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If we were to get another choice...
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If we were to get another choice... |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart 
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If we were to get another choice, who would you truly want to see headed for the top of the heap as the next President? And no, you cannot pick from the current four contenders.  State your nominee's values, plans, background, and why s/he would be the best pick. I mean, after all, so many of you don't like one or the other, so who WOULD you like to see on the ticket? " It matters not this distance now " Excerpt, Yesterday's Love |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. Colin Powell in a heartbeat. Vast experience as a leader and statesman including in hard times. Steady judgment, and an American above and before anything else. . |
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Mysteria 
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
I agree 100% with Colin Powell as a choice, but then again, I can't vote darn it. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I quite like Powell, too, Huan. My only problem with him has to do with his UN presentations in the run up to the Iraq war. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Jenn? I'd forgive him that. I'd vote for Powell. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
I think I know what you mean, Karen, and I do appreciate and respect your point of view. Powell was mislead (and used) by the Bush administration as were the American people. But when you look at the numbers of our troops killed in the war 4177 and the number grievously wounded something like 30,000 it’s hard for me to forget his part in advocating for the war. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
nodding here understood Things are just so bleak? It's like, when the bar has been lowered so far down, do you limbo a little lower or just step over it? sigh... it's all woulda coulda shoulda now. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Getting back onto the plate of the discussion, I heard Mr. Powell speak in our own town, and I was very impressed. Far more impressed in the fact that he took on "all factions" and "all impressions". He is a true American. He seemingly doesn't lay blame at anyone's foot; he stands on his own. So, if not Colin, then, who else might whet your appetite as a true leader? |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Who whets yours, Sunshine? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
There are several, Jennifer. My first choice would be a home-state gentleman who hasn't even yet considered the choice, but always listens to his people. He has one of the largest districts in his home state, and travels them with zeal, and to date, has not let "me" down, nor most of the others of this state. I think that's why he's still where he is, because he cares to do well. There's another young man in this particular state that needs a while to grow, but I am still counting on him to be a contender in a few years. Another choice would be a gentleman who will never be President, but as yet, has done as good a job as he can, politically. And he currently resides in my home state. There are so many fine, qualified people out there, Jennifer, that we need to start looking upon the good things that people can bring to our government. No one will ever be perfect [and that's why I'll never run for any office! - It was bad enough being a state president of a legal profession that I decided I was too human and kind to do it again!]As this is my question, then, I will leave it to the others to choose. I know who I want on my wish list. With my quiet approval of knowing some of them first and up personal, we'll see where they go. It is a democracy, after all. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Ah, I see, this is like a secret Santa thing for you, Sunshine. What fun! But how can we possibly help deliver on your wish list if you’re not telling who’s on it? We PiP elves really want to know. Anyway, there were two others on my secret wish list, one a Republican and the other a Democrat. Not my top choices, but choices I could have lived with, I think. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Very good, Jennifer. Being public without criticism, but actual commentary is a good thing. Although, and this is my challenge: you need to find GOOD things to discuss about them from the get go! God knows that Bad Things rise like raw sewage. Are you willing to find good things about a person's history first? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
You are right, Sunshine. There are many good, decent, qualified people out there who would handle the job quite admirably. Unfortunately we will never know them. I deal with condo associations a lot. Every tenant hates their condo association president. Why? Decent people don't want the job and so, by default, it goes to the indecent ones, the ones who want the power, want the iron fist, wants the position and the perks that come along with it. I would imagine that Washington is much worse. Who would want to put themselves through it? Why do multi-millionaires want so much to have a 100 or 200 grand annual paycheck? Why do so many new congressmen go to Washington swearing to make a good difference and are never seen again? Who would want to subject themselves to the constant fighting between political parties, the scrutiny of having every decision graded by the public and ripped apart by the media, if unpopular? Who would want every second of their life put under a microscope? Look at all of the scandals by congressmen and even the presidency. What sane and decent person would want to go into that arena? Our top political leaders are in it for the power and prestige. There may have been a time that we were blessed with presidents who did have the interest of the country as their highest priority but we certainly don't have it now and I doubt we ever will again. The old adage of "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is proven by our Congress time after time. Be glad your "decent" choices stay there with you. You're lucky to have them. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
