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"Miss Jean Louise, Stand Up, Your Father's Passin'."

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JenniferMaxwell
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0 posted 09-28-2008 12:02 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7226200
JenniferMaxwell
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1 posted 09-29-2008 05:22 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/muslim-children-gassed-at_b_130076.html
SEA
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2 posted 09-29-2008 08:49 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

what's your point? That you are voting for Obama? Good for you. I'm not. Good for me....blah blah blah....

those links are pointless. There is no proof. Only opinions. Just like this post from me. It's my opinion. whatever.
Not A Poet
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3 posted 09-29-2008 10:39 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

But SEA, both those links are to such reliable, unbiased sources
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4 posted 09-29-2008 11:34 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA



hey she found it on the internet, it has to be true
Grinch
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5 posted 09-29-2008 02:37 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

I read the source article on the internet regarding the Muslims affected by the chemical irritant. I have to admit that I believe it, is there any evidence that it didn't happen?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/new  s/local/2008/09/27/ddn092608evacweb.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=16
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6 posted 09-29-2008 03:56 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

You know what is REALLY irritating about these kind of link-only-and-runs:  they almost always repeat 'Assumptive Logic' non sequiturs.  In other words, you take an incident: find a hated partisan person, find an assumptive weapon, tie the two together and VOILA!  you have a verdict that McCain, Bush and DVD documentary CAUSED this tragedy.

Never mind, there is not one fact that links the above culprits with the alleged crime. Oh, by the way:  the same source, The Dayton Daily News says (2 days later on followup):
"HAZMAT officials reported to the fire department that "they had checked the structure for pepper spray, but nothing was detected," Strukamp said.

"So far there is no indication that the incident was the result of a hate crime, according to Dayton police.""

Welcome to the type of logic that has made Keith Olbermann and Huffington heroes to those who subscribe to non sequitur (non-linear) logic.  
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7 posted 09-29-2008 05:28 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
You know what is REALLY irritating


2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile?

JenniferMaxwell
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8 posted 09-29-2008 05:32 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ba6_1222704801
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9 posted 09-29-2008 07:22 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Hi, Grinch, and I checked out your link.  I agree the chemical was probably something akin to this.  And, the occurence was probably a hate crime.  

  However, the DVD and McCain references, mentioned over 10 times in the article, have no link at all with the crime.  These blog 'exposes' are composed like this constantly on both sides of the spectrum, and it shows a lack of conclusive thought, but no shortage of imagination.  It was sort of interesting since the video link intimated that the perp's were 'two black men' and that suprised me.  I thought most muslims and blacks lived harmoniously.  Is there some hatred there that I've missed over the years?  Or are the perps simply misidentified?  I would have thought the hate mongers would have been some devoted right-ers.  This even further dissuades me that the attack had anything to do with conservatism since black folk are seldom conservatives, and the two perps are allegedly black.  Go figure.  
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10 posted 09-29-2008 08:10 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Threadbear,

The link I posted didnít have any reference to the political leanings of the attackers, it was the original story before people started speculating about any possible political motive.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/new s/local/2008/09/27/ddn092608evacweb.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=16

Personally I donít think it serves any purpose to speculate on motives with so little evidence, it could just have easily have been a kids prank gone wrong as a race related attack. Promoting one above the other just makes the situation more tense in my view and could even incite a retaliatory and unnecessary backlash.
JenniferMaxwell
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11 posted 09-29-2008 08:25 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"This even further dissuades me that the attack had anything to do with conservatism since black folk are seldom conservatives, and the two perps are allegedly black.  Go figure."

I didn't go figure, but Pew did and about 20% of "black folk" identify with the "Religious Right". One out of five puts it quite a bit above "seldom", don't you think?

Why would Clarion send out free anti-Muslim hate-mongering DVD's by the millions in just the battleground states if there's no connection to any particular candidate? It has to be costing them a bundle and it's sure not something that would get Obama's stamp of approval.

And the connection between Clarion and CSR?
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck through downtown Scottsdale...
JenniferMaxwell
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12 posted 09-29-2008 08:28 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

What needs to stop being promoted, Grinch, is the distribution of that hate mongering DVD. And a new one is due out in just a couple of weeks - fanning the flames of hatred even higher.
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13 posted 09-30-2008 01:13 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

"and it's sure not something that would get Obama's stamp of approval"

How. How could you possibly know that?! You are assuming. Why could it not have been his team? If you can blame one, why not the other? Don't you see how that could gain him sympathy votes? How pathetic...
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14 posted 09-30-2008 08:12 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

no, that isn't what I said. I said, he could have been behind the attack the same as McCain, for the same reason, votes. It's just a different spin, you have your spin, I have mine...

