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Critical Analysis #2
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The Liars Table
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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The Liars Table |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
The liars table I would like to meet the people that Johnny talks about. He is a friend I meet for lunch on days that I get out. We sit at the liar's table With several other guys. Johnny is the king because He tells the biggest lies I've heard that every story has A little bit of truth But I can't believe the one he told About the voting booth." "In forty-eight, I voted twenty times" He gestures with his hand "each one of them for Truman, who became the winning man." "It was in a Chicago paper That Dewey had won the race. They hadn't counted my twenty yet", He said, with smiling face. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Yep, that's what it means. You know how you mean for it to sound and it sounds that way for you...but it's not read that way by others. That's one of the hardest parts in writing a poem.....structuring it so that others will read it the way you intended. For example, in your line "with a couple other guys" (which is very clumsy) you could use "with several other guys" to get the six syllables you want. "AHA!", you exclaim. "That line has seven syllables!" Well, it does and it doesn't. There ARE seven syllables there but, if you read it the way it is intended and constructed your mind will take "several" as a two-syllable word. with sevral other guys Poe was a master of this. He could take 17 syllables and make you use only fourteen of them by his construction. The bottom line is that it is not how many syllables that are written but how many that are used. btw, "I have heard that every story" has eight syllables, not the six you list. NOTE: This is another example. There are actually 9 syllables but, since we use "evry" instead of "every", that makes 8. This would not be a bad poem to recite. I tried it and can make it come out sounding fine, which I'm sure is what you did with the same results. It just doesn't sit well on paper. Aside from that, there are some lines in there not worth their weight and forced rhymes that cheapen the piece which I will be happy to go into if you like later on. Up to you... The idea of the poem is excellent... |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
"I will be happy to go into if you like later on. Up to you...” Thanks Balladeer, I would like that very much. When you are ready, tell me the plan. |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Great. I have a date with a 3-iron right nowbut I'll be back later and give you my suggestions...see ya later  |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Thanks again, at your leisure . |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Ok, I hope my critique goes better than my three-foot putts First stanza is great. I wouldn't change a thing. Second stanza.....I would change "couple other guys" mainly because it is not grammatically correct, not only because the syllable count is off. I would go with "several other guys". "Johnny is the chairman. He tells the biggest lies" is ok but I think it would be more fluid if you used one sentence instead of two short ones. Something like "Johnny is the king because.....He tells the biggest lies." True, the first sentence has 7 syllables instead of 8 but we can get away with that because the line has switched to trochaic from iambic and we can use trochaic as implied iambic, which adds a silent syllable at the beginning. If that sounds complicated....it is!  You may wonder why we can't say "Johnny is the chairman because.." to get the 8 syllables but then the rythym is lost.I have heard that every story has a little bit of truth Nothing wrong here unless you want to maintain the 8-6 syllable count. You can do that by saying "I've heard that every story has....a little bit of truth." "believe" has to go because it kills the rythym. The second line needs to be shortened to 6. I would suggest "But I can't believe the one he told.....about the voting booth." True the first line has gone to nine syllables but the first three are said so quickly, we can claim poetic license because it still sounds right. In forty-eight, I voted twenty times. Then he gestures with his hand . The first line, of course, is way out on the count- but it's a direct quoteand I would let it stand (with quotation marks) "Then" is superfluous and adds to the count unnecessarily. He was the winning man just doesn't sound right for me, makes it sound like you're fishing for a rhyme. I would go with something like "each one of them for Truman, who became the winning man." It was in a Chicago paper That Dewey had won the race. Ok there. The "had" isn't really necessary and throws the count offbut why nitpick?  A happy smile came on his face. Not a good line...a little too clumsy. I would use "He said,with smiling face. So my revisions would come out to be something like this..... I would like to meet the people that Johnny talks about. He is a friend I meet for lunch on days that I get out. We sit at the liar's table With several other guys. Johnny is the king because He tells the biggest lies I've heard that every story has A little bit of truth But I can't believe the one he told About the voting booth." "In forty-eight, I voted twenty times" He gestures with his hand "each one of them for Truman, who became the winning man." "It was in a Chicago paper That Dewey had won the race. They hadn't counted my twenty yet", He said, with smiling face. Anyway, that's my input. You may accept or reject any part of it and that's fine with me. If I said anything that helps, great.  |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Balladeer,everything you said will help. It will take me sometime to digest all of what you said. The poem is a true story and John will tell you that he is part of history. I am going to try to write better poetry ; because that is the way it should be done. Thanks again and you are the poet laureate. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
I think Balladeer's points were excellent. But a few more adjustments to make the stresses a bit more consistent may help. Giving all the lines rhyme may give it a bit more poetic impact as well. Here is a loose suggestion: I wish someday to meet the bunch that Johnny talks about, Johnny, the friend I meet for lunch, on days that I get out. When sitting at the liar's table With several other guys, Johnny is king for being able To tell the biggest lies. I heard that stories always hold A little bit of truth But can't believe the one he told About the voting booth. "In forty-eight, my votes were done to twenty from my hand For Truman, all and every one, who winner came to stand." "Chicago paper had it set That Dewey won the race. They had not found my twenty yet", He said with smiling face. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Essorant, your rendition is excellent too. You are the Canadian poet laureate It’s a lot more work to make each line rhyme. I have checked it out and I do own both of the renditions. LOL If I may, I am going to LOL: it a little bit more . If Brad or Grinch would critique it to the point that we didn’t know who Johnny voted for or if he even voted , now that would be critiquing . I sure hope you guys have a sense of humor. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
quote: Johnny would deserve the crown And you could make it clear to see If you added in another verse That he was only twenty-three |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
My pleasure, chopsticks. I admire any man who does his best to put in an effort to do the best he can, instead of just writing down lines. Best to ya... |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Chops, a funny clear story. I love to read it. Sir Balladeer made it better and I learnt a lot from his writing. Sir Essorant's is a wonderful one. Do you mean that either Brad or Grinch will help to unlear your poem? That would be very interesting to read. [This message has been edited by TomMark (11-01-2007 08:46 AM).] |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Thanks Tom, I could tell by Balladeer’s reply that we were all going to learn and Essorant just kept on stirring the pot with good stuff. I was inviting Brad and Grinch to write a ~ Johnny who ~ rendition to the poem. Some of you may not have got it but Grinch did. Grinch only wrote one stanza but that is all it took at least for me. Grinch, I got it loud and clear. Will Brad debunk Johnny, maybe if he finds the time ? |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Some of you may not have got it but Grinch did." Got what? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
"Got what?" Essorant, I'm not sure. I just thought he needed a hug. I may know what he got ,but it would be a guess. You know that he speaks the mysterious language at times. I'm don't know, me oxymoron, nobody talk. |
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