17 year old thinks. quote: Hey... I like the way that sounds... So true, too. quote: You also need to realize that back then people didn't know drugs mess you up like they do now. And most of those drugs(with the exception of pot and heroin) were legal at that time. My theme songs: Comfortably Numb(Pink Floyd) Jaded(Aerosmith) Sheep(Pink Floyd) Dogs(Pink Floyd) Anybody Listening? (Queensryche) I Will Remember (Queensryche) |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
man, Hush... Mechanical Animals was the only Manson album I absolutely dug... Of course, Ziggy Stardust rocked too... LOL.*rolls eyes* peace all |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Poetic justice 'Like I said before about the paint splattering against the wall, that is not art.' I wouldn't compare rao, as a whole, to 'paint on a wall.' There are lackadasical examples from any music genre- so yes, I'll agree that some examples of rap are bad... and some examples of rock, and some examples of pop, etc. Every genre has its bad apples. But rap requires an understanding of how words go together, of rhythm and flow. Some rap artists (I do emphasize artists) utilize these necessary components better than others. 'There aren't any controversial icons that piss uber-conservatives off anymore, except him. We need someone to keep authority in check.' Neither does he anymore. His heyday is over. And why do we need somebody to keep authority in check? Are we, as a populace, so stupid as to hand over our power to some celebrity in hopes that he's going to take care of everything for us by making some fat-cat Christians in Washington mad? Thanks, but no thanks, I can question authority without having to have some icon of hate do it for me. 'while totally disregarding the fact that cruel little monsters were putting the shooters through hell every school day. There is a breaking point, and I personally don't blame the shooters for killing their tormentors.' You have a lot of growing up to do then. I'm sorry, but making fun of someone shouldn't make you deserving of some nutcase's viglante death penalty. Give me a break. 'If a shirt makes you kill yourself then maybe the world is a better place without you. I know that sounds harsh, but this is what this incredibly jaded 17 year old thinks.' No, it sound immature. If someone is to that point, anything probably could trigger them. Suicidal music/marketing just might be that trigger. I'm not saying lay the blame on the artist, but saying 'the world is better' without someone is unneccessarily cruel. 'Hey victim, you're the one who put the stick in my hand..." Hey... I like the way that sounds... So true, too.' You like the sound of that... so, because we Americans basically trained and armed the Taliban, did we deserve the terrorist attack we got? Do scantily-clad women deserve to be raped? You can't just push the blame from your action off onto the person that you did it to- once again, that's immature and exceedingly irresponsible. 'You also need to realize that back then people didn't know drugs mess you up like they do now. And most of those drugs(with the exception of pot and heroin) were legal at that time.' That doesn't change the fact that they're still popular, not just with ordinary people, but with celebrities, including musicians from all genres. Didn't you see the Whitney Houston interview the other night? Chris... it looks like we're just not going to see eye-to-eye on the music thing now, are we? Oh well... |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
quote:Absolutely not! (But they better not get mad when I stare! )And no, it doesn't look like it, but that's cool. I think you're OK... even if you don't have good taste in music! |
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Allysa
since 1999-11-09
Posts 1952In an upside-down garden |
I believe it is now time for me to throw in my two cents about this... or I would feel left out and sad.... so here it goes... Well having recent conversation w/ my boyfreind's ex-best friend's roomate, I came across a relization. He said that "The worst artists imitate and the best artists steal". I believe this was discussed in a New York interview w/ John Lennon, but I'll have to check w/ Doug to be sure... Anyways, this is relevant to todays music. Bands like Blink 182, Sum 41, Good Charlotte, Green Day... etc. are trying to slightly imitate the music from the past. There only motivation, it seems, is money. True punk music is not defined as anything, it is whatever people make it to be. The Sex Pistols were awesome because they were not exactly like anything else. Punk is so diverse that it would be a shame to throw it in a some category to be shared with such above mentioned (Sum 41, Simple Plan, etc.) pop rock bands. The Ramones never cease to amaze me. Over the past year my collection of their music has grown from simply having the anthology, to possesing Ramones Mania, and several other cds, all of which I find to be incredibly wonderful. But punk isn't limited to the sounds of the past. There are plenty of OUTSTANDING punk bands still around today... WIZO, a german punk band is an excellent example. I urge anyone interested in this music to download some WIZO (I highly suspect it would be difficult to find some of their cds due to them only being made in Germany, I think). Quadrat Im Kries (I think I got the spelling right) is an excellent song, as are Tod im Freidbad (another, I think I got the spelling right, if not I apologize..) while I have to say that the only tolerable Blink song is Carousel. Another question brought to my mind... What the heck i It seems as if it is only Blink minus one member... Same style, same tunes, two out of three of the same members... Did Blink realize they were sell outs and decide to attempt to make even more money by short-sheeting the impressionable youth of America? Maybe its just me. Today's good punk bands do exactly as mentioned in first paragraph. They steal SOME ideas (not all, not most, just some) from the pastmasters, and use it to better there music... Another great band that I can think of is Primus. For anyone who hasn't heard Primus, it's great... You should check it out. They have excellent bass lines. There is so much more to the music world than simply crappy pop-rock "I wanna be punk" bands out there... you just have to look a little harder to find it. "Wie ein Quadrat in einem Kreis, eck' ich immer wieder an obwohl ich doch schon lange weiß, daß ich niemals ändern kann." ~Wizo |
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Allysa
since 1999-11-09
Posts 1952In an upside-down garden |
I believe it is now time for me to throw in my two cents about this... or I would feel left out and sad.... so here it goes... Well having recent conversation w/ my boyfreind's ex-best friend's roomate, I came across a relization. He said that "The worst artists imitate and the best artists steal". I believe this was discussed in a New York interview w/ John Lennon, but I'll have to check w/ Doug to be sure... Anyways, this is relevant to todays music. Bands like Blink 182, Sum 41, Good Charlotte, Green Day... etc. are trying to slightly imitate the music from the past. There only motivation, it seems, is money. True punk music is not defined as anything, it is whatever people make it to be. The Sex Pistols were awesome because they were not exactly like anything else. Punk is so diverse that it would be a shame to throw it in a some category to be shared with such above mentioned (Sum 41, Simple Plan, etc.) pop rock bands. The Ramones never cease to amaze me. Over the past year my collection of their music has grown from simply having the anthology, to possesing Ramones Mania, and several other cds, all of which I find to be incredibly wonderful. But punk isn't limited to the sounds of the past. There are plenty of OUTSTANDING punk bands still around today... WIZO, a german punk band is an excellent example. I urge anyone interested in this music to download some WIZO (I highly suspect it would be difficult to find some of their cds due to them only being made in Germany, I think). Quadrat Im Kries (I think I got the spelling right) is an excellent song, as are Tod im Freidbad (another, I think I got the spelling right, if not I apologize..) while I have to say that the only tolerable Blink song is Carousel. Another question brought to my mind... What the heck i It seems as if it is only Blink minus one member... Same style, same tunes, two out of three of the same members... Did Blink realize they were sell outs and decide to attempt to make even more money by short-sheeting the impressionable youth of America? Maybe its just me. Today's good punk bands do exactly as mentioned in first paragraph. They steal SOME ideas (not all, not most, just some) from the pastmasters, and use it to better there music... Another great band that I can think of is Primus. For anyone who hasn't heard Primus, it's great... You should check it out. They have excellent bass lines. There is so much more to the music world than simply crappy pop-rock "I wanna be punk" bands out there... you just have to look a little harder to find it. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
I have a feeling Allysa might be a punk fan... |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
