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brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland

0 posted 2001-07-18 04:19 PM


There is a whisper in the wind,
a gentle warmth following me home.
There is a rustling in the trees,
The swaying of flowering leaves.
There is a voice of belief,
I found it with my eyes, raised
not on my knees.
I found it on my own
just it found me.
There is a rustling in the trees,
they cut them down to print words,
maybe even bibles.
I searched through those words in between
the lines, but my faith they failed to define.

I went searching for God.
The church lay silent,
it is his house
but he was not in.
I felt no need to confess my sins,
I understand their existence.

I went searching for God and found
my peace in reflection, there is a faith
without rejection. It is a presence
not born of the man made word.
It is the love in the song of every bird.
I found God in me, is that so hard to believe?
I found God in the earth, growing as a tiny plant.
I found God no judging or being judged.
I found God not at the gates of Heaven
but in the earth. He is attainable,
infinity only in us.






© Copyright 2001 brian madden - All Rights Reserved
deleeme
Senior Member
since 1999-10-09
Posts 1766
NEW ENGLAND, USA
1 posted 2001-07-18 05:28 PM


Many are the varied results from man's search for God.  God can be found in His material created world- at least evidence of His existence. Psalm 19:1 say The Heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handiwork. Also, Psalm 24:1 say, The earth is the LORD's and the fullness thereof, the earth, and they at dwell therein.  Keep looking- I believe you will find him more & more,
Interesting read,
  David

Every Day's a Blessing
And Gift-Wrapped from Above,
Share it with another
And Spread the Father's Love!!!

May You come to Know His Best Blessing

[This message has been edited by deleeme (edited 07-18-2001).]

brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
2 posted 2001-07-18 06:13 PM


David, it is strange but in all the years I was a christian I found it hard as a teenager to deal with my emotions and my religion they were in conflict with each other. Personal I don't believe God is grounded in word or within scripture. God is an energy, something that is part of us and that we ae part of us. I remember when I read about Taoism it focused everything for me. Taoism is not a religion but rather a philosophy. I think the search for GOd should not be confined just to church. Everyone finds God on their own terms.  

Isis
Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-06
Posts 6296
Sunny Queensland
3 posted 2001-07-18 09:54 PM


Brian this is beautiful hon!  We all find God in our own way, every story is different.
It doesn't matter how you found him, only that you have!!!
Some days, I find myself just like you, looking around at all his miracle and all his love, which is evident in so many things - Nature, people etc.

Isis

*The greatest warrior is one that does not need to fight* ~Isis~



Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
4 posted 2001-07-18 10:43 PM


Brian, no doubt I understand your frustration with the all too often "emptiness" of many religious settings... It's what I often refer to as "churchianity" rather than Christianity.  I've been both hurt and disallusioned by many of the same things.  But just make doubly sure you're not throwing out the "gold and costly gems" along with the "wood, hay and stubble" of religion.  I did this for a long time.  

It's just that the concept of finding God on my own terms has recently unsettled me...(not that I've never tried).  I always get the sneaking suspicion that if I believe that I am finding God on my own terms, he will be no real "God" at all.  After all, when I've made him accountable to my own standards and subserviant to my  preferences, he is a "god" of my own making... a graven image and reflection of myself...  And in the final analysis I don't want to worship a god like that.  I've failed myself too many times, and I need a true savior.

I still think the most awesome truth about God is his own passionate search for us through Jesus Christ.  Not to be argumentative toward you, but this is the truth which always blows to smithereens any pretentions that I've held of finding God on my own, or already having him in myself.  The cross never fails to put those kind of ideas to death in me... even the most dearly held and sincere ones.

But what I am saying in no way disputes your assertion that God is revealed in the wonderous creation, and in ourselves as part of that creation.  There is a Psalm that declares "I am fearfully and wonderfully made".  And truely God is not bound up in the bible alone, the stars of the cosmos and the beauties of the Earth do a whole lot of preaching themselves.

