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Sweater
| Critical Analysis #1 |
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Sweater |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563
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sitting in darkness, awaiting the light, time crawls on its crippled knees. silent images flicker and fade, flicker and fade... as probing continues, painfully...incessantly. a sharp query pierces my ear, ushering in strings of confusion, tangling one thought with another, until knitting needles could transform them into a sweater, bearing all the variations, tinges, and textures of my mind. I could then don the creation, when I must see her, and never have to speak a word. Kristine Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season ~ T.S. Eliot |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Hey Grasshoppa: Long time no critique (seems that way, anyway and I apologize for that). I suppose it is my turn to ask you where YOU get your inspiration. Before I forget I want to mention a peculiar play on my mind as I was reading part of you poem. Everytime I try to read the "variations" line I see "vexations" in its place. I suspect this is a result of both (primarily) "textures" being immediately underneath it and (secondarily) the tone of your poem. This is a curious effect. Am I the only one experiencing this? I don't want to risk being wrong (you know how much I can't stand being wrong) so I am not going to try to piece together too much meaning out of this poem. Your wording evokes a certain pall in my mind. "Crawls on its crippled knees" ... geeze, Kris, where do you come up with this stuff? Excellent wording. Maybe I'm just tired but I can't piece much more together from this than discontentment, sorrow, and maybe a bit of anxiety. I look forward to the explanation. Thanks for the read. Jim |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Jimteach, I'm happy to see that I didn't make things TOO  obvious this time 'round...but it's easy.One hint...I am not the speaker... Thanks for reading, and for your comments.  Kris Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season ~ T.S. Eliot |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Poertree: your poem..... Crisco1avs: yes? Poertree: when I must see her, and never have to speak a word. this is an interesting bit Crisco1avs: yes? Poertree: is this something to do with a therapist or someone trying to unravel the tangled thoughts of a patient and make them whole again? Crisco1avs: on the right track Poertree: lol Poertree: hey just read Jims comments Poertree: he didnt try too hard did he ...lol Poertree: oh i've just see your hint Poertree: but i knew that straight away anyway .....lol Poertree: this is the patient speaking Crisco1avs: Promise not to tell yet, but a client once said, "I wish I could wear my thoughts on the outside...". that was my inspiration. Yes, a very reluctant patient, who didn't want to face his problems. Poertree: i wonder who the "her" is?? Poertree: you are the her Crisco1avs: Right! Poertree: yes i was right first time i think .lol this is a patient feeling the probing questions etc of the therapist Poertree: probably knowing she means well, but as you say reluctant to cooperate Crisco1avs: Wasn't so hard, huh, when you know my occupation... Poertree: probably feeling secure in his darkness Poertree: i think the very last two lines are difficult Poertree: and never have to speak a word Crisco1avs: Yes, depression and alcoholism, what we call dual-diagnosis. Why? Poertree: it is quite difficult to understand those lines .. the tendency is to ask WHY not speak? Once the patient has been healed why not speak? Poertree: but perhaps he is not "healed" ? Crisco1avs: How else could I have him saying that he wished he could wear the sweater, so he didn't have to answer any questions? He is NOT healed...that is why he is seeing me. Poertree: yes i see that but........ Crisco1avs: what? Poertree: until knitting needles could transform them into a sweater, bearing all the variations, tinges, and textures of my mind. Crisco1avs: yes? I respect your opinion, Philip. Poertree: that passage could be interpreted as the therapist knitting the patients thoughts into some semblance of order and therefore healing? Poertree: patient's (of course) Crisco1avs: I suppose, but as you read further, you see it is (he) that wants to do this and why Crisco1avs: And you've got to remember who the speaker is...that it's not me. Poertree: it is still a little obscure IMHO you could insert two words which would make it crystal clear Crisco1avs: Tell me... Poertree: (yes i remembered .....lol .. i have a bad memory but not that bad ..lol) Crisco1avs: I didn't mean to imply you did...lol Poertree: until “I WISH” knitting needles could transform them Poertree: well i do ......lol ... terrible Crisco1avs: ahhhh...yes, but would that make things too obvious, like in my last poem? Poertree: actually i don't think so .. because the real feat is realising firstly what the whole poem is about, then secondly who the speaker is, then who the "her" is .. after that the deatil is filled in and its the deatil which is maybe a little hazy ......? Poertree: detail even ....lol Crisco1avs: Philip...that wouldn't work...it says "tangling"...implying more mixed up, not straightening out or healing...so he doesn't have to say "I wish". Poertree: ummm ... lets see Poertree: yes but .. Poertree: lets take it a section at a time ...... Poertree: first he's sitting in darkness ok? Poertree: then probing etc .. as the therapist goes to work .ok? Poertree: ok so far? Crisco1avs: depression, therapist asking questions... Poertree: yes .. then the sharp query Poertree: which ushers in more confusion