(smiles) Though I turn off the radio every time I write a poem unless it is a tribute to the artist him or herself, I always listen to music otherwise. I believe music is the universal language, which possesses a harmony and spiritual connection that so many other aspects of life lacks. The only kind of music I don't listen to is that which is racially offensive, or that where the lyrics may be outstanding yet the noise is so loud and the harmony is disrupted. Therefore, I think music is the most gorgeous gift to our children and it will always be thus for their childrens children and so on! Shakira is my favorite artist because not only she is extremely talented in many areas, with her poetic songwriting for someone so young, singing, guitar-playing, harmonica-playing, belly-dancing, and charismatic, youthful, and friendly attitude, she has also brought about a sensational worldly diversity and the respect for all cultures, as she comes from the Latin world yet inherits a Lebanese ancestry from her dad so she knows much of the Middle Eastern Culture, English-speaking cultures, and history. She is truly an epitome for the youth of today, and why I adore her so much! But I love many other artists also, for I love all rock and roll, jazz, and world music. I love much classic rock, like Led Zeppelin, The Doors, The Beatles, John Melencamp, The Who, Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen. I also love classic country and many of the blues. In addition, Counting Crows have long been an inspiration to me, as well as matchbox twenty, Dave Matthews Band, David Gray, John Mayer, Santana, and U2. I also listen to much world music, including Machu Picchu flute music, salsa, merengue, Celtic music, mariachi, and Asian. Billy Joel is cool too, yay! Furthermore, I am growing to be a songwriter, for I want to give something to the children of the world. I am learning guitar frequently and post many of my lyrics across the boards here! Yay for music!!! Yay!!! Love, Noah Eaton "Underneath your clothes there's an endless story..." Shakira [This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (12-11-2002 04:15 PM).] |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
"Marilyn Manson is a master at marketing to people who want to feel justified in hating the world." as are bands like papa roach, as Bart Simpson said about angst music aimed at teenagers "its like shooting fish in a barrel" Yes Mechanical was a rip off of Bowie's Aladdin Slane, the red hair, the acoustic guitars.... still while not original its still a good album ok Manson's voice did not work on ballads. poetic justice, i know that there is no way i can convince people of the merit of rap music, i am not even a fan of most of it, with the exception of Public Enemy and The Roots. "The reason rap artists make rap is because they have no other musical knowledge, and rap is easy to make" You need a understanding of harmony, rhyme and rhythm. Ok you don’t need to know how to play a musical instrument, but dance artists often compose music on computer, from a library of samples. Does that mean that what they produce is not music? “You can talk fast about the "street life” Public Enemy addressed issues such as radical identity, Hollywood’s depiction of colour among other things. “Like I said before about the paint splattering against the wall, that is not art. I could crunch this McDonalds cup up right now and put a bottle cap on top and people would call it art. It's not” So Jackson Pollock is not art, Andy Warhol is not art??? Actually you wouldn’t have to crush the McDonalds cup. The logo is art, as is the design. “while totally disregarding the fact that cruel little monsters were putting the shooters through hell every school day.” What cruel little monsters? It takes more than the fact that a child was bullied to justify murder, it goes deeper, a break down in morals, psychological imbalance. Having written about the effects of television violence on children as my thesis it is evident that it takes a large number of factors for to turn a balanced child into a murder. “I personally don't blame the shooters for killing their tormentors” I would, murder is hardly the answer. No matter what the person did, and yes they did kill innocent children, but what separates the innocent children from the tormentors. In their minds apparently nothing. “If a shirt makes you kill yourself then maybe the world is a better place without you. I know that sounds harsh, but this is what this incredibly jaded 17 year old thinks.” As Hush said “Suicidal music/marketing just might be that trigger.” My point again, Cobain is still to this day an icon for teens. There were copycat suicides, obviously those kids had troubles. But hearing someone famous someone you admire saying “I hate myself and I want to die” then they commit suicide. What may before have been unthinkable suddenly becomes a possible solution. “You also need to realize that back then people didn't know drugs mess you up like they do now. And most of those drugs(with the exception of pot and heroin) were legal at that time”. What drugs? LSD maybe, but then at the time its effects were unknown. If people did not know of the negative effects of drugs then why didn’t more people do them, people had to have known. OK there was the same ignorance about xtc when the rave culture came to the fore but even when people started dying it did not stop people from trying it. “'There aren't any controversial icons that piss uber-conservatives off anymore, except him. We need someone to keep authority in check.” Marilyn Manson is hardly the great revolutionary figure of rock that say Dylan was, or even the Pistols were. The Pistols were one of the first British bands to attack the Monarchy and swear on television, it was a big deal back then. I don’t see how Marilyn Manson keeps authority in check. If it’s the fact that he encourages teenagers to be antiauthoritarian, then that is hardly a great effort… teenagers by nature rebel against authority. I used to make phantoms I could later chase images of all that could be desired then I got tired of counting all of these blessings"h.devoto magazine |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Let me just say, despite all our disagreements, I find it really cool that everyone here is so passionate about music. I find it akin to poetry in all the best ways. Though the practice can be killer (even after 11 years of it ).Mikey |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
11 years??? Dang Mike, that's pathetic... it only took me, what? two years? to learn how to play a CD! |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
I still believe that if a kid commits suicide or kills someone (supposedly) because of a video game or musician, then the problem isn't with the game/music - the problem is with the kid. There are definately influences, but I think that by blaming music/television/games/etc. we're just picking the usual suspects because they're easy to digest. A person who does drugs has a drug problem, but most drug addicts that I know have problems that go deeper than drugs. In fact, part of the reason they started drugs was because of their problems. So does it just all go away when we solve the drug problem? No. Because the Real problem is still there. Music can definately influence a decision, I'm not denying that, but I think that a problem would have to have already been there. Music doesn't create issues. People do. Rock on. Life is where you look for it. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Mike and Jaime- I agree wholeheartedly with you both. Chris- 'it only took me, what? two years? to learn how to play a CD!' This reminds me of my grandfather- he bought a brand new SUV a couple years ago (he died a year ago) and it came equipped with a CD player. Now, according to my mom, he loved the Carpenters, so she bought him so of their cd's. The cute old guy couldn't figure out how to get the "records" out of their case, or how to work the "record-player." Thanks for the smile. |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
quote: That's not what I mean. I mean that we need someone famous to consistently make people like Jessie Helms get mad and say what they really feel, so people know the real politician from the awesome person they advertise themselves as. quote: It isn't just "making fun of someone". Did you know that kids are the cruelest creatures on earth? I have been there. I was always the kid that got picked on. Rarely physically, and always emotionally. And I happen to be a really sensitive person, which has gotten me into bad situations more than one time... But anyways, I had fantasies where I killed the people who tormented me and then I'd run off and never be caught or anything... And I think I might have tried it too, if I wasn't as timid as I was. Or like I am now. You see, it isn't just kids "making fun" of kids. In today's society we tend to focus on emotions more, and sensitive, introverted kids are always the ones who get picked on. In our eyes, people who constantly berate and ostracize us are cold, cruel, calculating beasts put on this planet for one reason: to make our lives a living hell. And it works, too. Who knows what they'll do next? Maybe they'll slam my head into my locker, knowing I won't retaliate even though I'm bigger than them. Maybe they'll start the "you have no friends" schpeel. Maybe they'll say something that cuts like a razor and festers like an infection. Maybe they'll just spread a good old fashioned rumor around the school about you. At this point, neither person is a person anymore. The victim is a time bomb waiting to go off, anger bottled up