I'm not named "Sunshine" by my father for only loving reasons, Mike. I do see that we can Get Over It...if we all got back to seeing reason and possibilities. We do need the people that I can see in Power, and them not being occluded by its luster; however, the problem is bigger than our own Nation. And therein lies the problem. Has anyone ever read, "Captain and the Kings"? [Taylor Caldwell] Are we so many generations past the need to do for our families that we cannot think past what our government "should do" for us? What truly democratic government has ever done for their people [and yes, I AM being naive here] that we cannot possibly do for ourselves? I am sick and tired of listening to the argument of folk who take for granted their blessings. Maybe it is because I'm getting to the age that I was blessed with some generational education: this is how you raise a chick; this is how you kill a chicken; this is how you cook the chicken. I can do this. I can also know measurements and recipes and do not need a microwave to feed my future. But I also admire the folk that bring all of this education that we brought to ourselves and in our government the kindness that we can talk across the nation...at some other person's whim. [Thank you, Ron!] Now, people, please believe me, I'm not a true rebel-rabble-rouser but I AM a person who would like to hit some of you up side the head and say, "WHO do you TRULY believe can run this country?" Instead of running it down, let's try to truly RUN IT UP the flagpole! My choices from Kansas would be Jerry Moran, because he truly tries; and Josh Svaty, because he is a young man with a bright future; and from my own home state, and if we could, I would even go along with Arnold. BECAUSE, people, they are TRYING to make a difference. Are you doing that much? |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
How can you assign motives to a people you don't even know, Balladeer? Rather presumptuous, don't you think? I don't particularly look for either the bad or the good, Sunshine. I read a lot, try to verify info before I make a decision. For instance, I knew nothing about McCain's personal history, but after I read his bio and came across his admitting to having committed adultery on more than one occasion and leaving his wife and children who spent five and a half years waiting and praying for his safe return, well, honestly, that's not the type of man I want to see in the Oval Office. Certainly not a good role model. Had he been a young man, perhaps his behavior could have been excused as a youthful indiscretion, but he was 42, married to his first wife when he started sleeping with Cindy. We still hear about Clinton's infidelity, but McCain's is hardly ever mentioned. I wonder why that is. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Jennifer, I wonder, too. But I'm old enough to know that we who don't live in glass houses have a reason; perhaps it is called growing up. I don't know. All I do know is that a reason for remaining in the limelight is that there is a certain knowledge that all you've done IS going to be precedent in the world's view. That alone takes a certain strength of character. Perhaps Mr. McCain's choice is that he has endured more characterization that any of us will ever know; and that the wife he returned to was not the same as the one he left. I don't know, Jennifer, as I haven't delved into her past. And I don't want to. All I know, personally, is someone close and nearby who went to Viet Nam, came home to someone he thought he knew, and ended up a changed man. And I am his second wife. Maybe, Jennifer, McCain was very kind to his first wife, even more kind than we might want to judge. |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy |
Hey Sunshine: My choice 8 years ago would have been William F. Buckley. They just don't make articulate men like that any more. Since he sadly passed away this year, my second choice would be Richard Lugar. He is also a maverick and makes the right decisions. He is the Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and is probably one of the top three most admired congressmen from nations abroad. He is a Rhodes Scholar (as was Bill Clinton, and that horrible Rachel Maddow. Can you believe she's a Rhodes scholar?) Lugar was fairly blunt on Iraq, but he was only one of a handful that had a workable solution. Outside of Lugar, Bob Barr (Libertarian) has captured my interest since he despises party-politics almost as much as I do! He also believes in adherence to Civil Liberties while not directly advocating support for the ACLU. Do a Wikipedia search on him, and you'll see how he spans both sides of the fence, which is what we need right now. A Cross-the-Aisles kind of guy. However, he just doesn't look 'Presidential.' At all. I think General Patreus would make a good candidate in the same mold as Colin Powell. But then, I like strong political figures. My heroes are Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. (I want to briefly mention, that as an undeclared party voter, I am prohibited from casting votes in Primaries in my home state. Since I can't vote, I've learned the value of submitting the right commentary at the right time to the right people in order to add some input to the Primaries. It ain't much, but it's all the 'power' this state will allow under current voting laws.  [This message has been edited by threadbear (10-03-2008 11:13 PM).] |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Well, Sunshine, I'm afraid that there's no way you could ever convince me that committing adultery and publicly embarrassing your wife and children is a kindness. And, to my way of thinking, it's certainly not the way a Christian man would behave especially when his wife was still battling to recover from a horrific accident that nearly took her life. |
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threadbear Senior Member
since 2008-07-10
Posts 817Indy |
For once, Jennifer, I have to agree with you. It WAS despicable of McCain to have had an affair while his wife was in remission. This very scenario of lothario was played out by Rudy Guliani and he was ostracized right out of his Presidential bid due to it. I have to say, I'm a little suprised that this character issue with McCain hasn't come up in negative ads more. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Threadbear, I think Buckley might have made a fine choice. I was always interested in him; but he always seemed so UE! Which is quite all right, he just had such restricted ways! quote: Jen, if I may call you that [people are always shortening my name, too...] believe it or not, I agree. But Clinton, a Dem, did worse in public office, didn't he? He not only embarrassed his wife, and child, but did so in office. WHILE in office, I would so very much like for people to behave. What they did so before in quite so publicly an office, well, I guess there are just too many glass houses out there to start throwing stones at, and be allowed to live through. I do understand your morality clause; I truly do. Given that and given the facts that I don't know your [1] age; [2] ethnic group; [3] experience in voting; [4] or any other status of your life, I will simply have to say, thank you so much for participating in your own unique way. And before you say it, the answer is Yes, I do try to look into the ways we can all work Together; I do try to look at undermining the corruption that I believed truly rules most of the world; and aside from what a lot of people might have said a few years ago, I truly do NOT hide my head in the sand. Thanks for participating! [This message has been edited by Sunshine (10-05-2008 06:21 PM).] |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