Crisco1avs: the one that hurts Crisco1avs: right Poertree: and more tangling etc Crisco1avs: uh-huh Poertree: so up to that point ie the word "another" the patient is getting worse if anything Poertree: not responding Crisco1avs: righto Poertree: ok? Poertree: good ...... then......... Poertree: there is a change Crisco1avs: how? Poertree: you use the word "UNTIL" Poertree: implying that there is confusion UNTIL something happens....... Crisco1avs: meaning the tangled thoughts are large enough Poertree: and the something that happens is that knitting needles transform Crisco1avs: The tangle of thoughts, I mean Crisco1avs: In his mind Crisco1avs: his thoughts Crisco1avs: about the needles Poertree: ok but still .. the implication is very strongly there that the knitting needles start to bring ordero ut of chaos Poertree: is that not right? Crisco1avs: I disagree...all it means is that he is imagining in his mind that a sweater could be knit from a jumble of thoughts, and then he would be spared the pain of speaking Crisco1avs: because all of his thoughts would be exposed Poertree: hummphhh well then I guess I must say still that the line "until knitting needles" is kinda misleading ... or potentially so Poertree: i understand what you are saying .. but how are we to know that this is all just in the patients mind as a kinda fantasy Crisco1avs: well, as I said, I do respect your opinion, and I'll examine it. Poertree: lol Crisco1avs: Because he is the speaker Poertree: yes i see that .. Poertree: i'm thinking........lol Crisco1avs: Oh no!!!! Crisco1avs: LOL Poertree: lol ... Poertree: well then back to my original point .. Crisco1avs: yes? Poertree: if it is just the speaker as it were fantasising then why.. Crisco1avs: Philip...you're aggravating me on purpose.... Poertree: should the words "i wish" cause a problem .. surely that's exactly what it is "a wish" a "dream" of the speakers that his thoughts could be woven into an external sweater Poertree: (hey i can't type that fast .. gimme a break..lol) Crisco1avs: Well, tht's obvious that he's thinking that without I wish Poertree: but your point is that its too obvious..... Poertree: yes .. ok ... I give up ...lol Crisco1avs: Good!!!!!!!!!!! Poertree: LOL Poertree: I had a brilliant idea Crisco1avs: What? Poertree: a first for CA ......lol Crisco1avs: Well.......? Poertree: why don't I copy this conversation into your poem as my reply ......lol Crisco1avs: HUGE, GIGANTIC LOL Poertree: hey don't you think that would be quite novel .. real live discussion of a poem for our esteemed moderators |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Philip, Thank you so much for the stimulating conversation on this piece. Next time it'll be one of yours... Kris Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season ~ T.S. Eliot |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Kris: You gave me one measly hint and you gave Philip an interview!  I'm hurt, Grasshoppa. I'll come back to this later. The conversation was interesting but I could do without the talking behind my back, Philip. Humph! Jim |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Jim, Don't be angry...it's not my fault Philip can IM me (I enjoy the chats, Philip ), and besides, this was ALL his idea...I just went along for the ride (it was fun ).Grasshoppa Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season ~ T.S. Eliot |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Hey FOUL FOUL I didn't need the interview .. I more or less had the poem from the start ... Tell him Kris ......My poems won't bear that sort of dissection Kristine !! Philip |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
It is true, Jim, Philip picked up on it immediately... Philip....Oh, yeah?????!!!!!!!! Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season ~ T.S. Eliot |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Geez, what has Philip been smoking?  Well, Kris, this one pretty well has me scratching my head too. Like Jim, I read a general feeling of discontent (thanks for the help here JB) but I'm pretty much confused by the last 3 lines. You do have an interesting mix of words. But that is something you are always good at. But wait. A flashbulb just went off somewhere. Must mean a clearer perception is coming. Nope. Sorry, just a flashbulb in the background. I eagerly anticipate further clarification. Pete What terms shall I find sufficiently simple in their sublimity -- sufficiently sublime in their simplicity -- for the mere enunciation of my theme? Edgar Allan Poe |
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jenni Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478Washington D.C. |
kris-- i really liked this one! i didn't see "until" as a problem like philip did; i read it as saying the tangled "strings" grew so much until one could almost use knitting needles on them. i really loved that image there, by the way, very nicely done. from the lines "sitting in darkness, awaiting the light", "confusion", and the probing, incessant questions, i kinda guessed it was about a patient talking to a psychologist, and kudos for not making it obvious, lol. but you know what else flashed through my mind? you might get a kick out of this: sitting in darkness, awaiting the light, time crawls on its crippled knees driving my grandmother home from my parents' house years ago, waiting to make a left turn to go up her hill, the LONGEST traffic light in my old hometown. silent images flicker and fade, flicker and fade... the turn signal blinking on and off, on and off, and all sorts of thoughts flashing through my head, unable to say a word because my grandmother is deluging me with questions and criticisms, lol... as probing continues, painfully...incessantly. "why don't you wear your hair like your sister's? why don't you dress nice like the other girls? why did you move all the way to warshington? you really like living in that rat race? are you still seeing that fellow? what was his name?"