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profanity
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profanity |
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JSage Member
since 2000-08-25
Posts 91Nashua, NH USA |
It seems to me that the adult forum is primarily erotica. I have poetry that is not erotica, but is not family material because of subject or language. Should all poems with profanity be put in the adult forum???? Is there a better place? |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Any poetry that isn't appropriate for reading by any member of the family should be directed to the Adult Forum. If Poet deVine, as moderator there, feels it doesn't belong there, she'll let you know via email...  |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
We're pretty democratic there...if the other members don't like it, it's gone..so far only 3 have been deleted. But also, be prepared...if they don't like it, they won't reply. Violence against others isn't a good topic to post, btw. And there is a profanity filter that applies to Adult too. Adult is a much slower forum so it will take a few days to find the concensus. (If you like, you can email it to me. I'm always available to read something from a member.) If it's as good as the two you already posted, there probably won't be a problem. I look forward to reading it!  [This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 08-28-2000).] |
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JSage Member
since 2000-08-25
Posts 91Nashua, NH USA |
thank you for the responces... one more question. If I have a poem that is not about violence or sex... maybe even a love poem, but there are swears in it.... Is it possible to post it in, say, Dark Passions, if I do this.... [profanity removed - Ron]. Any suggestions? Obviously, I don't feel that I need to post every single poem that I write on Passions, but I'm just curious about some of my work that I think is really good, but don't know if I could post. -Jes [This message has been edited by Ron (edited 09-08-2000).] |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hey Jsage... Just wanted to let you know that listing the swearwords your poetry includes (lightly disguised by astericks) is inappropriate I'm afraid...  I don't have editing power in this forum, which is why they are currently still there. Dark Passions, as with every forum, falls under exactly the same strictures of our profanity filters. I suggest you email Poet deVine to discuss it further. Thanks K |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Severn is right; asterisks don't make profanity any less profane. And I do have editing privileges in here. The criteria is really very simple, Jes. Our youngest Member (to the best of my knowledge) is nine years old. Would a reasonable person feel comfortable standing in front of a group of nine-year-olds and reading your work aloud? |
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Alle'cram Senior Member
since 2000-02-28
Posts 1816Texas |
...replies noted and appreciated...knowing so many youth's frequent the forums. {smiles}. |
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Marge Tindal 
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
We all commend Ron on his successful efforts with this wonderful site. One of the very reasons it's grown to the proportions it has is because of his attentiveness to keeping it clean for all members to enjoy. By the time most of us realize we have poetic tendencies we've long outgrown the shock value of bathroom wall graffiti. Thank you Ron Carnell ! ~*Marge*~ ~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~ noles1@totcon.com |
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JSage Member
since 2000-08-25
Posts 91Nashua, NH USA |
ok.. I understand. -Jes |
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Whatever
Unregistered
New MemberPosts 1 |
Inappropriate responses are also edited out [This message has been edited by Nan (edited 10-17-2000).] |
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Irish Rose Member Patricius
since 2000-04-06
Posts 10263 |
I particularily want to applaud Ron for his wonderful overseeing of this forum and I can only imagine how the moderators work, the poems keep pouring in. I personally feel profanity is an intrusion into our beautiful English language, and I see no place for it in expression, when we have thousands of beautiful words that would not offend, and why do we need it? Thank you Ron and all of the moderators for the fantastic job you do. I'm proud to be a part of it! Kathleen |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Sometimes this comes up again and again, a good thread to now and then... |
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NapalmsConstantlyConfused
since 2001-05-15
Posts 529 |
ok, so i can follow this, but i have two serious questions. one: how, then, since we can't post and find out which words / terms / phrases / whatever are considered profanity, are we supposed to know? i recently had a word i've heard used on prime-time tv (which is ALSO watched by 9-y/o's) blipped by the filter, so i'm sort of at a loss here. two: if there is an "adult" forum, which is of a restricted nature and oriented towards adults, and specifically NOT for viewing by youngun's, ummmmmm why is there a filter in that forum at all? i'm sure if someone posts something really offensive people will petition its removal, but this limits rather severely the value of an "adult" forum, to my eyes. hopefully someone here can / will satisfy my curiosity, as this seeming inconsistency really bothers me. -Dave, who tries to follow the rules but tends to ask "why?" |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