inside and waiting to get out. The other person is no better than a Nazi. And this isn't in elementary school anymore, either. So these kids know they're hurting us badly. You tell me to grow up, maybe you need to take a look back at your school years and ask yourself what is was like for you. Going by what you said, I'm assuming you weren't one of the kids picked on all the time. You don't know how it feels. quote: No, nothing is going to "trigger" someone into suicide. A person will just be incredibly depressed one day and go for it... Again, I've been there. I never actually attempted it, but I used to think about it a lot. But then I thought how my family would react, what my dad would think when he comes home from work one day and finds my dead body wherever it is, realizing that he'd probably die from a heart attack if that happened. And then of course there's other stuff. I'd never experience my favorite food again, I'd never get to listen to all the music I want to listen to, I'd never get together with Kristi, or even talk to her again. Plus, if there is nothingness when you die, which is what I'm afraid of most, then it'd really suck. And saying the world is better without someone is not cruel. I guess it depends how much value you place on a human life, and right now it's very little for people here. You're all caught up with small amounts of deaths, 12 from the sniper and couple hundred from school shootings. And the world trade center attacks killed around 3,000. Guess what? That many people die every day in Africa. What do we do to help? Nothing. Do we send troops over to bomb the hell out of the warlords taking all the food? No. Do we send humanitarian aid to them? Not very much. More went to the 9/11 families than to Africa. And do we go in there and intervene? No. And do you know why we don't do any of this? Because there's no oil in Africa. We are selfish, pompous assholes. Every one of us. We don't care about anything but ourselves and our own country. You can call me childish if you like, but I don't see how you can justify taking all that time saving one person from a self induced death when you could be saving dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of lives that are in danger from circumstanced beyond their control elsewhere. quote: Err, no. I was thinking more along the lines of a bully getting what was coming to him. They get labelled as the victims in the media, and they put the stick in the hand of the killer, the stick being the anger and hatred they have. quote: Well... To tell the truth I'm starting to see more eye to eye with you guys about rap. I have been generalizing it, but that's because all you see on TV or read about is Snoop Dogg, P. Diddy, and other crappers like them who go on and on about the gangster life... But there's a rap in one of Sting's songs. It's in french, but it worked very well with the song. And once I translated it it had good lyrics. So, I guess rap artists are artists after all. Doesn't mean I think they're talented, though... quote: Yes but you still need to know how to read and write music, and you need to have an understanding of how pitch, tempo, time, and dynamics work. quote: Nah. Like I said, I would have done it if I wasn't so timid. And I guess if I had less self control than I do now... Many teens don't think about consequences, but that's all I think of... quote: Well, I think it was just because they knew they didn't have enough time to search out every person they hated, so they just shot randomly and hoped to get lucky. quote: Let me clarify: The drugs hadn't been around long enough for them to realize they'd turn out like Ozzy in the future. They knew that an O.D. could kill them, but they didn't know that the drugs totally fried them later in life. quote: Never said he was. All I said was that he's a necessary evil. I personally think his music is crap... quote: He makes conservatives mad, and the conservatives try to get him in trouble for it and they fail miserably, so then new standards and morals are created. Before the Rolling Stones have sexual innuendoes in music was big no no. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
There is a thin line to be drawn there between selfish and realistic. I'm not about to head over to Africa and spend my life to help someone. Why? Because it is my life. I am the only one with the right to decide what is right for me. You mislabel me "selfish" because I am not "helping" people in Africa who are dying. What gives you that right? Were you here when my friend got in a really bad car accident to help her? What about when my brother got jumped by a bunch of gang members? What about my sister who doesn't have enough money because she's working and going to school all the time? What about my nephew who's crying right now because he has a really bad diaper rash? I haven't seen you here helping us out - so does that make you selfish, or too pre-occupied with the people in Africa who are no more people than we here are, but happen to be a cause? No, while I support anyone's right and commend them on their efforts to help others, I cannot accept that it is selfish to keep your hands on the homefront in order to make a better life for yourself and the people you care for. To do otherwise trancends selfishness and jumps right on over into ignorance. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
and another thing: quote:Please tell me at what number a human life become less valuable than another, or many? Should we leave to save two instead of one? Three instead of two? How about one hunderd fifty instead of sixty? What value have you decided a human life is worth? Did you determine their worth to society and factor that in? How about the emotional factors? DId you count the relatives that would miss each person when they died? No offense meant here, honestly, but you're mathematics aren't clear to me right now. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Poetic Justice- You have a lot of nerve. How can you make assumptions about my life, and consider my opinion less valid because 'I haven't been there?" That is a big load of bull, and becasue I'm feeling particularly candid today, let me tell you why. You think I don't know that kids can be cruel? Let me tell you something- people used to beat me up on a regular basis. Nobody, I mean nobody would talk to me. I don't feel like going into specific causes of that ostracization right now, but believe me, I know about rumors, I know about being ripped apart emotionally, I know about seemingly everyone on earth hating me and considering me their own personal jokes. I just don't trot around whining about it, because that gets me nowhere. Normally I wouldn't even use it here, but like I said, I'm feeling pretty candid today. The thing is, I don't think most of those kids truly understood what they were putting me through. I think they did something typically human, and forgot that I was human as well. They made me into an enemy, and then they dehumanized me. Well, for a while, I did the same- I hated back. But I think maturity makes you realize that we're all human, we all bleed the same color- even our enemies, even those who are crulest to us. Bullies have troubles, concerns, and happiness too. The instant you turn your enemy into someone less human, less deserving of life than you, you become what you are crying out against. Nazi's were people too. 'No, nothing is going to "trigger" someone into suicide.' Yes, something does. You say you never actually attempted it- well I can play your card right back to you then. You haven't been there. I have, and believe me, you don't just up and decide "well, I think today I'll kill myself..." I'm not going to share my trigger- I'm not feeling quite that candid- but I will tell you there was one, and it was pulled numerous times that day until I had a bottle of Excedrin floating around in my stomach and the chamber was empty, and let me tell you something- it takes a lot. A lot, even when you've been contemplating it for months. Even when the way you comfort yourself through the day is "I'll go home and kill myself tonight." Youth has a funny way of making us think we have a monopoly on misery, but you know what? You share your lot with quite a few people, so maybe you should think about it next time before you say "You haven't been there." Because I have. And I'm sure a lot of other people reading this have. [This message has been edited by hush (12-12-2002 10:25 AM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Sorry, one thing I have to add: 'And saying the world is better without someone is not cruel.' Let somebody tell you that, and then tell me whether or not it is cruel. And *sigh* I guess it's kind of sad that a thread about music has wound down to this... I thought about not posting what I did, but then I thought what the hell... better speak my mind now while I'm up to it. But really, if you think about it, Poetic Justice, you denounce rap for glorifying violence.... but isn't your justification of why bullies should be killed the same thing? |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Chris -- I meant 11 years to get that awful white sticker off the top of the CD! (and another three to remove that adhesive chip from the back of the tray!)  |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Having read your replies PoeticJustice, I can only offer two "pills" of advice. Swallow. Pill 1: Move on. Pill 2: Get over it. Bitter ain't becoming on anyone. Mike |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
