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HEARTBREAKABLE
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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HEARTBREAKABLE |
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Bill Shirnberg Member
since 2007-10-28
Posts 50USA AOK |
I WOULD TRY TO CLIMB BUT WHEN I DO I DROP I FELL IN A WELL WITH THE BOTTOM ON TOP AND THE AIR TASTES OF RUST WHEN I BREATHE SOMETHING BLEEDS FOR MY LOVE I'M CONVICTED AS THESE DAY'S HAVE DECREED [This message has been edited by Bill Shirnberg (03-25-2008 11:51 PM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
First STOP SHOUTING! All uppercase is the internet way to indicate shouting. Also breath is a noun. Breathe is the verb you needed. |
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Bill Shirnberg Member
since 2007-10-28
Posts 50USA AOK |
THAT CANT POSSIBLY BE A BIG ENOUGH DEAL TO WARRANT A COMMENT. I COULD CARE LESS FOR SILLY INTERNET RULES. I DON'T CONSIDER UPPERCASE RUDE AT ALL ITS JUST MY STYLE SORRY. THEN AGAIN MAYBE I'M TO TOUCHY I DON'T LIKE BEING CHASTISED FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN CONTENT IS ALL |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
THEANCIENTGREEKSUSEDCONTINUOUSCAPITALSBUTDIDNOTUSESPACES BETWEENTHEMEITHER |
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A.Grace Junior Member
since 2008-03-02
Posts 31 |
Writing in all caps may be your "style" but it's not appealing to readers. What I see is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Poems are also about presentation, so I would think having this pointed out to you is just as important as getting critiqued on the actual content itself. JUST MY OPINION A. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
If you post here in CA then you are subject to being "CHASTISED" for anything the readers may find to be wrong with your writing. That's just CA's style. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
THEGREEKSTYLE IDONOTCAREHOWITISWROTE IFITISWORTHMETAKINGNOTE BUTTHISONEHEREISREALLYBAD ANDASAPOETTHATMAKESMESAD SHIRNBERG STYLE I DO NOT CARE HOW IT IS WROTE IF IT IS WORTH ME TAKING NOTE BUT THIS ONE HERE IS REALLY BAD AND AS A POET THAT MAKES ME SAD [This message has been edited by chopsticks (03-27-2008 09:41 AM).] |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Chopsticks: .lived yls eth, sdrawkcab gnihtyreve etorw icniVaD  Bill: Too much defense, perhaps, of too weak a poem, but keep on stylin'! Jimbeaux |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Now write in Boustrophedon-wise ?esived elyts retteb a nac ohw Methinks it may be best to learn .nrut lliw xo eht sa tsuj etirw ot (Anyone know how to reverse letters so they face the other direction?) [This message has been edited by Essorant (03-27-2008 03:14 PM).] |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
" lived yls eth, sdrawkcab gnihtyreve etorw icniVaD " Ocean, that expails that letter I got from him and couldn't read . Essorant, I know how to reverse a parlay at the track. But that doesn' make the horses run backwards , sometime mine look like they are running backwards. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi ESS: I tried the mirror image technique a few months ago. It works if you scan the material, put the scan into Photo Shop and fratz with it. A little too much work for a jest, but do-able. Best, Jim |
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Bill Shirnberg Member
since 2007-10-28
Posts 50USA AOK |
IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH EFFORT TO RUN SOME ONE DOWN THESE DAYS IT SEEMS THE NUMBER ONE PASS TIME ON THE NET. THINK I'LL RIGHT IN UPPER CASE TELL THEY THROWS ME OUT OF THIS BASTION OF CONFORMITY. UPPER CASE ALL IN YOUR FACE AS A POINTLESS PROTEST IN THE POINTLESS AGE OF POINTLESS CRITICISM. YOUR ALL BETTER MEN AND WOMEN FOR EXPENDING THE TREMENDOUS EFFORT AND DEDICATION IT REQUIRED TO TYPE A FEW DISPARAGING WORDS IN THIS HEAR RESPONSE BOX . WHERE WOULD THIS NATION BE WITHOUT SMART ALACKS GOD ONLY KNOWS.WHEN THIS COUNTRY NEEDED YOU YOU ANSWERED THE CALL. I STAND HUMBLY CORRECTED. YES GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND I MEAN THAT FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY BLEED'N HEART. I HAVE TO STOP NOW AS I'M GET'N ALL TEARY EYED. YOU'LL ALL BE IN MY PRAYERS TONIGHT THOUGH. HA HA I LIED I'LL NEVER STOP CONVINCINGLY ALL PRAISE THE DYNAMIC BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING WE MUST BE OF ONE MINDLESS KINDLESS HOARD TRULY I DON'T MUCH CARE FOR THE POEM MYSELF AS HATE MOST POETRY ON SIGHT. BUT AS AN CONFIRMED SADIST I GLEEFULLY CHOSE TO SUFFER IT UPON THE UNSUSPECTING MASSES. ANY WAY I WROTE THIS WHILE ON THE CELL PHONE AND YOU ALL KNOW YOU HAVE TO SHOUT WHEN YOUR ON THE CELL PHONE. BECAUSE EVEN IF THEIRS A BAD CONNECTION YOUR FRIENDS CAN STILL HEAR YOU MILES AWAY. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
That there poem written on a phone, Should’ve been signed poet unknown . Don’t know about the others here; But that there poem sure hurt my ear. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