. "our troops killed in the war 4177 and the number grievously wounded something like 30,000 it’s hard for me to forget his part in advocating for the war." No American soldier wants to die but if he must all he asks is that it be in a good cause. Saddam Hussein was a monster who did things to innocent men, women and children we don't want to imagine. Those we've lost did not die in vain. They died doing good. . |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Saddam killed innocent people and so did our troops on Bush's orders. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Your post puzzles me a bit, Sunshine. Are you giving McCain a pass on committing adultery because Clinton did it too? That sounds like one of those “he started it first” defenses children so often use. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
No, Jenn; I am not giving either men a "pass"; but if you research the times and the thought processes, you would realize a different zone, indeed. The question is now, would he do it again? Probably not. Jenn, I'm not out to teach you, but only to suggest that not all marriages were "meant to be" and while the first Mrs. McCain did not declare her husband deceased, she truly had much to live for. As I said before, I have not delved into their personal history, for it is just that. Between a man and woman, a life should remain personal. I'm always appalled at the media who would take that time and make it highly public. The problem is, is that we have come to expect such a scenario. Do you TRULY want to know about Jennifer Lopez's private life? Maybe, as one who writes, I believe that I might write, and still keep a good source of my life "private". But even in 2005, Dan Brown admitted that he couldn't do that, once he became a "public figure". Much to his distress. Jenn, when you've published any sort of a book, novel, anthology, etc., let me know how you feel being in the limelight. But then again, I don't know much about you; probably you've already been there. People want to learn more about their political and/or public figures, yes, I know; but still, their actions BEFORE their race or choices, is that really important? Yes, sometimes it is, because what they say could make a difference; AND, if you say yes, then beware: because then ALL of the "stuff" they've bagged in their lifetime will be made public. Sometime, Jennifer, I think we're really on the same page but I can see where we differ, as well. Peace. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Would he do it again? I don’t have a clue. He may be 72 but there’s always viagra and he does have a history of repeating his mistakes.. I can definitely understand that people change and sometimes it’s best if partners go their separate ways. But the way to end a marriage, especially if there are children involved, isn’t by having numerous affairs and applying for a marriage license with your soon to be second wife, before you’ve even divorced wife number one. What happens between a husband and wife should be a private thing. Unfortunately McCain didn’t see it that way and spoke about his affairs and marital problems in his autobiography. He opened his private life up to public scrutiny, put himself in the limelight, first by making his adultery common knowledge with his numerous flagrant affairs and then by running for the Presidency where character is every bit as important as knowledge and experience. I think behavior is a good indication of character. His numerous affairs, both before and after his marriage, his ethics violations, tax fraud, gambling addiction, his often out of control temper and belligerent attitude, clearly indicate to me McCain has some pretty serious character flaws. More than I want to see in our next President. |
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WTBAKELAR
since 2008-09-09
Posts 1089Utah, USA |
Would he do it again, My feelings are the same, going in a different way, DRUGS Would Obama do it again? He admitted he did them, He enjoyed them. Is he clean now? He has plenty of sources in Chicago. If you are going to look at the past, look at it with your eyes open. Both directions, if not, you run the risk of getting blindsided. The answer is always NO, Until the question is asked. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
quote: Exactly! |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: Without wishing to sound trite Karilea, I might point out that Ms Lopez is not running for the position of "leader of the free world". ~cough, splutter~ I agree with you about the intrusiveness of the media into private lives, fed, regrettably, by the insatiable voyeurism of the intellectually and/or morally bankrupt. There is however at least one occasion where such intrusiveness is not only justified imo, but actually necessary. That is where one person is asking a nation/state/whatever to give him/her powers that will determine millions of lives. The more power he/she wields the more I think every aspect of his/her previous life should be put under scrutiny. I think that's what you meant? I am never quite sure what you are saying Karilea because you kinda skip around posing questions, then knocking your own suggestions down, then building them up again - asking who people want as President, then being coy when asked yourself! So, I think I've interpreted what you said correctly, but if I haven't, I'm sorry. |
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JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Yep, Obama mentioned experimenting with drugs in HS and college in his book Dreams from My Father, which, btw, is an amazing read you shouldn’t miss. I wonder why the topic is not more of an issue, you hardly ever see it mentioned. Perhaps because he was young and youthful indiscretions are more often forgiven that middle age philandering? Or could it be that compared to Bush’s drug use, 20 plus years of heavy alcohol use, his admitted marijuana use and suspected cocaine use, it hardly seems worth mentioning? |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
See Response #9, Moonbeam. |
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