And, finally, I can see why this thread is called "Music?" This thread seems to be about anything but, now. Incidentally, I like cheese sandwiches. (as long as we're OT...) |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
I wasn't going to get involved but.. "You can call me childish if you like, but I don't see how you can justify taking all that time saving one person from a self induced death when you could be saving dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of lives that are in danger from circumstanced beyond their control elsewhere." As a person who as "been there" you should understand suicidal people a lot better. When you're truly suicidal you ARE in danger from circumstances beyond your control. True, you decide whether or not you take the plunge, but there are things that factor into it that are not of the person's control. It's not excuses. It's just the truth. Anywho, to talk about something kind of having to do with music... ...does anyone else think that having 'a song' between you and your significant other cheapens the value of the relationship because you're essentially using recylced love songs? Props to those who bother to find a song other than "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" and "Amazed". Life is where you look for it. [This message has been edited by Jaime (12-12-2002 06:01 PM).] |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
And isn't it sad that if you have a favorite song while you're in a relationship when you break up, you can't bear to listen to that song again? The song didn't cause the break up (I hope). So the trigger of emotion and memories when you hear that particular song actually controls you. Now THAT is powerful. |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
"Let me just say, despite all our disagreements, I find it really cool that everyone here is so passionate about music." I agree Mikey. ~Titus "A life unexamined is not worth living." |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
quote: Exactly. And our society today says that's not selfish. But it is. We are all very selfish. Incredibly selfish. Me, you, your neighbor, the president. But we don't realize it because we all are. If there was a society in the world that was completely selfless then we might realize just how selfish we are, or bomb the hell out of them. I'm just saying that we have it incredibly good here, and to fret over one person dying when there are thousands dying elsewhere eveyr day, in more horrible and painful ways I might add, is almost ignorant. I don't place a whole lot of value on a human life, maybe because I believe in reincarnation, maybe because I see that all people are evil in at least some way(John Locke theorized that people are innately evil, and that through education we can overcome most, if not all, of the evilness, I agree with him except that I don't think it can ever be completely eradicated), or maybe I just don't place a lot of value on white people's lives. Now, I'm white too, so I'm not racist, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that white people are the most evil people on Earth--in the past and present. quote: Did you ever inform me of any of that? Was I even aware of the realities of this world when these things happened? Besides, these are all very petty concerns(except for the car accident one and the gang member one, if it was that bad). The gang member thing just helps prove how evil we are, babies are human in the purest form, and they are completely selfish and uncaring about what's going on around them until they reach about a year old I think it is. quote: See, another thing. Homefront? Do we not all live on the same planet? Are we not all human? It's because of the borders that seperate us that this planet is in the almost perpetual state of war it is in. There is always a war going on. Why? Because instead of accepting, or at least tolerating other peoples' ideas and beliefs, we choose to change or kill them. Take Communism for example. Woodrow Wilson started the "red fever" by declaring them as evil, and democracy as good. What you don't know is that Wilson started several covert operations to keep the latin american countries from leaving 3rd world status and "threatening democracy". Communism is not bad, Stalin was. In an ideal world, communism is the government of choice, because everyone is equal. But people are selfish and aren't content to be equal, they always want to have more than the other guy. So corrupt leaders come into power and mess everything up. quote: By your reasoning some lives become worth less than others. And yes, I believe the more lives you can save, the better. I don't know why I feel this way, as I've made it pretty clear that I despise the human race and everything it is, but maybe deep down inside I have hope that in the future we will transcend all this and live in harmony. quote: No offense taken. I love arguing. This is one of the longest debates I've ever been in that hasn't started flaming. quote: I did say I was making a judgement solely on your post. quote: I don't go about and whine about my experiences, either. I said them here to drive my point home. I've left my past behind me, as I'm now surrounded by more mature, intelligent people. You know why I was ostracized by the other kids? Because I was bigger than them. Not fat, just bigger. So kids assumed I was a bully, because bullies are always big mean guys right? And then they subconsciously weigh my personality(we all do it), and they determine that they can do what they want to me because I won't chase after them and beat them up or or tell the teacher. No, I'll sit there and take it until I start to cry. And then of course when I am sitting there crying on the playground the actual bullies, not just the little imps that surround me, but the king demons, come up to me and do what they want to me. Spit on me, kick me, hit me, it's all good fun for them. To say they don't realize what they're doing is utter lunacy. They take joy from your pain, they prey on the weak of heart and the stout of stature. They are the criminals of the future. They are the reason the world is as bad a place as it is now. I never felt like I was the butt of every joke, though. I can tell what a person is thinking when I see them. I pick up on other peoples' vibes very easily. quote: You can't fight sticks and stones with knowledge or maturity. Sometimes you have to lower yourself to someone else's level to fight back; beat them at their own game and they turn away in shame. Hey, I like the way that sounds. quote: I see where your argument is coming from now. When something hits us personally we tend to let our emotions cloud our thoughts. That's why I try to be as objective as possible. And maybe I am wrong about the trigger thing, it is true that I never actually attempted it. Unless you consider grabbing the knife and holding it there for a while as attempted(holding as in just holding, not getting ready to stab yourself). quote: I don't think I'm more miserable than most. I realize that I don't have a monopoly on misery. Back when I was a younger teen I did, the whole teen angst thing. But I've grown out of that. I've become a utilitarian and I'm miserable because of this, I'm miserable because I understand how things work; people, society, everything. Ignorance really is bliss. I seek knowledge to fee my curiosity, and then my good friend depression grabs it from curiosity before he can digest it. quote: Well, of course I'd be mad. Granted I was hurting the balance of things somehow and I didn't realize it, emotions would cloud my objectivity and I would become very defensive. Tell me, do you believe that the ends justify the means? If someone could kill Hitler before he did anything bad, do you think that they should do that? quote: I'm like every other person hush. When I don't like something I find every available fault and exploit it as best I can. People tell me I'd be a good lawyer, but lawyers are incredibly evil and I'd never want to be one. And I believe I said in my last post that I've changed my attiture towards rap. Some rap at least. quote: I like the term jaded better. It more fits me. I'm not old enough to be bitter yet. quote: Mind over matter. Nothing is beyond your control when it comes your body. They are excuses, totally excuses. "I was depressed", Cry me a river. Then build a bridge and get over it. Either deal with your depression and thrive in it(like I do) or get rid of it. You control your own fate, not a chemical inbalance in the brain(I still don't think depression is caused by this, though). |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Poetic Justice - Before I address some of your comments, I have a few words on interaction here at Passions. We are a community, a family, in many ways. As such, we operate on a few basic principles to not only allow an enjoyable place for people to visit, but a safe one as well. These tenets all revolve around the ideas of Respect and Tolerance. This disallows attacks on other members. While we are 100% tolerant of other's beliefs, we insist that they be presented in a respectful manner. Some of your comments are less than respectful and I'll ask that please ensure that they are in the future. If you have an issue with something a person says, address your comments to the statement, not the person. This will help us keep Passions as comfortable