You can shout if you want to, Bill, but we can hear you better when you whisper as you did in "defective prayer", which, imho, was your best poem so far. "my fears and doubts divide my despair As the angels pierce sound Through the rarefied air guess that Holy Ghosts got no time to spare So I’m go’n where I go When I’m go’n no where She don’t care" |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: :The worst are full of passionate intensity! Well, this has begun to irritate me. I didn't really have a problem with the caps, but this annoys me. So, I'm gonna zap it! You have 24 hours (about)to copy anything you guys want to copy or convince me that there's anything of aesthetic merit worth discussing here. Otherwise, it's gone. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Brad - what is the "this" that annoys you and what is the "it" that you're going to zap? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Too much defense, perhaps, of too weak a poem .” Brad, Ocean nailed it with the above quote. I think Bill is having as much fun with us as we are with him. Unless Bill wants it zapped , I say leave it alone. Bill ain’t done nothing wrong and neither has anybody else. I know I haven’t done anything wrong . I’m almost perfect. Poems are critiqued by other poems all the time on here. |
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Bill Shirnberg Member
since 2007-10-28
Posts 50USA AOK |
Ok I was just being on errr reee all in fun. I was just to lazy to hit the caps lock. No thats not the truth.The truth is much harder for me to admit. The truth is I was very much a feared to use that key. Caps lock sounds vaguely sinister and threatening some how. But the first step is to admit your fears and seek help as I have. After two day's of grueling, intensive and highly overpriced therapy, I have made as you can see a major breakthrough.I hit that nasty lookin little sucker and nothing bad what so ever happened.Finally I'm free! free of this suffocating shameful overbearing burden. freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I'd like to thank the academy and all of those that stood by me in the darkest hours of my journey down the shining path through self realization. Man I got to switch to decaf our get to not havin so much time on my hands. probably both |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Bill, Your fears and caffeine issues are irrelevant. Chop, "John, I'm only dancing" points don't cut it. Jennifer, it: this mockery of poetry, the group of letters designated as HEARTBREAKBLE Annoying things: 1. Arguing that you can do anything you want on this board. You can't. 2. Pretending to mock or mocking ideas of liberty. Hiding behind the same idea that you mock. 3. Sadism. As long it's intentional. 4. Bill has 25 posts to his name. As far as I can tell, he has NEVER commented on a poem other than his own. 5. Bill is so busy with his ironic detachment/self-attachment that he's forgotten the reason for this board's existence. If you don't like poetry, don't post here. If you don't want to write poetry, don't post here. If you don't want to talk about poetry, don't post here. With that said, talk about poetry and it stays up. We're only joking or 'he has a right' are not issues of poetry. Or maybe they are?  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
The best lack all conviction Brad. I thought the poem was disjointed and lacked focus. I also thought that the first stanza was a mix of confusing tenses, that may have been intentional but if so it didn’t really work for me. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Are you saying, Brad, that you were going to zap Bill’s poem? Do you have the authority to zap any poem just because you don’t like it, even if it in no way violates the rules? I found it very telling that Bill quickly edited breath to breathe after the typo was pointed out to him. Perhaps he’s far more interested in poetry and polishing up his poems than you think or he’s comfortable admitting in a public forum? Anyway - Grinch is such a nice person, never mocks or belittles anyone’s poems, personality or style, yet gives his honest opinion and leaves constructive, thoughtful and helpful comments. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
I have the authority to determine what is appropriate for this forum. Where did I say I disliked the poem? I am actually indifferent. My point is that so is he (You are obviously a far better mind reader than I am. Why choose one action over several comments designed to show a lack of concern?). As far as I can tell (Until Grinch posted and actual reaction to the poem), so is everybody else. Why waste the space? You're avoiding the point, Jennifer. If you think the poem is worth talking about, talk about it. Talk about the poem, not the person. Or, bring up your concerns in a more straightforward manner (authority, power, defining poetry, aesthetic freedom or whatever). The choice is yours. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