Everything in life is relative - and open to the interpretation of its inhabitants. It's pretty difficult to establish absolute mandates and continue to retain the Passionate flexibility we prefer to incorporate in our guidelines. Common sense is your best guide, David. When you're posting your work, consider whether you'd be comfortable reading it aloud at a family gathering - one that includes ALL age groups, toddler to centenarian... If you can comfortably say 'yes' to yourself, your work is likely acceptable for the Open Forums. What about the Adult forums then? Ask yourself a similar question. Would you be comfortable reading your work aloud to a totally adult audience? There are some things (graphically leud or violent) that simply don't belong even there. If you can look at your work and feel that it's appropriate for an adult audience, then post it in the Adult Forum. If you think it would be offensive even to adults, chances are you'll be right. Trust your own good judgment. If you're unsure - by all means - feel free to consult a moderator/administrator or two for more opinions. Any of us would be happy to help out, and we'd certainly respect your taking time to ask first... I personally thank you for taking the time to ask for clarification on this point. It's one that needs to be addressed occasionally, as we have new members joining on a regular basis...  |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
I like your signature, Dave. The Admins, Mods, and Members that I know have no problem with Why? questions. That only shows to us that you are interested. (Short plug here for the Deputy Moderating program, with behind-the-scenes education in how these forums work, hosted by our lovely Admin, Kit.) Your query as to the word filter, even in the Adult forum is valid. It's a chunk of code that is integrated into Passions as a whole...every forum has this filter. It's just the way the software is written, and I don't think Ron has had the luxury of time to rewrite the program from scratch, which I think would be what it would take to customize and optimize each individual forum, or to exclude Adult from filters while still keeping it part of the Poetry forums that have the filter. I have a feeling that if there is a check-box for the filter, it's gonna be general instead of selective. All forums, or none. P'raps Ron will be able to work on this issue when he has more time. Another point I'd like to address with the Adult forum: though profanity, adult themes, and sexual exploration are found within, rarely are the words used base or blatant. From posting, reading and replying in Adult, I've found that most of the poets try to convey vulgarities without resorting to profanities, or using the common parlance, and this takes skill. I'm sure, that if you wanted, you could cuss up a blue streak and call it poetry; but, even if the Mods and Admins left it, I doubt it would be well received. Any fool can cuss, but it takes skill to cuss without cursing. Now, even though this site is Ron's internet house, and we've agreed by joining to respect his house, he is not against changing the floor layout, or even the house rules. Heh...you should have seen this place back in Summer of '99. It was small, and simple, with a handful of forums (maybe 7 total). Now look at it. It'd be like comparing a stovetop percolator to a Braun deluxe Coffee, Espresso, Cappuccino machine. They both make coffee, and though related, are vastly different. Most of the changes made here over the past two years are due to suggestions from members. Keep asking those Why? questions, Dave. We'll do our best to answer them. Alicat the persnikitty Alley/Lounge Moderator “It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most |
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NapalmsConstantlyConfused
since 2001-05-15
Posts 529 |
thanks for the replies, both of you. However i'm still left kinda going ?huh?!? the word that i used that got blipped refers to someone whose parents weren't married - and is only "profanity" when used as a pejorative. (granted, i used it that way, and i agree with it getting blipped in the instance in question.) but what happens when that's the concept you want to express? when used as a descriptive adjective it is a completely legitimate word. i can understand the programming difficulties involved in completely re-writing the software. but this is one that ought to be on the scheduled changes list. if Ron decides to do enough of a rewrite to add "checkboxes" having at least the ability to set "levels" of security on individual forums would be a good idea. while i agree that simply standing up and screaming curses for fifteen minutes, then going "thank you" and sitting down isn't art, or poetry (although that depends on whether you ask my art teacher, lmao) the whole idea of the adult forum being apart from the rest is pointless if it's held to exactly the same content standard as all the other forums. now, granted, like nan said, mods will jump anything "bad," well, ok; but how about if someone posts something in there which, while it uses profanity, is generally agreed to be "poetry" and people like it? under the current rules, that poem gets yanked ANYWAY, simply because "there is no home for that here." why not? the adult forums by their nature ought to be the home for that sort of thing. just a suggestion. btw: if anyone talks to ron anytime soon tell him i like the rewrite of the asterisk rules, but i'd still like to see a list of what exactly the word filter hunts down and destroys. at some point somewhere there HAS to be a list of "unacceptable" words, and what Ron thinks constitutes profanity doesn't necessarily agree with anyone else's definitions. it's much easier to abide by the rules of the house if you know what they are, and "use common sense" doesn't really help. the