for everyone as possible and help avoid things like the flaming you're speaking of. Ok - first, I have a feeling that it's going to be nigh unto impossible to help you see through these seemingly nihilistic goggles you're looking through. That won't prevent me from trying to knock down what I feel are some pretty narrow-sighted statements, however. quote:Whoa! Full stop, back up, put on the brakes! Where, I have to ask, are you getting this? If an entire society says that it's not selfish, then, by definition, isn't it no longer selfish? It would seem to me that if a mass majority agrees that a rose is a rose, then, well, it's a rose. Secondly, you speak further down about education going toward a reduction of evil, yet say that we don't realize it? That seems contradictory - unless you're going to suggest that you're the only intelligent, educated person in the world? quote:Incredibly good? So let me see - this is from your perspective, right? - you must come from a wealthy family who cared for you and was kind and loving at all times, with no drama, no skeletons… you must have had a beautiful childhood… oh wait, you've mentioned your misery. Well, that's selfish, of course, because instead of worrying about the things in your life, you should have been over in Africa, dedicating yourself to the good of a people who haven't asked for your help - help, I might add, that you obviously weren't in a position, mentally, emotionally, or likely fiscally, to hand out. Again, your scales aren't coming into balance here. To sacrifice yourself for something you value is noble indeed. To do it in such a mindless fashion is close to slavery. Sacrifice only means something if it truly comes from the heart - and without "selfishness" in your own life, giving to another means less than a slave cutting through cotton for his master. quote:I'm still waiting for your calculations showing which human lives are more valuable than others. quote:I cut out your reasoning because it becomes moot at this point. If human life has no value, then what does it matter if thirty people die here while hundreds die elsewhere? The concept of selfishness no longer matters once you claim that there is no value in that which you are suggesting should be saved. But if you maintain your tenet of selfishness, then life has meaning, has value, and I have to ask once more what you determine that value to be. quote:Firstly, simply because you are a member of a race does not discount you from racism. To declaim an entire race as "something" bypasses individuality and jumps right on into the very racism you're declaiming. A person is a person, white, purple, black or green - it doesn't matter. What you're suggesting isn't something you can attribute to a color (because that would imply that white people are cruel because of their color, which would be an ignorant statement), rather, you can attribute it to a balance of power. If you want examples of cruelty, you can look up some history on the Moors, perhaps some of the ancient Egyptian lines, study the Chinese Dynasties, or perhaps peek at some Arabian atrocities. Throughout history we have people being "evil." Their color is a trait, not a causative agent. I've debated covering inherent evil with you, but think I'd rather leave that to another time, if at all. I used to believe that guilt was inherent, that the only true innocence was ignorance. I don't feel that way anymore, because I believe that true evil comes as a result of ignorance, not from an abundance. quote:Nope, I didn't inform you. I have now though - when will you be here to help my sister out? Or my friend? She's still walking around on crutches, broke, because she's been out of work for several weeks now. No, I doubt you will be. But let me ask you this: when was the last time an African came up to you and told you of his/her situation and asked you for help? I've never had one ask me for anything. I've had Sally Struthers waddling around the TV screen telling me they need help, but they never made me aware of it,. quote:Yes, you were aware of the realities of this world when these things happened. Countless numbers of people die here in the US alone every year. You can tally the results from a thousand different surveys as to the cause of death, but in the end, they are dead. This isn't something that's hidden, that we know nothing about. How many times have you heard of someone being seriously injured in a car accident? Starving after losing their job? Injured in a war for our freedom? All the time, all the time, all too often. quote:Really? Ask my sister how petty working a full-time job and going to school full-time is. Warn you though, better duck, she might not be too happy about it. And of course it's petty that my 10-month-old nephew is in pain and doesn't understand what's happening to him. That's really petty. We should immediately stop manufacturing products that will help ease his pain and start sending all those resources over to Africa, because, after all, it's a petty thing. I understand what you're trying to do here, Poetic Justice - it's the "good of the few vs. the good of the many" scenario. There are places where this is an applicable and right philosophy to pursue, I believe, and if you're just looking at the base numbers, I can even understand how you can say that we should save sixty people in Africa (I recognize "Africa" is merely representative of all "places" that 'need' help) over ten in America. But you're neglecting to look at the larger picture - the picture that shows the outcome if we expend all our resources to feed overpopulated countries without forwarding our own lives. It's an outcome that ends in inevitable slavery to a cause that started out with the best intentions. Once we start feeding them all our excess, what happens when we have dry times? What happens when they become adjusted to our help - so much so that they grow to depend on us like children, unable to fend for themselves because we've debilitated their drive for survival with consistent handouts? We end up in the same place, only now, we need help. You can call it selfless, but I call it ignorant. quote:I take it you've never been around babies? There is nothing on the face of this planet more selfish than a baby. It exists solely to take - food, attention, care, etc. A baby is incapable of giving. We perceive it as giving because of the joy we receive when they smile or when we recognize our contribution to a growing person. quote:If all people are evil, and life has no value, what does it matter? Besides, I see virtually no tolerance in anything I've read from you so far. You say we're all human, all the "same", yet you say white man is the most evil race. You say we all live on the same planet, yet you want me to travel across the world to help someone else, when they have never come here to help me? *shaking head* I don't buy it. quote:Show me proof. It's preposterous to think you can lay a national fear at one man's feet. I'm not justifying or denying the perceived threat, but I will deny that it could have come from one person. quote:This is the first statement you've made that I wholly agree with. What I disagree with is your implication that Communism would be the ultimate way to go. Communism defeats the entire purpose of being human. It denies individuality of belief and preference and renders life as a sterile gear in a huge, churning, pointless machine. Our system, such as it is, is imperfect. But until a better one comes about that allows me to be different, to discuss issues on the internet with people from all over the world without fear of isolation or repercussion, I'm sticking with what we have. quote:Nope, that's exactly what I was hearing from you. How can one person's life be worth any less than another's? What if you save the wrong person? What if you save the guy who goes nuts with the A-Bomb, along with all his compatriots instead of the single man who would develop a cure for cancer? Would you say the scales changed then? I don't know. I'm not trying to put a value on a human's life because I know full well that I'm now able to do so. Are you? quote:Peace is a farce and the bread of a stagnant society. Without the input of strife (whether in the form of personal or national) we would have no reason to advance. The idea of Eden may sound good to some people, but not to this boy. I want challenges, I want differences, I want people to argue with, because I want to keep advancing. Man wasn't built for Eden, whether Biblical or metaphorical. It's not and never will be in his nature - and I like it that way. quote:This statement is ridiculous. You've just finished telling me that you aim for a society filled with harmony. You're whole basis for people being selfish is based on the "fact" that we won't help others far away… and then you suggest that in order to teach someone a lesson we should degrade to animalistic urges and become violent? Wow - threw me for a loop with that one. Ok - I think I'll finish there and let hush have her own with ya. Peace - |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
wow - that was my 7,000th post... wonder how i ever managed to post that many with as much as i ramble on. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