“this mockery of poetry, the group of letters designated as HEARTBREAKBLE” Maybe it’s just me, but doesn’t that statement smack more of strong dislike for the poem on your part rather than indifference? I think I expressed my concern in a very straightforward manner when I asked you if you had the authority to delete a poem that in no way violated the rules just because you didn’t like it. Unless the poem violates the rules, how can it be deemed “inappropriate” and why should it be deleted or why would you want to delete it? Is there a certain standard of “aesthetic merit” that must be met? I’ve posted a lot of clunker poems in this forum and never had any deleted. Isn’t this forum supposed to be a place where anyone, experienced poet or novice can offer or post for critique? I wouldn’t call it mind reading, more like it’s been my experience that when people are put on the defensive, often their actions speak louder than any words penned in an attempt to save face. As for talking about the person instead of the poem, just following your lead, Brad. And as for wasting space, I think if one is really interested in what makes poetry work, then any poem is worth talking about. Don’t you? One can learn from what doesn’t work as well as from what does. This poem doesn’t work for me, it sounds like a sing song quickie to my ear, but I know the poet can do better, he has and I hope, will again. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
If you want to call the intent of a forum a rule, then I'm just following the rules, I guess. quote: I thought I was paraphrasing the author's own sentiments. I also said: "I am actually indifferent." quote: But I never said I was going to zap it because I dislike it. I said that if the author considers it tripe and nobody else sees anything worth talking about, why is it here? quote: Give me a reason that I shouldn't delete it and I won't. quote: Of course. I really do think though that you're trying to talk about something that I didn't say. My guess, and I'm only guessing, is that you think I'm making an aesthetic judgement here. I'm not. I am trying to get others to make an aesthetic judgement. Why else would you post in here? Now, usually, I don't have to worry about any of that because 90% of the time there is at least one person who does think it merits discussion (the author) -- even if he or she thinks it is bad, there's still something that compels said author to post it. The author doesn't think so here. I'm not going to delve into the psychology here, I'm not going to guess what he really feels. Look, do you know how many requests we get to delete poems that we can't address? quote: So have I. Clunkers come with the territory. quote: Is this what Bill did? Why does he want a critique? Does he? I don't see it. quote: And I agree. My reaction would be quite different if it was a first post. Bill should know better by now. I see no reason to condescend to someone at this stage in the game. quote: Indeed, I haven't talked about the poem. And if nobody does, it goes. You still haven't said anything about the poem yet. You did say that another one was better than this but that was still essentially in the caps argument. Do you consider that a serious consideration? quote: Honestly, no. quote: Here, yes, absolutely. quote: And there we go. To be honest, I was trying to tease you into discussing 'aesthetic merit' a bit more. It sounded like, and again I'm guessing, that you subscribe to a kind of aesthetic relativism. But an aesthetic relativism is no more tenable than a cultural relativism. Sorry if this is unclear, I'm pressed for time. I'll try to get back if you want to continue. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I wish you’d been as straightforward with me, Brad, as I was with you. I feel very demeaned, manipulated and used knowing you were trying to “tease” me into doing something. I deserve far better than that. Everyone does. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Are you kidding? |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Were you kidding when, like a petulant child, you threatened to delete the poem unless I gave you a reason not to? “Give me a reason that I shouldn't delete it and I won't.” I haven’t heard a challenge like that since the second grade when the schoolyard bully grabbed my lunch and threatened to throw it in a puddle. You’ve got the magic zapper, Brad, and the list of invisible (or imaginary) rules known only to you that you drag out whenever something or someone annoys or displeases you, so I guess you can delete anything you wish and do it on a whim. But before you start zapping away, you might want to consider the old adage about flies, vinegar and honey and try asking nicely for what you want rather than teasing or threatening in order to get it. You just might find far more productive. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, as far as I can tell, you haven't really read or understood anything I've said. I guess that's my fault. Honey and vinegar? I see it as more akin to a man walking into the lady's room and when told where he was decided to make a stand for equal rights. I'm the janitor. And as for what you think, what you really think about poetry and aesthetics, I guess that will have to wait for another day -- if ever. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ I see it as more akin to a man walking into the lady's room and when told where he was decided to make a stand for equal rights. I'm the janitor.” Brad , I love that I’ve got a couple guys I am going to use it on tonight right after old business. “ Honey and vinegar ? “ Brad , I can’t believe you don’t know the parable about the honey and vinegar : It’s about this person that found out that they could get more flies using honey than using vinegar . Why they wanted more flies. has never been clear to me. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Why they wanted more flies. has never been clear to me. One of the best lines I've read here!  |
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