Respectfully,

Stephen

rwood
Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793
Tennessee
5 posted 2001-07-19 06:49 AM


Dear Brian, How I understand your words. I wandered too from searching. I must honor the Lord in provoking that search. My convictions ran so deep that it kept me running for a long time. When I finally slowed down and really wanted my eyes opened to him...as terrified as I was..I found his beauty too. All around me. But I couldn't close my eyes any longer to what made him sad too. I went to the Bible to find what I could do to stop and understand the pain. Even when we crucified Christ, there is beauty in his plan. I find the Bible a book about God's plan and the map to his Kingdom. Because even though we find him...we have to keep up in our walk of life. It's so easy to fall away. I feel your description of faith, and spiritual fulfilment is an honor to him and beautifully written. He is truly working in your life. Some people allow him in only once and their walk with him comes to a dead end. Literally.
Sincerely,
Rwood

With all things considered, why not God?

Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 2000-04-06
Posts 10263

6 posted 2001-07-19 07:35 AM


I wish I could agree with you but I dont, I do admire your conviction   I believe God is found in the man who died on the cross 2000 years and who rose again from the dead and believe me, that's not a critique, just a personal belief.  Everyone has their own right to believe, that's the beauty of poetry, we can say what we feel and believe and be respected for it!

"It's easier to kill love than to nurture it" Fred Hardesty

Kathleen

Cerenity
Member Elite
since 2000-02-16
Posts 2637
Escondido-California
7 posted 2001-07-19 10:03 AM


Hi Brian,

I enjoyed your work and feelings in this beauty, thank you for sharing.

Love, Cerenity

"God doesn't have to be reminded that we exist.
We have to be reminded that He exist!"

(Writer Unknown)



brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
8 posted 2001-07-19 01:23 PM


Isis, thank you.

Stephen, I posted a thread here awhile back titled "the most important teaching of CHrist." I have thought about my views on religion for a long time, it was not a knee jerk reaction, it was a very conscious decision. I looked towards eastern philosophy because I have strong belief in the spirit, the spirit is the person and I believe it is also God. A lot of young people turn from the chruch towards nothing, a lot of people still go to mass as ritual. I only attend mass at Christmas, but I feel I am closer to God now than ever before. I don't want to get into a debate because I respect your opinion but I have to go with what I feel.

Rwood, it is strange that the bible was one of the things that drove me. I guess I should not have focused on Levictus. For me the existance of Jesus is not crucial to my beliefs, normal prayer has never brought me peace or spiritual. I allow myself to reflect and meditate in my own my.

Kathleen, as I said religion did not work for me, I feel that the spirit is a very important part of our lives and our believes. I did not find it in the chruch. I believe it is important to find our spirits, in what ever way we can.

Cerenity, thanks.  




"Here I am in prison,here I am with a ball and chain There is whiskey in the jar-o" Traditional irish song.

Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 2000-04-06
Posts 10263

9 posted 2001-07-19 05:16 PM


Religion doesn't work for me either, Brian, in fact I believe God hates religion....surprised?
not at all...we DO agree on that!!!!!  Not religion.....a relationship, Gosh, I feel a poem coming on - thanks for the inspiration!!!

"It's easier to kill love than to nurture it" Fred Hardesty

Kathleen


[This message has been edited by Irish Rose (edited 07-19-2001).]

brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
10 posted 2001-07-19 05:46 PM


Always glad when I can inspire Kathleen LOL
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
11 posted 2001-07-19 09:41 PM


Just a thought for all...

If we could really find God of ourselves, if the answers were really within us and our spirits divine, then the death of Jesus was in vain.

Stephen.

Lighthousebob
Member Elite
since 2000-06-14
Posts 4725
California
12 posted 2001-07-20 05:58 AM







God Wrote Two Books

One is filled with works;
The other nomenclature.
One’s called the Bible;
The other is called Nature.

One is filled with words;
The other is survival.
One is called Nature;
The other is the Bible.

So, God wrote two books;
Books of Nature and Bible.
Both can set us free
And both can make us libel.


Lighthousebob
Member Elite
since 2000-06-14
Posts 4725
California
13 posted 2001-07-20 06:58 AM


I tried to post two earlier posts but the words did not come up?  Hey, words are a wonderful way of communication... that's how we communicate even here at Passions. Interesting Huh? And I do like the words that you wrote.  Both the words that you used in your poem and your comments were very interesting.  It is so cool how God created words...but without them it's real hard to make our points clear.  Truely, Nature has it's advnatages but I bet you had a real hard time figuring out what I was trying to communicate to you without my words.  I believe God wrote two books... Nature and God's Word and both are wonderful means of communication.  Your poem emphasizes the Book of Nature very well, but my opinion is that you should not forget the written Word as well.  Bob <><

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354
Listening to every heart
14 posted 2001-07-20 07:08 AM



Yes Brian...He was here before the books, before man...and created all that we have to be thankful for.