... and not waiting for any answers... a sharp query pierces my ear, "when are you going to get married?" ushering in strings of confusion, tangling one thought with another, how can you talk to someone who cares, but won't ever pause for a moment to listen? until knitting needles could transform them into a sweater, bearing all the variations, tinges, and textures of my mind. I could then don the creation, when I must see her, and never have to speak a word. how much easier it would be if i could simply put on a sweater -- something she could probably relate to better, anyway --that would make her understand me. trying to have a regular conversation with my grandmother used to be the very definition of "frustration," lol. anyway, lol, like it's been said out here many a time, a reader brings her own interpretations to a piece, right? thanks for a great read. jenni |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
Jenni this was the most hysterically funny reply I've ever seen from you .. I laughed so much I could almost forgive you for not agreeing with me about "until" ..... and y'know Kris now i come to think on it there was this time in a run down bar with a mate from school when >>>>> lol Perhaps this poem means more than you realised when you wrote it |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Jenni, Thank goodness!!!! You got it exactly right about the "until", and the rest of the meaning. You're also so very right about it fitting a myriad of situations.....like being with your grandmother. Thank you so much for reading, and for your comments. I, unlike our British friend, did not find them hysterical. I appreciated them. Philip, You're just upset because Jenni agrees with me...... Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season ~ T.S. Eliot |
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Poertree Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359UK |
what was it all men are meant to say at this point .........?? "HUH" |
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captaincargo Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109Corning, N.Y. U.S.A. |
First I would like to thank jenni for explaining this to me. Without her I would never have gotten started on the meaning of this piece. warmhrt: I'm sorry that I am so thick. Now that my eyes have been opened this is simply marvelous. But I would have never gotten it in a million years. Once again I must bow to the wisdom of my Lit Prof., when he said, "Mr. "******" Forget poetry, you are just too one dimensional. You had best stick to prose, where you might have a 'chance' at being coherant." We used to have some 'epic' arguments. Cap. Now, everyone that believes in telekinesis, raise my hand. Cap. Carg. |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Cap, LOL ... love your own quote! Thanks, for reading, and I'm sorry if this seemed so obscure, but I had been told I was being too obvious in other works. Thought I'd try my hand at a more layered piece. I'm glad you liked it after you were enlightened. Again, Cap, thank-you. Kristine< !signature--> ther'es a hell of a good universe next door;lets go ~ e. e. cummings [This message has been edited by warmhrt (edited 02-17-2000).] |
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Ted Reynolds Member
since 1999-12-15
Posts 331 |
I thought this was quite clear and coherent and even perspicacious (so there,) with my only major nit (or can a mere nit be major?) being that all the concepts that the rest of the poem interweaves only start with the ninth line. Until then there isn't a clue as to what this particular poem's going to be about. Personally I'd use the first eight lines in *another* poem, and add a new couple of lines to begin *this* one. |
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captaincargo Member
since 1999-11-25
Posts 109Corning, N.Y. U.S.A. |
Hey Ted I'm tryin! Besides, Major Nit picked up some bad habits and was courtmartialed. Cap. Carg. |
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Songbird Member Elite
since 1999-12-15
Posts 2184Missouri |
I really like this piece I think the clue to the what you are reading about is the probeing, which I associate with the probe of a therapist, who helps stir up the emotions to help the patient be able to feel them and reexamine them, sometime stirring up a hornet's nest, but in the end results are coming to a better conclusion, seeing the light and coming up with the a wearable garment the sweater, the therapist has helped. Interesting piece or work. I admire you for the kind of work you do, can't be easy. |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Ted, An afghan would probably be a major knit, but yours is similar to the poem's title. I disagee with you about the first eight lines...they set the stage, so to speak, and get's the reader wondering, then it all starts to fall into place....I hope. Thanks for reading and commenting, Ted. Cap, Major LOL!!!!!!! Septsong, Thanks for your kind comments. In the poem, however, the subject wishes he could wear the sweater (his feelings, thoughts, emotions) so that the therapist could just look at him, and get all her answers. He would then not have to speak a word, and could avoid the discomfort of facing certain issues. All "work" is difficult at times. Mine is extremely rewarding, and I am blessed to be able to do something that I truly love to do. Thanks again for your comments, Kristine there's a hell of a good universe next door;lets go ~ e. e. cummings |
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