I will never forget a couple of events that took place regarding suicide and subliminal messages in music. Ozzy Osbourne was blamed for putting suicidal subliminal messages in his music and the christian crusade, which was ironically headed by Tipper Gore (cough, cough), "waved" Osbourne's song, Suicide Solution, as proof. The problem was that these people never bothered to understand the lyrics to that song. If they did, and if they knew some facts about Ozzy's personal life, and if they could think critically (not many people can), they would of realized that they were ignorant idiots because the song is actually an anti-alcohol song. Then there was Judas Priest, blamed for the death of a teenager because he supposedly was brainwashed into suicide after listening to a Judas Priest song. The court through that out. I will never forget when Ozzy was asked if he purposely hid messages of suicide in his music. His answer was basically this: that if he could place any subliminal message in his music, it would be this... Buy my records! Buy my records! [This message has been edited by Nan (01-11-2003 07:52 AM).] |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
It's hard enough trying to understand Ozzy *frontwards*!!! |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
LOL, Mike. Poetic Justice- You remind me of my ex-boyfriend. (He wants to be a lawyer, BTW). I could systemtaically argue with every single assertion that you made in your last post, and quite successfully. However, I have neither the time, nor the inclination to takcle your assertions about evil, about (LOL) white people ebing more evil than others, about inherent evil... My rebuttal to your assertion about communism comes in the form of a novel called Atlas Shrugged by AynRand. I don't think her ideas about Capitalism are flawless, but she effectively debases the argument for Communism. I can almost guarentee you that if you read this book, you will never think the same way about selfishness, greed, or economics again. Oh, and? 'You can't fight sticks and stones with knowledge or maturity. Sometimes you have to lower yourself to someone else's level to fight back; beat them at their own game and they turn away in shame. Hey, I like the way that sounds.' I'm guess you'll vote for G.W. next election? You like America's "Carry a big stcik" philosophy? We're too stupid to think of other alternatives than threatening to nuke Iraq- completely debasing Bush's argument that he wants to 'liberate' Iraqis? Nah, just vaporize the lucky ones, and let the rest of them rot away from radiation sickness. That's the ticket! I don't really have the energy, nor do I see the usefulness, in continuing this conversation. It's only going to lead to me getting frustrated, and eventual mudslinging (if it isn't that already?) I hope you can someday adopt a more sensible, and more forgiving worldview. Thanks for the converastion. |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space |
TOOL, Radiohead, Queen Adreena, Nine Inch Nails, Smashing Pumpkins, Beatles, John Lennon, U2, Doors, Blind Melon are just some of my favourites but then I have 200 or so cds and love a wide range of music. For Lyrical content and inspiration check any of the bands above! |
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Jaime
Registered
MemberPosts 250 |
quote: I definately agree that you have a choice, but when you HAVE depression (and are not simply depressed) your mentality is not stable enough to necessarily make a "good" decision. There are plenty of hormones that effect the psychological health of those who have an imbalance. An imbalance of melatonin can result in SAD. That's just an example. I am very strongly against the "victim mentality" and will be the first to say something if someone is taking on that perspective... but not all those who are "depressed" or even depressed are whiny, little brats blaming everyone but themselves. Some people actually fight... and they don't need excuses or justification. Life is where you look for it. |
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PoeticJustice Junior Member
since 2002-11-29
Posts 44AK, USA |
quote: So by that reasoning, Copernicus was wrong about the world revolving around the sun, and not vicer versa, because the church said he was? quote: Err, I don't think I've said this anywhere.. quote: That's not what I'm talking about and you know it. I'm saying we here fret over every little thing in our lives. We make such a big deal out of every little thing. But do we make a big deal about all the pain and suffering in the world? No. I'm not saying sacrifice yourself, I'm saying help out at least a little. If all of this countries 300-350 million people contributed just a little, even if you omit the lower class, that's still quite a bit of help going over to them. quote: Huh? quote: Alright. My personality type is thinking and feeling. I'm very torn when it comes to this. Logically, we're a pox upon this earth and have done more damage to it than anything else ever has. So we have little or no value, and it would be better for everything else on this earth if we didn't exist. But on the other hand, we are progressing and maybe someday we'll atone for our sins and fix things as best as we can. And maybe we really were ignorant all those years. quote: It actually does. I can call my friends "crackers" or "honkeys" and they call it to me back and we all laugh about it. But if someone who is not white calls us that we are offended. Unless he/she is a friend too. quote: I should clarify. Historically, the white race has done more evil than any other race. More than all the other races combined, I believe. It is because of whites that certain countries are as messed up as they are now. It is because of whites that many Native American tribes have been completely wiped out, like the Arawaks. quote: I think it's fear. quote: When was the last time you saw someone who lives in Africa travel here? They don't have the means to communicate or come to us. quote: Objectively, it is petty. To the person it's happening to it is not. Like I said, emotions cloud our judgement. I can't say things like this about a person I know in person because I sense the good in them. I can't say that the world would be a better place without my parents or my friends. quote: It's more of a "make people open their eyes" scenario. You can't learn anything radically new to you if your views aren't challenged. quote: I call it fixing what we broke. It's our fault(I mean our as in our countries, not necesarilly ours personally) that they're messed up like that. quote: Isn't that what I said? quote: I don't see any intolerance in what I've said. I see challenges to widely accepted beliefs, but I don't believe I've come out and said "you're wrong", "my opinion is law", or "I can't stand to be here with your wrong opinions, go away". quote: It's widely accepted that Wilson started the red fever... He started the propoganda and denounced Hellen Keller, who was a socialist. I bet a lot of you didn't know that quote: I said it'd be the ultimate way to go if there was no human factor. quote: I totally agree with you, but the strife shouldn't be against people who are trying to get mini nukes to suicide bomb with or people who crash planes into buildings. It should be arguments like these. quote: So you would just assume let them beat on you while you send witty insults at them? quote: That was a totally innaccurate assumption. I hate Bush with a passion. I vote democratically, or libretarian if there are any. The only thing I don't agree with libretatians is gun control. You don't need a handgun or AK-47. Hunting rifles work great for hunting and shooting people who break into your house. You don't need a handgun. Oh, and we threatened to nuke Iraq? I didn't hear about that... quote: And if only the rest of America was like this... |
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garysgirl
since 2002-09-29
Posts 19237Florida, USA |
Goodnes, this is deep stuff..... I'm STILL wondering if anybody likes instrumentals anymore. I even like classical music. My favorite instrumentals are by bands like Henry Mancini, Percy Faith, and Burt Bacharach (is it spelled right?). I've got a few CD's by various artists....Smooth Classics, The Romantic Collections, and When You Say Love are some of them. My favorite artist of all time is Rod Stewart, though..... ~Ethel~ |
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gemjop Member Elite
since 2002-11-18
Posts 2587Pencilveinia, USA |
I'd just like to say. The Beatles Rolling Stones The strokes Coldplay Oasis The kinks Radio head Stereophonics and more of the Beatles! i wanna hold your haaaaaand, i wanna hold your hand! |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
ISIS ~ Oceanic This cd amazes me. maudlin of the Well ~ Bath The "Pink Floyd" of modern progressive music. The female singer is to die for, she should do Opera. The "death growls" are well executed and the clear male vox are very good too. [This message has been edited by Opeth (01-10-2003 09:11 AM).] |
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neveah5 Member
since 2002-11-22
Posts 197Ohio |
wow i have no idea what happened between page 1 and 5..im gonna have to go back and read it all. I personally like Fionna Apple Live Pearl Jam Tori Amos Poe Ministry Deftones Coldplay The Who Dire Straits Led Zeppelin The Doors thats just a few im a music freak |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
The Smiths  |
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Larry C
since 2001-09-10
Posts 10286United States |