I like this very much!

[This message has been edited by Sunshine (edited 07-20-2001).]

brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
15 posted 2001-07-20 01:16 PM


Bob I hate to disagree, God wrote the book of nature. Man wrote the bible. What I mean is that God did not sit at a typewriter and write the bible himself. He wrote it through the Apostles. I have read the bible but the answers I sought were not there.

Karilea, thanks,

brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
16 posted 2001-07-20 01:18 PM



Stephen, interesting thought. Personally I feel that were not all damned to hell before Jesus was crucified. The cross is a symbol of ultimate sacrifice and a model upon which to build our lives. As I said I have a lapsed faith. I clung to Christianity for many years but when I began to question more doubts arose. I will not bore you with my beliefs. I think God comes in many forms, and even if my faith is worry or your faith is worry as long as it brings us peace and helps us to do our best and help people in a positive light. Remember the Good Samaritan.

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
17 posted 2001-07-21 10:20 AM


True, the life of Jesus is a model for us to follow.  But if all that we seek is an exemplar of social benevolence and philanthropy, others will do.  And we have  many to choose from.  The world has had no shortage of teachers who taught morality and generic "love" in one way or another.  Think about it... The main ministry of Jesus in Palestine was only about three years.  He constantly wrangled with the religious authorities (the charitable programs of that day), often spoke in parables seemingly to thin the hearers out rather than to gain popularity, talked of a kingdom "not of this world" even unto his perplexing death, which by a worldly standard is judged as untimely, wasteful, and self-induced.  If he were merely a "do-gooder" he would not have died by crucifixion, and much less envisioned in his death the very will of God.  He made claims that angered his contemporaries and puzzled his friends.  And lastly he saw in Old Testament prophecy a shadow of his very self as the "suffering servant", and "an offering for sin".  And his claims were justified by his bodily ressurection from the grave.

If you part with the doctrine of Jesus' sacrifice for sin, and his ressurrection, you have to say he was a disturbed man, fraught with delusions of grandeur who was misguided to the end, and who decieved his very followers.  

As C.S. Lewis said,  "...only two views of this man are possible.  Either he was a raving lunatic of an unusually abominable type, or else he was, and is, precisely what he said.  There is no middle way".

Saying "I don't believe in Jesus Christ" is better if that is where you are, than to reconstruct his life in such a way as to make him simply another humanitarian.  

Of course there are many who try to take this view.  I just don't think it stands up to the truth.  

respectfully,

Stephen.

(forgive me for entering into dialogue perhaps better suited for a discussion forum, but we were on the subject weren't we?)


brian madden
Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374
ireland
18 posted 2001-07-21 10:34 AM


Stephen, no please feel free to air your views you have done so in an open minded and intelligent way and have ever right to in such a manner. I think my main reason for posting this poem was to make people think and to get some discussion going. I feel that I am a spiritual person the fact that I don't look to Jesus and to God should not invalidate my feelings of spirituality. I respect my fellow man/woman as much as is possible for me. I am looking at the guideline rule "not to debate philosophies" I think we should end this discussion. I don't not disrespect the words of God, I am simply suspicious of the words of man in the name of God. My main motto in life is that everyone is free to live as thye choose as long as they don't harm themselves or others. For me God transcends words and text, I could not find God there. That is just me personally and This forum is open to exploring "individual faith and spirituality" in a respectful manner. OK I am ranting now, I enjoyed this discussion but I would like to call an end to it. Thanks for all your comments and thoughts.  
  


VAS
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-11-16
Posts 7450
Oregon
19 posted 2001-07-21 11:32 AM


oh how man (humans) can discuss and cuss God
but the truth of who He is
can only be seen in a mirror dimly
and one day face to face

and no matter how hard we discuss our interpretations, in the end the truth is the truth
and we'll not fully know until He's ready for us to know
just as the Bridegroom, in ancient tradition, is not allowed to bring the bride until the Father says His house is ready
that is when we'll get to know the fullness of the Promise and the Promisor...I'm ready when He says I'm ready

happy for you Brian that you know of God and seek His truth


WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-22
Posts 9245
Illinois
20 posted 2001-07-22 10:15 AM


This thread has been closed by request of the author.
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