Whatever dude. good luck with this.
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15 posted 09-30-2008 08:40 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

moonbeam
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16 posted 09-30-2008 09:11 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Jenn "dude", lol, add funny and clever to your list of attributes.

.....

SEA and threadbear, seein' as you're so fond of links, a handy lil' one for you to carry around:
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001698-11.html#263

JenniferMaxwell
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17 posted 09-30-2008 11:50 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


OMG, did I say "boorish" again?
moonbeam
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18 posted 09-30-2008 02:13 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

One for Ms Palin!





Grinch
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19 posted 09-30-2008 02:13 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
What needs to stop being promoted, Grinch, is the distribution of that hate mongering DVD. And a new one is due out in just a couple of weeks - fanning the flames of hatred even higher.



I havenít seen the DVD, Iíve seen a couple of trailers and read several articles both for and against. My gut feeling though is that the world would be a better place without it.

JenniferMaxwell
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20 posted 09-30-2008 02:37 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


lol @ Moonbeam. Now that's Boorish!
JenniferMaxwell
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21 posted 09-30-2008 02:46 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

This is the second time the DVD has been distributed in mass quantities, Grinch. The first time was just before the 2006 elections. Don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which political party's bank rolling the project. Terror, terror, terror! Threat level orange! Grab your duct tape and plastic and vote for the suspended/unsuspended/suspended maybe again, drama queen McSame McCain! He knows how to catch Bin Laden, but he's not telling unless he's elected. So there! lol

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22 posted 09-30-2008 09:00 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Folks,

          In looking over this threadóI've been out of town for a few days, and haven't been in touchóI was interested in areas of agreement that nobody seemed to mention.  That there was such a DVD, people seemed to accept out of hand.  I find I do as well, to my deep disappointment.  That it was an attack on Radical Islam, nobody seems to debate.  Perhaps somebody tells us that the government had nothing to do with the production of the video.  If somebody did say so, I tender an apology for missing their statement.  Otherwise, it seems that folks are ready to accept this as likely.  I find it likely as well, and I am saddened by my own readiness to believe not that the government would put out a propaganda piece against radical Islam, but that it should be so wide of the mark that people would use it as an excuse to attack ordinary worshipers on an important religious holiday.  

     Those of you who did not grow up in Ohio, may not be aware of the history of  anti-Catholic and Anti-Jewish and anti-Black sentiment there that goes way back, certainly as far as the Civil war.  I heard stories of Klan rallies with very large turnouts in the twenties and thirties.  That there would be a ready basis for anti-Muslim feeling comes as no particular surprise.  Nor am I surprised at the level of hatred stirred up by the election in general.

     I don't care who is responsible for the distribution of the DVD.  As far as I'm concerned it could be the girl scouts.  I suggest that for any of us to try to fix blame is an exercise in divisiveness.  

     If people actually are interested in doing more than making fun of the need for accurate information, why not look for some.  While I happen to enjoy the Huffington Post, I don't believe that many people here believe its information is neutral.  There may be information in The Christian Science Monitor, The Economist, The Washington Post, and the New York Times.  Most folks are willing to take them for straight information once they are reminded that these papers have made errors on both sides of the political spectrum in an even handed sort of way.  

     I don't think that what I'm saying is too outrageous for consideration by either left or right, if we are willing to think about what we want for the good of the country instead of what we want in terms of what we want for our own party.  Even wild leftist long-hair (if only I had as much) hippos like myself can listen to reason of a limited sort if I'm being treated decently in the process, especially if the reason comes in a non-provocative package, and with appropriate references.

     Just out of curiosity, how does a DVD on Radical Islam proport to help the election process at this point anyway?  I wasn't able to figure that out from what I saw of the thread.

Best wishes to everybody,  Bob Kaven
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23 posted 09-30-2008 09:15 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Just out of curiosity, how does a DVD on Radical Islam proport to help the election process at this point anyway?"

I'm not sure that it does, Bob. I'm more inclined to think the right wing hate mongers distributing the DVD have seriously misjudged what will sway voters in this election.


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24 posted 10-04-2008 07:37 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors

 
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