Okay I have an announcement to make: Hear ye! Hear ye! You guys make me feel really, really old! OH, and Ethel I like those instrumentals. As to genres I have a large collection of religious music and I listen mostly to jazz. But as for all the artists you guys list here...hmmmm, the percentage I seem to know is very small. Dang I feel old, I'm going to bed. If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane, I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
You know what I would like to say?  PEACE! I am now afraid to tell you people my opinyns, because they almost allways start arguments. But I am not a coward, and I will tell you this: All living things can feel pain. So who is to say that the life of a human whould be valued more than that of a dog, a mouse or even a flea. We have been given power, and what have we done? Abused it, destroyed the earth and hurt each other. Forgive me but, I druely dislike the human race and would rather be a dog, a mouse or a flea. They live their lives with honesty, allthough they lack the intalectual and physical abalities to live lives of comfort and lazyness. What I can say is this: this world would be better off without the human race. As for music, I love ACDC America, Yes, I do like Avril Lavigne ABBA I just like too many kinds of music, so I can't list them, expecialy in Alphebetical order But you know what, it is not the artists that I like. It is the music. Some Artist may write one song, and only one that I love, and I may hate all the others. And I listen, not because people tell me to, but because I tell myself to. Never be normal! [This message has been edited by Wind (01-11-2003 06:47 PM).] |
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neveah5 Member
since 2002-11-22
Posts 197Ohio |
I'd have to agree with you Wind..on basically everything you said...except for liking AC DC  |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Wind, it's funny how you mentioned America, because that paragraph above really made me think of A Horse with No Name... which takes a similar approach to the human race in relation to its environment... "In the desert you can't remember your name, 'cause there ain't no one there to give you no pain." Basically, pain is something man-made, and the world would exist harmoniously without the human approach to life, without names, without "rain." I've always found that song inspirational. Other than that and Muskrat Love, I don't listen to a lot of America. |
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Wind
since 2002-10-12
Posts 2981 |
A hourse with no name is aslo about love. And I only like ACDC because it makes me laugh. It is so stupid, and I don't know, for that reason I like it. I am living proof that ghosts exist. Which is an oximoron but I don't care ;) |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
I am bored so instead of finding something productive to do with my time i thought i'd reply to this. Music? in no real order here goes......... Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds manic street preachers Joy Division Magazine Tom Waits Patti Smith Group (some solo stuff as well) PJ Harvey Television Smashing Pumpkins Leonard Cohen Whipping Boy (Irish band, sadly no more) The Birthday Party System of a Down (toxicity) The Clash Crime and the city solution Public Enemy Tori Amos R.E.M Radiohead Marilyn Manson The Pixies The Doors Greenday and Placebo (in my youth) Theraphy? Metallica (a few songs) Air Morcheeba (only big calm) Barry Adamson some latin Jazz some T-REX and Bowie some Sonic Youth James Hall Bob Dylan (the classics) Iggy Pop (the classics) watched from the wings as the scenes were replayed we saw ourselves now as we never have seen" ian curtis |
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neveah5 Member
since 2002-11-22
Posts 197Ohio |
Days of the New how could i forget them?!? |
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Jenn Cirrincione
since 2000-07-02
Posts 2107Fl |
I'm pretty sure Days of the New is called something else now...hmmm I'm not sure. On the first page Nirvana was called punk and I must disagree. They started the whole grunge period, and it's like calling Pearl Jam punk, Green Day was punk for a while- as would be Good Charlotte or Sum 41, Mr. T Experience etc... Nirvana, not so much. Sorry just had to address that. I listen to: Dixie Chicks Tori Amos Fiona Apple Jewel Avril Tim McGraw So many more... "I keep looking, looking for something more." Sara Evans |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
"...because that paragraph above really made me think of A Horse with No Name... which takes a similar approach to the human race in relation to its environment... "In the desert you can't remember your name, 'cause there ain't no one there to give you no pain." Basically, pain is something man-made, and the world would exist harmoniously without the human approach to life, without names, without "rain."" ~ I remember when that song came out, I think I was in 3rd grade. I do believe the meaning of that song is this: Horse is{was} a slang term for heroin, and he is talking about taking heroin and its effects...but I could be wrong. [This message has been edited by Opeth (02-03-2003 12:39 PM).] |
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WindSong Member
since 2002-12-23
Posts 313Long Island, New York |
Music...Smusic...I listen to anything and pretty much everything. I mean, it really depends on what time of mood I'm in or stuff. I don't care what is on most of the time. Music is music. Sometimes it's Swan Lake music or sometimes it's David Bowie music...Doesn't matter to me, as long as it has a good beat and a rthym, I'm game...Does that answer your question? ~*~Kirah~*~ I lie all the time - infact Im lieing right now! |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
Uhh... go Pete Yorn. Rah rah... Seriously. And Wayne Static. And Bob Dylan. And Sonny from P.O.D. And John Mayer. And... hhhhmmmmmm.... music good. Yah, good. ~Titus Es ist gut, daß das Leben die Toten studieren sollte. |
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Legallee Insane New Member
since 2003-02-04
Posts 4 |
In no real specific order my favourite music includes: ==System of a Down ==Hatebreed ==Disturbed ==Ill Nino ==Slipknot ==Kiss ==Soulfly ==Korn ==Rage Against the Machine ==Tool ==Static-X ==Staind ==Mudvayne ==Rob Zombie ==Adema ==Sevendust ==Orgy ==Slayer ==Meshuggah ==Pantera ==Rammstein ==Morbid Angel ==Megaherz ==Skrape ==Coal Chamber ==Ozzy Osbourne ==Depeche Mode ==Black Sabbath ==Dream Theater ==Into Eternity "Only the fool says in his heart: 'There is no god' -- the wise says it to the world." |
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chasing rain Senior Member
since 2001-05-15
Posts 737Canada |
In general: Jars of Clay Lifehouse Bleach Starfield Seether Zwan The Calling Luna Halo Soloists: Remy Shand (local musician gone GRAMMY NOMINEE!!!) Chantel Kreviazuk (another local musician gone BIG) Norah Jones Musiq Soulchild Classical: Rachmaninoff Schubert Beethoven (like playing his stuff better though) Chopin (Ballade No.4 for obvious reasons.) That's about it for today...I keep thinking I've missed something. o_O; Probably. |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
Zwan!!!!!!!!!!! Luna Halo!!!!!!!!!  Dude. ~Titus Es ist gut, daß das Leben die Toten studieren sollte. |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Novembers Doom ~ Of Sculptured Ivy & Stone Flowers Swedish doom metal with a female touch. |
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chasing rain Senior Member
since 2001-05-15
Posts 737Canada |
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Legallee Insane New Member
since 2003-02-04
Posts 4 |
PoetryIsLife: "Es ist gut, daß das Leben die Toten studieren sollte." How so? |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
The lead singer of Luna Halo used to be in a band that never made it, Reality Check, whom I saw play, and loved, and own their CD and love it..... they were awesome. The lead singer and another member started Luna Halo; that other member is the son of the pastor of a former church of mine, back in SoCal.~Titus Es ist gut, daß das Leben die Toten studieren sollte. |
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chasing rain Senior Member
since 2001-05-15
Posts 737Canada |
TITUS!!! DUDE!!! NO WAY!!! Lucky. Lend me the CD? Leah [This message has been edited by chasing rain (02-07-2003 05:28 PM).] |
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Marshalzu
since 2001-02-15
Posts 2681Lurking |
I've kind of picked up a few new bands, The Polyphonic Spree, The Flaming Lips, The Vines (they really rocked at Leeds 02). Zwan are cool but I've only managed to here one song (I think it's called "Honesty" please correct me if i'm wrong). |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Tool ~ Lateralus ~ An amazingly complex in its simplicity or simple in its complexity, powerful and brilliantly written cd. |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
Go Tool, Go Tool. "On the plains of Hesitation lie the blackend bones of countless millions, who, at the verge of victory, sat down to wait, and waiting - died." |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
50 Cent [This message has been edited by PoetryIsLife (02-19-2003 03:00 PM).] |
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abbe Member
since 2003-01-20
Posts 131michigan, usa |