cartoon southpark, i think we'd all agree, is full of profanity - but how about beavis and butthead? that's borderline at best, but a whole lot of people think that show was hilarious - including my parents. it's a much better idea (in my book, anyway) to have a clearly defined line beyond which ~a blare of trumpets~ Thou Shalt Not Pass ~a blare of trumpets~ than to have a vague standard. if the rules are sufficiently vague that they can be questioned, other than to say "what are they" then you quickly get into the morass of garbage that comes out of, say, most insurance companies. "The party of the second part, referred to previously as the CUSTOMER, hereby agrees to make agreement with the party of the firt part, previously referred to as the AGENCY, such that no further liability shall appurtain to the party of the first part, nor shall any litigative action be brought against the party of the first part by the party of the second, once it shall be established that the party of the first part has validated the disputed item heretofore known as the CLAIM" OMG. please don't go there. this is ron's house, and a wonderful house it is, and we're all very very grateful for both the fourm and the work he puts into it, salaam, salaam, ~bangs forehead against the floor~ can we see a list of what's banned by the filter now please?  -Dave, whose signature is open to further discussion  |
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Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191Cape Cod Massachusetts USA |
ROTFLMAO...  Dave - There aren't very many words that are stopped by the filter - Honestly - and there's no need for any of us to go out of our way to talk to Ron about this - He reads every post in this forum...  Feel free to email him and ask, of course - Because he can't list them here - They'd be filtered out...  |
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NapalmsConstantlyConfused
since 2001-05-15
Posts 529 |
lmao. fair enough, and i will (when, of course, i'm NOT at work :P ) -Dave, who, today at least, is Just Some Faceless Corporate Drone |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
If Dave comes back to this, just to let him know that I am a fair-minded and even-handed individual... quote: I recently took yet another poem to the SM forum on what I perceived as a questionable post. It was on a word that is NOT bleeped out by the asterisks. And in a far-seen stretch of the word, it was "appropriate" for the poem, and allowed to stay. But that did not keep me from questioning its propriety. It's a tough world out there, Dave. Someone hands me enough you-know-what during the day, I tend to start giving it back, and that is truly not the sort of person I want to be, or how I want to react. So I would like to say "thank you" to Dave, for allowing me to do my job here at Passions, and for not giving me any flak over the decision. Now, get out there and write some wonderful poetry... [This message has been edited by Sunshine (edited 11-20-2001).] |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Nan's right, there are very few words on the censor list. Eight to be exact. For over a year there were only five, all beginning with the letter F. Two B words were latter added, not because they are unusually offensive, but just because they were becoming FAR too common in the forums. The final S word was similarly added because of frequency, and also in the seemingly vain hope writers might be able to come up with a more meaningful noun than a vulgarity that long ago lost all possible meaning beyond the literal. (I'm not even sure it should be considered a noun any longer; it's more like a pronoun, since it has come to take the place of virtually any other noun.) The list is short because software is stupid. Words that are appropriate in one context become simply vulgar in another. It takes a discerning human to recognize the difference. As you noted, Dave, if someone wants to describe a person's parentage, the correct word is bästard. But if someone wants to tell me a person is a jerk, the same word is offensive, probably inaccurate, and really little more than a cliché. Computer programs will probably never be smart enough to tell the difference. The software, as indicated, is a legacy of the original code, and one of the few parts that hasn't been changed in the past two years. It doesn't work well, but I don't think any automated solution ever will. Frankly, there are much more important things that need changing and it isn't real high on my priority list. Knowing which words are on the list shouldn't be necessary, nor should the list be construed as written in stone. Getting around the limitation is easy, as I did above, and it was never intended to stop someone from using a word. Rather, it should be considered an early warning system. If you make a post and see a word replaced with asterisks, it's time to use the Edit icon. It really shouldn't be much more complicated than that. |
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Allysa
since 1999-11-09
Posts 1952In an upside-down garden |
I want to applaud all of the moderators and people here at PIP who keep everyone in line and make this place a place for EVERYONE, not just certain people. Sometimes these people and their resons for doing the things they do seem to be forgotten. |
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bsquirrel
since 2000-01-03
Posts 7855 |
Heck, since this is being dragged up again, I'd like to inform you all that not EVERYONE in Nashua, NH is as rude as Whatever (unregistered). That's my hometown. Frankly, it's a little bit boring of a place, but it is beautiful. Too beautiful to waste time sending an unregistered complaint to a poetry forum. Mikey |
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