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Critical Analysis #2
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Meredith: "The Illiterate"
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Meredith: "The Illiterate" |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/19282 Sorry, this month you'll have to push the link in order to read the poem. It's a sonnet variation and think it has to be read as a whole to get the full effect. The two main points are these I guess: 1. Structurally, does the repetition rather than rhyme enhance or detract? 2. It ends with a rhetorical question. But is it rhetorical? Linda Gregerson in Radiant Lyre doesn't think so. She thinks it can be answered. And the answer she gives is both convincing and powerful (Can something be powerful without being convincing? Convincing without being powerful?). I'll post her answer in a couple of days. I didn't in fact see it until she pointed it out (but then banged my head on a wall because it makes so much sense), but I wonder if anybody else can 'get' it. One quick note: The general idea behind the monthly showcases is to alternate between contemporary (read 20th century) and earlier stuff. I broke that rule this month, but next month, if I don't change my mind, we'll go back two hundred years to a poem that everybody knows. The reason I want to showcase that one is Bloom has an interesting reading of this most famous of poems and that's what I want to showcase. The poem begins: "Tyger, Tyger, burning bright"  |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Not being a huge Shakespeare fan, I totally missed the “dark girl” thing at first. But the repeated end line words made the intent rather obvious, don’t you think? Clever poem. Thanks for posting it, Brad. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I don't know. It wouldn't be the first time I've missed the bloody obvious. I see your point though -- perhaps. I would only argue that it, I think, transcends sexual preference. The first line: quote: is intriguing in itself but the rest of the poem modifies that 'man' and the question: quote: is intended to refer to the feeling that happens when the speaker is 'touching your goodness'. What would you call it? |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I'd call that feeling love. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“What would you call his feeling for the words That keep him rich and orphaned and beloved? “ Fear, the darkest day of his life. If he opens the letter he could still be poor or ashamed or jilted. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
This line confuses me: "Or his parents died before he sent them word," Word of WHAT? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Or his parents died before he sent them word, “ When he was young he ran off and joined the circus, his parents grieved for years not knowing where he was. He was afraid the letter was from one of his parents telling of the others death , they died without knowing that he was alive and well. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
“His uncle could have left the farm to him”. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Brad, I would say that "hope" is almost as good of an answer to that last question as "love". If it is love, it is a nascent kind unperturbed by (even fearful of) particulars, content to dream rather than wake. Stephen |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“His uncle could have left the farm to him”. That would have been the best thing. He could learn to read , buy his parents a tombstone, and even marry the dark girl . |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
I still don't get it, and await the "reveal." I think, though, that this is a grand example of what Grinch talks about when he talks about the validity of any given interpretation. His position has been, if I don't misquote him, is that all interpretations are valid. I think he might say "equally valid," and there we would disagree. One of the neat parts about this thread is that it looks at rhethorical rather than metrical issues. The rhyme scheme, in terms of meaning and effect, seems neutral. It doesn't call undue attention to itself, which is good. In the isolated realm of craftsmanship, it's downright slick. The repetition seems highly nuanced, with contextual shifts each time a word or phrase is reiterated. I don't know if this calls attention to itself, or helps the reader pay attention, or if there is really much difference between the two. And I still don't get it. Best, Jimbeaux [This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (05-15-2008 05:46 PM).] |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ I'll post her answer in a couple of days.” Brad, its been more than a couple days now and we are starting to get a little antsy . |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: You say tomAto, I say tomaato. What you call repetition, Brad, I would call identity rhyme, or rime riche, especially within the octave, but also extending to the sestet. For example, hand in L2 has a very different meaning than hand in L3, just as means in L6 is not the same as means in L7. Similarly, beloved in the sestet is used first as a noun and then as an adjective. Arguably, I think, almost no word in the sonnet is repeated in the same context, ergo there is no repetition. I'd really like to call them rhymes, because The Illiterate then becomes a standard Petrarchan sonnet (though little else about the poem could be called standard). I think that fits especially well, since Petrarch was famous (some would say irritatingly infamous) for his own identity rhymes, especially the Italian contraction l'aura (translation: the air) with the name of his mistress (Laura, of course). As a Petrarchan sonnet, we immediately know it is almost certainly about love (agreeing with Jennifer), probably a very idealistic or unattainable love, and we also know the octave is going to introduce and develop a problem or thought, with the sestet then commenting on or resolving the problem or thought. So, the structure, I think, tells us a whole lot about Meredith's intent. I especially enjoyed this poem because I've always had a soft spot for extended metaphor, something I use a lot in my own work. This may well be the first example I've run across of an extended simile, and as Brad already implied, it's vital to understanding the poem. It's certainly not about some guy who can't read, and I have to suspect it would be a mistake to get too hung up on the details of that guy's life. If the poem isn't about him, it's certainly not about his uncle, parents or possibly fickle girlfriend, either. The details don't matter, the emotions those details engender do. I don't think it's a coincidence that the first three lines of the sestet tie those individual emotions together with ORs, while the final line ties them together with ANDs. With the understanding that rewording a poem of this caliber is a bit like using a Magic Marker to help explain a Picasso or Rembrandt, here's what I get from this sonnet. I've never felt this way about anyone before. Didn't know I could. I want to know what it means, where it will go, but I'm scared to death to ask you. Afraid of what you might say. Or not say. So, I will keep my silence, accepting instead the raging conflicts inherent in not knowing. What would you call my feelings for this silence that allows me to keep feeling rich and orphaned and beloved all at the same time? Brad, I commend you on a truly delightful thread. I've never read Meredith before, but you can be certain I soon will. This is one of the best modern poems I've ever seen. I very much look forward to your post on a potential resolution to the poet's seemingly rhetorical question. I honestly can't think of any single, satisfying answer. Just a whole slew of judgmental ones? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ It's certainly not about some guy who can't read, and I have to suspect it would be a mistake to get too hung up on the details of that guy's life. If the poem isn't about him, it's certainly not about his uncle, parents or possibly fickle girlfriend, either.” If it’s not about the above, will we ever know what it is about. Is Linda going to tell us ? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
(Can something be powerful without being convincing? Convincing without being powerful?).” I’d like to give a go at that one. Powerful without being convincing: George Bush , he could pick up his phone and carpet bomb Iran and probably not convince to many that it was necessary. Convincing without being powerful :Saddam Hussein, he made the world think he had it when he didn’t. |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
Brad? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Brad, I just read Linda’s interpretation of the poem and I am now beating my head against the wall, but not for the same reason you did . I guess I just have a bad case of rubeitos . I sure hope they don’t find a cure. |
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