music is good... all kinds. but some of todays "pop" singers don't do it for me...(i.e. britney, christina... that genre) but i have a broad taste in music, but really enjoy my old favs the most... louis armstrong ella fitzgerald billie holiday bb king and too many to list... but some days you just need some fun in your life... so there are the barenaked ladies and the pink stripes and there's music that makes me say - whoa... like - jeff buckley (hallelujah... the best song ever recorded) and leonard cohen chris cornel and, and, and too many |
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Dopey Dope
Moderator
Member Patricius
since 2000-08-30
Posts 11132San Juan, Puerto Rico |
311- flowing get it or perish... and queens of the stone age- no one knows get it...or...perish? yeah! |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Dark Tranquillity ~ Damage Done Metal with melody |
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PoetryIsLife
since 2001-10-27
Posts 1763...in my boxers... |
QOTSA  ~Titus  "On the plains of Hesitation lie the blackend bones of countless millions, who, at the verge of victory, sat down to wait, and waiting - died." |
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chasing rain Senior Member
since 2001-05-15
Posts 737Canada |
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That Playa TL Junior Member
since 2003-02-21
Posts 19Tampa, FL |
I like everything rap - 2pac, nas, ms dynamite, snoop dogg r&b - mary j. blige, alicia keys, mariah carey rock - candlebox, meallica, pearl jam, creed country - alabama, randy travis, hank williams jr., travis tritt pop - alecia "pink" moore, linda perry (mainly as a writer/producer), christina a.'s newer stuff that was produced by linda perry and scott storch ... |
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Dopey Dope
Moderator
Member Patricius
since 2000-08-30
Posts 11132San Juan, Puerto Rico |
incubus.....SCIENCE |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Abbe, how about the orginal version..ok Buckley has a much broader vocal range but no one can deliver a song like Lenny Cohen. What else, A perfect circle Interpol The pixies The roots When I am on a pedestal, you did not raise me there Your laws do not compel me to kneel grotesque and bare. Leonard Cohen |
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anonymousfemale Member Elite
since 2000-02-02
Posts 2797Limbo |
In a completely random order: Rammstein Coal Chamber Tori Amos Black tape for a blue girl VNV Nation Sepultura Fiona Apple Early Slipknot Early SOAD Early Korn Manson Misfits Dead Kennedys Placebo Suicide Commando (with thanks to brian )Taproot Violent New Breed KMFDM Ehh...that'll do. "Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." -- Gore Vidal |
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Bec Member
since 2001-02-23
Posts 475Canberra |
Someone has probably already said this, but as far as I know, poets don't listen to a particular sort of music? I love and appreciate a huge range of music... country, jazz, classical, top 40, rock, alternative, 60s, 70s, 80s... the list goes on. It's all good for different reasons, so I guess it really depends on the mood you're in! Bec "Poetry and Hums aren't things which you get, they're things which get you. And all you can do is to go where they can find you." |
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Anvrill Senior Member
since 2002-06-21
Posts 710in the interzone now |
This is me, being glad I missed the debates in the middle of this thing, because... Well, I'm painfully opinionated. Punk and industrial are also two things I've recently been studying, so it's good I got the chance to keep my mouth shut. Anyway, this is currently what I own: Age of Electric, Bauhaus, The Beach Boys, The Beatles, Bif Naked, Bikini Kill, The Birthday Party, Blue Rodeo, David Bowie, Michelle Branch, Kate Bush, Carnivore, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Christian Death, Leonard Cohen, The Cruxshadows, The Cult, The Cure, Delerium, Depeche Mode, Diary of Dreams, Econoline Crush, Faith & the Muse, Fields of the Nephilim, Great Big Sea, The Halo Friendlies, Darren Hayes, Hoobastank, Billy Idol, Killing Joke, Kittie, Avril Lavigne, Linkin Park, LiveonRelease, Madonna, Marilyn Manson, Sarah McLachlan, Mediaeval Baebes, Mephisto Walz, Mesh, Metallica, The Mission U.K, Modern English, Moist, Moonspell, Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Orff, Our Lady Peace, Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, The Ramones, Razed in Black, Savage Garden, The Sex Pistols, Silverchair, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Sisters of Mercy, The Slits, The Smiths, Stabbing Westward, everything Jim Steinman has ever pretend to touch (which means solo career, Meat Loaf stuff, Bonnie Tyler stuff, Pandora's box stuff, etc.), System of a Down, Tapping the Vein, tATu, The Tea Party, Tegan and Sarah (they're from *my* city, and they've actually been heard of outside of it!), 30 Seconds to Mars, Tones on Tail, Type O Negative, U2, David Usher. Think that about covers it. So I've got... Bluegrass/country, Irish traditional, euro-dance, candy-alternative, pure rock, industrial, ethereal, shock-rock, techno, synth-pop, pure pop, goth, cybergoth (a small gasp away from industrial, really), punk, new wave, metal, folk-rock, grunge, symphonic rock ... etc. With heavy leanings toward mid-eastern sounds, and vicious attachments to artists from my own country. And this is before we get into my unhealthy obsession with musicals. Lori needs to lighten up! TOOOO many CDs. Need more. Heh. Especially need more female vocals.... Too many men! Eh. They're all cool. remember the sound |
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defenestrate Junior Member
since 2003-01-10
Posts 46nc, us |
i listen to a variety of styles, but focus mostly on rock derivatives of various sorts. some of my favorite music has been done by (classical) bach, beethoven, mozart, schubert, schnabel (classics) yes, zeppelin, beatles, stones, croce, james taylor, CSNY, simon & garfunkel, pink floyd, old aerosmith, black sabbath (modern) tool, deftones, system of a down, converge, every time i die, curl up and die, between the buried and me (detecting a motif, are we?), the dillinger escape plan, coalesce, godflesh, radiohead, ministry, alice in chains, soundgarden, pearl jam, nirvana, days of the new (particularly their 2nd album) tori amos, sarah maclachlan, ani difranco, patti griffin, aimee mann, astral projection, juno reactor, the ramones (i know, not THAT new) (meditative) jeffery thompson, paul avgerinos, tony scott. there are bazillions more, but those came to mind, and are not meant to fall in any particular order of preference, though i'm going to say converge (kind of a hardcore/metalcore band) is probably my single favorite at the moment. i play and write music, mostly in the solo acoustic singer/songwriter vein, drawing influences from everything i've ever heard and liked. i'm working on a kind of convergence of celtic/bluegrass/mathcore at present, but it's slow going. |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
"Underneath your clothes there's an endless story..." Shakira [This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (03-15-2003 02:29 PM).] |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Norah Jones, Macey Gray, Tracey Chapman, Chet Barker, Alicia Keys, Sade, Sting, Rod Stewart, oh too many! |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Nevermore ~ Dreaming Neon Black [Meet me in the dreamtime water, drown Shifting shaping currents flow in memory swim through me Meet me in the drowning pool of tears And wash away my innocence and fear...] |
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Opeth Senior Member
since 2001-12-13
Posts 1543The Ravines |
Extreme ~ Three Sides To Every Story Isn't that the truth. "Politi-ca-politi-ca-politi-ca-lamity!" |
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Ringo
since 2003-02-20
Posts 3684Saluting with misty eyes |
I listen to, literally, all of it... There is just so much good music out there that if you don't listen to it all, you will miss something. And I am inspired differently by each style. |
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chasing rain Senior Member
since 2001-05-15
Posts 737Canada |
The Benjaman Gate! |
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SPIRIT Senior Member
since 2002-12-29
Posts 1745California Desert |
Willie Nelson - On top of my list. Michael Bolton - The critics pull him apart, but he's on my list. Love his CD 'My Secret Passion" The Three Tenors. Native American Flute music. Glenn Yarbrough - especially his 'Divine Love' CD Never liked the Beatles very much, in the 60's I preferred The Dave Clark Five. Humphrey Littleton and his Traditional Jazz. Lou Rawls. Julie London. Soft Classical Andre Rieu - violin. Never much of an Elvis fan, but as I have gotten older appreciate him more. Queen - thought Freddie Mercury was great. BUT I just love most music and my mood governs my choices. |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
just discovered the genius of Soundgarden... had a few of their albums but never gave them much time until now... "Aboard a shipwreck train, give my umbrella to the rain dogs For I am a rain dog, too" Tom Waits |
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Tabitha LeAnn Member
since 2003-03-27
Posts 50Kansas, USA |
I listen to everything mostly: eminem 50cent dr. dre snoop dogg bach motzart brauhms trisha yearwood celeine dion travis tritt p.o.d disturbed rolling stones and everything else!!! |
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